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Severed Hand of Skywalker · Feb 17, 2005, 12:17 PM

"I'm not lighting up any birthday candles for the four-month anniversary of Apple's mini-stores, since the stores have hardly lived up to the hype or promises that were made when they opened last October. The stores seem to have been hastily rolled out, are expensive to build, have nearly-useless point-of-sale machines, and suffer from a sterile design."

http://www.ifoapplestore.com/rants/rant11.html

Xeo · Feb 17, 2005, 12:25 PM

Rant indeed. The guy is complaining over how things might be and how they aren't necessarily cheaper. That doesn't make a lot of sense. If he doesn't know how much they cost to build or rent, then it's not worth even worrying about it. It's all speculation. Besides, you know it's cheaper in employee cost and utility cost.

But, I'm sure we'll all hear how great they are doing at the next keynote. If we don't, then it's safe to assume they'll be quietly shut down.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Feb 17, 2005, 12:30 PM

I have to agree with him on the look of the store though. I mean it looks like some natural skin cream shop. They don't seem to have anything in there but a couple iMac's and iPods. No G5's or large displays. I also can't see the point of putting them that close to a large Apple store.

ort888 · Feb 17, 2005, 12:50 PM

I have yet to visit the St. Louis Mini Store. I should go check it out I suppose.

Superchicken · Feb 17, 2005, 02:23 PM

Who was sleeping at Apple Retail? The idea isn't bad in and of itself. But having a big open space in the middle is not a good idea, you want to make your store look as if there is something to buy. Not an add for how creative your company is. Wide open spaces are fine, ENORMOUSLY NON STANDARD SPACEs are very bad.

demograph68 · Feb 17, 2005, 02:55 PM

I hate the lighting... if I don't have my heavy duty welder mask on hand, forget it.

effgee · Feb 17, 2005, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by Superchicken:
... having a big open space in the middle is not a good idea, you want to make your store look as if there is something to buy. Not an add for how creative your company is.

Have you considered the possibility that this might actually be a part of the business strategy (maybe even the primary strategic goal) for the mini stores - branding, not only sales?

Whoever walks past that mini-store will get a similar impression to when (s)he walks past an expensive boutique - stylish, high-end, yada yada ...

Maybe they serve that exact purpose - where the strategy in any regular store will obviously be "1. revenue", "2. branding", the purpose of the mini stores might just be reversed - branding first.

And if you think about the cost that comes with a traditional marketing campaign involving TV, print, outdoor ads, whatever - it might just make sense. Especially considering the fact that the target audience comes to the advertisement (= store) and that it is a permanent "installation", not not just a temporary campaign.

I guess what I'm trying to say is - unless the dude who wrote that "article" has a real insight into the underlying business strategy, he might just as well be pissing in the wind.

If he's lucky, the wind'll come from behind - if it doesn't, well ...

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Feb 17, 2005, 02:57 PM

I'm sorry but this store looks like a total visual bore. If I walked by it I don't think I would even notice as it looks like someone is just moving out.

effgee · Feb 17, 2005, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
... as it looks like someone is just moving out.

LOL - it is of course a question of personal taste. I like the minimalist style, but that's just me. Anyway, my point was that unless the dude knows something we don't (and I somehow doubt he does), his "article" - in my very own and personal book - qualifies as little more than the usual "this-company-is-hip-so-I-gotta-go-bash'em" kind of traffic-whoring.

Kenneth · Feb 17, 2005, 03:11 PM

I was at the grand opening of the Southcenter mini-store. It's not the closest Apple Store for me, so I been there only once (aka the opening day).

I don't know what's the traffic now, but I rather shop at a full-blown Apple Store.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Feb 17, 2005, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by effgee:
LOL - it is of course a question of personal taste. I like the minimalist style, but that's just me.

I LOVE minimalist style but this one is not working. They are just catering to people who already know they want an Apple product, they won't draw anyone new in that is for sure.

The Apple stores are minimalist but they are awesome.

effgee · Feb 17, 2005, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
I LOVE minimalist style but this one is not working. They are just catering to people who already know they want an Apple product, they won't draw anyone new in that is for sure. The Apple stores are minimalist but they are awesome.

Dunno, I've never seen one - you might very well be right. Do they all look identical?

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Feb 17, 2005, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by effgee:
Dunno, I've never seen one - you might very well be right. Do they all look identical?

The large Apple stores do not all look the same but they are close, the outsides are almost always different.

effgee · Feb 17, 2005, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
The large Apple stores do not all look the same but they are close, the outsides are almost always different.

Well, I guess we gotta wait for SJ's input, then. Someone get him on the horn and find out what this is all about. Pronto!

juanvaldes · Feb 17, 2005, 03:51 PM

What?

It's just like the "larger" stores but a few less computers setup, no genius bar or seats for the theater (still have a plasma tv behind cashers). When I was at the Stanford store it was quite busy, of course every store there was busy as it was a few days before XMas.

I don't see the point for this rant at all.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Feb 17, 2005, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
]When I was at the Stanford store it was quite busy, of course every store there was busy as it was a few days before XMas.

I don't see the point for this rant at all.

I think you just answered your own question.

Wiskedjak · Feb 17, 2005, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by effgee:
LOL - it is of course a question of personal taste. I like the minimalist style, but that's just me. Anyway, my point was that unless the dude knows something we don't (and I somehow doubt he does), his "article" - in my very own and personal book - qualifies as little more than the usual "this-company-is-hip-so-I-gotta-go-bash'em" kind of traffic-whoring.

That mini-store is minimalist boardering on nothingist

Wiskedjak · Feb 17, 2005, 04:09 PM

They look a little cramped

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Feb 17, 2005, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
They look a little cramped

That is the least of their problems, some of them have no faces!

Apple Pro Underwear · Feb 17, 2005, 04:30 PM

a superbowl ad costs 500,000

having these mini stores open is a step to switching ordinary folk by having them peep the wares under apple's influence (sdf)

pure sales may not be the main point of it

sworthy · Feb 17, 2005, 05:30 PM

The nearest Apple store is a mini one (Southcenter) and I actually don't mind it. Every-time I'm there they need the space because all of the people milling about. I'm not sure of a better layout for such a small space.

Superchicken · Feb 17, 2005, 07:48 PM

I'm sorry but having wide open spaces and nobody in your store = NOT GOOD ADVERTISING. That sands the message that there are no Apple fans, your stores are not going to be packed 24/7, so there needs to be something in there to fill it up. Besides how often are people going to be packed in the middle of a store if there's nothing there? Centre displays are important.

Disgruntled Head of C-3PO · Mar 5, 2005, 01:47 PM

As for the mini-stores that Apple introduced in Oct. 2004, no future stores are in the pipeline, apparently due to dissatisfaction among Apple executives with the design and materials. The stores' stainless steel siding is expensive to manufacture and import from Japan. The epoxy flooring, which replaced the original carpeting just before the stores debuted, has suffered through two rounds of structural problems, expensive repairs and replacements. The custom-built point-of-sale terminals, intended to allow customers to process their own credit card purchases, have never operated as designed.

Even the lighting at the mini-stores is an issue: the one-piece, back-lit ceiling is tough on the eyes, especially for employees who spend eight hours beneath the glow. And no matter where customers stroll in the store, they find themselves zapped in the eyes by the wall-mounted, point-of-sale laser barcode scanners.

At the same time, the stores are only marginally less expensive to operate than a 3,000 s.f. retail store. At least two of the five existing mini-stores occupy full-size mall spaces, but use the excess space for storage and not sales floor space. The stores are not located in bargain basement locations either, but rather in Apple's typical high-end malls. Both factors mean that the savings from operating a mini-store is only marginal.

So when mini-stores begin opening once again, expect to see some design changes, and perhaps even retro-fits for the existing stores.

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=935

Wiskedjak · Mar 5, 2005, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
As for the mini-stores that Apple introduced in Oct. 2004, no future stores are in the pipeline, apparently due to dissatisfaction among Apple executives with the design and materials. The stores' stainless steel siding is expensive to manufacture and import from Japan. The epoxy flooring, which replaced the original carpeting just before the stores debuted, has suffered through two rounds of structural problems, expensive repairs and replacements. The custom-built point-of-sale terminals, intended to allow customers to process their own credit card purchases, have never operated as designed.

Even the lighting at the mini-stores is an issue: the one-piece, back-lit ceiling is tough on the eyes, especially for employees who spend eight hours beneath the glow. And no matter where customers stroll in the store, they find themselves zapped in the eyes by the wall-mounted, point-of-sale laser barcode scanners.

At the same time, the stores are only marginally less expensive to operate than a 3,000 s.f. retail store. At least two of the five existing mini-stores occupy full-size mall spaces, but use the excess space for storage and not sales floor space. The stores are not located in bargain basement locations either, but rather in Apple's typical high-end malls. Both factors mean that the savings from operating a mini-store is only marginal.

So when mini-stores begin opening once again, expect to see some design changes, and perhaps even retro-fits for the existing stores.

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=935

Sounds rather typical of Apple designs ... beautiful designs but not fully thought out regarding consequences of unconventional designs and materials use leading to costly problems (ie: the use of titanium in PB enclosures, white spots on the AL PBs, Cube too small for it's own good, etc ...)

Disgruntled Head of C-3PO · Mar 5, 2005, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
Cube too small for it's own good

How so?

Wiskedjak · Mar 5, 2005, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
How so?

The small size of the Cube required the use of many custom and laptop components, driving it's price into laptop range with none of a laptop's portability. The high price, as a direct result of the Cube's size, led to the Cube's failure, IMO.

piot · Mar 5, 2005, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=935

This Appleinsider article was written by the same guy that wrote the original rant.
http://www.ifoapplestore.com/rants/rant11.htm

I like the minimal look. It's not so minimal when there are people there waiting patiently to grab an ipod or a mini! There may indeed be some design probs, but they can be fixed. The most imortant thing is ....do people spend their dollars there.

This just sounds like one guy saying the stores are not succesful, just because HE doesn't appreciate the design.

ort888 · Mar 5, 2005, 04:09 PM

I finally saw our mini-store and it's not as bad as that photo. There may be a little wasted space in the middle, but it was full of people and inviting.

It doesn't look so empty in person.

Big Mac · Mar 5, 2005, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
At the same time, the stores are only marginally less expensive to operate than a 3,000 s.f. retail store. At least two of the five existing mini-stores occupy full-size mall spaces, but use the excess space for storage and not sales floor space. The stores are not located in bargain basement locations either, but rather in Apple's typical high-end malls. Both factors mean that the savings from operating a mini-store is only marginal.

If the excess space is used for storage (of product, right?), then it's still being utilized for an apparently valid purpose. What's wrong with that?

FINALLY! 2000 POSTS!