[malvolio]

ID Data Conned From Firm

ChoicePoint Case Points to Huge Fraud

By Robert O'Harrow Jr.
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, February 17, 2005

One of the nation's biggest information services has begun warning more than 100,000 people across the country they may be targets of fraud, following disclosures the company inadvertently sold personal and financial records to fraud artists apparently involved in a massive identity theft scheme.

ChoicePoint Inc. electronically delivered thousands of reports containing names, addresses, Social Security numbers, financial information and other details to people in the Los Angeles area posing as officials in legitimate debt collection, insurance and check-cashing businesses.

At least 700 victims have had their mailing addresses changed, apparently by people connected to the scheme, authorities said. Identity thieves often change the addresses of victims in order to gain control of credit card offers and other mail. No one knows the extent of the fraud or the financial impact, authorities said. Only one suspect has been arrested.

Earlier this week, ChoicePoint officials said the records of about 35,000 people in California may have been disclosed. But yesterday, the company said the scope of the scheme is probably much wider than it originally reported. Company officials said they were sending out more letters to 110,000 addresses throughout the country that may be connected to the reports delivered to the fraudsters.

"We have reason to believe your personal information may have been obtained by unauthorized third parties, and we deeply regret any inconvenience this event may cause you," the letters say.

Authorities said the number of records involved may go higher as the investigation continues. "This is way far more reaching," said Los Angeles Sheriff's Department Lt. Robert Costa, commander of an identity theft unit. "I believe that when we're done it will be more than a half million nationally. It's huge."

Alpharetta, Ga.-based ChoicePoint maintains databases with billions of records about nearly every adult in America, including credit reports and criminal records. Over the past seven years, it has acquired more than 50 other information companies. Like others in the industry, the company routinely sells dossiers to police, lawyers, reporters and intelligence and homeland security officials across the Internet.

If you haven't gotten any mail lately, be afraid. Be very afraid.

[Sarc]

only in america such a company could exist.

[Athens]

Originally posted by Sarc:
only in america such a company could exist.

Identity theift is a big problem anywhere, dosent have to be a company selling personal info. PPl that dig through your trash, ppl that break into your mail boxes. Its becoming a big problem.

[analogika]

Originally posted by Athens:
Identity theift is a big problem anywhere, dosent have to be a company selling personal info. PPl that dig through your trash, ppl that break into your mail boxes. Its becoming a big problem.

Digging through trash and breaking into mailboxes is a slight qualititative difference from allowing whole-sale corporate data (ab)use and sales.

A lot of countries have laws against that (the legal trade of customer data here is limited to publicly available data - i.e. phone numbers and street addresses, IIRC).

-s*

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by analogika:
Digging through trash and breaking into mailboxes is a slight qualititative difference from allowing whole-sale corporate data (ab)use and sales.

Wait 'til we get our ID cards - then you'll see some fun (because you just know that it's all going to be kept on an unpatched Win98SE system maintained by chimps with a two-versions-old copy of ZoneAlarm protecting everything).

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by Sarc:
only in america such a company could exist.

The only identity theft I have suffered is from a Canadian.

I recently had about US$1900 stolen from me by a person living in Quebec. The police suspect it is a person from a restaurant who waited on my wife and another couple with us during a vacation in Montreal in '03.

They have records of this individual scamming thousands of Americans.

It is not an "america" thing.

[Athens]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
The only identity theft I have suffered is from a Canadian.

I recently had about US$1900 stolen from me by a person living in Quebec. The police suspect it is a person from a restaurant who waited on my wife and another couple with us during a vacation in Montreal in '03.

They have records of this individual scamming thousands of Americans.

It is not an "america" thing.

He was refering to companies selling personal information including SS numbers and stuff. No a pathetic theift.

My first CC was used on inncedent in Texas to purchase goods and another time used in Europe. It was traced back to a massive credit card coping theift in Seattle. He had a real POS terminal but he was swiping the CC twice, once was a copy machine. Either way it was easy to prove it wasent me so I lost nothing.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by Athens:
He was refering to companies selling personal information including SS numbers and stuff. No a pathetic theift.

My first CC was used on inncedent in Texas to purchase goods and another time used in Europe. It was traced back to a massive credit card coping theift in Seattle. He had a real POS terminal but he was swiping the CC twice, once was a copy machine. Either way it was easy to prove it wasent me so I lost nothing.

So, you really think that "only in america" this could happen.

You are a small minded person if you are defending him.

[Mastrap]

^ You're comparing petty criminals (internationally available) to legal data sales (international laws differ). Apples and oranges.

[wdlove]

It's a very scary situation, have heard a lot about this on the news. Has my wife and I thinking about signing up with Equifax "Credit Watch."

[turtle777]

Originally posted by Athens:
Identity theift is a big problem anywhere, dosent have to be a company selling personal info. PPl that dig through your trash, ppl that break into your mail boxes. Its becoming a big problem.

Typical answer of an American who has never left the home country.
The main culprit of the American system is the SSN. SO much information is linked to it, and the possesion of it makes it rather easy to pull scams.

It might surprise you that other countries DON'T have such a unique numbering system, and therefore, identity theft is much harder.

-t

[ThinkInsane]

Originally posted by turtle777:
Typical answer of an American who has never left the home country.
The main culprit of the American system is the SSN. SO much information is linked to it, and the possesion of it makes it rather easy to pull scams.

It might surprise you that other countries DON'T have such a unique numbering system, and therefore, identity theft is much harder.

-t

If you look at his location, you'll notice he ain't American. He's Canadian.

[malvolio]

Originally posted by turtle777:
The main culprit of the American system is the SSN. SO much information is linked to it, and the possesion of it makes it rather easy to pull scams.

It might surprise you that other countries DON'T have such a unique numbering system, and therefore, identity theft is much harder.

-t

Actually, Sweden does.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by malvolio:
Actually, Sweden does.

Is the system as broken as in the US ?

-t

[waxcrash]

I've got a paper shredder at home, buy a credit history report once a year, and check my credit card balances weekly online - so I feel safe.

[malvolio]

Originally posted by turtle777:
Is the system as broken as in the US ?

-t

I don't know, I just know the numbering system exists.
Any Swedish MacNNers want to offer their insights?

[iREZ]

waxcrash.....what about the credit cards you don't even know you have and use on a daily basis? I had a neighbor who was a victim. Got to admit, the U.S. can be stupid. You need a credit card to build your credit and afford cars, houses, computers yet you get screwed for owning credit cards by these piece's of crap who steal your identy and think it's all ok.

[Cody Dawg]

Credit these days is really pathetic.

What IS "credit?"

I mean, it means nothing. You pull it up and there's ALWAYS something on the report. Try writing to the company in question and resolving it. Even if you pay it it doesn't come off. Even if you dispute it it doesn't come off.

Think about it: They are in business to maintain credit histories, period, even bogus ones. It legitimizes them. If everyone had good credit or companies no longer used their services they'd go out of business. They have made their companies worth BILLIONS because they maintain that someone's "credit" is important.

They're bloated and huge and ineffective and the fact is that if you have a negative on your credit history getting it off is going to be very difficult, almost impossible. You may get it removed from one agency and then check with another and you'll see it on there.

Get this: A long time ago someone got my old phone number after I moved. Then they didn't pay their telephone bill. Did this go on THEIR credit history? No. It went on MINE. To this day $297 is on my credit history and it isn't even mine. I have spent probably 40 HOURS over the last 8 years arguing with the telephone company and the credit reporting companies and it never comes off. Ever.

It's bullsh*t.

[Athens]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
So, you really think that "only in america" this could happen.

You are a small minded person if you are defending him.

Do you even Read dumbass here let me highlight something for your small brain

Originally posted by Athens:
Identity theift is a big problem anywhere, dosent have to be a company selling personal info. PPl that dig through your trash, ppl that break into your mail boxes. Its becoming a big problem.

[Athens]

Originally posted by turtle777:
Typical answer of an American who has never left the home country.
The main culprit of the American system is the SSN. SO much information is linked to it, and the possesion of it makes it rather easy to pull scams.

It might surprise you that other countries DON'T have such a unique numbering system, and therefore, identity theft is much harder.

-t

Im not American!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And its a problem in New Zealand and in the Netherlands.

[tie]

To me, the biggest problem here is that ChoicePoint gets away with it. They lost to criminals the personal information of 150,000 people, and all they have to do is send out some letters (several months later)?! ChoicePoint's lackadaisical attitude is ridiculous. ChoicePoint should be liable for all losses sustained due to its incompetence.

At the moment, ChoicePoint couldn't care less. "We deeply regret any inconvenience this event may cause you." What the..!

Right now, there is nothing we can do about this. It isn't like ChoicePoint sells a product that the general public can boycott. ChoicePoint could care less about the general public.

We need new laws. Withholding disclosure of the theft of personal information, as ChoicePoint did for several months, should be a crime. We also need liability laws for stored personal information.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by Athens:
Do you even Read dumbass here let me highlight something for your small brain

Now you have resorted to calling me names? You lose.

You've got to stop letting your short fuse get the better of you.

I made a comment that my only ID theft was from a Canadian and you jumped back with a post about your ID theft from Texas. Yet you were still defending his statement that it could only happen in America even though you just told him it could happen anywhere. I am getting the impression that Canadians are about the thinnest skinned people in the world.

[ghporter]

I agree with tie-ChoicePoint should be liable for any losses that people suffer because they didn't do their homework well enough to identify bad guys trying to buy data. They should pay not only actual losses, but also a punitive sum as well. (Does this sound like "class action lawsuit?" Well done!)

I also have to agree to a point with turtle777; linking so much to the SSN was a bad mistake. It was a creeping sort of thing though, not one that you could look at along the way and say "this is bad." My "service number" in the armed forces was/is my SSN-much simpler that way. And of course much easier for the baddies to abuse.

There are a few steps in motion now to help fix this, such as some states no longer using your SSN as your driver's license number, and schools not using it as your student ID number.

It will take a long time to fix this, and the financial sector needs to stop asking for an SSN whenever they want to identify a customer; they really only need that information when it comes time to report your taxes, so why ask for it on a daily basis?

On the other hand, turtle's comments about people who "have never left the home country" are pretty nasty. I've been in places where the citizens needed "papers," and identity theft was sometimes a process of dumping a headless, handless body in a canal. I've been to other places where identity theft was the least of a citizen's worries, much lower on the list than say whether their water was actually drinkable (one drop of chlorine bleach per liter is recommended for drinking water, or you can filter and then boil it...) or whether the next rain will wash their whole town ten kliks downhill-onto another town. Europe is pretty cushy compared to other parts of the world... Don't assume that folks posting from their homes have not traveled, because you will very often be wrong, and miss the insights they may have from the places they've lived.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by ghporter:
I agree with tie-ChoicePoint should be liable for any losses that people suffer because they didn't do their homework well enough to identify bad guys trying to buy data. They should pay not only actual losses, but also a punitive sum as well. (Does this sound like "class action lawsuit?" Well done!)

I also have to agree to a point with turtle777; linking so much to the SSN was a bad mistake. It was a creeping sort of thing though, not one that you could look at along the way and say "this is bad." My "service number" in the armed forces was/is my SSN-much simpler that way. And of course much easier for the baddies to abuse.

There are a few steps in motion now to help fix this, such as some states no longer using your SSN as your driver's license number, and schools not using it as your student ID number.

It will take a long time to fix this, and the financial sector needs to stop asking for an SSN whenever they want to identify a customer; they really only need that information when it comes time to report your taxes, so why ask for it on a daily basis?

On the other hand, turtle's comments about people who "have never left the home country" are pretty nasty. I've been in places where the citizens needed "papers," and identity theft was sometimes a process of dumping a headless, handless body in a canal. I've been to other places where identity theft was the least of a citizen's worries, much lower on the list than say whether their water was actually drinkable (one drop of chlorine bleach per liter is recommended for drinking water, or you can filter and then boil it...) or whether the next rain will wash their whole town ten kliks downhill-onto another town. Europe is pretty cushy compared to other parts of the world... Don't assume that folks posting from their homes have not traveled, because you will very often be wrong, and miss the insights they may have from the places they've lived.

Well thought-out post of the day award goes to you.

[Agent69]

I check my credit report yearly. I get reports from all three credit reporting agencies. I have found errors and inconsistancies, including a bad debt that was wrongly attributed to me.

Check your credit.

[TheBadgerHunter]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
Now you have resorted to calling me names? You lose.

You've got to stop letting your short fuse get the better of you.

I made a comment that my only ID theft was from a Canadian and you jumped back with a post about your ID theft from Texas. Yet you were still defending his statement that it could only happen in America even though you just told him it could happen anywhere. I am getting the impression that Canadians are about the thinnest skinned people in the world.

You called him small-minded first.

Hmm, because you're making false accusations?

Umm, no he was saying that yours was just petty theft and not the large identity theft we're talking about. Athens isn't even canadian...

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
You called him small-minded first.

Hmm, because you're making false accusations?

Umm, no he was saying that yours was just petty theft and not the large identity theft we're talking about. Athens isn't even canadian...

Is English your second language?

I didn't call him a name. Calling someone small minded is not calling them a name. It's saying that they aren't thinking completely. It's saying that their thoughts are immature and undeveloped. Are you too small minded to understand that? BTW: I'm not calling you a name when I am asking that.

athens isn't Canadian?!?! Then why does his location state he is from from Vancouver?

I know what he was saying. But, I was saying that it isn't a case of "only in America." And so was he.

Why are you Canadians so thin skinned?

[Astro-Creep]

This makes me wonder why data collection and sale is still legal.

[Cody Dawg]

We need new laws. Withholding disclosure of the theft of personal information, as ChoicePoint did for several months, should be a crime. We also need liability laws for stored personal information.

That's true.

But know why it won't happen?

Because these *sshole companies have some of the most powerful and rich lobbies in the country.

I learned something once in a history class. The professor said that at any given time you can tell which business or organization is running a particular area of the country, such as a city. He said that back in the 1800s the tallest building in a town was a church with a steeple and life was centered around the church.

In the 1900s it was factories and similar industrial businesses.

Now, take a look around you and ask yourself, "Which company or business has the tallest building in my home town?"

In 99% of the cities in America or most other cities it is the BANK.

These credit reporting agencies are hand in hand with the banks. The banks are running this country. People are in debt up to their eyeballs in most instances and the they owe, owe, owe. The banks and these companies are liable to NO ONE.

THEY ARE RUNNING THE WORLD.

[Big Mac]

Look at ChoicePoint's motto: "Smarter decisions. Safer world." I imagine the trial lawyers are itching to get to court with a huge class action suit. Hopefully they will bankrupt ChoicePoint out of business.

[Athens]

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
You called him small-minded first.

Hmm, because you're making false accusations?

Umm, no he was saying that yours was just petty theft and not the large identity theft we're talking about. Athens isn't even canadian...

What do you mean im not Canadian OMG !!! how are so many people getting this wrong!!

[Athens]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
Is English your second language?

I didn't call him a name. Calling someone small minded is not calling them a name. It's saying that they aren't thinking completely. It's saying that their thoughts are immature and undeveloped. Are you too small minded to understand that? BTW: I'm not calling you a name when I am asking that.

athens isn't Canadian?!?! Then why does his location state he is from from Vancouver?

I know what he was saying. But, I was saying that it isn't a case of "only in America." And so was he.

Why are you Canadians so thin skinned?

I NEVER SAID IT WAS ONLY IN THE US Jesus Christ I defend the US for once from some one else making a stupid comment and your still on my ass over nothing. Get over it kid stop trying to pick things with me.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by Athens:
I NEVER SAID IT WAS ONLY IN THE US Jesus Christ I defend the US for once from some one else making a stupid comment and your still on my ass over nothing. Get over it kid stop trying to pick things with me.

Yet when someone said something bad about Canada you had to jump in and bash the US again.

Your record is skipping.

If I'm a kid, then you're a toddler. Aren't you still in your teens?

[Athens]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
Yet when someone said something bad about Canada you had to jump in and bash the US again.

Your record is skipping.

If I'm a kid, then you're a toddler. Aren't you still in your teens?

what the hell are you talking about.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by Athens:
what the hell are you talking about.

Here.

And...

Here.

Look, I'm done with you. Your debate skills are weak and you can barely spell or use correct grammar. Continue on without me.

[Athens]

OMFG DO YOU READ!!!!!!!!!!!! LOOK I MENTIONED EUROPE TOO!!!!!!!!!!!! AND THATS NOT BASHING ANYTHING YOU #^*@^%&#(*$&#. A guy in Seattle ran a credit card coping scheme HOW IS THAT BASHING ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!! you have no skin at all, you are just iching to defend when there isnt even a attack. Good luck in your quest.

[analogika]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
Yet when someone said something bad about Canada you had to jump in and bash the US again.

Your record is skipping.

If I'm a kid, then you're a toddler. Aren't you still in your teens?

Dude, put your insecurity and national identity crisis back in the drawer and read the thread again WITHOUT the chip on your shoulder.

Seriously.

[Athens]

Originally posted by analogika:
Dude, put your insecurity and national identity crisis back in the drawer and read the thread again WITHOUT the chip on your shoulder.

Seriously.

Thank you!

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by analogika:
Dude, put your insecurity and national identity crisis back in the drawer and read the thread again WITHOUT the chip on your shoulder.

Seriously.

You should be saying the same thing to the boy also.

And as a slight correction to you, I do not have an identity crisis. I am a citizen of the United States of America. No crisis there, as I know my national identity.

[sugar_coated]

Don't believe that security is possible through obscurity.

[analogika]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
And as a slight correction to you, I do not have an identity crisis. I am a citizen of the United States of America. No crisis there, as I know my national identity.

You're either being obtuse, or smug, I'm not sure.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by sugar_coated:
Don't believe that security is possible through obscurity.

I seriously want to know your agenda.

Are you b9/6z reincarnated?

[Athens]

double post

[Athens]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
I seriously want to know your agenda.

Are you b9/6z reincarnated?

why does every one have to have a agenda or be anti American with you?

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by analogika:
You're either being obtuse, or smug, I'm not sure.

I'm pointing out that you don't know what you're talking about.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by Athens:
why does every one have to have a agenda or be anti American with you?

Why do you think there are such absolutes?

[turtle777]

Ok, before everyone kills each other, how about distinguishing different TYPES of identity theft (IT).

1) Stolen credit cards
Can happen, of course, anywhere in the world.
But that sort of IT is not too worrying because you usually get the money back or don't even have to pay it in the first place.
The credit card companies KNOW that their system is flawed, but fixing it would be more expensive than paying for the abuse.

2) Check fraud
Well, my friends, this is very much a US problem, because the US just happens to be a freakin' check-lovin' country.
Checks are just plain stupid, the whole system far too easy to manipulate. Let alone thinking of the efficiency and cost-effectiveness of that system...
Most countries in Europe have abandoned checks almost completely. E.g. Germany, where checks became obsolete when the Euro was introduced . Today, wiring money (electronic transfers) from Germany to other European countries are FREE !!!

3) Assuming someone else's identity for obtaining credit cards, loans etc...
To my knowledge, a much bigger problem in the US than anywhere else, because of the SSN being tied to everything. If you have someone's name, address, SSN and DOB (basically, the information found on most DLs), you can apply for all kinds of things and mess up someone's credit. Not cool.

-t

[Person Man]

Originally posted by turtle777:
2) Check fraud
Today, wiring money (electronic transfers) from Germany to other European countries are FREE !!!

That's not likely to catch on over here for a while because of the high-profile eBay Western Union scams.

But, many banks are starting to convert real checks to electronic money transfers (eChecks), so it will happen eventually.

[analogika]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
I'm pointing out that you don't know what you're talking about.

Ah - obtuse.

Thank you for clarifying.

[ghporter]

Originally posted by Person Man:
That's not likely to catch on over here for a while because of the high-profile eBay Western Union scams.

But, many banks are starting to convert real checks to electronic money transfers (eChecks), so it will happen eventually.

These "electronic substitute checks" move through the same channels that interbank fund transfers do. It would likely be far easier to simply break that system and steal wholesale than to first break the interbank system, and then steal one check at a time.

Not to say that's impossible, but it's unlikely. And you'd better have a lot of gold and amunition stashed away for such an event, because it would topple the entire worldwide economy.