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jbartone · Feb 18, 2005, 03:04 AM

ROFLMAO!

Can't say they didn't deserve it.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...487741,00.html

Kyoto protest beaten back by inflamed petrol traders
By Laura Peek and Liz Chong

WHEN 35 Greenpeace protesters stormed the International Petroleum Exchange (IPE) yesterday they had planned the operation in great detail.

What they were not prepared for was the post-prandial aggression of oil traders who kicked and punched them back on to the pavement.

�We bit off more than we could chew. They were just Cockney barrow boy spivs. Total thugs,� one protester said, rubbing his bruised skull. �I�ve never seen anyone less amenable to listening to our point of view.�

Another said: �I took on a Texan Swat team at Esso last year and they were angels compared with this lot.� Behind him, on the balcony of the pub opposite the IPE, a bleary-eyed trader, pint in hand, yelled: �Sod off, Swampy.�

Greenpeace had hoped to paralyse oil trading at the exchange in the City near Tower Bridge on the day that the Kyoto Protocol came into force. �The Kyoto Protocol has modest aims to improve the climate and we need huge aims,� a spokesman said.

screamingFit · Feb 18, 2005, 05:15 AM

Well, that's just a stupid comment. Why would they deserve physical violence?

Really, I'd love to know why you think this.

jbartone · Feb 18, 2005, 05:42 AM

Originally posted by screamingFit:
Well, that's just a stupid comment. Why would they deserve physical violence?

Really, I'd love to know why you think this.

They can protest all they want, but once they start tresspassing into someone's place of work and deliberately disrupting them, they are fair game. Absolutely no sympathy from me. Maybe it'll teach them a lesson.

Eriamjh · Feb 18, 2005, 06:15 AM

Interfere with someone's job, environmentally friendly or not, and they may get a little upset, enough to beat the crap out of you.

I'd say they were asking for it.

screamingFit · Feb 18, 2005, 06:28 AM

Originally posted by jbartone:
They can protest all they want, but once they start tresspassing into someone's place of work and deliberately disrupting them, they are fair game. Absolutely no sympathy from me. Maybe it'll teach them a lesson.

More from the article:
But they were set upon by traders, most of whom were under the age of 25. �They were kicking and punching men and women indiscriminately,� a photographer said. �It was really ugly, but Greenpeace did not fight back.�

Mr Beresford said: �They followed the guys into the lobby and kept kicking and punching them there. They literally kicked them on to the pavement.�

Last night Greenpeace said two protesters were in hospital, one with a suspected broken jaw, the other with concussion.

Sorry, but tresspassing doesn't mean they are "fair game". I hope that the employees who did the beating will be arrested and/or sued. Should the activists be jailed for trespassing? Yes. Beaten? No.

Why is that people who do/support harm to the environment and animals are always so angry and physical? The inner turmoil of guilt.

dcmacdaddy · Feb 18, 2005, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by screamingFit:
Sorry, but tresspassing doesn't mean they are "fair game".

Yes it does! I've done my fair share of non-violent environmental protests--standing WITH the Greenies not against them--but the first time some protestor comes barging into my place of work I am going to be right up front bouncing them out on their ass. That is not the way to go about getting positive press for their cause.

These protestors could have stood outside on the sidewalk all day long garnering attention for their cause. Now any media interest in their cause has become secondary to the story of their thrashing at the hands of oil traders. These are not very smart protestors if they haven't figured out how to get the best positive press coverage . . . as opposed to simply the most coverage.

I applaud their intentions but their implementation deserves all the dis-credit that can be heaped upon it.

wataru · Feb 18, 2005, 08:03 AM

Maybe this should have been posted in the political lounge since you're so anxious to gloat over "greenies" being beaten up.

typoon · Feb 18, 2005, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by dcmacdaddy:
Yes it does! I've done my fair share of non-violent environmental protests--standing WITH the Greenies not against them--but the first time some protestor comes barging into my place of work I am going to be right up front bouncing them out on their ass. That is not the way to go about getting positive press for their cause.

These protestors could have stood outside on the sidewalk all day long garnering attention for their cause. Now any media interest in their cause has become secondary to the story of their thrashing at the hands of oil traders. These are not very smart protestors if they haven't figured out how to get the best positive press coverage . . . as opposed to simply the most coverage.

I applaud their intentions but their implementation deserves all the dis-credit that can be heaped upon it.

I totally agree with you on this. They can protest all they want but once they cause interference they should get there a$$es kicked.

Sherwin · Feb 18, 2005, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by screamingFit:
[B]Sorry, but tresspassing doesn't mean they are "fair game". I hope that the employees who did the beating will be arrested and/or sued.

WHEN 35 Greenpeace protesters stormed the International Petroleum Exchange (IPE) yesterday they had planned the operation in great detail.
�We bit off more than we could chew. They were just Cockney barrow boy spivs. Total thugs,� one protester said, rubbing his bruised skull. �I�ve never seen anyone less amenable to listening to our point of view.�

Storming buildings isn't a real good way to get people to listen to your point of view.

Originally posted by screamingFit:
Should the activists be jailed for trespassing? Yes.

Hmmm... That would be reasonable, but since the UK government has recently abandoned the concept of "trespassing" being an offence, I don't think it'd work.

(yes, really. Someone can stand in the middle of my garden for as long as they like and there's nothing I can legally do about it.)

Oisín · Feb 18, 2005, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by Sherwin:
Hmmm... That would be reasonable, but since the UK government has recently abandoned the concept of "trespassing" being an offence, I don't think it'd work.

(yes, really. Someone can stand in the middle of my garden for as long as they like and there's nothing I can legally do about it.)

Even if they went into your house? What about forced entry? Surely that is still a crime?

screamingFit · Feb 18, 2005, 09:25 AM

I think some of you love your workplace too much and your priorities out of wack. I'd just walk out the backdoor and call the police on my cell and finish working when they are taken away. But to physically beat someone in the business and on the street, well, that's over the line as to what you should "legally" be able to do.

I agree that the way they did it wasn't the best but, I'm glad they brought attention to the problem. If they just were on the street, I would of never of heard of this.

Sherwin · Feb 18, 2005, 09:35 AM

Originally posted by Ois�n:
Even if they went into your house?

You know, I'm not sure it would be classed as a crime (or at least one which anyone bothered to do anything about) if the house was unlocked - say if you'd left the back door open to let some air in.

Originally posted by Ois�n:
What about forced entry? Surely that is still a crime?

Yep - that's still a crime.

Originally posted by screamingFit:
I think some of you love your workplace too much and your priorities out of wack. I'd just walk out the backdoor and call the police on my cell and finish working when they are taken away.

This is the UK, not the US.

1) Fighting is the national pastime. Friday nights = beer and fight! Weekday fights = bonus! Weekday fights which let you stop work for a while = perfect!

2) You'd be waiting a long time to finish your work if you were relying on the police to turn up and sort it out.

dcmacdaddy · Feb 18, 2005, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by screamingFit:
I think some of you love your workplace too much and your priorities out of wack. I'd just walk out the backdoor and call the police on my cell and finish working when they are taken away. But to physically beat someone in the business and on the street, well, that's over the line as to what you should "legally" be able to do.

I agree that the way they did it wasn't the best but, I'm glad they brought attention to the problem. If they just were on the street, I would of never of heard of this.

Love my workplace? NO!

Despise people trying to disrupt my place of work to impose their political views on me unwillingly? YES!!!

Like I said previously, I applaud their cause but their methods are out of whack.

As to this comment,

"I agree that the way they did it wasn't the best but, I'm glad they brought attention to the problem. If they just were on the street, I would of never of heard of this."

Are you an adherent to the any-press-is-good-press school of public protest? Becuase there are lots of us out here in the world who are a little more discerning in our political ideologies and don't subscribe to the cause-a-ruckus school of political protest. Was this group's goal to get their issues heard or simply to gain themselves some press attention in the hopes that then they can expound to the press about their cause? Because it looks like to me they failed in getting their point across.

typoon · Feb 18, 2005, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by Sherwin:
Storming buildings isn't a real good way to get people to listen to your point of view.

Unfortunately that is what Greenpeace and many of these other organizations do.

pooka · Feb 18, 2005, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by screamingFit:
I think some of you love your workplace too much and your priorities out of wack. I'd just walk out the backdoor and call the police on my cell and finish working when they are taken away. But to physically beat someone in the business and on the street, well, that's over the line as to what you should "legally" be able to do.

Dude, I've beaten coworkers for interfering with my deadlines.

screamingFit · Feb 18, 2005, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by dcmacdaddy:
As to this comment,
"I agree that the way they did it wasn't the best but, I'm glad they brought attention to the problem. If they just were on the street, I would of never of heard of this."

Are you an adherent to the any-press-is-good-press school of public protest? Becuase there are lots of us out here in the world who are a little more discerning in our political ideologies and don't subscribe to the cause-a-ruckus school of political protest. Was this group's goal to get their issues heard or simply to gain themselves some press attention in the hopes that then they can expound to the press about their cause? Because it looks like to me they failed in getting their point across.

Why, yes I am in this instance. Considering that if they were on the street, they'd probably of been arrested quickly and there would of been no press coverage. Whether they failed or not, they have one more supporter now. Aside from that, though, it is still illegal to beat the crap out of someone, AFAIK.

Person Man · Feb 18, 2005, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by screamingFit:
they have one more supporter now

So you think it's perfectly OK for someone who doesn't share your political views to just barge into your workplace and interfere with your job. How about some of the more extreme environmentalists who would bomb your workplace? Or destroy something you spent a lifetime working on because someone believed differently than you (I'm talking about more than one group here... not just environmentalists).

It doesn't change the fact that they should not have been beaten up. One can still "forcibly eject" someone without injuring them.

malvolio · Feb 18, 2005, 11:16 AM

Behind him, on the balcony of the pub opposite the IPE, a bleary-eyed trader, pint in hand, yelled: Sod off, Swampy.

Apparently the "aggressive" response of the oil traders was fueled by alcohol.

Sherwin · Feb 18, 2005, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by screamingFit:
Aside from that, though, it is still illegal to beat the crap out of someone, AFAIK.

Originally posted by Person Man:
It doesn't change the fact that they should not have been beaten up. One can still "forcibly eject" someone without injuring them.

Originally posted by Sherwin:
This is the UK, not the US.
Fighting is the national pastime.

budster101 · Feb 18, 2005, 11:28 AM

I thought it was rather funny. What did they expect? It was not exactly a peaceful protest...

"The reason we did this is that the Kyoto accord, which comes into force today, has modest targets to cut greenhouse gases.

"We need huge cuts if we are going to divert dangerous climate change.

"So today we said that by stopping oil being traded, and we're asking the world to take a deep breath on this and consider where our oil addiction is taking us."

I'd like to see what would happen to them in CHINA, who also is not a part of the Kyoto Accord... They would roll tanks over their a$$es.

reference: http://www.smh.com.au/news/Business/...?oneclick=true

These guys need spellcheck!

Xeo · Feb 18, 2005, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by Sherwin:
1) Fighting is the national pastime.

So in the UK, beating people who aren't fighting back is "fighting" and perfectly acceptable?

Honestly, I don't care. They definitely had no right to enter their work place. But those guys could have just as well thrown them out (even physically) rather than punching, kicking, and sending them to the hospital. Sounds like they just got the riot-mentality and did as a group what they wouldn't as individuals. I hate that about people.

Sherwin · Feb 18, 2005, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by Xeo:
So in the UK, beating people who aren't fighting back is "fighting" and perfectly acceptable?

We're assuming that they weren't fighting back. We've only got Greenpeace's word for that (the "photographer" who was there telling us about it was almost certainly attached to the Greenpeace party). From experience, I can tell you that your average tree-hugger here isn't exactly a non-violent angel type - for example, *every* instance of violence at neo-nazi rallies is started by the tree-huggers who turn up in opposition.

Originally posted by Xeo:
Honestly, I don't care. They definitely had no right to enter their work place. But those guys could have just as well thrown them out (even physically) rather than punching, kicking, and sending them to the hospital.

I've known night-club bouncers here start smacking each other 'coz one of them threw someone out without administering a beating and the other didn't agree with it.

Originally posted by Xeo:
Sounds like they just got the riot-mentality and did as a group what they wouldn't as individuals. I hate that about people.

Narh. Individuals are pretty violent here too - the group mentality thing only plays a small part. For example, you may have thought that the violence displayed by English fans abroad at soccer matches is a a result of the riot-mentality. Not so - I can assure you that each and every one of those fans is just as prone to violence when they're on their own.

But... ...You're making it sound like it's a bad thing. Seriously - the mentality in the UK with regards to violence is such that the people getting beaten in this instance probably enjoyed it - it's "fun".

It's just the way the UK is. It's in our blood or something.

typoon · 12:00 PM

Originally posted by Xeo:
So in the UK, beating people who aren't fighting back is "fighting" and perfectly acceptable?

Honestly, I don't care. They definitely had no right to enter their work place. But those guys could have just as well thrown them out (even physically) rather than punching, kicking, and sending them to the hospital. Sounds like they just got the riot-mentality and did as a group what they wouldn't as individuals. I hate that about people.

Unfortunately people from groups like that are not easily "just thrown out." Even physically.

Also when "Greenpeace had hoped to paralyse oil trading at the exchange in the City near Tower Bridge on the day that the Kyoto Protocol came into force. �The Kyoto Protocol has modest aims to improve the climate and we need huge aims,� a spokesman said."

Trying to "Paralyze trading." That alone warrants a beat down. There are better ways of making a point. Storming a building is NOT one of them.

screamingFit · Feb 18, 2005, 01:20 PM

So you think it's perfectly OK for someone who doesn't share your political views to just barge into your workplace and interfere with your job. How about some of the more extreme environmentalists who would bomb your workplace? Or destroy something you spent a lifetime working on because someone believed differently than you (I'm talking about more than one group here... not just environmentalists).

If my job is of a sleaze, as in oil trader, sure. I'd expect it. Point is, they didn't bomb a workplace or destroy something people worked a lifetime on. C'mon, most people on this board would beat the crap of these traders if given a chance and especially if that chance was "legal". Screw being polite and just causing an interruption.

Trying to "Paralyze trading." That alone warrants a beat down. There are better ways of making a point. Storming a building is NOT one of them.

I agree. Maybe ELF should get involved.

typoon · Feb 18, 2005, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by screamingFit:
If my job is of a sleaze, as in oil trader, sure. I'd expect it. Point is, they didn't bomb a workplace or destroy something people worked a lifetime on. C'mon, most people on this board would beat the crap of these traders if given a chance and especially if that chance was "legal". Screw being polite and just causing an interruption.

I agree. Maybe ELF should get involved.

Sleaze as an oil trader? I guess you don't drive a car, fly in planes. Why would I beat up an oil trader if I had the chance? I might thank them for trying to keep the price of oil low so I can keep driving the car of my choice.

screamingFit · Feb 18, 2005, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by typoon:
Sleaze as an oil trader? I guess you don't drive a car, fly in planes. Why would I beat up an oil trader if I had the chance? I might thank them for trying to keep the price of oil low so I can keep driving the car of my choice.

"Thank you for your vote!"
-G.W.B.

typoon · Feb 18, 2005, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by screamingFit:
"Thank you for your vote!"
-G.W.B.

You're welcome... Don't get me wrong I'm not against alternative fuel cars. But Oil traders are not evil. It's also not right to try and "Paralyze trading." Just because some group doesn't like it and thinks it's evil.