[l008com]

I'm starting my own web hosting service and I really need to accept Credit Cards, the hassle of accepting checks would be a huge headache. Well apparently so will accepting a Credit Card. I have joined 2CheckOut.com, on their promise of "5.5% + $0.45" transaction fee and no other fees. Well they lied, there's also a $4-$20 payment fee, and a 5%, 90 day holdback they don't tell you about. And their web site is completely junk. It is totally just thrown together with no logic or order at all. It totally sucks.

Are there any better merchant programs out there? Simply put, I want to get the most amount of my money when all is said and done. And I need an easy way to have my customer sign up for their subscriptions (monthly billing) And each customer is getting billed a different amount so I don't have "products" per-se.

[amsalpemkcus]

http://www.internetsecure.com/ ???

[l008com]

Do you actually use them? Their site looks a little... iffy. And I can't seem to find what their fees are, which IS the primary piece of info you need to know when looking at merchant sites.

[Scifience]

Hmm, I've never had any problems with 2Checkout. Their new "Version 2" interface is much better.

There is always PayPal...

[l008com]

PayPal, yeah ok....


NEXT

[Angus_D]

PayPal, Kagi, eSellerate.

[SVass]

check http://www.kagi.com/

[sugar_coated]

All online transactions are inherently insecure and insurable.

[olePigeon]

Have you tried your bank? Most offer merchant accounts and Credit Card services.

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
Have you tried your bank? Most offer merchant accounts and Credit Card services.

That's what we're doing. Ask your business bank manager for advice. Most banks have got far more reasonable about giving merchant accounts to small businesses.

[l008com]

Trouble is i need internet merchant account, i don't want a swiper, and my bank is technologically challenged. I'll check it out but somehow I doubt it.

[- - e r i k - -]

I use PayPal, never had a problem with it.

[l008com]

But all your customers must sign up for a paypal account right? I don't want to have to make my customers do that. What are the fees though, cause as a last resort i might be kinda screwed.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by l008com:
But all your customers must sign up for a paypal account right? I don't want to have to make my customers do that. What are the fees though, cause as a last resort i might be kinda screwed.

No.

Don't Have a PayPal Account?

You don't need an account. Pay securely using your credit card.

The fees are acceptable. 2,9% Monthly Received Payment (USD)
$0.00 USD-$3,000.00 US

2,5% for monthly payments from 3,000.01 USD-$10,000.00 USD

and less if more.

And a hell of a lot less than that 2checkout scam you started with.

[l008com]

What about subscriptions, if I want to bill people each month for a service, can they still do that without signing up for paypal themselves?

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by l008com:
What about subscriptions, if I want to bill people each month for a service, can they still do that without signing up for paypal themselves?

I don't know about subscriptions, but I'm sure PayPal.com is a better resource than the lounge for such specific questions

[l008com]

You would think that...

[Mastrap]

Paypal - don't get me started.

We used paypal when we launched the business, simply because nobody wanted to give us a merchant account at acceptable terms. It was a total nightmare, from people being reluctant to use it because they were worried about all the phishing attacks that were targeting paypal for a while to real usability issues in certain browsers.

We're ditching it as fast as we possibly can, moving everything to a proper CC account.

[l008com]

So what are you switching to? Please give me the details!

[Mastrap]

I told you before - our bank.
HSBC.

We switched to them about four month back, and they offered us a deal comparable to paypal.

[Big Mac]

Originally posted by Mastrap:
Paypal - don't get me started.

We used paypal when we launched the business, simply because nobody wanted to give us a merchant account at acceptable terms. It was a total nightmare, from people being reluctant to use it because they were worried about all the phishing attacks that were targeting paypal for a while to real usability issues in certain browsers.

We're ditching it as fast as we possibly can, moving everything to a proper CC account.

I have never heard of people being leery of PayPal. The problem with PayPal is that it makes your site look a bit less professional if you use it as opposed to a merchant system that is well integrated. PayPal also lacks features such as merchant definable fields, so the type of information you request will be limited. It is fine for individuals and smaller organizations to use PayPal. It is fast, secure and ubiquitous. But those who do (or expect to do) significant levels of business really do need more professional alternatives. I have been saying for quite sometime that Apple should produce a web authoring/server suite. With Apple's Safari experience I doubt it would be much of a stretch for the company to create a really wonderful suite, and if the development resources were expended Apple would do a better job than anyone else. If only Apple would listen to me. . .

[Person Man]

Originally posted by Big Mac:
I have never heard of people being leery of PayPal.

Oh Really???

I have a PayPal account that I don't advertise on those rare occasions that I sell items on eBay. I only give it out to winning bidders if they whine and complain that sending a cashier's check or money order is too hard to do.

How hard is it to go to a convenience store and buy a damn money order??

[l008com]

Yeah I'm in the same boat as you. The reason is, even though I have paypal, its a personal paypal account. So if I click that I accept paypal, it automatically put credit card logos on my auction. But I have a personal account so if someone tries to pay me with a credit card, I have to deny their payment, or, upgrade my account to a biz account where paypal takes a cut of all my payments. Plus they now have a receiving limit, so a personal account can only receive $500 Max per month, then you have to wait until the next month to receive any more money. Thats why I don't advertise my paypal account, i've heard of the other stuff but never experienced it in person, but I do keep a low balance just in case.

[olePigeon]

What about a Credit Union?

[l008com]

I don't think any local banks or things like banks will get me what i need because I need all online transactions you know, I don't want a CC swiper, just billing via the web. I'm still looking.

[olePigeon]

Do you have your Apple Certs? Just looked at your webapge, looks like a fun job.

[l008com]

No apple certs are way overrated, really. Yeah I like it :-)

So I'm looking around a lot between these posts, and PayPal seems to be by far the cheapest, so I just might end up going with them. Or at least going with them until they screw me over then switching to someone else. Although once I get customers its going to be a pain in the balls to switch isn't it... hmmmm

[Mastrap]

I really cannot recommend paypal for business. I know you don't think your bank can help you, but have you actually asked them? A lot of banks have a small business section, some of which are extremely helpful.

[l008com]

Banks haven't been open yet since I started this thread :-)

[Big Mac]

Originally posted by Person Man:
Oh Really???

That site mainly discusses problems from the merchant's point of view. And I do agree that there are problems in that regard. But I was referring to the safety of PayPal from the buyer's POV - most buyers trust PayPal. And if some people are careless enough to get phished by those ridiculously unprofessional come-ons, they deserve what they get.

Originally posted by l008com:
Yeah I'm in the same boat as you. The reason is, even though I have paypal, its a personal paypal account. So if I click that I accept paypal, it automatically put credit card logos on my auction. But I have a personal account so if someone tries to pay me with a credit card, I have to deny their payment, or, upgrade my account to a biz account where paypal takes a cut of all my payments. Plus they now have a receiving limit, so a personal account can only receive $500 Max per month, then you have to wait until the next month to receive any more money. Thats why I don't advertise my paypal account, i've heard of the other stuff but never experienced it in person, but I do keep a low balance just in case.

You do know that according to PayPal you can lift the limit by supplying them with a SSN or getting one of their cards, right? Again, I am certainly not suggesting that PayPal is a professional solution. PayPal is good for individuals and small establishments but obviously unsuited for anything more than that.

[l008com]

Originally posted by Big Mac:
That site mainly discusses problems from the merchant's point of view. And I do agree that there are problems in that regard. But I was referring to the safety of PayPal from the buyer's POV - most buyers trust PayPal. And if some people are careless enough to get phished by those ridiculously unprofessional come-ons, they deserve what they get.


You do know that according to PayPal you can lift the limit by supplying them with a SSN or getting one of their cards, right? Again, I am certainly not suggesting that PayPal is a professional solution. PayPal is good for individuals and small establishments but obviously unsuited for anything more than that.

I'm afraid you are mistaken, to remove that limit, you must give paypal 2.9% of every transaction you make.

To remove this limit you will need to upgrade to a Business or Premier Account.

Any I have been burned by paypal as a buyer. My seller kept stringing me on past the 30 day limit, and paypal said there's nothing they can do. He kept telling me he was checking the item out, and he was sending it back to the manufacturer etc. The case was total defective, now I have no case and no money. But I got him back, with free catalogs by mail :-D

Anyway I found a company called www.ProPay.com, anyone hear of it? They have much better rates, although they don't do automatic billing, I'm going to have to sit down each month and manually bill out each client. But that might end up being a good thing, then it will be easy to upgrade someone's account. We'll see how it goes, but its only 3.5% plus 35¢ so I'll probably go with them.

[Big Mac]

From their Help Center:

Withdrawing Funds

What is the Withdrawal Limit for new U.S. accounts?

New account holders are limited to withdrawing $500.00 USD per month from their PayPal account. The start of a month is marked when the PayPal account is opened (e.g. May 15 to June 15).

The Withdrawal Limit can be removed by authenticating your identity.

To authenticate your identity, you must complete two of the following three requirements:
Add and Confirm a bank account
Enter your Expanded Use Number
Confirm your Social Security Number

[l008com]

Oh I didn't even know there was a withdrawal limit, I was talking about the deposit limit. PayPal sucks.

[Big Mac]

Sorry about the miscommunication. I only get near $500 monthly deposits on my organization's account, and that account is a merchant account anyway, so I would not know about that limitation for standard user accounts. I just read $500 limit and assumed you were talking about the withdrawal limit on unauthenticated accounts.

[Scifience]

Originally posted by l008com:
but its only 3.5% plus 35¢ so I'll probably go with them.

Aren't PayPal's rates better than that?

I've also heard good things about WorldPay. They are run by the Royal Bank of Scotland. http://www.worldpay.com/

[l008com]

Worldpay is expensive. And yes ProPay is more than PayPal but cheaper than all the rest, and read above to see why im not going with PayPal.

[Mastrap]

Worldpay will, in most cases, match paypal's rates. Call them and tell them that you're a current paypal member but that you're looking for an alternative. They will negotiate.

We very nearly went with them, but then our bank came through with a great rate and we decided to keep all of our eggs in one basket.

[Scifience]

Paymentech is a true merchant account and used for Yahoo! business packages.

http://www.paymentech.com/

[l008com]

Hey the chick in on that site is on a TiBook!

[effgee]

Originally posted by Big Mac:
I have never heard of people being leery of PayPal. ...

Well, you have now. I will not give my business to a company that accepts payments only via PayPal - regardless of whether I purchase something privately or for my company. And neither will my wife, her family, my family or any of my closer friends. Not only does it appear (and sound) most unprofessional if a merchant offers no other payment options, I have always been highly sceptical of the kind of value PayPal brings to contractual agreements.

So, now you can say you know about 30-40 people who are leery of PayPal to the point that they won't use it.

[l008com]

With ProPay, I have to enter transactions manually, which means my customers have to give ME their CC info. Doesn't worry me at all but it might worry them. Oh well they'll have to get over it, my service is going to be such a value :-)

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by Person Man:
Oh Really???

I have a PayPal account that I don't advertise on those rare occasions that I sell items on eBay. I only give it out to winning bidders if they whine and complain that sending a cashier's check or money order is too hard to do.

How hard is it to go to a convenience store and buy a damn money order??

I don't buy stuff from the internet that I can't pay for ON the internet, simple as that. Lazyness? Sure, but that's why I purchase stuff on it in the first place.

[torsoboy]

I am currently looking into merchant accounts for my web site, and the one that I like the most so far is "Signature Services". Their rates are very low for most transactions (2.19% + $0.32), and they have a fairly low monthly fee of $7.50 for the monthly statement, and $15.00 for the Gateway service fee. They have no setup fee and no term contract. I did a quick application on CardBridge.com, and multiple companies responded with offers. You could try something like that. I wouldn't go with paypal either, they just don't offer good integration.

[torsoboy]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
I don't buy stuff from the internet that I can't pay for ON the internet, simple as that. Lazyness? Sure, but that's why I purchase stuff on it in the first place.

ditto

[l008com]

at this point i think im going with propay.com. They have the best rates and i rather like that fact that I do the billing myself.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by l008com:
With ProPay, I have to enter transactions manually, which means my customers have to give ME their CC info. Doesn't worry me at all but it might worry them. Oh well they'll have to get over it, my service is going to be such a value :-)

Not to sound like a PayPal-fanboy or anything, but I'd rather put my trust in them than you.

[Scifience]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
Not to sound like a PayPal-fanboy or anything, but I'd rather put my thrust in them than you.

No offense intended, but I agree with erik as well. The other thing to consider is the additional expense of $400 for an SSL certificate if you decide to accept the card # directly. There is absolutely no way anyone is going to type in their credit card info on non-secure page or send it to you by e-mail.

[torsoboy]

Originally posted by Scifience:
No offense intended, but I agree with erik as well. The other thing to consider is the additional expense of $400 for an SSL certificate if you decide to accept the card # directly. There is absolutely no way anyone is going to type in their credit card info on non-secure page or send it to you by e-mail.

I think that that is a bit exaggerated... I got my ssl certificate for $100 just a week or two ago (i think they average around $200). But you're right, there's no way people would enter CC info into a site without it.

What does that mean "manually"... you have to type it all in yourself and submit it? Or they just enter the information through your site and it goes through the merchant services from there?

[l008com]

First off they aren't entering thier CC into my web site, they'll be giving it to me over the phone. Manually means every time i want to bill someone, i log into the propay web site, type in the CC info, and click submit. And I am a company like any other company, giving me your credit card is no different then buying something at the hardware store and paying for a meal at a local restaurant. You guys make it sound like people only use plastic when some big company is involved.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by l008com:
First off they aren't entering thier CC into my web site, they'll be giving it to me over the phone. Manually means every time i want to bill someone, i log into the propay web site, type in the CC info, and click submit. And I am a company like any other company, giving me your credit card is no different then buying something at the hardware store and paying for a meal at a local restaurant. You guys make it sound like people only use plastic when some big company is involved.

Over the phone? See my comment about lazyness and paying ON the internet.