[sworthy]

Do you believe in ghosts/spirits? My fiance and most of her family have either heard voices or had very vivid dreams with deceased persons at some point in their lives. A few relatives have had very intense issues with this type of thing -- and there are a number of doctors in the family.

It's hard for me to have a conversation about a lot of those things though because I don't really believe in them. I've never had any type of issue where it's even a possibility in my mind. But, I feel like a dick when my fiance tells me these serious stories about family members and I can't really 'get into it'.

She, and all of her family, grew up in Afghanistan, and have only been in the US for 8 years. The culture over there seems to embrace it more than we do here. I have heard things about diseases being cured by a 'medicine man' type as well.

I don't believe, and I don't think that will change unless I somehow experience it.

Do you guys believe in ghosts or spirits? If so, why? If not, how do you reconcile your beliefs with "otherwise credible" people who say they have had these experiences?

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

I think that apparitions are real but they are not people returning from the dead. It might just be the environment holding on to some sort of memory of energy or events.

I don't think there is a consciousness behind them.

[MacNStein]

I'm agreeing with SWF on this (hey, it happens sometimes ). IMO, it involves a person going through great emotional distress (ie. a violent death), which in turn releases an energy that imprints itself on a given area.

[Eug Wanker]

Do you believe in ghosts/spirits?

Yes of course.

[saddino]

Nope, but I do have family members who believe.

Energy can be measured, and thus believing in such things requires believing in things beyond science. If one is religious, and thus is accustomed to accepting things on faith (or perhaps more importantly believing in a "soul") then I suppose it may be easier to make this cognitive leap. But IMHO, if there is no way to measure such things (and by "such things" I include ESP, "channeling," "auraus," and other pseudo-science) then there is no reason to believe they exist. You might has well "believe" that invisible green worms reside under your fingernails. Nobody can measure those either, so why not believe it?

Scientific method and Occam's razor are your friends.

[RAILhead]

Originally posted by saddino:
Scientific method and Occam's razor are your friends.

Yes, because both do such a great job of measuring what we know. The only problem: they can't measure what we do not know, and they only "work" if one assumes all discovery can be made by those means.

Talk about faith -- you have lots of it, my friend.

Maury

[saddino]

Originally posted by RAILhead:
The only problem: they can't measure what we do not know

And therein lies the problem: If one can invent thousands of fantasies, all immeasurable (and hence all things "we do not know"), then aren't they on equal footing with beliefs in ghosts, ESP, etc.? If one cannot measure, then one cannot give any weight of credibility of belief A over belief B.

There's nothing wrong with that of course. If someone wants to believe they have green worms living under their fingernails, then that's dandy. But they shouldn't expect the rest of the world to say "this person may be right, we just don't know how to measure this yet."

I simply prefer not to believe in infinite inventions of the mind, until they are measured. I don't call that faith, I call it rationality.

[RAILhead]

Originally posted by saddino:
I simply prefer not to believe in infinite inventions of the mind, until they are measured. I don't call that faith, I call it rationality.

Heh.

[Sherwin]

Yep. Nearly ran one over once - with an independent witness in the car.
I don't believe they're "dead folk" either - else why are there reports of ghostly objects (which were never living in the first place)?
Time ain't linear. That ghost you just saw is alive in his own time wondering why he's just seen a ghost.

[historylme]

Interesting, about linear things being in different timedimension.

I believe that there are more things that we can account for. Like the Universe. We only know 10% and the rest is a 'dark matter' sort of thing.

[zigzag]

Humans have powerful imaginations and are highly vulnerable to the power of suggestion. This has been proven time and time again. The existence of goblins has not.

Amazing how much credence people will invest in things that they would never tolerate in any other context. If I owed them money and told them that a spirit, or God, or whomever, had instructed me to give the money to charity, their belief in goblins and spirits would suddenly fade. It's an adult version of playtime.

Anyone who thinks they can prove otherwise has a million bucks waiting with their name on it: http://www.randi.org/research/index.html

[demograph68]

Originally posted by sworthy:
Do you believe in ghosts/spirits?

When I was a kid.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

yeah i do. but over the course of growing up i've learned to not fear them.

there is no way a ghost is going to pop up and shove a machete through my arse.


my family has seen it's "moments" but nothing remotely scary

[Cadaver]

I will say I have not seen any evidence that would make me think there were ghosts/spirits.

[demograph68]

Originally posted by Cadaver:
I will say I have not seen any evidence that would make me think there were ghosts/spirits.

That's because they're invisible.

[Cadaver]

Originally posted by demograph68:
That's because they're invisible.

Doh!

[Sherwin]

I've still yet to see anyone prove to me that New Zealand actually exists and that it isn't just a scam dreamed up by the Tasmanian Sheep Marketing Board.

[malvolio]

oooooEEEEEEoooooo

[demograph68]

Originally posted by malvolio:
oooooEEEEEEoooooo

[ThisGuy]

'tis a bunch of mumbo jumbo.
people that believe in ghosts oughta shampoo my crotch.

[zigzag]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
I've still yet to see anyone prove to me that New Zealand actually exists and that it isn't just a scam dreamed up by the Tasmanian Sheep Marketing Board.

Get on a friggin' plane and turn left at Australia.

[zigzag]

Originally posted by malvolio:



oooooEEEEEEoooooo

Dang, I keep tellin' Mom to lay off the Librium . . .

[zigzag]

Originally posted by ThisGuy:
'tis a bunch of mumbo jumbo.
people that believe in ghosts oughta shampoo my crotch.

[zerostar]

Originally posted by Cadaver:
I will say I have not seen any evidence that would make me think there were ghosts/spirits.

Ditto.

[sugar_coated]

Some illusions are more persistent and more convicing than others.

[Rev-O]

Nope. I think many people need to believe in ghosts, the afterlife, communicating with the dead and all that stuff to make themselves feel better about themselves. It reassures many people that there is some percieved permanence to existence. That when your physical body dies, a part of you still endures.
Hogwash. You die and become worm food. The end.

[Scientist]

Originally posted by sworthy:
My fiance and most of her family have either heard voices or had very vivid dreams with deceased persons at some point in their lives.
...
I don't believe, and I don't think that will change unless I somehow experience it.

Hallucinations like this are fairly common. It also isn't unusual for hallucinatory tendencies to run in families.

I see ghosts all the time, but it is quite obvious that they aren't "real", in the usual sense of the word.

[MacNStein]

Originally posted by Rev-O:
Hogwash. You die and become worm food. The end.

Yes, you probably will.

[roberto blanco]

Originally posted by sworthy:
Do you guys believe in ghosts or spirits?

no.

Originally posted by sworthy:
If not, how do you reconcile your beliefs with "otherwise credible" people who say they have had these experiences?

they are full of 5hit.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
I think that apparitions are real but they are not people returning from the dead.

I agree.

Originally posted by roberto blanco:
they are full of 5hit.

Some of them I am sure. But not all grasshoppaah.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by malvolio:



oooooEEEEEEoooooo

POSSESS ME BABY!!11

[Gee4orce]

I've seen some pretty good evidence caught on camera (UK show called Most Haunted - generally very flaky, but once in a while they really hit the jackpot), and several close family members have had totally inexplicable events occur to them, but I"ve never seen anything personally. So I'm kind of semi-convinced but open-minded and sceptical.

The events I mentioned could not have been put down to hallucination - you can't hallucinate getting locked in a room where the only key is kept in another part of the house and the only other person is on a different floor entirely....

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by roberto blanco:
they are full of 5hit.

LOL. So true.

[Zimphire]

I would say someome making a definitive statement about something they can't prove either way, are full of it as well.

[demograph68]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I would say someome making a definitive statement about something they can't prove either way, are full of it as well.

I'm talking to God right now. He said to tell you to shut up.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by demograph68:
I'm talking to God right now. He said to tell you to shut up.

Hahahahaha AHAH!! he he he.... hum.

[demograph68]

hum humheeehehehehaha!