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gumby5647 · Feb 28, 2005, 09:22 AM

I've had a bit of bad luck with the iTMS lately, some of them more than slighly annoying. Just thought I would share.

First of all, the previews on some of the songs are absolutely horrible.
Case 1: I wanted to preview the first track of Lewis Black's "Rules of Engagement" CD, expecting to hear 30 seconds of that skit. What did i get? "Ladies and Gentlemen, please welcome Lewis Black!" *Applause* *Applaus* *Applause* for the entire 30 seconds. WTH kind of preview is that!? I wanted to hear a part of the skit...not 30 seconds of clapping.

Case 2: I was searching for a song called Malaga done by the Stan Kenton Orchestra. Which I did find on iTMS....however, It was a live CD and it was the first track. Again, foolishly I thought i'd get a nice 30 second clip of what this version of Malaga sounded like. WRONG. I got 30 seconds of him addressing the audience about how happy they were to be here playing for them and that they have a great show in store for them tonight, etc etc etc. WTF...I wanted to hear the SONG!! not him addressing the audience!!!

The biggest annoyance has to be my inability to download one song that I really wanted.

I've had this song called "Medea's Dance of Vengeance" (by Samuel Barber), for some time now. However, it is slighly pirated...and also a highly crappy 96kbps MP3. no problem I said to myself. I HAVE A FREE SONG CAP!!! So I did my search and came up with two versions of the same song. I found the exact same version I had before. But wait!, what's this??? Download the entire album only!? HUH!? I know it's a long piece (13:06), but why do I have to download the entire album. I just want THAT song to replace the one I have. I woldn't have been as annoyed by it had i not just downloaded "An American in Paris" from the iTMS,...which is a whopping 18:29. So who dictates if you can only buy an album only? Apple or the record company?

Seriously, if there is one thing that needs to be addressed, it is this concept of buying/downloading the entire album thing. iTMS should be individual songs only. That's part of the reason why it was created...and why it is so successful today...people didn't want to buy a 15.99 CD for the 3 songs that they liked. However, sometimes I actually like the ENTIRE CD, in which case...yes, i'll spend upwards of 17.99 for the disc (*cough* CSO playing the Planets *cough*)

Sorry, needed to vent...

ort888 · Feb 28, 2005, 09:31 AM

I think all of those things are the fault of the music labels. they choose whether or not to make the individual songs available and I'm sure the pick the 30 seconds they want as a sample.

The samples are definitally not always the first 30 seconds, so it isn't Apples fault.

As for the long songs being more than a buck, it's up to the label. What if a CD was just two 20 minute tracks? Should it be $1.98? That's not really fair.

spiky_dog · Feb 28, 2005, 09:33 AM

i'm not sure who dictates whether you can buy a song or only the album, but i assume it's the record label. they hold all the cards. apple is more or less at their whim.

and, as for the previews, that's an unfortunate aftereffect of having them generated automatically. with such a large library of tracks it would be unreasonable for a human to set the start points manually when creating each preview. i bet if you write to the powers that be complaining about the songs in question some one will fix the previews.

wataru · Feb 28, 2005, 09:36 AM

Oh good, now we get to rehash the same bitching that happened when iTMS first came out...

As a general rule, songs longer than 7 minutes are album-only. If that is not the case, then that is because that particular record company decided to be nice to you.

Your complaint about bad previews is certainly justified. But complaining to us won't help. Send feedback to Apple.

gumby5647 · Feb 28, 2005, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by wataru:

As a general rule, songs longer than 7 minutes are album-only. If that is not the case, then that is because that particular record company decided to be nice to you.

I see your point. But i've had really good luck getting a lot of songs via iTMS that are well over 7 mins long.
An American in Paris - 18:29
El Salon Mexico - 11:34
Rhapsody in Blue - 13:44 (a REAAAALY good version i might add)
La Mer movments I, II, II - 8:33, 6:14, and 7:55 (not my favorite version, but it'll do)

wataru · Feb 28, 2005, 09:51 AM

Me too. Most of Miles Davis's "Bitches Brew" is well over 7 minutes, but can be purchased individually. Still, that is the exception, not the rule.

ort888 · Feb 28, 2005, 09:56 AM

I'm pretty sure that the labels are responsible for picking what part of the song gets previewed. I know that some songs on there are definitally not just the first 30 seconds.

Apple probably tells them that if they don't send a sample, then they get stuck with the first 30 seconds. How could Apple possibly go through every song and decide what the best sample to use is? They can't.

If the label doesn't care, or have the time, than it's their fault.

Stradlater · Feb 28, 2005, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by gumby5647:
Rhapsody in Blue - 13:44 (a REAAAALY good version i might add)

Really? Who's performing? I was looking for a good version on iTunes awhile ago but most respectable versions were, indeed, "Album-Only."

memory-minus · Feb 28, 2005, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by ort888:
I'm pretty sure that the labels are responsible for picking what part of the song gets previewed. I know that some songs on there are definitally not just the first 30 seconds.

Apple probably tells them that if they don't send a sample, then they get stuck with the first 30 seconds. How could Apple possibly go through every song and decide what the best sample to use is? They can't.

If the label doesn't care, or have the time, than it's their fault.

The software that that labels use to upload their music to the iTMS has a field called "Preview start" (something to that effect) and the default is 0, or the beginning of the song. If you put 30 in this field, the preview is from the 30 second mark to 1 minute, etc. The preview is entirely the responsibility of the record labels.

gumby5647 · Feb 28, 2005, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by Stradlater:
Really? Who's performing? I was looking for a good version on iTunes awhile ago but most respectable versions were, indeed, "Album-Only."

I have the version from the album "The Essential George Gershwin" track number 17.

I dunno, I thought it was a pretty good version. But I haven't listened to many others to compare too.

Stradlater · Feb 28, 2005, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by gumby5647:
I have the version from the album "The Essential George Gershwin" track number 17.

I dunno, I thought it was a pretty good version. But I haven't listened to many others to compare too.

But who's performing? What pianist and what backing orchestra?

A track from a best-of album makes me wonder, though...

gumby5647 · Feb 28, 2005, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by Stradlater:
But who's performing? What pianist and what backing orchestra?

A track from a best-of album makes me wonder, though...

I would assume that the pianist is George Gershwin....I don't know what backing orchestra. Doesn't say....

Stradlater · Feb 28, 2005, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by gumby5647:
I would assume that the pianist is George Gershwin....I don't know what backing orchestra. Doesn't say....

George Gershwin died in 1930s, is the recording really that old (or old-sounding)? I wasn't even aware that Gershwin himself had a recorded performance of the tune.

gumby5647 · Feb 28, 2005, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by Stradlater:
George Gershwin died in 1930s, is the recording really that old (or old-sounding)? I wasn't even aware that Gershwin himself had a recorded performance of the tune.

I don't know man....go look on iTMS and see for yourself...

wdlove · Feb 28, 2005, 10:48 AM

Overall I'm very happy with iTMS.

Stradlater · 03:51 PM

edit: I'm sick as a dog and irritable as a rottweiler; sorry

Oneota · Feb 28, 2005, 03:34 PM

Another factor is that some of these longer tracks are from Partial Albums, where Apple is unable to sell you the complete album. In that case, the only thing they can do is sell you individual tracks, which makes 'em all eligible for the Free Song deal, regardless of length.

Oh, and the best Rhapsody in Blue I've seen is with Jeffrey Siegel at the piano with Leonard Slatkin conducting the St. Louis Symphony. Don't know if it's on iTMS or not, though.

(The one the topic starter mentioned is this one, though.)

MacMan4000 · Feb 28, 2005, 03:46 PM

The other day I found nudity in a music video in iTMS... bragging rights to the first person to find it.

Oneota · Feb 28, 2005, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by Stradlater:
I wasn't even aware that Gershwin himself had a recorded performance of the tune.

He doesn't, per se, but someone did figure out a way to fake it.

Gershwin had created some piano rolls of him playing several of his pieces. What some people were able to do was to convert these piano rolls to Standard MIDI files, and they constructed some sort of device which was essentially 88 little fingers and a fake foot that they could then roll up to any 'ol piano. They rigged this thing to the best Steinway they could find (or maybe it was a Yamaha, I forget), and recorded the performance that came out of it.

So, in a from-beyond-the-grave sort of way, there is a Gershwin Plays Gershwin recording out there that sounds pretty decent.

Volume 1
Volume 2

(Not on iTMS, either)

Stradlater · Feb 28, 2005, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by Oneota:
Gershwin Plays Gershwin

Cool; thanks for the links!

wataru · Feb 28, 2005, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by Oneota:
He doesn't, per se, but someone did figure out a way to fake it.

Gershwin had created some piano rolls of him playing several of his pieces. What some people were able to do was to convert these piano rolls to Standard MIDI files, and they constructed some sort of device which was essentially 88 little fingers and a fake foot that they could then roll up to any 'ol piano. They rigged this thing to the best Steinway they could find (or maybe it was a Yamaha, I forget), and recorded the performance that came out of it.

So, in a from-beyond-the-grave sort of way, there is a Gershwin Plays Gershwin recording out there that sounds pretty decent.

I don't know anything about Gershwin, but that just blew my mind

sugar_coated · Feb 28, 2005, 09:27 PM

Caveat emptor.

Oneota · Feb 28, 2005, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by wataru:
I don't know anything about Gershwin, but that just blew my mind

Yah; cool, neh? I scrounged up a little more information on the process they used. Details here.