[mitchell_pgh]

If you had a job where you used a Mac, would you consider taking a job where they used PCs for a considerable bump in pay (say 25%). I'm kind of in that situation. The thought of using a Dell makes me ILL, but the thought of additional money etc. is VERY appealing to me (compounded by a generally better job)

REAL QUESTION At what amount of an increase in pay would you consider moving from a Mac environment to a PC environment for your 9/5 job?

$2000... $5000... $7500... $10,000?

[Oneota]

I manage an almost all (96-98%) Mac environment of 1000+ machines & 4600+ users, and I would need a considerable raise to deal with the crap that the PC environment would foist on my job. By considerable, I mean I'd want at least 20K more than I'm getting now with full medical (including eye care and a better dental plan than I've got now).

Windows just inflicts so many headaches on an IT staff, it's not worth it for less than that.

Of course, there's just 2 of us making up the IT department at my current institution. If we went all-PC, we'd surely need to hire a few more people.

[Krusty]

Honestly, I wouldn't base a job decision on that so much. I might take a few grand cut to be able to work on a Mac instead of a PC at work ... but it wouldn't really be an enormous factor unless the jobs were extremely similar otherwise.

Having said that, I have a tightly clamped-down PC for my work machine at my new job. This is the first time in my life that I hate my computer. I don't even have admin priveleges to install something other than IE (C'mon .. they want security but force us into using the most insecure browser on the planet ??). At least at my last PC-using job (software developer), I could do whatever I pleased with my machine. It wasn't uncommon to see me (and several other programmers) walking out the front door on Friday with our machines in our arms so we could work at home.

[SVass]

It depends on the job. If I was required to use only Word and Excel, it wouldn't make any difference what my computer was. If I was using my work computer to do my home genealogy tasks, then I would be upset as my software doesn't run on a pc. sam

[mitchell_pgh]

I'm a "jack of all trades" type. Media coordination, logistics, "amateur graphic designer", production coordinator, media guy.

Perhaps a better question for many would be, how much of a salary decrease would you be willing to take to work on a Mac (if you work on Windows at work)

I'm guessing not many people would jump at the thought of losing money... which I would essentially be doing if I didn't make the move.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by SVass:
It depends on the job.

For the sake of this argument, think of it as the exact same job... and you job isn't a graphic designer or an network admin.

[Randman]

It would depend on the work. I took a job and found it was mainly on peecees after Macs most of my life, it was a disappointment. Luckily the entire job has been a disappointment and I'm looking elsewhere.

I guess the questions you have to ask yourself is a) how bad do you need the money? b) is the job an advancement or just more money? c) will working on peecees cause you more stress and if so, how much? d) can you talk your wife into letting you buy a new Mac, maybe a laptop with the extra cash to ease the pain?

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by Randman:
It would depend on the work. I took a job and found it was mainly on peecees after Macs most of my life, it was a disappointment. Luckily the entire job has been a disappointment and I'm looking elsewhere.

I guess the questions you have to ask yourself is a) how bad do you need the money? b) is the job an advancement or just more money? c) will working on peecees cause you more stress and if so, how much? d) can you talk your wife into letting you buy a new Mac, maybe a laptop with the extra cash to ease the pain?

Hmmm... well, to answer your question with my situation, the money is enough to go "ugh... I would be a fool not to" [five digit increase]

Maybe I'll actually get more work done!?

[hayesk]

I'm considering the opposite - moving to a Mac job for less money. (A lot less).

I look at it this way. We use money to buy two types of things - things we want, and things we need. To me, a job that I actually enjoy is the same as buying something I want, since it makes me happy. I would defintely trade for that as long as I can pay for the necessities (mortgage, food, internet, etc.).

So, going the other way, if you want the money to buy something that would bring you more enjoyment than you would lose by having to use a PC, then go for it. But don't do it just because "it pays a bunch more". Is a PowerMac G5 or a plasma TV worth being miserable for 8 hours a day, five days a week?

[Randman]

Well, you can use FireFox, which is better than IE. Haven't heard much about that side, but there is Konfabulator for Windows.
And with .Mac, you have access to your Mac's Safari bookmarks, your address book and if you're running XP, you can have access to your iDisk.

But you should ask yourself, would you take the job if peecees weren't used and for what salary. A big increase in salary sounds nice but will you have more taxes and more headaches from using peecees? For more stress and less job satisfaction, it's not worth it.
But if it's a good move to make professionally, consider biting the bullet. Get a PowerBook 12 or iBook to take to work with you.

[Macola]

If your new job doesn't require you to use PCs for design/creative work, then it really shouldn't make much difference. The last corporate job I had was in a PC-only environment. I convinced the CEO to purchase the first Mac and later ended up heading up a full corporate communications department (all Macs). I eventually quit the job to start my own business, but that's another story.

If your PC is well-maintained, and you're just using Office, e-mail, and web browsing, it's not that bad. I would never use a PC for creative work, though.

[effgee]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
...REAL QUESTION At what amount of an increase in pay would you consider moving from a Mac environment to a PC environment for your 9/5 job? ...

Personally, I wouldn't - in one job a couple years back, I was given an HP laptop when I started. The official reason was "so you can be more compatible with the strategists and the project managers". The actual reason turned out to be that the sys admins (there were two) were nothing but your average, MS-certified Windows zealots who didn't know the first thing about Macs.

I tried (I really did!) working with that piece of **** for four weeks, then gave it back and told 'em to order me a Powerbook. Of course they refused but I just left the HP on their desk and that same afternoon, I went out and bought me a new Powerbook (I needed one anyway - perfect excuse).

After bringing that to work for a week or two they caved and ordered me an "official" company-owned Powerbook for the office.

Unless you work in an industry where you need to be able to work with specific Windows-only software, there's no reason why you should be forced to switch.

Alas, my advice - take the job and then get yourself a Mac. The pay increase should easily make up for the cost of your own Powerbook, no?

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by Randman:
Well, you can use FireFox, which is better than IE. Haven't heard much about that side, but there is Konfabulator for Windows.
And with .Mac, you have access to your Mac's Safari bookmarks, your address book and if you're running XP, you can have access to your iDisk.

But you should ask yourself, would you take the job if peecees weren't used and for what salary. A big increase in salary sounds nice but will you have more taxes and more headaches from using peecees? For more stress and less job satisfaction, it's not worth it.
But if it's a good move to make professionally, consider biting the bullet. Get a PowerBook 12 or iBook to take to work with you.

Ugh... using a $5 keyboard and a $3 mouse... virus software... it's going to be interesting. For me, the job is a major bump [career and pay wise], but the Mac thing has me a little nervous.

I think the Mac really makes me very efficient..

[effgee]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
... using a $5 keyboard and a $3 mouse...

Papapapap ... bring your own wired/wireless Apple keyboard. I'm typing this post on my Apple BT keyboard hooked up to my XPee box. Same goes for your (multi-button) mouse, of course.

[xi_hyperon]

When considering a new job, of course pay is a factor, and for me, the choice of platform is as well. But those are only two factors of many that I would look at, so in short, it would depend on the overall picture.

If I could do the same thing I do now, in a location I like, have same or more responsibilities, and work with a creative and fun team, *and* in addition get paid more, then sure, I would consider it. Then, once I'm in for awhile, I'd authorize myself to get a Powerbook and shelve the PC.

[typoon]

I work in an all PC environment at work. I have the only Mac in the office because they let me bring my powerbook to work and have it on my desk. I use my Powerbook for everything but work stuff. If I was stuck on a PC for 8 hours a day Without using my Mac I think I would go nuts. You could just take the job stress out at work for the money then go home and spend at the very least an hour on your stress release (aka your Mac). After doing windows support at work if I don't have my powerbook I HAVE to spend at least an hour on my Mac just to relieve the stress. Sometimes it makes me wonder if it's worth it though having to deal with PC's.

IMO having to deal with PC's 8 hours a day with no Mac in sight is not worth almost any amount in my book. Then again if the right number came up I might consider it. I know that I decided to stay where I am a few years back for 2 reasons. Even though I am probably not making as much as I could have. 1. They let me have my Mac with me and 2. I don't think I could have dealt with the stress of dealing with a PC all day.

[sworthy]

1. take new job, make >$10,000 extra
2. buy top of the line powermac -- have a good $6,000 left over
3. All other extra money in the future is a bonus

What specific apps are you running btw?

[jasonsRX7]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
[B]Perhaps a better question for many would be, how much of a salary decrease would you be willing to take to work on a Mac (if you work on Windows at work)

I administer a network of around 200 windows desktops and 8 NT4/2k servers. I'd take as much as a 10% paycut to work in an all or mostly mac environment. In fact, I'm preparing data for a proposal to migrate from our NT4 domain to OpenDirectory on 10.4 server (once available) and Xserves. I've been given an eval copy of 10.3 server which I installed on a spare G3 that I have. I know that it would fit perfectly into our environment, and would save us a lot in CALs. If the proposal is turned down, I'll be extremely disappointed. As much as I like my job and position, I'd start looking around.

[typoon]

Originally posted by jasonsRX7:
I administer a network of around 200 windows desktops and 8 NT4/2k servers. I'd take as much as a 10% paycut to work in an all or mostly mac environment. In fact, I'm preparing data for a proposal to migrate from our NT4 domain to OpenDirectory on 10.4 server (once available) and Xserves. I've been given an eval copy of 10.3 server which I installed on a spare G3 that I have. I know that it would fit perfectly into our environment, and would save us a lot in CALs. If the proposal is turned down, I'll be extremely disappointed. As much as I like my job and position, I'd start looking around.

If you can come up with monetary numbers they would like that. Especially if you can show cost savings over a similar windows setup. The would like that. If they then don't go with the Mac then I would definitely start looking.

[mitchell_pgh]

I'm actually thinking about taking my vacation bonus (I have a week of vacation that will become a flat check when I resign) and turning it in to a PowerBook. But to be honest, the company should really pay for my computer. Perhaps I'll push for it while I'm getting in the groove of things.

I'm sure I can argue "we will be able to save at least $4000 in the first year if we buy this $4000 setup.

[ManOfSteal]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
$2000... $5000... $7500... $10,000...$Eleventy Billion®?

Fixed.

[legacyb4]

I semi-agree. You are considering this job because you are looking to get ahead either financially or career-wise. I would think that whether you use a Mac or PC should rank pretty low on the priority scale; I would think that whether the company provides good benefits, has a good working environment (clean, well-lit, etc.) and how the staff there are would be more critical factors.

End result is that for work, it is a tool and nothing more. You won't (or shouldn't be, at least) doing a ton of personal stuff on it anyway, so why worry too much about it?

Originally posted by xi_hyperon:
When considering a new job, of course pay is a factor, and for me, the choice of platform is as well. But those are only two factors of many that I would look at, so in short, it would depend on the overall picture.

[the_glassman]

It's all about da money! Having to use a PC during work is a sad reality for a lot of people, that's why we have Mac's to come home to!

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by the_glassman:
It's all about da money! Having to use a PC during work is a sad reality for a lot of people, that's why we have Mac's to come home to!

Maybe because I enjoy the Mac I'll actually become more productive at work.

I don't think I could shame this forum with a IE 6 browser.

[typoon]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Maybe because I enjoy the Mac I'll actually become more productive at work.

I don't think I could shame this forum with a IE 6 browser.

That's why I use Firefox when I'm at work to visit these forums when on my PC at work.

[mitchell_pgh]

UPDATE: I just walked the plank of the "U.S.S. Mac" and jumped in to the world of Windows.

Wish me luck.

[effgee]

Good luck.

You'll need it.

[d0ubled0wn]

Let's face it, the many problems Windows has creates more jobs in IT than would a Mac shop. Therefore it's good for our economy.

I wouldn't take a pay cut to work on a Mac. Certainly, it would make my job more enjoyable and that's worth something, but I'd rather keep the $$. I do most of my work on a mainframe anyhow, my pc is just a glorified 3270 emulator.

Hope things work out for you in your new job Mitch.

[sugar_coated]

I will toss a coin and take the PC job for a 25 pc increase.

[ManOfSteal]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
UPDATE: I just walked the plank of the "U.S.S. Mac" and jumped in to the world of Windows.

Wish me luck.

This will go down as the single biggest mistake you have ever made. What were you thinking? Oh wait, you weren't!

(this latest sarcastic remark has been brought to you by ManOfSteal...Congrats!)

[effgee]

Originally posted by ManOfSteal:
This will go down as the single biggest mistake you have ever made. ...

And something like that coming from a retired baseball player - wow.

[ManOfSteal]

Originally posted by effgee:
And something like that coming from a retired baseball player - wow.

Only "semi-retired" by the way...

[mitchell_pgh]

For the record, I'm going to be picking up a PowerBook here in the next month to compensate. First I'll try to get them to buy a Mac, but if that doesn't seem like it's working, I'll just pick one up.

It's a much cooler company and very open to me bringing in new concepts etc. I'm sure they will consider picking up a Mac especially when I showcase how much they can save.

[effgee]

Good thinking!

[d0ubled0wn]

I wouldn't go in trying to change their corporate culture, at least not on the first day. You may run into Wintel zealots who might feel threatened when you start spouting Mac goodness.

[Randman]

Originally posted by d0ubled0wn:
I wouldn't go in trying to change their corporate culture, at least not on the first day. You may run into Wintel zealots who might feel threatened when you start spouting Mac goodness.

I would. Let 'em know what they're heading into (but let them buy you lunch on the first day).

[mitchell_pgh]

UPDATE: I’ve been on the job for almost a month now and Windows is driving me crazy. I’m still holding out for a Mac and they are considering it.

Windows: It stinks. The GUI is horrible! It feels like I'm drunk and wearing heavy gloves every time I use it. I can’t think of one good thing to say about it other than it doesn’t crash (not that my Mac crashes much).

Outlook: I’m in a heavy Outlook office and will be honest, Outlook isn’t a bad program if you just accept it. I like the calendaring, room reservation, etc. etc. I wish Apple had something like it with iCal/Mail/etc. I’m actually impressed with how well it works. I still feel distanced from my email, but I blame that on the general GUI of Windows, not the program.

I like seeing graphics that are embeded in my email.

PowerPoint: Ugh... It’s bad enough on a Mac. On a PC, they look even worse. I was able to borrow a Mac from a friend and blew them away with a Keynote presentation. I think using Keynote actually HURT because I kept getting “how did you do that?” questions.

I’ll keep you posted.

[budster101]

Tell them you'll use your Mac...

BTW: Any advice on fixing up a Windows machine that suddenly has slowed down? I have a friend who wants me to tweak his machine... runs reallllly slow for some sudden reason. Any thoughts?

[effgee]

Oi mitchell - at least you're still alive. That's more than any of us would have expected.

Originally Posted by budster101

... Any advice on fixing up a Windows machine that suddenly has slowed down? I have a friend who wants me to tweak his machine... runs reallllly slow for some sudden reason. Any thoughts?

1. defragment hd
2. check thoroughly for malware (spybot search & destroy, ad-aware, cwshredder)
3. check for startup items / new background processes - printer-, sound card drivers etc. sometimes install a crapload of useless **** that gobbles up resources
4. clean out system registry (either manually or using a utlity like ace utilities, registry mechanic, etc.)

[budster101]

Check!
Most of those I have considered, but didn't think of the registry.

Was searching Windows Forums. All they talk about are their problems and how to fix them. LOL.
What a joke.

We talk about everything but...

[Krusty]

For slowdowns, the first thing I'd do is Ctrl+Alt+Delete and view currently running processes in the Task Manager. A friend of mine had a similar problem and I found about a dozen hidden processes running (that had all apparently been spawned from a single site that her son had visited that put an active trojan on her machine that downloaded several other processes that were all running at once).

[ghporter]

The biggest problem ANYONE has with Windows is that they run it on an underpowered machine with too much crap going on in the background. It can be very responsive when run with the right resources.

IT folks have to deal with something in the Windows world that Mac folks don't: idiot users who actually believe that they can do ANYTHING on the computer at work. First off it ain't their computer! They still want to add chat programs, BitTorrent, newsstreamers, "Weather Bug" virusware, and naughty screen savers and wall paper. IT shops lock down Windows systems to defend them as much from the users as from the outside!

That HP laptop you got was the major crap in your situation, effgee. They just don't "get it," and it looks like they never will; they bought Compaq, didn't they? My Dell Inspiron 8200 runs XP great, and being the paranoid I am, it's locked down pretty hard. It has the resources it needs to do the job, and I don't have all sorts of crap in the background slowing it down.

Yes, I come from a PC background, but that's not relevant. I've written I don't know how many lines of code in school, tweaked no telling how many systems for myself and others on the job, solved problems (mostly user-induced) for literally hundreds of people, and absolutely NONE of that was part of my job. It is not about the platform on the job, it's about getting the job done. If the machine they give you isn't good enough to do the job, show them why and suggest an alternative. And remember that the purchase price of any computer is only a fraction of the lifetime cost, even if that computer never has a single problem.

Also keep in mind that some jobs are more amenable to one computing platform than another (though newer software is blurring the distinctions). My mother's art department used Macs exclusively-but the copy writers all used PCs. Who cares what word processor they used? Who cares about anyof it if the tools do the job?

Think about what you're all saying. It's like you're considering how much more money you should ask for to work with someone of a different religion. It's just WORK for pity's sake! Put in your time, do the job, then go home and play on a nice computer. While it's something that tends to just "happen" as you learn skills to do a job, it's never a good thing to identify yourself totally with that job. Flexibility is far more important than esoteric skills when it comes down to getting jobs done.

[Buckaroo]

Originally Posted by Oneota

I manage an almost all (96-98%) Mac environment of 1000+ machines & 4600+ users, and I would need a considerable raise to deal with the crap that the PC environment would foist on my job. By considerable, I mean I'd want at least 20K more than I'm getting now with full medical (including eye care and a better dental plan than I've got now).

Windows just inflicts so many headaches on an IT staff, it's not worth it for less than that.

Of course, there's just 2 of us making up the IT department at my current institution. If we went all-PC, we'd surely need to hire a few more people.

Your thinking is all wrong. You will need atleast 100 people working under you to support all those Window Boxes. This will be one heck of a promotion for you to a very high level managment position.

[Oneota]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo

Your thinking is all wrong. You will need atleast 100 people working under you to support all those Window Boxes. This will be one heck of a promotion for you to a very high level managment position.

Heh...a promotion which hopefully I'll never have. If my school switches to PCs, they do it without me.