[Apple Pro Underwear]

by John Lennon

care to explain??

[JohnSmithXTREME]

this thread is racist

[the_glassman]

True Dat

[zizban]

Yo don't dissing my homies

[Apple Pro Underwear]

I bought John Lennon's acoustic CD yesterday

listening to:

Well Well Well
Working Class Hero
Imagine
Real Love

and then...

"Woman is the ****** of the World" comes on and I am quite bewildered. He doesn't really explain in the song what da dilly he's talking about.

[zigzag]

Women = oppressed etc. Bear in mind that it was 1972.

[AppleOptionFour]

How long before this one is locked?

[ghporter]

In before the lock!

Zigzag has nailed it. Lennon was expressing the concept that no matter who is in power, women are oppressed. And as Zigzag said, it was 1972. We've actually taken baby steps (in some places) since then to correct that state of affairs.

[demograph68]

Originally posted by JohnSmithXTREME:
this thread is racist

In before Zimphire pic™

[Sealobo]

Man is the ****** of the World also makes sense to me.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by demograph68:
In before Zimphire pic™

[ManOfSteal]

ManOfLock.™

[Apple Pro Underwear]

why should this be locked?

interesting topic, why in the world would this be lockinated? this is the year 2005, women's issues are no longer an issue.

[ManOfSteal]

Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:

GAME ON!

[lavar78]

Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
He doesn't really explain in the song what da dilly he's talking about.

Either that acoustic version has a bunch of words left out or you need to listen to it again.

[Psychonaut]

I had only the slightest hope that there'd be some intelligent and mature discussion in this thread.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

Originally posted by Psychonaut:
I had only the slightest hope that there'd be some intelligent and mature discussion in this thread.

IMO

WITNOTW is not really true

the race that is getting the most heat these days is the middle eastern folk. then blacks still get discriminated a lot. but i think a white woman in this white world is not really getting cheated out of living a good life.

[lavar78]

Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
IMO

WITNOTW is not really true

the race that is getting the most heat these days is the middle eastern folk. then blacks still get discriminated a lot. but i think a white woman in this white world is not really getting cheated out of living a good life.

I think it bears repeating that, even though you apparently just heard it, the song is over 30 years old. Nevertheless, do you honestly believe women have truly equal rights? Do you think men (in general) see them as equals? Interesting.

[MilkmanDan]

Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
why should this be locked?

interesting topic, why in the world would this be lockinated? this is the year 2005, women's issues are no longer an issue.

Their wings are good....

[malvolio]

Originally posted by Sealobo:
Man is the ****** of the World also makes sense to me.

"If all men were brothers, would you want your sister to marry one?"

[olePigeon]

Reminds me of that Marilyn Manson song Irresponsible Hate Anthem:

I am so all-american, I'll sell you suicide
I am totalitarian, I've got abortions in my eyes
I hate the hater, I'd rape the raper
I am the animal who will not be himself
**** it

Hey victim, should I black your eyes again?
Hey victim,
You were the one who put the stick in my hand
I am the ism, my hate's a prism
let's jut kill everyone and let your god sort them out
**** it

Everybody's someone else's ******
I know you are so am I
I wasn't born with enough middle fingers
I don't need to choose a side
I better, better, better, better not say this
better, better, better, better not tell
I hate the hater, I'd rape the raper
I am the idiot who will not be himself
**** it

[V]

Sex + race = different

for all you ignorants.

[demograph68]

Originally posted by V:
Sex + race = different

for all you ignorants.

I did not know that.

[Twilly Spree]

Woman is the ****** of the world. Very true. Like a good ****** they are tolerated when they obey and serve. They are not supposed to have too much independant thought and should depend upon the men. Yes, this is a fitting description by the late John Lennon and it was supposed to shock people. Shock and awe.

Do I agree? No, I don't.

[Athens]

Originally posted by ghporter:
In before the lock!

Zigzag has nailed it. Lennon was expressing the concept that no matter who is in power, women are oppressed. And as Zigzag said, it was 1972. We've actually taken baby steps (in some places) since then to correct that state of affairs.

I dont think this should be locked its a valid question and thread he just picked a real bad title for it.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

Originally posted by lavar78:
I think it bears repeating that, even though you apparently just heard it, the song is over 30 years old. Nevertheless, do you honestly believe women have truly equal rights? Do you think men (in general) see them as equals? Interesting.

i think that while salaries are not equal and some other things, women get some other stuff too. like maternity leave. all in all, i think education is what frees women. once a woman chooses to educate herself to a college level at minimal she chooses a man who will treat her like an equal. she finds jobs that will do so all while putting herself in the right position.

thw classic woman stereotype where she's stuck barefoot and pregnant is a result of uneducation and her choosing that lifestyle.

i think women's rights are getting stronger everyyear but nothing compared to the discrimination blacks and other minorities get...

[lavar78]

Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
i think that while salaries are not equal and some other things, women get some other stuff too. like maternity leave. all in all, i think education is what frees women. once a woman chooses to educate herself to a college level at minimal she chooses a man who will treat her like an equal. she finds jobs that will do so all while putting herself in the right position.

thw classic woman stereotype where she's stuck barefoot and pregnant is a result of uneducation and her choosing that lifestyle.

Don't you think you're oversimplifying things a little? What about the role society plays? Boys and girls are socialized in ways that reverberate generations later: "Boys don't cry." "Don't get beat by a girl." "You're good... for a girl." "Stop being such a girl." "Girls don't do well in math." Even educated people hold on to some of those notions.

Maternity leave doesn't offset lower salaries.

i think women's rights are getting stronger everyyear but nothing compared to the discrimination blacks and other minorities get...

I don't think the point is that women are less discriminated against than minorities; I think the point is that they are still discriminated against and treated as less than equal by many. It has gotten better, but there's still a long way to go. Obviously, things were much worse 30 years ago.

[kemuri]

Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
why should this be locked?

oooooo, this thread took an interesting turn.

[chris v]

Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
i think that while salaries are not equal and some other things, women get some other stuff too. like maternity leave. all in all, i think education is what frees women. once a woman chooses to educate herself to a college level at minimal she chooses a man who will treat her like an equal. she finds jobs that will do so all while putting herself in the right position.

thw classic woman stereotype where she's stuck barefoot and pregnant is a result of uneducation and her choosing that lifestyle.

i think women's rights are getting stronger everyyear but nothing compared to the discrimination blacks and other minorities get...

Sure, in America.

The point of the song is, while countries everywhere have ethnic minorities that get treated as second-class citizens due to the color of their skin, or their religion, women, almost universally, are treated as second-class citizens. Look beyond our borders-- the song does say "world", and as far as the N-word goes, "Woman is the Second-Class Citizen of the World" doesn't have the same visceral impact as a song title, now does it?

Racism and sexism suck, but these are problems that can't be euphemised away.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

Originally posted by chris v:
Sure, in America.

The point of the song is, while countries everywhere have ethnic minorities that get treated as second-class citizens due to the color of their skin, or their religion, women, almost universally, are treated as second-class citizens. Look beyond our borders-- the song does say "world", and as far as the N-word goes, "Woman is the Second-Class Citizen of the World" doesn't have the same visceral impact as a song title, now does it?

Racism and sexism suck, but these are problems that can't be euphemised away.

ok you got me there. good point.

however,

last year i was in a woman hating mood...

this year i am in a apathetic woman mood...

[ReggieX]

I thought Yoko wrote that, not John.

[dencamp]

Originally posted by ReggieX:
I thought Yoko wrote that, not John.

DINGDINGDING

co-wrote and made the comment to john that inspired the song.

[wdlove]

Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
why should this be locked?

Lovely young ladies.

Otherwise

[kemuri]

Ono/Lennon - the original gangsta' rappers.


P.S. Looks like Arabs are the new Niggahs of today.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

by the way, that album kicks ass



anybody know if the Beatles ever made an acoustic album or something?

[budster101]

mmmmm. wings.

[TubaMuffins]

a lot of businesses have a paternity leave too, but it just doesn't get advertised. As for women receiving lower salaries than men, that's a good thing becuase higher salaries is all we have left. If they made as much as us, they would have no need for us we'd be doomed.

Disclaimer: meant to be taken in a joking fashion even though i have been in a woman-hating mood as of late. can't live with them, cant live without them

but th discussion about the song is true. 30 years ago, ****** was a perfectly acceptable word, although i find it odd that as of late it isn't being bleeped out on TV anymore.

[Oisín]

Originally posted by TubaMuffins:
a lot of businesses have a paternity leave too, but it just doesn't get advertised.

And outside the US, many countries have 'state-level' paternity leave as well.



A side question: If woman is the ****** of the world, what is the ******?

[Nebagakid]

what kind of thread is this with only one picture featuring hooters girls?

[zigzag]

Originally posted by TubaMuffins:
30 years ago, ****** was a perfectly acceptable word, although i find it odd that as of late it isn't being bleeped out on TV anymore.

It wasn't really a perfectly acceptable word then. A lot of people used it in private, as they still do, but it wasn't considered appropriate in public, certainly not on TV. That's why Lennon/Ono used it for the song title - to get a rise out of people.

I think you hear it more often on TV today because it's one of those things that gets co-opted by the subject group - kinda like the word queer. But generally, it's still not considered appropriate unless you're a member of the subject group, because it still carries hostile connotations when used by someone outside the group.

[lavar78]

Originally posted by zigzag:
It wasn't really a perfectly acceptable word then. A lot of people used it in private, as they still do, but it wasn't considered appropriate in public, certainly not on TV. That's why Lennon/Ono used it for the song title - to get a rise out of people.

I think you hear it more often on TV today because it's one of those things that gets co-opted by the subject group - kinda like the word queer. But generally, it's still not considered appropriate unless you're a member of the subject group, because it still carries hostile connotations when used by someone outside the group.

... and there are plenty of people in the group who don't like or use it.

[Nebagakid]

I think by being Ono would raise eyebrows