[Athens]

http://www.mercerhr.com/

Overall Quality of Living – Ranking Base city: New York (=100)
[Rank 2005] [Rank 2004] [City] [Country] [Index 2005] [Index 2004]
[1] [1] [GENEVA] [Switzerland] [106.5] [106.5]
[1] [1] [ZURICH] [Switzerland] [106.5] [106.5]
[3] [3] [VANCOUVER] [Canada] [106] [106]
3 3 VIENNA Austria 106 106
5 5 FRANKFURT Germany 105.5 105
5 10 MUNICH Germany 105.5 104.5
5 12 DUSSELDORF Germany 105.5 104
8 5 AUCKLAND New Zealand 105 105
8 5 BERN Switzerland 105 105
8 5 COPENHAGEN Denmark 105 105
8 5 SYDNEY Australia 105 105
12 10 AMSTERDAM Netherlands 104.5 104.5
13 12 BRUSSELS Belgium 104 104
14 12 MELBOURNE Australia 103.5 104
14 15 BERLIN Germany 103.5 103.5
14 15 LUXEMBOURG Luxembourg 103.5 103.5
14 15 STOCKHOLM Sweden 103.5 103.5
14 15 TORONTO Canada 103.5 103.5
14 15 WELLINGTON New Zealand 103.5 103.5
20 20 OTTAWA Canada 103 103
20 20 PERTH Australia 103 103
22 20 NURNBERG Germany 102.5 103
22 23 DUBLIN Ireland 102.5 102.5
22 24 MONTREAL Canada 102.5 102
25 24 ADELAIDE Australia 102 102
25 24 CALGARY Canada 102 102
25 24 HAMBURG Germany 102 102
25 24 HELSINKI Finland 102 102
25 24 HONOLULU, HI United States 102 102
25 24 SAN FRANCISCO, CA United States 102 102
31 24 BRISBANE Australia 101.5 102
31 32 OSLO Norway 101.5 101.5
31 32 PARIS France 101.5 101.5
34 34 SINGAPORE Singapore 101 101
34 34 TOKYO Japan 101 101
36 36 LYON France 100.5 100.5
36 36 YOKOHAMA Japan 100.5 100.5
36 42 BOSTON, MA United States 100.5 99.5
39 36 LONDON United Kingdom 100 100.5
39 39 KOBE Japan 100 100
39 39 NEW YORK CITY, NY United States 100 100
42 39 MADRID Spain 99 100
42 42 PORTLAND, OR United States 99 99.5
42 45 BARCELONA Spain 99 98.5
42 52 WASHINGTON, DC United States 99 97.5
46 44 WINSTON SALEM, NC United States 98.5 99
46 45 LEXINGTON, KY United States 98.5 98.5
46 45 OSAKA Japan 98.5 98.5
46 45 PITTSBURGH, PA United States 98.5 98.5
46 45 SEATTLE, WA United States 98.5 98.5
51 50 CHICAGO, IL United States 98 98
51 50 MILAN Italy 98 98 53 52 LISBON Portugal 97.5 97.5
53 52 NAGOYA Japan 97.5 97.5
53 52 TSUKUBA Japan 97.5 97.5

[Mafia]

Originally posted by Athens:
5 5 FRANKFURT Germany 105.5 105

i'll be visiting here at the end of may. any good hot spots in or close to town i should visit. and of course my location is not on there.

[E's Lil Theorem]

I saw this a bit ago (a former roommate works for Mercer and worked on this project) and was kind of surprised that while NYC is the base city, California places like LA and San Diego are missing from the top 50 (though San Francisco is 25th).

[MacNStein]

They pick the US cities with the highest taxes. Why am I not surprised? No bias in that article, no sir.

[Athens]

Originally posted by E's Lil Theorem:
I saw this a bit ago (a former roommate works for Mercer and worked on this project) and was kind of surprised that while NYC is the base city, California places like LA and San Diego are missing from the top 50 (though San Francisco is 25th).

It looks at so many different things to make the list. Quality of air, crime, traffic, jobs, recreation, sports, weather, natural disaters, politics, medical care and so on.... New York since the mid 90's had come a LONG way from its 70, 80s image and is supose to be a very good city for it size. Its the baseline because thats where Mercer is based and its also one of the most famous modern cities too.

[Athens]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
They pick the US cities with the highest taxes. Why am I not surprised? No bias in that article, no sir.

Maybe the high taxes pay for safer cleaner streets, more recreation and so forth which is why they are higher on the list then other cities that have lower taxes and more city decay? thats a possibility isnt it

[turtle777]

So far, I have lived #1, #5 and #14.

-t

edit: made myself more clear

[brapper]

Originally posted by Athens:
http://www.mercerhr.com/

Overall Quality of Living – Ranking Base city: New York (=100)
[Rank 2005] [Rank 2004] [City] [Country] [Index 2005] [Index 2004]
[1] [1] [GENEVA] [Switzerland] [106.5] [106.5]

Whilst backpacking last summer, I spent three nights sleeping by lake Geneva. Absolutely gorgeous. I'd love to go back with some cash in my pocket next time, but I wouldn't trade those three nights for anything. What a place.

[Athens]

Originally posted by turtle777:


So far, I have done #1, #5 and #14.

-t

I live in #3 which was #1 for 6 years in a row, visited #25 Calgary and #46 Seattle. Im actually surprised that Seattle is so low. Vancouver and Seattle are very similar. Crime and garbage is worst in Seattle but still I would have expected it in the same area as Calgary.

Total Cities Making Top 50

Europe Totals: 26
America Totals: 16
Canada's Totals: 5 --- #3, #14, #20, #22, #25
USA Totals: 11 --- #25, #25, #26, #39, #42, #42, #46, #46, #46, #46, #51

[t6hawk]

Originally posted by Athens:
http://www.mercerhr.com/

[3] [3] [VANCOUVER] [Canada] [106] [106]

Vancouver rules

[MacNStein]

Originally posted by Athens:
Maybe the high taxes pay for safer cleaner streets, more recreation and so forth which is why they are higher on the list then other cities that have lower taxes and more city decay? thats a possibility isnt it

I doubt it... I've been to Pittsburg. Bleh.

Winston-Salem NC is nice. If I didn't live in Knoxville, it's one of the cities I'd consider.

[effgee]

Düsseldorf? #5? What a crock of shit.

[Athens]

Originally posted by effgee:


Düsseldorf? #5? What a crock of shit.

LOL think thats the first time ive seen you say a word like ****

[andreas_g4]

14 15 BERLIN Germany 103.5 103.5

I'm moving there in two days. Yipppiii!

[mitchell_pgh]

46 45 PITTSBURGH, PA United States 98.5 98.5

ha ha...

[wdlove]

At least my city made the list.

36 42 BOSTON, MA United States 100.5 99.5

[SSharon]

How the hell did Washington DC get on there? Crime here is terrible. Also, how did it beat my real home Chicago?

[turtle777]

Originally posted by andreas_g4:
14 15 BERLIN Germany 103.5 103.5

I'm moving there in two days. Yipppiii!

I envy you. Spent ten great years in Berlin. Awesome nightlife. Great pubs and bars. Nice clubs, phat music, cheap food... *sigh*

-t

[simonjames]

These contests are rigged - the city paying the highest bribe to the governing body always wins out. Here in Australia Melbourne touts itself as being the "most liveable" city because it has "won" so many of these type of awards. Doesn't explain why people are leaving it in their thousands and moving to Sydney or even further north.

I've been to many of these cities - all very nice but one of my criteria would be year long blue skies and mild, snow-free winters - most of the top ten would miss out immediately.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by simonjames:
These contests are rigged - the city paying the highest bribe to the governing body always wins out.

That can't be true. Berlin is # 14 and is totally broke, whereas New York comes in # 39 and has tons of money. Debunked.

-t

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally posted by SSharon:
How the hell did Washington DC get on there? Crime here is terrible. Also, how did it beat my real home Chicago?

Crime?!? Not nearly as bad as you think. Besides, you're out in College Park, anyway!

DC should be WAY down the list for its traffic problems. That is something you can relate to if you have to drive Route 1 to get to campus.

[tooki]

Or anywhere on 495, or any other road in DC or Montgomery county, or PG county, or NoVa, or... Heck, I was in a traffic jam (for blocks and blocks and blocks on NY Ave) on a recent Friday night at 12:30 in the morning. WTF?

tooki

[lavar78]

Well, it's not like traffic's great in Chicago...

[Athens]

traffic isnt great in a lot of those cities. Vancouver lost its number 1 position a few years ago now because of our traffic problems which isnt any where near as bad as other cities. There are other factors that go into this. Perhaps DC has lots of parks, decent air, good education, great medical coverage and care. Crime is just one stat the goes into the overall. For example there report on crimes, every Canadian city in the study came in under 20, yet on the overall only Calgary and Montéal sites past 20. Its a pitty that you have to buy the report to see the rest of the stats for every section. I wouldnt mind seeing which cities for example had the best traffic, best recreation, and so on.

[analogika]

Frankfurt before Berlin and Hamburg?

[andreas_g4]

Originally posted by turtle777:
I envy you. Spent ten great years in Berlin. Awesome nightlife. Great pubs and bars. Nice clubs, phat music, cheap food... *sigh*

-t

Yep, I'm really looking foreward to it. I'm 23 and my work/school will leave me enough spare time to enjoy the city and my life there. It's something you can't buy - being conscious of the time you can spend in your jung years!

How old were you during your Berlin time?

[effgee]

Originally posted by analogika:
Frankfurt before Berlin and Hamburg?

Uh, oh - wonder what Tetenal is gonna say to that



But you're right - the Äppelwoi alone should be grounds for disqualification from that list

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally posted by tooki:
Or anywhere on 495, or any other road in DC or Montgomery county, or PG county, or NoVa, or... Heck, I was in a traffic jam (for blocks and blocks and blocks on NY Ave) on a recent Friday night at 12:30 in the morning. WTF?

tooki

Spoke like a true "local". As to your Friday night traffic jam on NY Ave, I can guarantee it was everybody trying to get into Dream.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by andreas_g4:
Yep, I'm really looking foreward to it. I'm 23 and my work/school will leave me enough spare time to enjoy the city and my life there. It's something you can't buy - being conscious of the time you can spend in your jung years!

How old were you during your Berlin time?

The best years. 17-27.

-t

[turtle777]

Originally posted by analogika:
Frankfurt before Berlin and Hamburg?

Yeah. Made me laugh, too.
There is no inner city life at all, just business.
NOT a good city if you are young and out for fun.

Even Hamburg is better
But nothing comes close to Berlin. *sigh*

-t

[tooki]

Originally posted by dcmacdaddy:
Spoke like a true "local". As to your Friday night traffic jam on NY Ave, I can guarantee it was everybody trying to get into Dream.

Ah. I'm assuming that's a club.

I don't follow the DC club scene -- I can't be bothered to drive to or in DC. Besides, Baltimore clubs are nice and, uh, cozy... yeah, let's just call it that!

tooki

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally posted by tooki:
Ah. I'm assuming that's a club.

I don't follow the DC club scene -- I can't be bothered to drive to or in DC. Besides, Baltimore clubs are nice and, uh, cozy... yeah, let's just call it that!

tooki

Yeah, Dream is, and has been for a year or two now, the IT place to be in DC if you are Eurotrash or at least a wannabe.

The only clubs I go to in DC are music clubs: 9:30, Black Cat, Velvet Lounge, etc.

[ghporter]

I can't help but notice that these cities with the high "quality of living" ratings are also awfully expensive to live in. Now I think that there's a correlation here, and it isn't what you might think. Ok, maybe it is.

I think that the Mercer ratings are based on what people with lots of money think makes for a higher quality of living. It obviously can't include things like commute time (DC and much of NYC would be right out if that were the case), it can't include affordable housing, and it can't even include the quality of the city's infrastructure (note that much of NYC's physical infrastructure has been in a constant state of "fix, not upgrade" apparently since it was incorporated).

Would I LIKE to live in Bern, or Perth, or New York? Maybe. I'd sure like to visit such places. But I seriously doubt that the Mercer ratings are a really universally valid measure of such places.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by ghporter:
I can't help but notice that these cities with the high "quality of living" ratings are also awfully expensive to live in. Now I think that there's a correlation here, and it isn't what you might think. Ok, maybe it is.

True, but not for all.

I'd say that the best bang for the buck in the top 20 you get in Berlin - Germany. Comparitively cheap housing in former East Berlin, a lot of students, arts, underground culture. Affordable prices for food and drinks.

-t

[Deimos]

Adelaide made the list, jeez it must be rigged.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally posted by ghporter:
I can't help but notice that these cities with the high "quality of living" ratings are also awfully expensive to live in. Now I think that there's a correlation here, and it isn't what you might think. Ok, maybe it is.

I think that the Mercer ratings are based on what people with lots of money think makes for a higher quality of living. It obviously can't include things like commute time (DC and much of NYC would be right out if that were the case), it can't include affordable housing, and it can't even include the quality of the city's infrastructure (note that much of NYC's physical infrastructure has been in a constant state of "fix, not upgrade" apparently since it was incorporated).

Would I LIKE to live in Bern, or Perth, or New York? Maybe. I'd sure like to visit such places. But I seriously doubt that the Mercer ratings are a really universally valid measure of such places.

You're right about having, or needing, lots of money to live comfortably in big cities like DC or New York.

I live here, as opposed to the VA or MD suburbs, because I found a relatively affordable place and like my commute. I have lived in Arlington 4 or 5 years as well and that was really nice but it actually got to be more expensive than DC after a while.

[spacefreak]

Mercer Human Resources compiles these "rankings" based on what they feel are the most desireable places for high-powered corporate employees to live.

I'm sure rankings done by organizations focused on college-aged kids, or Christian folks, for example, would be different.

Many of these cities have low crime and low homeless rates because it is so damn cold there. I'm sure the North Pole blows Geneva and Vancouver's crime and pollution rates away, but that doesn't mean I'd ever want to live there.

I was reading this interesting article last week, and the bit about how Canadians can parrot their quality-of-life rankings in their sleep amused me, for I see and hear it all the time.

...even when Canada succeeds, it carries the whiff of failure. For nearly a decade, the country sat atop the United Nations quality-of-life index, a fact that Canadian schoolchildren could parrot in their sleep. When Canada dropped to eighth, just behind the United States, its collective psyche took a beating. The next year, Canada shot past us again, but not back to the top. The headline in Ontario's Windsor Star tells you all you need to know about Canadian triumphalism: "Cheers to us, we're No. 4."

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by E's Lil Theorem:
...was kind of surprised that... California places like LA and San Diego are missing from the top 50 (though San Francisco is 25th).

Much of this is rooted in the fact that LA and San Diego are warm-weather places. The populace tends to be much more active, resulting in more pollution, traffic, crime, etc.

[Athens]

Originally posted by turtle777:
True, but not for all.

I'd say that the best bang for the buck in the top 20 you get in Berlin - Germany. Comparitively cheap housing in former East Berlin, a lot of students, arts, underground culture. Affordable prices for food and drinks.

-t

You can get affordable housing in Vancouver, specially in the suburbs. 2 Bedroom Secondary suite which includes power and most time cable can be as low as 550 a month for something decent. IF you want to live right downtown older condos run you 660 a month, new ones with gyms and pools run you 900-1200 a month.

They do take traffic into account because it was traffic 4 years ago that nocked Vancouver from first. I wish we could get the stats of everything else because they do a break down list of the different catagories such as crime, traffic, recreation and so forth and rate each city on those seperate sections as well. The most livable is just the combined data from all those other stats.

[Athens]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Mercer Human Resources compiles these "rankings" based on what they feel are the most desireable places for high-powered corporate employees to live.

I'm sure rankings done by organizations focused on college-aged kids, or Christian folks, for example, would be different.

Many of these cities have low crime and low homeless rates because it is so damn cold there. I'm sure the North Pole blows Geneva and Vancouver's crime and pollution rates away, but that doesn't mean I'd ever want to live there.

I was reading this interesting article last week, and the bit about how Canadians can parrot their quality-of-life rankings in their sleep amused me, for I see and hear it all the time.

Vancouver is warmer and gets less snow then NJ! In fact Vancouvers winters are warmer then much of the north east US, mid west us as well. So I wouldnt use that argument. This last week we have had highs of 19 degress C and we had a week in Jan that was that high too. Our winter time average is just above freezing. And Vancouver does have a lot of homeless and crime well compared to Canadian average.

[E's Lil Theorem]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Much of this is rooted in the fact that LA and San Diego are warm-weather places. The populace tends to be much more active, resulting in more pollution, traffic, crime, etc.

The thing is I'm not sure exactly what Mercer is looking at. I wish we could see the stats they analyzed because when you consider things like traffic and homelessness, SF is no better than LA or San Diego. Crime isn't that low in SF either, though it's definitely lower than LA (not sure about SD).

Anyway, I asked my former roommate for a copy of the analysis they did, but not surprisingly, he declined

[Athens]

Originally posted by E's Lil Theorem:
The thing is I'm not sure exactly what Mercer is looking at. I wish we could see the stats they analyzed because when you consider things like traffic and homelessness, SF is no better than LA or San Diego. Crime isn't that low in SF either, though it's definitely lower than LA (not sure about SD).

Anyway, I asked my former roommate for a copy of the analysis they did, but not surprisingly, he declined

SF is high up for the same reason Vancouver is, the recreations and enviroment. SF is less polluted then other major US cities, and the people there enjoy a much more active life style because of the weather. If it wasent for Vancouvers enviroment we wouldnt be so high up. Im not totally sure about SF because while ive read up much about it i havent been there yet, but to use Vancouver as a example you have access to many great parks in the city. Great beaches in the summer, great hiking in the summer in the north shore mountains which is only a 15 to 30 min drive depending on where you live, wind surfing, good city events sports teams, many sport fields, and in the winter great sking snow boarding and still good hiking. There are many great lakes within a hours drive from vancouver for great camping, provincial parks are close by which puts into the pure wilderness. Lots of mountain bike trails. Vancouver is supose to be the healthiest city in North America and is 3rd for longest average life after two cities in Japan. One of the lowest or the lowest smoking rate in a city, lowest obease rate, very low cancer rate which is all attributed to the very active life styles of many who live hear. What has helped in those stats are the active people that move here for that reason. I myself is a lazy ass that dosent do much of any of that. The Air for a major city is actually very clean even though our air gets trapped from the mountains. People that visit my hotel from SF say its very similar to Vancouver for the active life style. If Toronto didn't get a deep freeze every winter it would be close to number 1. If they looked only at crime and traffic Vancouver would be far below other Canadian cities. Vancouver is the capital of the english speaking world for car theifts, with a average of 30 000 stolen a year :O and because of the drugs vancouvers break in enters are high. Vancouvers homeless is bad too because many Canadian street people migrate to vancouver for the winter because its warmer, and others migrate to vancouver for pan handling because of the tourist. So it looks worse then it should be. Not to mention Vancouver is also one of the most expensive places in North America to buy a home specially in the nice areas as is the same case with SF. Soon enough the news companies will be relasing the stats on crime and stuff as they usally buy the reports.

[Spliff]

Originally posted by Athens:
You can get affordable housing in Vancouver, specially in the suburbs.

Yeah, that may be the case but who wants to live in the suburbs around Vancouver. Vancouver has got some of the most depressing suburbs around. All those friggin' strip malls and super stores. . . ack!

Personally, I like suburb's like Boston's Concord and Lexington (make fun of me all you want).

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by dcmacdaddy:
Yeah, Dream is, and has been for a year or two now, the IT place to be in DC if you are Eurotrash or at least a wannabe.

The only clubs I go to in DC are music clubs: 9:30, Black Cat, Velvet Lounge, etc.

I'm more of an 18th street lounge person myself...

[Athens]

Originally posted by Spliff:
Yeah, that may be the case but who wants to live in the suburbs around Vancouver. Vancouver has got some of the most depressing suburbs around. All those friggin' strip malls and super stores. . . ack!

Personally, I like suburb's like Boston's Concord and Lexington (make fun of me all you want).

You can still get afforable housing in Vancouver city too, East Vancouver is not to bad priced, and I dont mean east hastings.

Marpole, Renfrew, Killarney and there are areas in Grandview woodlands that are ok too. Granted most ppl want to live i the west end, Point Grey, Kits, Fairview, Arbutus, Dunbar and Kerrisdale which are the unafforable areas. And not all of the Suburbs are blah, Burnaby and Coquitlam are good, I find only richmond and surrey and delta to be really blah

[turtle777]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I'm more of an 18th street lounge person myself...

-t

[rambo47]

Didn't Bahgdad make the list? WTF?!

[tooki]

Originally posted by ghporter:
I can't help but notice that these cities with the high "quality of living" ratings are also awfully expensive to live in. Now I think that there's a correlation here, and it isn't what you might think. Ok, maybe it is.

Yes... but:

What a lot of the cost-of-living metrics often ignore is the wages. For example, a minimum-wage earner in any large city in the U.S. is going to have a very low standard of living. Contrast that with a minimum-wage earner in Geneva or Zurich, who will be able to live a squarely middle-class lifestyle. Yes, Zurich and Geneva are expensive cities, but the wages more than make up for it.

tooki

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by Athens:
Vancouver is warmer and gets less snow then NJ! In fact Vancouvers winters are warmer then much of the north east US, mid west us as well. So I wouldnt use that argument.

I was comparing Vancouver and others to WARM-weather cities. By no means did I even try to infer that NJ was warm-weathered.

As a matter of fact, I am so damn sick of this winter that I am contemplating a move to somewhere warmer.

[MacMan4000]

Lexington made the list?! Not Louisville?! Crazy...