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MacNStein · Mar 23, 2005, 09:36 AM

So, my cousin is buying Playboy (and some Penthouse) mags for his 13 y/o son, saying it's for his sexual education (even lets him hang the centerfolds on his bedroom walls). This is the same cousin who is a sex and porn addict (goes to counseling for it). He and his wife are divorced, due to consequences of said problems, and I think he's only doing it to get into his kid's good graces. However, I can't help but feel that the kid's just a bit too young for such stuff, and politely told him so. He just kinda shrugged and said "boys will be boys, it's what he wants".

Do you think this is proper or healthy behavior? Am I just overreacting?

Apple Pro Underwear · Mar 23, 2005, 09:41 AM

i had acquired a issue of "Swank" by that age and nothing really bad has happened to me

teaching your kids morals and etc at the same time is probably smart.

next time you see the kid, talk with him and see if he's a f*cked up in any way. ask him if he has any "girlfriends" yet or if who his favorite actress is and see what he says

subego · Mar 23, 2005, 09:47 AM

Well, it all sounds pretty ridiculous. I don't think you're overreacting, but I also don't think there's anything you can do.

I'm certainly not anti-pornography, but I think it needs to be put in the proper context, especially for the young'uns.

Why do I sense this guy isn't going to be providing the proper context?

kmkkid · Mar 23, 2005, 09:47 AM

Children should learn to admire the human body from a young age. Helps them grow up quicker with hopefully a few more morals then we had - acting like the body was somehting to be hidden, thus creating perverted freaks and abusers.

In short, I don't think it can do any harm as long as it stays in his room, and he agknowledges that.

Chris

effgee · Mar 23, 2005, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
... Do you think this is proper or healthy behavior? Am I just overreacting?

Says the guy who lives with two chicks under one roof. (that is you, correct?)
</kidding>

Seriously, though - I for one think that Playboy alone is not a proper "sex education" for a 13 year old. While there's nothing wrong with the mag in and of itself (whatever floats one's boat), I do think that it should at best be a "secret" part (hiding that stuff from your parents is half the fun anyway) of a teenie's early years (as in: not late teens).

I would suspect that, unless the parents have already discussed the issue with their kid, Playboy alone might lead to some, uhm ... misconceptions about sexuality in general. In the best case the kid's in for a tiny shock when he finds out that most girls don't wear a DD cup. In the worst case, he'll turn out to be a major pr!ck once he starts going out with girls - women as objects and the whole shebang.

And/or he'll always feel inadequate being a "normal" teenie while his "dream chicks" are seemingly unattainable - in which case he'd turn out to be a repressed nutcase.

Call me old-fashioned but I still think that there's quite the difference between encountering nudity in its "natural" habitat (e.g., your family) and the kind of nudity being put on display in boobie mags such as Playboy, Penthouse et al. IMHO - a heathy mix of both is the perfect situation.

Probably not the most serious situation on the planet - the father sure seems a bit of a dim bulb and/or he doesn't really care about his kid.

deomacius · Mar 23, 2005, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
So, my cousin is buying Playboy (and some Penthouse) mags for his 13 y/o son, saying it's for his sexual education (even lets him hang the centerfolds on his bedroom walls). This is the same cousin who is a sex and porn addict (goes to counseling for it). He and his wife are divorced, due to consequences of said problems, and I think he's only doing it to get into his kid's good graces. However, I can't help but feel that the kid's just a bit too young for such stuff, and politely told him so. He just kinda shrugged and said "boys will be boys, it's what he wants".

Do you think this is proper or healthy behavior? Am I just overreacting?

I'd say it's not normal. I had seen Playboy by that age, but my folks and the adults around me at the time DID'NT condone it and let me know as much. I would also think that a kid being exposed to those magazines with a father who condones it will come to look at women as sex objects rather than human beings. Just something to consider.

buffalolee · Mar 23, 2005, 10:00 AM

I would be careful about this.

The you want to worry about is whether his son will start thinking about women as sexual objects. It is one thing to show as a teaching material, it is another to use it as posters on the walls of your bedroom.

SimeyTheLimey · Mar 23, 2005, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by buffalolee:
The you want to worry about is whether his son will start thinking about women as sexual objects.

Not that I am an expert on this

but I think most 13 year old boys probably see women as sexual objectives.

kmkkid · Mar 23, 2005, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by buffalolee:
I would be careful about this.

The you want to worry about is whether his son will start thinking about women as sexual objects. It is one thing to show as a teaching material, it is another to use it as posters on the walls of your bedroom.

I'd rather have my son hanging posters to get his rocks off than going out and getting some girl pregnant

Chris

KeriVit · Mar 23, 2005, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
So, my cousin is buying Playboy (and some Penthouse) mags for his 13 y/o son, saying it's for his sexual education (even lets him hang the centerfolds on his bedroom walls). This is the same cousin who is a sex and porn addict (goes to counseling for it). He and his wife are divorced, due to consequences of said problems, and I think he's only doing it to get into his kid's good graces. However, I can't help but feel that the kid's just a bit too young for such stuff, and politely told him so. He just kinda shrugged and said "boys will be boys, it's what he wants".

Do you think this is proper or healthy behavior? Am I just overreacting?

I may sound like a prude, but I think things like this should be kept private and in moderation. I'm sure other parents would not appreciate their sons visiting and mentioning this sort of thing. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with the kid having the magazine- under his mattress. Also, since there is no dialog- the blatant showmanship and treating women as objects is just stupid. Let's say the kid gets a girlfriend- (hopefully not too soon). Is she going to appreciate this on his walls?- if she does, she's got issues too and both of them will have a kid by 16. Apparently, your cousin has learned nothing from the counseling.

dcmacdaddy · Mar 23, 2005, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
So, my cousin is buying Playboy (and some Penthouse) mags for his 13 y/o son, saying it's for his sexual education (even lets him hang the centerfolds on his bedroom walls). This is the same cousin who is a sex and porn addict (goes to counseling for it). He and his wife are divorced, due to consequences of said problems, and I think he's only doing it to get into his kid's good graces. However, I can't help but feel that the kid's just a bit too young for such stuff, and politely told him so. He just kinda shrugged and said "boys will be boys, it's what he wants".

Do you think this is proper or healthy behavior? Am I just overreacting?

Buying the mags for him seems a little odd buit a 13-year-old boy IS going to have interests in this whether or not it is encouraged by the father.

My concern is that if the father is not putting any of this in context. If you are going to *give* your kid a porno mag you need to talk about issues of respect for women and try to instill a sense that women are not to be seen merely as objects for sexual gratification. (Yes,I know this message would go in one ear and out the other of most 13-year-olds but the message still needs to be given.) Methinks though that with a father with sex and porn addictions this kids should NOT be getting any nudie mags handed to him by his father.

Millennium · Mar 23, 2005, 10:26 AM

If this is his idea of sexual education, then it is grossly incomplete. No doubt it does an adequate job of teaching the most basic plumbing, but it does not go into emotional issues, safety and medical issues, spiritual and moral issues -in the context of the kid's or parent's own beliefs, or in a comparative sense- or even aesthetic and practical issues. For that matter, it doesn't even teach the physical aspect of things terribly well, given that the models paint quite an unrealistic picture; at least the public-school courses have reasonably accurate diagrams (despite sharing many of this method's other flaws).

Either this guy is a bad teacher, or he has some other motive. Regardless, this is by no means a good way to go about sex education for a 13-year-old.

effgee · Mar 23, 2005, 10:31 AM

"plumbing" ...

ReggieX · Mar 23, 2005, 10:42 AM

You're not overreacting, not by a long shot. Overreacting would have been to call the cops or social services and have the kid taken away, gone on TV caling your cousin a prevert of the worst order, going on Jerry, etc.

It's clear your cousin has a problem with porn, and is passing it along to his young son without a second thought. At that age I had found a few myself, and had secured away a single ancient Penthouse issue for perusing. That's a far friggin' cry from what your cousin's doing.

Oisín · Mar 23, 2005, 10:44 AM

Am I the only one who doesn't think of this as an issue at all?

Seriously, the kid is 13. The worst thing I can see about this is that his father (or school, etc.) haven't given him any sexual education before now (assuming they haven't)! With the number of teenage pregnancies and STD's, sexual education should take place before age 13 - it should be something that you learn about before your body is actually ready to go out and do it.

That said, Playboy is perhaps (as has been mentioned) not the best way of sexual education. If the kid wants to read Playboy and hang centerfolds on his walls, no problems (could be slightly embarassing when grandma and grandpa visit, though). Chances are he's been reading Playboy and/or watching porn for at least two or three years now anyway. I just hope his dad isn't thinking of this as his whole sex ed. He needs to learn a lot more than what a semi-pornographic magazine can teach him.

And contrary to what many people think, reading/watching porn is only in very few cases enough to single-handedly make a kid think of women (or men) purely as sexual objects. By far the bigger part of people who have these views have them because their own parents had them, not because they read/watched porn at 13.

Besides, all this about not seeing women as sexual objects... If he's sexually attracted to women (which we must assume he is, since his father says reading Playboy is his own wish/choice), then he's already seeing women as sexual objects, just as every other person who's sexually attracted to women is. Seeing someone as a sexual object doesn't stop you from also seeing them as a human being. It's not a problem till it does.

Oisín · Mar 23, 2005, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by ReggieX:
It's clear your cousin has a problem with porn, and is passing it along to his young son without a second thought.

Being introduced to porn at age 13 is not the same as having a 'problem with porn' passed on to you.

At that age I had found a few myself, and had secured away a single ancient Penthouse issue for perusing. That's a far friggin' cry from what your cousin's doing.

To compare: At 13, I'd been reading/watching porn for about 4 years, and already had my own little collection (only a little one, though), and though I never discussed the matter with my parents, I'm quite certain they were fully aware of it.

ort888 · Mar 23, 2005, 10:49 AM

He should have to find it in a closet like the rest of us, dammit.

Seriously though, I had access to all kinds of porn at age 13, only I was more sneaky about it. Looking back though, I think my dad had to know.

Oisín · Mar 23, 2005, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by ort888:
Seriously though, I had access to all kinds of porn at age 13, only I was more sneaky about it. Looking back though, I think my dad had to know.

Good to see I'm not alone here!

Yeah, when you get older, you realise that your parents were probably not as dumb as you gave them credit for being back then...

historylme · Mar 23, 2005, 11:06 AM

I came home from a summer internship and found all my stash, stollen from dad and my older brothers gone. My mom threw them away. I never said anything, and thankfully, she never said anything to me. For a chatholic house, I was so incredibly thankful.

On topic:
As long as the kid knows the difference, and he should develop a "normal" view on porn.

dcmacdaddy · Mar 23, 2005, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by history1me:
As long as the kid knows the difference, and he should develop a "normal" view on porn.

I think that is the point: Will this kid learn the difference between the artificial world of sexuality shown in porn and the real world of sexuality (MacNNstein's circumstances not-withstanding)? A father with porn and sex addiction issues is probably not going to be the kind of person who can introduce the idea of a healthy concept of sexuality into his son.

Albert Pujols · Mar 23, 2005, 12:50 PM

My friend's dad gave him a Playboy when he was 13. Of course his mom took it away from him when she caught him with it. His dad later gave it back to him..

As a joke, I told my friend the reason his dad gave him the playboy was that his dad thought he was gay. Like that one episode of The Simpsons where Homer thought Bart was gay, so he made him stare at that billboard with women on it.

wdlove · Mar 23, 2005, 03:04 PM

My first thought was about Europe. That start children drinking at home, at a young age. Then they tend to not go out and binge drink and get drunk as often.

RAILhead · Mar 23, 2005, 03:09 PM

Giving them takes the fun away because the kid can't snag 'em from someone and smuggle them into the house.

Regardless, he will still have a necessary component required for proper 13 year old home vandalization: ripping out the good n' dirty pics and taping them to face into someone's windows.

Maury

Oisín · Mar 23, 2005, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by wdlove:
My first thought was about Europe. That start children drinking at home, at a young age. Then they tend to not go out and binge drink and get drunk as often.

Or, as is mostly the case in Denmark, children start drinking with their buds at age 11. At age 13, their parents want to 'introduce them to alcohol' and let them drink moderately at home, hoping for the exact effect you're describing. At age 15, the kids are out on huge drinking binges four times a week, drinking so much (on average) that their alcohol intake qualifies them as alcoholics.

Then they hit their early twenties (approximately), and they realise it's getting boring, so they slow down and only go out drinking maybe once a week, and not nearly as heavily as before.

Sad, but true.

deej5871 · Mar 23, 2005, 05:36 PM

What? Women are things.

But seriously, I'm with Ois�n. When I was 13 (which wasn't ages ago for me like it was for some of you) I knew all about porn already. I knew about my dad's Playboys along with my.. *ahem* internet adventures. No one ever talked to me about it (other than school sex ed), and I'm not completely screwed up.

andi*pandi · Mar 23, 2005, 07:56 PM

I agree with kerivit. Giving him a copy to keep under the mattress is completely different than wallpapering with it.

Zimphire · Mar 23, 2005, 07:58 PM

Yeah.. not over-reacting..

That is kinda creepy.

Reminds me of a DVD I rented not too long ago.

memory-minus · Mar 23, 2005, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by Albert Pujols:
Like that one episode of The Simpsons where Homer thought Bart was gay, so he made him stare at that billboard with women on it.

I kinda want a cigarette...

MrForgetable · Mar 23, 2005, 10:52 PM

i'm a sophomore now.
and we had a sex-ed class when i was 13.

that was enough?

Millennium · Mar 24, 2005, 07:14 AM

Originally posted by effgee:
"plumbing" ...

What else would you call it? The pictures aren't realistic enough to give a decent sense of external anatomy, and frankly "internal anatomy" is more of a mouthful than needs to be said on the subject.

shabbasuraj · Mar 25, 2005, 06:42 AM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
So, my cousin is buying Playboy (and some Penthouse) mags for his 13 y/o son, saying it's for his sexual education (even lets him hang the centerfolds on his bedroom walls). This is the same cousin who is a sex and porn addict (goes to counseling for it). He and his wife are divorced, due to consequences of said problems, and I think he's only doing it to get into his kid's good graces. However, I can't help but feel that the kid's just a bit too young for such stuff, and politely told him so. He just kinda shrugged and said "boys will be boys, it's what he wants".

Do you think this is proper or healthy behavior? Am I just overreacting?

Vintage.

Deimos · Mar 25, 2005, 07:12 AM

Sounds a bit weird that an adult is giving a child porn, even under the pretext that it's for educational purposes.

That's not to say a kid isn't going to see porn, but part of the "magic" in seeing it at a young age, is finding it out for yourself, behind your parent's back.

Athens · Mar 25, 2005, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
So, my cousin is buying Playboy (and some Penthouse) mags for his 13 y/o son, saying it's for his sexual education (even lets him hang the centerfolds on his bedroom walls). This is the same cousin who is a sex and porn addict (goes to counseling for it). He and his wife are divorced, due to consequences of said problems, and I think he's only doing it to get into his kid's good graces. However, I can't help but feel that the kid's just a bit too young for such stuff, and politely told him so. He just kinda shrugged and said "boys will be boys, it's what he wants".

Do you think this is proper or healthy behavior? Am I just overreacting?

Book or internet either way the kid is going to see it so what does it matter. Playboy is more tasteful then whats on the internet.

effgee · Mar 25, 2005, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by Millennium:
... "internal anatomy" is more of a mouthful than needs to be said on the subject.

Very well said - but I am so not going there.

juanvaldes · Mar 25, 2005, 04:39 PM

non-issue. Me and my friends at that age were interested and getting mags. A buddy of mine even got a few playboys from his mom around 13-15. Sex and sexuality is normal and healthy.

Busemann · Mar 25, 2005, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
Sex and sexuality is normal and healthy.

not sure i'd want my parents to hand me the porn though

But if the kid really is cool with it, why not..

sugar_coated · Mar 25, 2005, 05:19 PM

Sex education can begin early.

parallax · Mar 25, 2005, 08:25 PM

Most of my friends and I were into that stuff around that age, but I would have hated my parents to encourage me.

I think it's healthy if the kid gets into it himself, but he might get the wrong impression by his /dad/ buying him the mags. Just my opinion.

And, "sex education?" Unlikely.

MilkmanDan · Mar 27, 2005, 12:07 AM

Gee, I think at age 13 I lobbied my parents for the internet just for porn. Most kids will find it on their own, I mean, thats why the internet was made. For porn. At least Dad is trying to give some guidance with said porn. Playboy is rather mild, compared to other stuff.

ryaxnb · Mar 27, 2005, 04:59 AM

I think he's pobably responsible enough to make it.

Millennium · Mar 27, 2005, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
non-issue. Me and my friends at that age were interested and getting mags. A buddy of mine even got a few playboys from his mom around 13-15. Sex and sexuality is normal and healthy.

Maybe, but porn as a form of education? Furthermore, porn as the primary form of education? Surely you must agree that something a little more realistic is better-suited to that task.