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FulcrumPilot · Mar 30, 2005, 02:31 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4391835.stm

Damn! Just when I was feeling optimistic today about life, I had to see this downer!

nredman · Mar 30, 2005, 02:38 PM

bummer, doesn't suprise me though

AppleOptionFour · Mar 30, 2005, 04:48 PM

It really humbles me to think about where we might be in the next 50 years with regards to resources.

Then at the same time I think...I am glad I am getting paid at the end of the month.

But what is that money good for if there are no resources left?

Were we meant to live the way we do?

Mafia · Mar 30, 2005, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by AppleOptionFour:
But what is that money good for if there are no resources left?

women

Zimphire · Mar 30, 2005, 06:59 PM

This is not news.

It's been known for Centuries.

Mafia · Mar 30, 2005, 07:51 PM

HOT NEWS!~!!!

APPLE > MICROSOFT ...

budster101 · Mar 30, 2005, 08:16 PM

Yeah! We wrecked it the first time too I guess? (ICE AGE) ring a bell?
Don't remember any cars and crap then...

Zimphire · Mar 30, 2005, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by budster101:
Yeah! We wrecked it the first time too I guess? (ICE AGE) ring a bell?
Don't remember any cars and crap then...

Those Dinosaurs had HUGE cars.

goMac · Mar 30, 2005, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by budster101:
Yeah! We wrecked it the first time too I guess? (ICE AGE) ring a bell?
Don't remember any cars and crap then...

Yeah, cause you know, this is just like an Ice Age...

Astro-Creep · Mar 30, 2005, 10:37 PM

The planet has been doing fine for 4 billion years. What hubris to think that we could do irreperable damage in just a couple hundred thousand years.

malvolio · Mar 30, 2005, 10:45 PM

Originally posted by Astro-Creep:
The planet has been doing fine for 4 billion years. What hubris to think that we could do irreperable damage in just a couple hundred thousand years.

The planet itself, no. The current ecosystem, easily.
The result of our actions could be similar in effect to the mass extinctions that have occurred several times in the planet's history.

Astro-Creep · Mar 30, 2005, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by malvolio:
several times in the planet's history.

Quoted for posterity. Think about what you just said.

Link · Mar 30, 2005, 10:55 PM

why are humans so arrogant as to say they can destroy the planet? All the explosives in the world couldn't destroy earth, though they could easily make us all extinct.. that might not end life in all.

malvolio · Mar 30, 2005, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by Astro-Creep:
Quoted for posterity. Think about what you just said.

What, you never heard of the extinction of the dinosaurs? And that wasn't even the worst of them.

Astro-Creep · Mar 31, 2005, 12:39 AM

Originally posted by malvolio:
What, you never heard of the extinction of the dinosaurs? And that wasn't even the worst of them.

Noooo, never heard of that. Ever. Could you perhaps tell me about it? Maybe while you're trying to school me, you'll read about the extinction at the end of the other mass extinctions that took place, all before the evolution of a recognizable mammal, let alone man. In fact, one could argue that we're having such a negligible effect on the planet as a whole that when we do die off (and we will) we won't leave more than a couple bones and some small tools. The whole point to what I'm saying is that there is NO WAY to destroy an ecosystem. If you introduce change, what you are doing is introducing change. Ecosystems are dynamic, fluid things. Ecosystems are so tough that they exist on the ocean floor where no sunlight makes it. They are so tough that they exist in geysers with superheated superdense steam that would boil away flesh pretty much instantly.

The net effect of humanity on planet earth is nil.

malvolio · Mar 31, 2005, 12:47 AM

It's a matter of semantics, then. To my way of thinking, the extinction of up to 90% of existent species, leading eventually to the evolution of many new species, marks a change from one type of ecosystem to another.
You use the term in a much broader sense. And in that sense, you are correct.
But to say that the net effect of humanity on the planet is nil - well, if you're thinking in geological terms, I'll agree.

goMac · Mar 31, 2005, 02:20 AM

Originally posted by Astro-Creep:
Quoted for posterity. Think about what you just said.

You do realize what species he is referring to by "mass extinction"?

Zimphire · 06:12 AM

Originally posted by Astro-Creep:
Noooo, never heard of that. Ever. Could you perhaps tell me about it? Maybe while you're trying to school me, you'll read about the extinction at the end of the other mass extinctions that took place, all before the evolution of a recognizable mammal, let alone man. In fact, one could argue that we're having such a negligible effect on the planet as a whole that when we do die off (and we will) we won't leave more than a couple bones and some small tools. The whole point to what I'm saying is that there is NO WAY to destroy an ecosystem. If you introduce change, what you are doing is introducing change. Ecosystems are dynamic, fluid things. Ecosystems are so tough that they exist on the ocean floor where no sunlight makes it. They are so tough that they exist in geysers with superheated superdense steam that would boil away flesh pretty much instantly.

The net effect of humanity on planet earth is nil.

You tell em.

Oh and.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...dontiltedearth

CD Hanks · Mar 31, 2005, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
This is not news.

It's been known for Centuries.

I'd just like to preface this post by saying "I'm not trolling here. Seriously."

That said: What? Centuries? Explain please.

Danke.

Zimphire · Mar 31, 2005, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by CD Hanks:
I'd just like to preface this post by saying "I'm not trolling here. Seriously."

That said: What? Centuries? Explain please.

Danke.

For centuries there have been many people believing that this earth wont last forever.

That concept is nothing new.

Now what causes it, well I guess that is up to debate.

CD Hanks · Mar 31, 2005, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
For centuries there have been many people believing that this earth wont last forever.

That concept is nothing new.

Now what causes it, well I guess that is up to debate.

Oh, right.

(i reed gud lol)

badidea · Mar 31, 2005, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Now what causes it, well I guess that is up to debate.

Quoted for posterity. Think about what you just said.

There are exactly 2 possibilities:
1) It's caused by us, the humans
2) It's NOT caused by us

How to solve this problem now?

If it is not caused by us then we don't have a chance!
If it is caused by us on the other hand, then we have to do something about it!

Result:
If we don't do anything then the end will come earlier as we like but we have do have one chance to not feel guilty at the end...

Zimphire · Mar 31, 2005, 06:52 AM

Or

3. Us doing or not doing anything has no effect whatsoever. It's gonna happen when it happens.

badidea · Mar 31, 2005, 07:21 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Or

3. Us doing or not doing anything has no effect whatsoever. It's gonna happen when it happens.

And what exactly does this help?

We can only have success if we try - if we don't, we will fail for sure!

11011001 · Mar 31, 2005, 07:36 AM

The system will fix itself. If we do too much damage, we are just killing ourselves, when there are less people, it can repair itself. It's just change and nothing to be afraid of.

What I find weird is my own desire, and others to preserve the world in the same state that we found it. For instance, when I mow the lawn, I'll avoid a wild flower. But does that flower really matter? Who cares? In the same sense who cares about rain forests, wetlands and the like? So what if half the species on the planet die. I can't really find a rational reason to care. One might argue that as a result lots of people die, so what? The system will adapt, and allow for new and different organisms to emerge through the process of evolution.

We are a result of a catastrophe worse than the impending climate change crisis, namely the event that led to the extinction of the dinosaurs. Had they not died of, the poor little weak rodents we were could never have evolved into what we are today. We would have been too weak; easy prey. This will likely allow some other species dominance.

The only rational reason I can find to care is from my own tendency towards self preservation. In a universe tailored for evolution all systems have a tendency for replication, and preservation, otherwise they would simply not exist.

badidea · Mar 31, 2005, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by 11011001:
...we are just killing ourselves...

That's exactly what this is all about! We are doing nothing that will make this planet explode!

Why do we care about the tsunami victims?
Why are you afraid of terrorists?
Why???
People are dying since thousands of years (sooner or later) - why should we do anything at all??
Fu(c)k 'em all!

TETENAL · Mar 31, 2005, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by badidea:
We can only have success if we try - if we don't, we will fail for sure!

Armageddon means that we will all go to heaven. You're not scaring a Christian with that.

Zimphire · Mar 31, 2005, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by badidea:
And what exactly does this help?
We can only have success if we try - if we don't, we will fail for sure!

If it happens it happens regardless of what we do or don't do.

Zimphire · Mar 31, 2005, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by TETENAL:
Armageddon means that we will all go to heaven.

I must have missed that part of the Bible.

badidea · Mar 31, 2005, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
If it happens it happens regardless of what we do or don't do.

...and if it doesn't happen, it could be because we did something against it!
What's your point??

(Mine is: If there's a chance, then we should take it!!)

FulcrumPilot · Mar 31, 2005, 12:31 PM

There will be another planet that we could hijack......so no worries. I wonder who is going to get there first though and start farming. The chinese?

Zimphire · Mar 31, 2005, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by badidea:
...and if it doesn't happen, it could be because we did something against it!
What's your point??

(Mine is: If there's a chance, then we should take it!!)

And I am saying, there isn't a chance. IMHO

Nothing we can do or not do can stop it.

Busemann · Mar 31, 2005, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by budster101:
Yeah! We wrecked it the first time too I guess? (ICE AGE) ring a bell?
Don't remember any cars and crap then...

standard right-winger response

Zimphire · Mar 31, 2005, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by Busemann:
standard right-winger response

Who cares, it's accurate.

BTW I know many left wingers that feel the same way.

I also know some right wingers that don't.

Astro-Creep · Mar 31, 2005, 02:05 PM

I've never understood the rationality behind the idea that we're killing the planet. When we screw up the environment, we're just killing ourselves. And some stuff lower on the food chain. If you want to not get this kind of response out of realists, try and speak better. Instead of saying "we're killing the planet," say "we're ruining our future." That is something I can agree with. God or not, what we are doing is using up all the resources we depend on. Not nature. They're not natural resources, they're consumer resources. Nature has no use for oil, the consumer does. Wait, I take that back. THINGS LIVE IN OIL TOO.

Our rapid consumption of everything we need to survive is only going to change us. When we run out, oops!

The only reason I can think of for all this crap about maintaning the environment as it is, is that people want to maintain the status quo. We became the dominant species in the current environment, we'd like it to last as long as possible. That's self-preservation, and totally understandable. What I don't get is this rationalization that we're preseving some fragile, tenuous thing that will shatter if we touch it too hard. This abstract of "nature" being something to preserve is ludicrous at best. We're not preserving anything. If anything, we're impeding the evolution of the ecosystem as a whole by trying to keep things in their own neat and tidy little boxes.