[Weyland-Yutani]

Or should I say the B767X? Embraer 190 on steroids?



Anyway, what was once the radical cool looking B7E7 (later B787) that looked like this:

B787 concept (as it looked yesterday)


Has become this:

B787 reality (as it was revealed today)




Boeing has always promised radical performance increase and a revolution in aviation. To sell this idea they used the concept image (the first one at the top)

Now when reality (i.e. laws of physics and aerodynamics) sets in the plane takes on a more traditional and perhaps boring shape. I was looking forward to seeing that shark-tail fin and futuristic looking nose at airports around the world. Looks like that isn't going to happen.

Boeing's main competitor in civil aviation is Airbus, which have proposed a design for a plane that is to fit in the same market niche with similar range, effectivity and technology. The A350 as it is called, has received a lot of heat from critics saying it is just a warmed up A330 - and indeed it looks very traditional.

A350 concept design:


Now that Beoing has scaled down the futuristic ultra-modern look of their upcoming B787 these voiced have been struck dumb. It looks like a new-ish B767. The magic is gone. Indeed as Boeing themselves say:

"The basic shape of large commercial jet airplanes has remained essentially unchanged since the introduction of the Boeing 707 nearly 50 years ago,� said Mike Bair, senior vice president of the 7E7 program. �There�s a good reason for that. The shape is optimal for achieving lift, fighting drag and producing efficient, comfortable flight.

Perhaps Airbus realized this long before and made its concept drawings more down-to-the-ground. The airline industry is well aware of the optimal aerodynamic shape of subsonic jetliners. The biggest revolution is in the engines and the composite-rich fusilage. Then again, Arbus has so far only sold 10 A350s while Boeing has already sold more than 250 B787s. Perhaps Airbus should have started out with fancy designs too!

It must be said that even after scaling the 'new' factor out of the B787 there will be a distinct feature to it after all, but it will only be visible in flight - namely the flexing wings



W-Y

[Weyland-Yutani]

Oh and if a moderator could please move this thread to the Lounge it would be most appreciated

OOOOPS!!

[Millennium]

Um... are you sure you've got the right concept image? I admit to not being terribly familiar with commercial aviation, but I don't really see any difference between the two except the paint job.

[Zimphire]

Me either

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Um... are you sure you've got the right concept image? I admit to not being terribly familiar with commercial aviation, but I don't really see any difference between the two except the paint job.

Look at the first picture (in the ANA livery) and the second picture. Compare the tail and the nose for spotting some easy differences.

[SLam]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

Oh and if a moderator could please move this thread to the Lounge it would be most appreciated

OOOOPS!!

Yes, please... I read the title as B7 87. I was asking myself, who would name their software in hex.

[xi_hyperon]

I can definitely see a difference. The new version is stubbier looking, and the nose is not as raked back. That's too bad. Boeing has a lot of photos they are going to have to replace, as the original version is everywhere on their site.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by xi_hyperon

I can definitely see a difference. The new version is stubbier looking, and the nose is not as raked back. That's too bad. Boeing has a lot of photos they are going to have to replace, as the original version is everywhere on their site.

I agree. I was really looking forward to seeing such a futuristic looking airplane grace the skies

The tech behind it is awsome and some of the distinctive 7E7 features remain, but to a very small degree. Concept design meets engineering eh. This is a frozen design, it will not be changed.

The 787 will hopfully live up to all the expectations that are made for it, but most people won't recognize it from an A330 or more probably an B767.

There is no plane more graceful or beautiful in operation today than the A330 IMHO.

[Goldfinger]

The flexi wings looks cool, as long as they don't flex too much

[OreoCookie]

The concept looked cooler than the updated design, the longer nose and tail gave it an elegant touch.

However, you don't buy a plane for the looks, but because it's supposed to fly -- safely, efficiently and reliably. If Beoing can deliver those promises, then Airbus will have good competitor. And this will continue to drive technology.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

So what is the deal with the flex wings? Sounds interesting.

[von Wrangell]

The only difference from other modern planes I see are the wings. Surely that couldn't make such of a huge difference can it?

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

So what is the deal with the flex wings? Sounds interesting.

The flex seen in the picture is not going to happen in real life unless the B787 is making a 2G pull

Looks good though.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

The only difference from other modern planes I see are the wings. Surely that couldn't make such of a huge difference can it?

The wings of an airplane are one of the most imporant aspects of an airplane. 80% wings 20% body.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

The concept looked cooler than the updated design, the longer nose and tail gave it an elegant touch.

However, you don't buy a plane for the looks, but because it's supposed to fly -- safely, efficiently and reliably. If Beoing can deliver those promises, then Airbus will have good competitor. And this will continue to drive technology.

I agree. It must be said that for the longest time Boeing hinted at that the B787 design was supposed to be new and exciting, capture people's imagination when they saw it and distinct like the 707 and the 747. They gave it the name Dreamliner.

Then they deliver the "B767 Next Generation" aka B787. Us aviation enthusiasts are a bit disappointed, because this was most likely a ploy to sell the B787 before the design was finalized. Fair enough and more power to them if this helps make the Dreamliner a reality but apart from us aviation enthusiasts not many are going to be able to spot it from a distance and identify it as a B787.

The only distinct planes out there in the near future are the B747 and the A380. With little problems you could recognize the 777 and the A340 but the rest you need to be a bit of an enthusiast to spot

[KeyLimePi]

I think Boeing gave up on 'innovative design' with the death of the Sonic Cruiser.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by KeyLimePi

I think Boeing gave up on 'innovative design' with the death of the Sonic Cruiser.

Now *there's* a design for the XXI century!!

[Mister Elf]

Hmm. Looks like a 737-800ER with weird-ass wings :-).

[theolein]

I would imagine that they moved the tail further back because having it too far forward would increase the yaw instability and the nose was probably made more conventional to improve the view angle on landing.

[FulcrumPilot]

IMHO, all future passenger aircraft should be designed with safety in mind instead of profits.

If safety was the primary factor in design I think we would have something like a hang glider design perhaps (with engines of course that can be jettisoned) so that it can glide back or just descend in a well controlled manner and suffer minimum structural damage in case of systems failure.

Can those who are creative and talented with photoshop/CAD get going on this tip or alternative designs? I can make something using a sheet of paper (will post an image later).

[Troll]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

It must be said that even after scaling the 'new' factor out of the B787 there will be a distinct feature to it after all, but it will only be visible in flight - namely the flexing wings

That's not a unique feature. The wings flex on all modern airliners. Maybe not quite as much as the 787's wings will, but look out of the window the next time you catch a plane. Check where the wings are when it's on the ground and compare when it's in the air. Watch the tip when you go through turbulence. In fact, if you watch the A380 videos, you can see the wing tips climbing up as it accelerates down the runway. I don't see much of a difference between the A350's wing design and that of the 787 - they both look like gliders.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Troll

That's not a unique feature. The wings flex on all modern airliners. Maybe not quite as much as the 787's wings will, but look out of the window the next time you catch a plane. Check where the wings are when it's on the ground and compare when it's in the air. Watch the tip when you go through turbulence. In fact, if you watch the A380 videos, you can see the wing tips climbing up as it accelerates down the runway. I don't see much of a difference between the A350's wing design and that of the 787 - they both look like gliders.

You are absoloutly correct of course.

All airplane wings flex and quite a bit if they are pressed. It is very important because there is constantly some difference of pressure on the wing and it must be able to take extra stress without snapping off.

I was wrong thinking the B787 wing will flex this much under normal flight. This is an artists impression, but made under the assumption that the B787 wing will be a lot thinner and flex more because of it. That is just not carved in stone yet, so maybe it will maybe it won't. The wings have not been made yet after all and the B787 is a relatively light plane after all.

The wings of the A380 flexed well above the fusilage yesteday as you spotted! That is normal for wings of that size. One doesn't see that much flex on a heavily loaded B737 or A320.

B737-800 take-off
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/815410/L/
Notice the only slightly flex.

A321-200 take-off
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/824681/L/
Very slight flexing.

These planes aren't very big and relatively light. Now let's take a look at some
"heavies"!

A330-300
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/378681/L/
The wings flex above the fusilage - mind you that the A330 wings are normally at a slightly ascending angle so the flex isn't nearly as much as it appears on that photo

B767-300ER
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/766959/L/
Nice flexing. This plane is heavily loaded and the wings show it at take-off.

Now for the big boys. These planes just can't take off at all without obvious wing flexing. That is the effect of their scale. They need a very flexible wing.

B747-400
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/819315/L/
Typical flexing of the Queen of the skies.

A380-800
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/826026/L/
As you mentioned. - That A380 was taking off at 421 tons which is 75% of its MTOW.

A320/B737 = little flex at take-off
A330/B767 = some flex at take-off
A380/B747 = now we're flexing

I swear when I fly on the Fokker 50 those wings just don't seem to flex at all at take-off! I've seen them move in heavy turbulance but that's about it. The lighter the plane the less flex you'll see I reckon.

Safe flying everyone!