[Cody Dawg]

Okay, so this morning I read this article that discusses how one child brought her mother's diabetes syringe/needle to school and pricked 19 children with it.

Now one of the children pricked is testing positive for HIV/AIDS.

This is on the heels of the 5-year old brat that threw a fit in a classroom, trying to stab the teacher with a pen and throwing a 30-minute tantrum, the one where her mother wouldn't or couldn't come and get her, and the police intervened and when they did they handcuffed her.

Before that there was tasering a child in Miami because he was slashing his own wrists and making himself bleed.

I'm not saying that such strongarm methods of controlling children are really necessary 100% of the time (especially not tasering a child), but I think that handcuffing that child was actually a good idea, even though my first reaction was one of shock, after I saw the video of the child throwing books and smashing things. She was dangerous, in my opinion. In fact, I thought to myself, "She could have easily stabed a child with a pencil, pen, or even a pair of scissors if she'd found them."

What IS wrong with kids nowadays? Seriously? Like I mentioned in the other thread about the handcuffed girl, is it sugar? ADD? Bad parenting? NO parenting? Lack of discipline?

I was disgusted when I heard Jesse Jackson on his media pulpit yesterday pronouncing the handcuffed girl a "criminalized child victim." Here you have a young girl who obviously has no intestinal fortitude and not only endangers herself but other children and teachers and instead of being punished for acting the way she did, she is now held up as an example of the failure of the school system and the police.

GIVE. ME. A. BREAK.

Something needs to be done about the way these kids are acting. If my kid did these things I'd kick his a$$ and pull him out of school and put him in a military school where there are ways and means for dealing with out-of-control children. He knows it, too. I love him more than anything, but there is no excuse for acting that way. NONE.

For *whatever* reason, my children don't act this way. They don't throw tantrums in public and they behave. The older child is an honor roll straight-A student. I don't think it's a fluke of nature that they act the right way. They know that there are boundaries that simple aren't crossed.



Comments? Opinions? What would YOUR parents have done if you'd behaved this way...or DID you behave this way?

What would you do if your child acted this way? Or how would you feel if your child was one of the kids stabbed with a needle/syringe and was now possibly HIV infected?

[DeathMan]

All children are like this. Its new, and there have never been out of control children before now. Its a sign of Armageddon.

[Cody Dawg]

I haven't met kids like this before, to be honest. I read about them in the news or I hear about it on television news. Haven't actually met any.

Care to elaborate, please?

I'll check back in a minute. I'm shampooing my carpet. Doing the dishes. Washing all of our clothes. Then I'm mowing the lawn. That's on top of trying to finish a report so that I can FedEx it out tonight by 6:00 PM.

[effgee]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

... I read about them in the news or I hear about it on television news. Haven't actually met any. ...

That's the first 35% of your answer - media hype because it sells more newspapers/gets better ratings than "real" news. Makes people feel better about their lives, too (as in: "Oh, that's the worst thing that's been going on today? Things gotta be peachy then.")

The other 65% have already been discussed in the "why hasn't that 5yr old been executed yet" thread - parents with too little time, retarded legislation, lack of discipline and/or disciplinary action ...

And obviously, people are fine with that - otherwise they'd do something about it. At least, it makes for "good" news.

**shrug**

[Cody Dawg]

Yeah, you're absolutely right.

However, having 19 children stabbed with an HIV-infected needle IS big news.

[effgee]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Yeah, you're absolutely right. However, having 19 children stabbed with an HIV-infected needle IS big news.

Yup, it definitely is quite the headline - but do you honestly think this third-grader was fully aware of what she was about to do (the HIV part, that is - not sticking the other kids)? Very doubtful.

What pisses me off is the image these fsckers at CNN slapped onto their article page ...



BREAKING NEWS ... Playground = HIV

The only thing missing is a limp body draped over one of the swings - absolutely tasteless and disgusting.


As for the kid - these articles almost never give a sufficient amount of background info so that the reader would actually be in a position to make up his own mind about the story and/or what the proper consequences should be in his/her mind - so it's really hard to judge.

What kind of home does the girl have? How could the parents raise a kid in such a way? Did she have a history of displaying similar behavioral patterns? Are/were any efforts being made to get the kid some help and/or remove her from a bad home (in case this applies)? ...

Too many questions, no answers - that's today's mainstream news for you.

**yetanothershrug**

[andi*pandi]

today after work, I'm going to learn to juggle geese.

[paul w]

Hey, I keep telling people kids are a problem that is NOT going away until we stop making them.

Naturally the money I save goes to cocaine and high class escorts.

Oh, and I ALWAYS get to keep the prize in the cereal box.

[Cody Dawg]

I guess no one cares, actually.

It's either the media is sensationalizing it or "I don't care" mentality because "it doesn't affect me and it hasn't personally affected me - and I don't think it will - so it's not my concern."

Okay.

Dead thread then.

[Randman]

Too many parents spend too little time with their kids. Kids spend too much time on things like video games and TV when they should be reading and playing and interacting with other kids. Parents should talk to their kids and listen.

[vcutag]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I guess no one cares, actually.

It's either the media is sensationalizing it or "I don't care" mentality because "it doesn't affect me and it hasn't personally affected me - and I don't think it will - so it's not my concern."

Okay.

Dead thread then.

I wonder how much of it is changing standards of discipline? I mean, yeah, the media didn't waste time with this kind of "man bites dog" coverage 50 years ago, but at that same time, said kid would probably have had the attitude knocked out of them or been put in a home. The parents probably would have been mortified (you'd hope) that their kid would act in such a manner.

I'm pretty liberal, but I don't have a problem with parents whacking their kids a good one when they act like a disgrace in public. Or in private.

[ghporter]

1) Not ALL children are like this. Most are actually good kids, though they aren't like we were when we were younger, because they've been born into a different world with different things going on. They don't have to "duck and cover" the way I had to in school, but they do have to worry about being kidnapped, assaulted, drive-by victimized, and otherwise nasty issues. It's not a good trade off from my perspective, but it's reality.

2) The initial screening HIV test is INTENDED TO GENERATE FALSE POSITIVES TO KEEP FROM MISSING POSSIBLE CASES. There are at least two or three more sensitive tests that are used after a positive from the screening test, and the odds are that the kids in question will all come out negative. I hope the mother is getting tested too, though it's doubtful that an insulin-controlled diabetic is unknowingly HIV positive, since she'd have to be followed pretty closely by a physician to match her insulin dosage to her current situation.

3) The mother does need to be slapped for letting her kid get hold of her syringes, particularly with needles attached. That's just stupid! Most diabetics are trained on how to make a home "sharps" box to prevent anyone from accidentally coming in contact with their needles-for example, a half-gallon bleach jug works quite well for this, and doesn't need to even be rinsed out before it's used.

4) What you're seeing with "kids today" is the current generation of parents, 20-ish people mostly, who have not one whit of intelligence when it comes to raising children. They pamper their kids, give them anything they want-particularly anything to get the kids to stop whining at them-and otherwise fail to raise them. They just "nurture" them without instilling any thought of discipline, responsibility or self-reliance. We aren't going to be getting our Social Security from these kids. We're going to have to take care of THEM! It's bad, selfish parenting, pure and simple. Fortunately, they are not the overwhelmingly huge majority they seem to be.

5) As effgee says, it's media sensationalism that gives us this kind of stuff to think about. Stupid stuff happened when I was a kid (that's about 40 years ago!), but it stayed in local papers. Maybe big city papers or news services found out about a kid that brought a knife to school, but by the time they heard of it, the news was OLD and they dropped. This is called "journalism." Today's media don't know what that word means.

[indigoimac]

The obvious reason they're acting like this is because they own pcs which are constantly crashing and freezing, they have to take there anger out someplace and why not give people AIDS or do w/e
mmm.... sarcasm

[mrgaskell]

I have to agree with point number 4. As a teacher, thee is no discipline with kids, most schools cannot or will not suspend or discipline kids because it shows up on accountability reports. I've had a principla say, "If you've got a white girl in trouble, send her on down! If it is anything else, I can't suspend them."

<sigh> I think overall it is a lack of fortitude and discipline in the parents, who have neither the time or desire to stand up to their willful children so the kids win the battles. And when kids have no boundaries or ideas of right/wrong and what is appropriate behavior, not to mention respect for other people and their property, then you get the stuff we have going on today.

When I was a kid, if a neighbor saw me doing something bad, she/he could woop my arse. Then he/she would take me home and my mom would get me harder. not because of what i did, but the fact that someone else had to whoop me. Needless to say, I didn't act up too often!

One more thing: corporal punishment in schools. We are expected to raise, educated and set moral standards for the kids, but we can't discipline them? What's up with that? I got my assed paddled 22 times (3 swats each) by Mr. Fisher in Lexington, OK and I am the better for it. I think we need to bring that back to 2005.

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I was disgusted when I heard Jesse Jackson on his media pulpit yesterday pronouncing the handcuffed girl a "criminalized child victim." Here you have a young girl who obviously has no intestinal fortitude and not only endangers herself but other children and teachers and instead of being punished for acting the way she did, she is now held up as an example of the failure of the school system and the police.

jessie jackson ONLY "cares" if the child is black...if the kid was white, you would never hear from him...

[Cody Dawg]

Now THOSE are great posts, especially mrgaskell and this comment:

What you're seeing with "kids today" is the current generation of parents, 20-ish people mostly, who have not one whit of intelligence when it comes to raising children. They pamper their kids, give them anything they want-particularly anything to get the kids to stop whining at them-and otherwise fail to raise them. They just "nurture" them without instilling any thought of discipline, responsibility or self-reliance. We aren't going to be getting our Social Security from these kids. We're going to have to take care of THEM! It's bad, selfish parenting, pure and simple. Fortunately, they are not the overwhelmingly huge majority they seem to be.

SO true.

I think television is raising America's children, literally and figuratively.

Parents plop their babies, toddlers, and children down in front of the television sets and/or video games and let them develop with television as their moral guide. If it happens to be a show on glamorizing crime then those are the values that kids have.

But, paying attention and CARING about your children is where it starts and stops. Parents nowadays seem to think that when the children are in school that the teachers are expected to take over as the parent(s) and instill not only an education, but morals and values. Don't they realize that that is NOT the school's responsibility? Jesse Jackson said EXACTLY the same thing yesterday: "The school failed to protect and nurture 'the baby' in this instance." He kept talking about the little brat girl being a baby.

In one VERY amusing sound byte you could hear the girl mouth back to Jesse Jackson saying, "I'm NOT a baby!" He responded with, "Shush, now, yes you ARE a baby!"

Pretty sad...and sick.

[nredman]

out of control parents maybe, why the hell does your child have access to your needles? i'd say a very large % of some called kids out of control is because their parents and ****ing stupid are can't parent worth a damn - just my 2 cents

[turtle777]

-t

[deomacius]

I'd say from my own experiences (thanks to my ex and watching people in general) that it stems from two things.

1) Parents are busier with their own personal (read selfish) agendas. They spend more time doing what THEY want to do or accomplish and don't have the time or the energy to devote to being a vigilant parent.

2) There are NO consequences being applied for bad behavior. Lot's of kids aren't being held accountable for their bad behavior. I'll give you my own example.

My wife is a pushover and often tries to play the "friend" with our 4 year old son. He refuses to eat anything but junk because she will often cater to what he wants and poo-poo him. I on the other hand will make the boy stay there and eat his food until it's gone. I've had him fight me for a couple hours on a couple different occasions. He went so far as to ASK me if he could go to his room or go to sleep. In my opinion he's used to getting his way from his mom and held out because it's worked for him on one occasion or another. There is a noticeable difference (generally) in his behavior with me (the disciplinarian) and when he's with his mom (the friend). She's complained that she can't control him.

Long story short, when he's with his mom, there are less severe or no consequences for his actions. At my place, there are DEFINITE consequences for his actions. I tend to have very few problems with him.

Spare the rod....

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by turtle777

-t

In the interest of internationalism, I'm posting these links that show that "America" does not have a lock on "out of control children."

Mourning for Victims of German School Rampage

Portugal: President Sampaio calls for a return to authority in the classroom as school discipline reaches all-time low

Japan's Top Stories of 2004 -- No. 5: Sasebo's schoolgirl slayer

Tackling Violence in Schools: A Report from Greece (Ok, so this is not a specific incident, but it shows that this is a growing problem in Greece too)

As you can see, this is not something that happens "only in America (TM)," but is happening with increasing frequency all over the world. I will concede that the majority of these types of things are happening here in the US, but then again, we've been "leading the world" in terms of all sorts of issues. (Interpret that in any way you see fit).

[AKcrab]

Originally Posted by vcutag

I wonder how much of it is changing standards of discipline? I mean, yeah, the media didn't waste time with this kind of "man bites dog" coverage 50 years ago, but at that same time, said kid would probably have had the attitude knocked out of them or been put in a home. The parents probably would have been mortified (you'd hope) that their kid would act in such a manner.

I'm pretty liberal, but I don't have a problem with parents whacking their kids a good one when they act like a disgrace in public. Or in private.

Originally Posted by mrgaskell

I have to agree with point number 4. As a teacher, there is no discipline with kids, most schools cannot or will not suspend or discipline kids because it shows up on accountability reports. I've had a principla say, "If you've got a white girl in trouble, send her on down! If it is anything else, I can't suspend them."

When I was in college, I was considering a teaching degree. My dad was a teacher, my mom taught part time, it seemed like a natural thing.

Then one semester one of the education classes sent me to a junior high. I was shocked and dismayed at what classrooms had become. Kids were constantly talking, not paying attention, nobody seemed to be actually working. Surely this is just one bad classroom/teacher, right?

Nope.

As I moved from teacher to teacher I never found a classroom that had the decorum that I remembered from school. I quickly decided that the teaching profession was not what it used to be, and pursued another degree.

• Younger Parents
• Single Parent Families
• Both Parents Working
• Lack of Discipline

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by AKcrab

• Younger Parents
• Single Parent Families
• Both Parents Working
• Lack of Discipline

I think the single parent families is a really big factor, bigger than people want to admit.

My parents got divorced just as I was starting high school. For me it wasn't really that big a deal. I was already at the point where I was seperating myself from my parents anyway so the divorce was like another aspect of that. Didn't much bother me, and I don't think it had any significant effect on the way I turned out.

My sister, on the other hand, was only 9 at the time. She took it a lot harder, couldn't really deal with it, and now (I'd say) is pretty borderline as far as being out of control goes. I don't think she's likely to start stabbing people, but she definitely has some emotional issues that I think were probably caused, or at least worsened, by the divorce. And this was a pretty amicable divorce.

I can't imagine what it's like for kids who have to go through an actually rough divorce with all the attendant problems. And then there's kids who never even experience having both parents around. I suspect that the interaction between your parents is probably one of the most influential factors in determining the way you treat other people. What else do you have to model your inter-personal relationships on as a kid?

Better parenting is what's needed for better-behaved kids.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Person Man

In the interest of internationalism, I'm posting these links that show that "America" does not have a lock on "out of control children."

Ok, so I call it "Only BECAUSE OF America ! " Better ?

-t

[TomR]

The reason is very very simple, lack of parenting or bad parenting. The job of parenting is either NOT done or done hardly at all. It's really sad. Everybody wants to blame video games, TV, music,etc. but that's a bunch of BS. Kids are NOT punished anymore, "Time out" is absolute TOTAL NONSENSE. They should shoot the moron who came up with that retarded idea.

Oh and get this, it was in the N.Y. Daily news a few months back, it's text from an ACTUAL AD (one of the other reasons kids are screwed up):

"Does your child...

Lose their temper easily?
Argue with adults?
Deliberately annoy people?
Actively defy rules?

You child may be suffering from (get ready for this folks!)


OPPOSITIONAL DEFIANT DISORDER.

It goes on to say (get ready for the revalations!)

ODD can cause difficulty with behavior,academic performance and peer
relationships. "

Ladies and gentleman the future is TRUELY SCREWED.
Another BS "disorder" that they can drug kids up for.
The only drug these kids need is the stinging open hand treatment on the butt.

Kids misbehaving, just drug them up! Anyone who gives their kids drugs for their so called "disorders" should be thrown in prison.

Tom

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by turtle777

Ok, so I call it "Only BECAUSE OF America ! " Better ?

-t

arsehut

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by TomR

The reason is very very simple, lack of parenting or bad parenting. The job of parenting is either NOT done or done hardly at all. It's really sad. Everybody wants to blame video games, TV, music,etc. but that's a bunch of BS. Kids are NOT punished anymore, "Time out" is absolute TOTAL NONSENSE. They should shoot the moron who came up with that retarded idea.

Oh and get this, it was in the N.Y. Daily news a few months back, it's text from an ACTUAL AD (one of the other reasons kids are screwed up):

"Does your child...

Lose their temper easily?
Argue with adults?
Deliberately annoy people?
Actively defy rules?

You child may be suffering from (get ready for this folks!)


OPPOSITIONAL DEFIANT DISORDER.

It goes on to say (get ready for the revalations!)

ODD can cause difficulty with behavior,academic performance and peer
relationships. "

Ladies and gentleman the future is TRUELY SCREWED.
Another BS "disorder" that they can drug kids up for.
The only drug these kids need is the stinging open hand treatment on the butt.

Kids misbehaving, just drug them up! Anyone who gives their kids drugs for their so called "disorders" should be thrown in prison.

Tom

Brilliant marketing campaign, though. What kid doesn't need that drug?

[mitchell_pgh]

I think many parents simply don't want to spend the few hours a day they have with their children disciplining them. I also feel that many parents tend to believe their children over other adults, which IMHO is a big mistake (unless it's something that is VERY serious ie. sexual abuse, etc).

When I was teaching, I couldn't count the number of phone calls I would receive regarding outright lies children would spin... AND THESE WERE THE SMART PARENTS! I just wonder how many parents just took what the kids said at face value.

[mitchell_pgh]

I also feel that parents tend to feel that the educators should be disciplining their children... and teachers feel just the opposite (and kids know this).

[Zimphire]

Patience should be practiced towards a child trying to do something right, NOT towards a child being bad.

If a child is earnestly trying to obey a parent or teacher, but is unable to for legitimate reasons, then the parent or teacher should be patient towards the child.

If a child is not, don't hesitate to smack it's behind.

It's just too often some parents rather just let them do what they want to. It's less responsibility that way, and the parent can go on and do what they want to regardless.

Later in life, said parents can always blame video-games, or society on their children's bad behavior.

After all, it's probably those two very things the parents let bring up the kid.

[Cody Dawg]

I agree with all of the before-mentioned posts, pretty much.

That new "Oppositional Disorder" is just another "disorder" that was cooked up in order to get the shrinks more money (parents would rather take their kids to see a shrink to talk than actually talk to their own kids the majority of the time is how I feel.) Also, labeling something a disorder relieves the burden of guilt because instead of daddy or mommy being responsible for bad behavior via lack of parenting, the child has a "label" with a legitimate problem. It legitimizes poor behavior no matter what it is.

[Cubeoid]

Originally Posted by DeathMan

All children are like this. Its new, and there have never been out of control children before now. Its a sign of Armageddon.

Done and done.

[effgee]

Originally Posted by TomR

... "Does your child...

Lose their temper easily?
Argue with adults?
Deliberately annoy people?
Actively defy rules?

You child may be suffering from (get ready for this folks!)

OPPOSITIONAL DEFIANT DISORDER.

...

Does your child...

Lose their temper easily?
Argue with adults?
Deliberately annoy people?
Actively defy rules?

You may be suffering from ... "YSAAPD" (YOU SUCK AS A PARENT DISORDER)


fixed™


Suggested therapy - get 6ft. of rope from your local hardware store and hang yourself - 100% success guaranteed.

[hart]

I find it ...depressing that you all seem to assume that the only way to effectively discipline children is by hitting them. Hitting is the easy way out. You hit, they're afraid of you, they do what you want. But the end result is certainly not what I want for MY kids.

I have 3 hi energy, challenging kids. Hitting is NOT allowed in our house by anyone, including the grownups. Yes, we use an array of "useless" discipline techniques like time-out, removal of privileges and the like. The most important aspect of the whole thing is follow-through and consistency. If I say something is not allowed, I make sure that doing that thing results in consequenses. I watch a lot of parents, including my own spouse say over and over "Now, Timmy don't hit your sister" and then walk away and don't do any follow-up. Of course, I'm a stay-at-home parent and I spend a lot of time making sure that things happen.

But the other aspect of all this is respect. My kids know that I expect them to do their chores and follow the rules. They're all capable of testing my resolve, and do so, which is natural for children. But they also know that I will listen to them, take their opinions, needs and desires into consideration when making the rules and decisions. I respect what they think and feel as legitimate. I MODEL respect to them which is something that I don't hear from a lot of you. Of course, they also know from long experience that when the decision has been made by me, that's it.

Successful parenting takes a lot of time, patience, persistance and thought. AND RESPECT from all parties.

Those of you spouting the "I got wacked as a kid and I turned out great" line ought to read a little Alice Miller.

[Zimphire]

I got wacked as a kid and I have never landed in jail.

[invisibleX]

Originally Posted by hart

I find it ...depressing that you all seem to assume that the only way to effectively discipline children is by hitting them. Hitting is the easy way out. You hit, they're afraid of you, they do what you want. But the end result is certainly not what I want for MY kids.

I have 3 hi energy, challenging kids. Hitting is NOT allowed in our house by anyone, including the grownups. Yes, we use an array of "useless" discipline techniques like time-out, removal of privileges and the like. The most important aspect of the whole thing is follow-through and consistency. If I say something is not allowed, I make sure that doing that thing results in consequenses. I watch a lot of parents, including my own spouse say over and over "Now, Timmy don't hit your sister" and then walk away and don't do any follow-up. Of course, I'm a stay-at-home parent and I spend a lot of time making sure that things happen.

But the other aspect of all this is respect. My kids know that I expect them to do their chores and follow the rules. They're all capable of testing my resolve, and do so, which is natural for children. But they also know that I will listen to them, take their opinions, needs and desires into consideration when making the rules and decisions. I respect what they think and feel as legitimate. I MODEL respect to them which is something that I don't hear from a lot of you. Of course, they also know from long experience that when the decision has been made by me, that's it.

Successful parenting takes a lot of time, patience, persistance and thought. AND RESPECT from all parties.

Those of you spouting the "I got wacked as a kid and I turned out great" line ought to read a little Alice Miller.

Just wait til they hit the mid teens....

[JustAnOl'Broad]

[QUOTE=nonhuman
Better parenting is what's needed for better-behaved kids.[/QUOTE]



I work at restaurant and see horribly bratty children all the time.
When I have tables with really well behaved kids, I make every
effort to thank them and their parents for such nice manners.
It usually helps reinforce the training the parents have given them
on how to act in public.
And as a side note; most of the kids are home schooled, and both
parents work. Nanny's are becoming popular again too.

P~

[Abit667]

I think the future really is screwed. Just in my own family I know I was raised at least somewhat properly. Acting up of any kind was always followed up with a harsh, most often physical, punishment. My brother on the other hand will be getting his drivers license in a few months and acts with less control or maturity then I did when I was 12. My parents have not really done anything to him and just let him do whatever he wants, like I think a lot of kids are raised today.

[AKcrab]

Originally Posted by hart

I find it ...depressing that you all seem to assume that the only way to effectively discipline children is by hitting them. Hitting is the easy way out. You hit, they're afraid of you, they do what you want. But the end result is certainly not what I want for MY kids.

Nobody here claims it's the ONLY effective discipline. My point is that since the trend for "no physical punishment" has gained momentum, kids have gone out of control.

What is the "end result" as you see it? Are you refering to kids that "fear" their parents?

[zerostar]

D.P.

[zerostar]

There is a BIG difference between discipline and abuse. I think hart's comments are valid for an abused child.

I so-far have not had to use any physical discipline on my children, the know what I expect from them and I know what I can expect from them, and that is NOT perfection. Respect, truth and unconditional love are great for keeping children out of trouble.

As far as kids now a days, I can only speculate. I was a bad kid, was abused pretty badly and literally feared my father, but I was a terrible kid, stole, burglary, arson, etc. etc. I spent plenty of time in Juvenile, but looking back negative attention was better than the alternative (none). I think a big part of the problem is the kids who are getting little to no real attention from their parents.

[olePigeon]

Child Services is on a crack binge. They like taking kids away from parents who "beat" their children. And by beating, it's just spanking, or slapping on the butt with a wooden spoon or belt.

Seriously, kids are divorcing their parents just cuz they discipline their children. It's stupid.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Child Services is on a crack binge. They like taking kids away from parents who "beat" their children. And by beating, it's just spanking, or slapping on the butt with a wooden spoon or belt.

Actually they don't even need proof, I can call and have someone's kids taken away even if they are 100% innocent. (they would be taken away either for the length of the investigation or unless a judge permits the children back)

This is out of control, but do we err on the side of caution here? How do we know if the discipline goes too-far?

[storer]

If I acted this way.... well, I can't think, because I wouldn't.

[KeriVit]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

I got wacked as a kid and I have never landed in jail.

ditto.

A few smacks and dirty looks early on pretty much kept me from acting like an idiot later.

[powerbook867]

We have a concept in our house that works wonders. When we were new parents, my wife and I yelled when we were learning how to discipline our child. We quickly discovered this does not work. Here it is….

We don’t yell, we take. She knows this line by heart. We don’t take her security item, but she loses her doll or another item she regularly plays with if she behaves badly.

We don’t clean up her stuff, we tell it won’t be there in the morning if she doesn’t clean it up before bed. Millions of kids have nothing. We’ll donate it to a church up the street. We currently have 4 hefty bags of stuff in the attic. She cleans up her toys every night. Sometimes we help so she understands the meaning of family and team work.

She doesn’t mouth off in stores or restaurants. We leave. I don’t want to listen to her being bad and neither does anyone else. When she was young, my wife and I walked out of multiple stores rather than have her throw a fit. We rarely have fits anymore.

I truly believe that some parents just shouldn’t be parents. Some are afraid to discipline, others are lazy or don’t care. Not all parents are bad, but there are way too many who are doing a piss poor job at it (and it is a job as most parents on this board will agree).

Also, we almost never hit. I think our daughter got a smack on the behind once when she hit my wife. That didn’t happen again either….This country is going to be in a world of crap in 10 – 15 years unless we just keep all these children (soon to be young adults) heavily medicated…which ultimately doesn’t fix anything.

My longest post ever… Parents not parenting is a disservice to the child, the family and ultimately our country….

[zerostar]

Good post, I will have to agree 100% on your points. You sound like a great dad, good job man!

[Cody Dawg]

Okay, here's one for everyone.

About two years ago our neighbor shot up his ceiling fan and threatened to kill his wife. He went to jail for a while, came back, and SWORE that it was a one-time aberration. The guy had a great job and said he had a "mental breakdown."

He and his wife have five kids.

The oldest one, a girl who is 16, regularly sneaks boys and girls in and out of her bedroom window. She was sent away to a girl's school for being out of control - according to her mother. According to the neighbors on the other side of us, she was put into juvenile. Sad thing because the girl is very pretty.

The father regularly drinks now and has not held a job for any length of time. I think he's unemployed now. The wife (who looks like Debbie Reynolds - she's cute) is the one who does all of the laundry, cuts the grass, does EVERYTHING around the house, and she even was up on their roof trying to reshingle it. What does the husband do? Stand outside with his huge beer gut and bark orders at her. He does nothing.

Their kids seem nice and smart. We bought them gifts at the holidays and have always tried to encourage them. We know that they have an uphill battle with a drunk and unemployed role model - er, dad.

However, we've noticed that they are now hanging with the wrong people. The oldest boy was seen drinking and smoking as he walked down the street the other day - I think he's just turning 15.

Here is a PERFECT example of people who don't give a crap about their kids.

Tonight the juvenile delinquent girl came home for the weekend. Fine. I was in Miami today and got home at about 10:OO PM. As I turn into our street what do I see but no less than about 12 teeny bopper cars and kids spinning their wheels on the driveway, driving on the lawn, and get this - their 4-year old little girl was running down the street next to a truck with a teenager - who was pretending to be handing her a beer.

I went over there and asked if their mother was home because I thought she should know. I've always tried to be polite.

Well, it turns out that neither parent is home. Only the delinquent daughter. She is in the house smoking pot, apparently - you can smell it.

I was really upset and I called the cops. The teenagers all miraculously disappeared. Cops came out and talked to her. Neighbors on the other side said that they also saw it and are calling Children's Protective Services.

I'm standing out there talking to the other neighbors and these people pull up at 11:00 PM. She starts screaming at the group of us, "Why don't you stay out of our business!" She's obviously drunk.

This is America in a middle-class upscale neighborhood: DYSFUNCTIONAL.

It's pretty sad how people fail to care about their kids. When I close my eyes I think about that little girl running down the street next to that truck and I have an image of her being accidentally run over...but "mom" is mad because someone cared enough to do something about it.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by powerbook867

We have a concept in our house that works wonders. When we were new parents, my wife and I yelled when we were learning how to discipline our child. We quickly discovered this does not work. Here it is….

We don’t yell, we take. She knows this line by heart. We don’t take her security item, but she loses her doll or another item she regularly plays with if she behaves badly.

We don’t clean up her stuff, we tell it won’t be there in the morning if she doesn’t clean it up before bed. Millions of kids have nothing. We’ll donate it to a church up the street. We currently have 4 hefty bags of stuff in the attic. She cleans up her toys every night. Sometimes we help so she understands the meaning of family and team work.

She doesn’t mouth off in stores or restaurants. We leave. I don’t want to listen to her being bad and neither does anyone else. When she was young, my wife and I walked out of multiple stores rather than have her throw a fit. We rarely have fits anymore.

I truly believe that some parents just shouldn’t be parents. Some are afraid to discipline, others are lazy or don’t care. Not all parents are bad, but there are way too many who are doing a piss poor job at it (and it is a job as most parents on this board will agree).

Also, we almost never hit. I think our daughter got a smack on the behind once when she hit my wife. That didn’t happen again either….This country is going to be in a world of crap in 10 – 15 years unless we just keep all these children (soon to be young adults) heavily medicated…which ultimately doesn’t fix anything.

My longest post ever… Parents not parenting is a disservice to the child, the family and ultimately our country….

Dude, you rock.

[powerbook867]

I tell all our friends and family that the true test of how we do as parents is when she is 18 and going off to college...did we raise a responsible child into a responsible adult.

I'll post an update to how she's doing in about 14 years!!

Cody Dog, that story is a perfect example of what's wrong with America today and it makes me almost physically ill. In private I joke with my wife that if we let our child do what ever she wants now, she'll be running the house by the time she's 12-14. It sounds like that is exactly what is going on w/ your neighbors. You did the right thing by calling the cops. It's just tragic it had to come to that...especially for the 4 year old. Just what has to happen to someone in the family for the alarm to sound that the environment the live in is going toxic?

It will probably be something tragic and even then it most likely won’t be enough to stop the downward spiral…

It's just sad...

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Bad parenting? NO parenting? Lack of discipline?

That would be it. I see it all the time, up close and personal. It's the Sesame Street generation trying to raise kids without ever raising their voice or getting off of the couch. Can't be done, and now we're seeing the effects.

The REAL danger is for those of us who feel & think & act differently. Poor behavior is the most contagious thing in the universe, and it can be spread via TV and casual contact.