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willed · May 2, 2005, 03:22 AM

I don't quite get it. Why read MacNN or the BBC in RSS rather than seeing the stories in the normal way? I'm afraid I don't have a CoreImage Mac so can't use the RSS screen-saver, which I admit is a good idea, but what's so cool about using RSS in Safari itself?

Link · May 2, 2005, 03:25 AM

I coulda swore I was able to use the RSS screen saver before I had a 9600xt.. but the RSS thing is ... yeah.. not that exciting except on really poorly designed sites

Randman · May 2, 2005, 03:44 AM

The RSS Visualizer works just fine on my mini. No difference between that and the PB.

I'm liking the RSS feature on news/sports type pages. Perfect for ESPN.com and SI.com.

Krypton · May 2, 2005, 04:02 AM

The point of RSS is the ability to aggregate large amounts of info; instead of visiting 10 news sites, subscribe to the feeds and see all the latest stories, then click on the ones that look interesting.

It's meant to be a time saver of sorts (I find it useful using NetNewsWire) but if you don't visit a lot of sites you may find it redundant.

Mastrap · May 2, 2005, 06:34 AM

I am disappointed about the way it has been implemented. I was expecting a setup along the lines of NetNewsWire, just putting it into the bookmark bar is pretty useless. I'll continue to use NNW.

scaught · May 2, 2005, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

I am disappointed about the way it has been implemented. I was expecting a setup along the lines of NetNewsWire, just putting it into the bookmark bar is pretty useless. I'll continue to use NNW.

agreed.

im going to continue to use safari RSS for now (and do like the fancy screensaver, although its nothing more than a fancy screensaver, who reads news while theyre away?), but i do like the layout of NNW more with the headline w/ preview below. easier to scan through and see what i want to see.

and the other point of RSS (for me anyway) - no ads, quicker loading, always updating.

TETENAL · May 2, 2005, 08:33 AM

RSS sucks.

First of all, nobody wants to do this "news aggregation" nonsense when there are professional services that do that for you. MacNN aggregates the Macintosh news for me, Spiegel.de aggregates general news for me. No computer program can do that better than the professional editors of these services.

Second, since the sites can not advertise with RSS, they don't provide much more than the headlines. You have to resort to the HTML then anyway. So I could view the respective start page in the first place and be done with it.

turtle777 · May 2, 2005, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

RSS sucks.

First of all, nobody wants to do this "news aggregation" nonsense when there are professional services that do that for you. MacNN aggregates the Macintosh news for me, Spiegel.de aggregates general news for me. No computer program can do that better than the professional editors of these services.

Second, since the sites can not advertise with RSS, they don't provide much more than the headlines. You have to resort to the HTML then anyway. So I could view the respective start page in the first place and be done with it.

Well said, I have not found a clear advantage of RSS over regular new sites.

E.h. Heise.de is already very clear to read if you go to the 7-Day-News. Just the headlines, if you want to read more, click on it. RSS is going to do exactly the same.

-t

Mastrap · May 2, 2005, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

RSS sucks.

First of all, nobody wants to do this "news aggregation" nonsense when there are professional services that do that for you. MacNN aggregates the Macintosh news for me, Spiegel.de aggregates general news for me. No computer program can do that better than the professional editors of these services.

Second, since the sites can not advertise with RSS, they don't provide much more than the headlines. You have to resort to the HTML then anyway. So I could view the respective start page in the first place and be done with it.

We talked about this before and I still think that you're wrong.
I keep track of the news on about 60+ sites every day. Using NetNewsWire that takes me about 3 minutes. Using your system that would take me about an hour.
And yes, you can, and people do, advertise on RSS.

Turias · May 2, 2005, 10:03 AM

Another huge advantage to RSS is that you can get instant feedback as to which sites have been recently updated. I don't have to go to visit 15 sites just to see which have posted new articles. Instead, Safari tells me when they have been updated.

Eug Wanker · May 2, 2005, 10:10 AM

Safari RSS (aka Safari 2.0) rocks! After using it for one day, I began to hate Safari 1.3 on 10.3.9. Safari 2.0 is just so damn convenient.

I now never use NetNewsWire at all.

E's Lil Theorem · May 2, 2005, 10:12 AM

Bleh, RSS, RS-mesh. My beef with Safari 2.0 is this:

Originally Posted by mdc

this is not the case of having php turned off.
if you drag and drop a .php file into safari it displays the code of the page.

my webpage files are .php. they have all the regular html but a handful of php scripts. in < 1.3 if i dragged the file into safari it would display the page without any of the php scripts excecuted. this was fine with me since i could develop my sites on my local machine, then upload them to my web server and that has php installed.

now with safari you don't even see the html rendered.

oh well.

Now, that's craptacular!

Diggory Laycock · May 2, 2005, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

RSS sucks.

First of all, nobody wants to do this "news aggregation" nonsense when there are professional services that do that for you. MacNN aggregates the Macintosh news for me, Spiegel.de aggregates general news for me. No computer program can do that better than the professional editors of these services.

Second, since the sites can not advertise with RSS, they don't provide much more than the headlines. You have to resort to the HTML then anyway. So I could view the respective start page in the first place and be done with it.

Are you mad? Do your 'pro' aggregators let you know when someone's posted to your blog?
Do they let you know when someone's (committed to / added a bug report to the bug-tracking system of) an openSource project you're involved with.

RSS is not about "your own personal" newspaper laid out in the way you want - it's a notification system.

True, Safari's RSS features are not amazing - but they're not aimed at pros - their aimed at people who don't know about RSS. People who already use RSS will use a proper RSS app (like NNW.)

If they (Safari's RSS features) had been amazingly powerful - how many people would be complaining about Apple stomping on 3rd party devs' space?

Also - Safari is only an interface to Apple's Syndication services - e.g. the QuartzComposer Safari RSS screensaver uses the same system - even if Safari is not running.

Stradlater · May 2, 2005, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

RSS sucks.

First of all, nobody wants to do this "news aggregation" nonsense when there are professional services that do that for you. MacNN aggregates the Macintosh news for me, Spiegel.de aggregates general news for me. No computer program can do that better than the professional editors of these services.

Second, since the sites can not advertise with RSS, they don't provide much more than the headlines. You have to resort to the HTML then anyway. So I could view the respective start page in the first place and be done with it.

Good one.

Stradlater · May 2, 2005, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Turias

Another huge advantage to RSS is that you can get instant feedback as to which sites have been recently updated. I don't have to go to visit 15 sites just to see which have posted new articles. Instead, Safari tells me when they have been updated.

starman · May 2, 2005, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

We talked about this before and I still think that you're wrong.
I keep track of the news on about 60+ sites every day. Using NetNewsWire that takes me about 3 minutes. Using your system that would take me about an hour.
And yes, you can, and people do, advertise on RSS.

Exactly.

Mike

Turias · May 2, 2005, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

And yes, you can, and people do, advertise on RSS.

Mastrap is right. Take a look at Slashdot's RSS feed to see it in action, you non-believers.

ManOfSteal · May 2, 2005, 10:39 AM

I've never really used RSS before now, and I am loving it to say the least. This new version of Safari is absolutely 100%...dare I say...

New Hotness!

Stradlater · May 2, 2005, 10:41 AM

To reiterate:

Safari RSS is great because

1. Instant notification of a large number of updated sites and how much has been updated per site.
2. A way to view all updated sites in chronological order by updated entry in a single list or in several categorical lists (limited by folder; just BookmarksBar/News/Science please!).

I actually really like the way RSS has been implemented in Safari -- I prefer it to all the clients I've tried in the past. Yes, even NNW. I like having it implemented, having the option to scrollwheel-click entries and links-in-entries that interest me and have a tab in the same window pop up. I love the integration.

RE: TENETALIAN QUALMS

1. "Professional News Aggregators": They can be good. Macrumors.com does well enough to keep Appleinsider and Thinksecret out of my bookmarks. However, sometimes having several Mac sites that cover different things is helpful. If they all have RSS, I bookmark the feeds in the Mac folder and -- BAM -- a better aggregator.

2. "No advertising." Here you're just wrong. You've been told this before, yet you remain ignorantly adamant. Again: Whenever a site that provides RSS might feel that RSS viewings are exceeding site viewings, they can easily add ads. Nicely enough, in Safari RSS, a lot of these ads can be blocked by a cascading style sheet.

Turias · May 2, 2005, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Diggory Laycock

True, Safari's RSS features are not amazing - but they're not aimed at pros - their aimed at people who don't know about RSS. People who already use RSS will use a proper RSS app (like NNW.)

I disagree. I've been using RSS avidly for about a year, now, and I really like the new RSS functionality in Safari. I tried out NNW for a month or so, but just couldn't use it. I believe that a web browser and an RSS aggregator should be one and the same application. Constantly switching back and forth between Safari and NNW just wasn't working for me. Because of that, I switched to Firefox and the Sage extension. Sage didn't have the greatest interface in the world, but I was willing to live with it since I could surf and check RSS feeds from the same app.

Now I'm struggling between choosing Safari or Firefox as my main browser, again. Safari is better with RSS, but Firefox does better with Gmail and has such nice extensions. Sigh.

ManOfSteal · May 2, 2005, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Turias

Safari is better with RSS, but Firefox does better with Gmail and has such nice extensions. Sigh.

What can't Safari v2.0 do in Gmail that Firefox can? Just wondering.

Stradlater · May 2, 2005, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Turias

I disagree. I've been using RSS avidly for about a year, now, and I really like the new RSS functionality in Safari. I tried out NNW for a month or so, but just couldn't use it. I believe that a web browser and an RSS aggregator should be one and the same application. Constantly switching back and forth between Safari and NNW just wasn't working for me. Because of that, I switched to Firefox and the Sage extension. Sage didn't have the greatest interface in the world, but I was willing to live with it since I could surf and check RSS feeds from the same app.

Now I'm struggling between choosing Safari or Firefox as my main browser, again. Safari is better with RSS, but Firefox does better with Gmail and has such nice extensions. Sigh.

Stradlater · May 2, 2005, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by ManOfSteal

What can't Safari v2.0 do in Gmail that Firefox can? Just wondering.

Rich text, I believe.

Eug Wanker · May 2, 2005, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Turias

I disagree. I've been using RSS avidly for about a year, now, and I really like the new RSS functionality in Safari. I tried out NNW for a month or so, but just couldn't use it. I believe that a web browser and an RSS aggregator should be one and the same application. Constantly switching back and forth between Safari and NNW just wasn't working for me. Because of that, I switched to Firefox and the Sage extension. Sage didn't have the greatest interface in the world, but I was willing to live with it since I could surf and check RSS feeds from the same app.

Now I'm struggling between choosing Safari or Firefox as my main browser, again. Safari is better with RSS, but Firefox does better with Gmail and has such nice extensions. Sigh.

Agreed. Having basic RSS functionality in my browser is just so convenient.

I haven't even bothered Firefox on my Tiger systems. (I put MS back on one though, since my GF likes it for some reason, despite its ultra-slowness.)

Turias · May 2, 2005, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by ManOfSteal

What can't Safari v2.0 do in Gmail that Firefox can? Just wondering.

Rich text, for one, although I don't use it.

Mostly, I have found that Gmail "just acts strange" in Safari. Page loads are occasionally blank; I get stuck at "loading" on an initial request; the arrow and name at the bottom right of the screen in long threads "scrub" when I scroll instead of properly being redrawn. Overall, there just seem to be some weird quirks.

Eug Wanker · May 2, 2005, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Turias

Rich text, for one, although I don't use it.

Mostly, I have found that Gmail "just acts strange" in Safari. Page loads are occasionally blank; I get stuck at "loading" on an initial request; the arrow and name at the bottom right of the screen in long threads "scrub" when I scroll instead of properly being redrawn. Overall, there just seem to be some weird quirks.

Gmail works fine for me, although I don't use it much.

Interestingly, Gmail messages can be viewed with RSS.

Turias · May 2, 2005, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Interestingly, Gmail messages can be viewed with RSS.

Yeah, although that kinda weirds me out. As much as I like RSS, I feel that RSS was never meant to be an e-mail viewer. I prefer to use gCount for notifications and then my browser to read them the old-fashioned way.

ManOfSteal · May 2, 2005, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Turias

Yeah, although that kinda weirds me out. As much as I like RSS, I feel that RSS was never meant to be an e-mail viewer. I prefer to use gCount for notifications and then my browser to read them the old-fashioned way.

I prefer to read them through Mail.app actually...

Stradlater · May 2, 2005, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Turias

Yeah, although that kinda weirds me out. As much as I like RSS, I feel that RSS was never meant to be an e-mail viewer. I prefer to use gCount for notifications and then my browser to read them the old-fashioned way.

I prefer Mail.app, as well, but if you're going to use your browser for email anyways, you might as well use integrated RSS

MilkmanDan · May 2, 2005, 12:27 PM

RSS is ok. But honestly, how many blogs do you really read?

turtle777 · May 2, 2005, 12:31 PM

Uhm, I didn't know that blogs are meant to be read AT ALL. I thought it's just like a diary, with a lot of useless and confusing information in it...

-t

TETENAL · May 2, 2005, 12:37 PM

Yeah, blogs suck as well, but I refrained from posting my opinion about that or I would be declared crazy again by people who read 60+ news sites a day.

Eug Wanker · May 2, 2005, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by MilkmanDan

RSS is ok. But honestly, how many blogs do you really read?

Blogs? I guess you missed the posts in this thread saying that people use it for NEWS.

How about The Globe and Mail, or CNN, etc?

Stradlater · May 2, 2005, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Yeah, blogs suck as well, but I refrained from posting my opinion about that or I would be declared crazy again by people who read 60+ news sites a day.

You're still a moron. And you're still wrong about most of the stuff you've written in this thread (and others). And you still haven't even attempted to defend your nullified arguments.

wdlove · May 2, 2005, 12:43 PM

I don't have Tiger on my Mac. So I'm not even using Safari RSS.

Mastrap · May 2, 2005, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Yeah, blogs suck as well, but I refrained from posting my opinion about that or I would be declared crazy again by people who read 60+ news sites a day.

Just because you use the net your specific way, doesn't mean that everybody else does too. I use RSS to keep track of selected news (obvious), but also, and more importantly, to keep and eye on what the competition is doing and what's happening in the market.

And I still don't think you're getting this: RSS means you don't have to read 60+ news websites. That's the whole freaking point.