[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

CHARLESTON, West Virginia (AP) -- Even Jesus Christ can't circumvent the rules for getting a driver's license in West Virginia.

Attempts to prove his name really is Christ have led the man born as Peter Robert Phillips Jr. through a lengthy legal battle and a recent victory in the District of Columbia Court of Appeals.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/05/10/je....ap/index.html

[turtle777]

WTF ? Why is any idiot even allowed to change his name to J.C.



-t

[invisibleX]

Jesus is a name, Christ is a title. So he better cough up some miracles if he wants to pull that off. I'd go for killing a fig tree, that was bad-ass.

[historylme]

I wonder if there's a foto online about this guy.

[alphasubzero949]

Originally Posted by turtle777

WTF ? Why is any idiot even allowed to change his name to J.C.



-t

Exactly.

[The Windozer]

Originally Posted by invisibleX

Jesus is a name, Christ is a title. So he better cough up some miracles if he wants to pull that off. I'd go for killing a fig tree, that was bad-ass.

I thought Christ was his father's family name.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by The Windozer

I thought Christ was his father's family name.

That was sarcasm, right?

Christ, from Greek χριστός, means 'The Anointed One'. (From χρίειν, 'to anoint')

[gururafiki]

Jesus is a name, but adding Christ to your name is just silly.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by The Windozer

I thought Christ was his father's family name.

-t

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by turtle777

WTF ? Why is any idiot even allowed to change his name to J.C.

-t

Yeah, as opposed to in Europe, where certain geniuses name their kids osama. Why don't they just name their baby " I am the devil, please kick the living crap out of me." ?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Yeah, as opposed to in Europe, where certain geniuses name their kids osama. Why don't they just name their baby " I am the devil, please kick the living crap out of me." ?

Europe is not only one country with one legislation.

I can only speak of Germany, but they are VERY strict with how you call your kids.
Jesus as a first name is not allowed. You can not call your kid names of cartoon characters either. With any foreign name, you have to bring prove that this is a legit name in your home culture.

As far as Osama is concerned, there is nothing you can do about it. It's a normal first name in many countries. Just because one idiot with the name of Osama caused 9/11 is NOT a reason to forbid his name. Btw, you can still call a kid Adolf in Germany, this is the side of democracy that guards your freedom.

-t

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by turtle777

WTF ? Why is any idiot even allowed to change his name to J.C.



-t

Because we live in a free country.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by turtle777

As far as Osama is concerned, there is nothing you can do about it. It's a normal first name in many countries. Just because one idiot with the name of Osama caused 9/11 is NOT a reason to forbid his name. Btw, you can still call a kid Adolf in Germany, this is the side of democracy that guards your freedom.

-t

Osama was once a normal name perhaps, and so was Adolf, but anybody naming their kid osama post 9-11 deserves what's coming to them.

Since you're german, how many Adolfs do you know, born post 1945 ?

BTW - Hitler as a name is banned in Germany, and so is Bin Laden, so there's freedom for ya.

[mitchell_pgh]

This is my son... Jesus H. Christ

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by turtle777

Europe is not only one country with one legislation.

I can only speak of Germany, but they are VERY strict with how you call your kids.
Jesus as a first name is not allowed. You can not call your kid names of cartoon characters either. With any foreign name, you have to bring prove that this is a legit name in your home culture.

As far as Osama is concerned, there is nothing you can do about it. It's a normal first name in many countries. Just because one idiot with the name of Osama caused 9/11 is NOT a reason to forbid his name. Btw, you can still call a kid Adolf in Germany, this is the side of democracy that guards your freedom.

Exactly! (Okay, the last sentence was perhaps a bit over-the-top wishy-washy, but good point still)

You don't outlaw the name George just because one hugely unpopular person (I am talking about Bush, if you hadn't guessed) also carries it.

Danish rules are very similar to German ones, I think. You're allowed to name your child Jesus only if you can prove that Jesus is a common name in the country and culture you come from (ie. if you come from a Spanish-speaking country/culture, where Jesús is a fairly common name).

However, despite all the protection, there are still idiotic, moronic, super-humanly stupid parents who insist on doing everything in their power to turn their children's early years into a nightmare by attempting (sometimes even fighting in court - and mostly losing, thankfully - for the right) to call their children such things as 'Anus', 'Jingle-Bells', 'Stinky', or 'Shabalabalabalabalabalabalabalabalash'. One woman actually won, if I remember correctly, her case against the state, and was allowed to name her son Christophpher, with -phph-, where normally only -ff- or -ph- is allowed. I'm sure the consequences for the boy have been getting beat up that much more in school.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

Because we live in a free country.

What does freedom have to do with changing your name to some (random) historic religious leader ? That's freedom I can live WITHOUT ! Where would we go if suddenly all Christians in America want to change their last name to Christ ? Or all African-Americans suddenly want to be named ML King ? WTF ?

-t

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by turtle777

What does freedom have to do with changing your name to some (random) historic religious leader ? That's freedom I can live WITHOUT ! Where would we go if suddenly all Christians in America want to change their last name to Christ ? Or all African-Americans suddenly want to be named ML King ? WTF ?

-t

Mohamed.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Osama was once a normal name perhaps, and so was Adolf, but anybody naming their kid osama post 9-11 deserves what's coming to them.

Since you're german, how many Adolfs do you know, born post 1945 ?

Adolf was never a particularly popular name, as far as I know. I know (or have known) three or four people named Adolf, all born after 1945 I think (though one of them might have been older).

BTW - Hitler as a name is banned in Germany, and so is Bin Laden, so there's freedom for ya.

As are names such as 'Santa', 'Jesus' (except for the special circumstances described above); or last names such as 'Sh*tston', 'F*cktard', etc. This is one case where I for one have no problems with having restricted freedom. It's better than what some children with particularly vicious and/or idiotic parents might have to suffer otherwise.

They are of course not banned if either Hitler or Bin Laden happens to be your actual family name. You're just very unfortunate, then. Also, since they judge these things on a case-by-case basis, you would not be allowed to name your son Osama or Hitler if the family name is Bin Laden or Hitler, respectively, regardless of how common or accepted these names are.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Mohamed.

Enjoy your thumbsup from me, because it's not likely to happen too often.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Mohamed.

Different thing altogether. Mohamed (and all its variants) is a first name, comparable to Adolf, Jesus, or George [Bush], all of which are accepted first names. While Mohamed is no doubt popular in part because of the Prophet, it has nonetheless been possibly the most common first name for several centuries, and it is a perfectly regular first name - and was so before Mohamed the Prophet's time, too.

If there appeared a super-tyrant or spiritual leader called Adam Smith, would all people named either Adam or Smith be taking their names after this person? Hardly. But since Hitler is a rare name, and one that was completely unknown before Adolf Hitler, and Christ has never been a surname, but a title, it's fairly safe to say that anyone wanting to name themselves Hitler or Christ is taking the name from Adolf and Jesus respectively - or at least that that's how it will be seen by others.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Osama was once a normal name perhaps, and so was Adolf, but anybody naming their kid osama post 9-11 deserves what's coming to them.

Since you're german, how many Adolfs do you know, born post 1945 ?

BTW - Hitler as a name is banned in Germany, and so is Bin Laden, so there's freedom for ya.

I know an old German goldsmith whose name is Adolf. Now, granted, he was born before WWII. The last name Hitler can also be found in the phone book. I would say that, in the case of Adolf Hitler, it is his last name that is more notorious than his first.

[mitchell_pgh]

I guess I just like the idea that the government doesn't limit what I choose to call myself.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by turtle777

What does freedom have to do with changing your name to some (random) historic religious leader ? That's freedom I can live WITHOUT ! Where would we go if suddenly all Christians in America want to change their last name to Christ ? Or all African-Americans suddenly want to be named ML King ? WTF ?

-t

Because I am FREE to choose my name.

I'm sure you would be 100% against the goverment having a list of illegal names... and post an "Only in America" image.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

I guess I just like the idea that the government doesn't limit what I choose to call myself.

Even if you wanted to call yourself something that would doubtless have a very negative effect on your life?

How about what parents choose to call their children? After all, the child isn't the boss of its own name, so if there are no limitations, you might end up with children named (in the spirit of this whole thread) Jesus Adolf Hitler Osama Christ Bin Laden Junior the Second. Do you think that child would have a funny childhood?

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by The Windozer

I thought Christ was his father's family name.

Nope. Although the Romans used family names (the Julius in "Julius Caesar" being arguably the most famous example), the Hebrews of the time did not. When more unique identification than a given name was needed, they traced back through lineage. Family names were introduced later, when the Romans destroyed the lineage records. As Luke points out, from a legal standpoint Jesus was considered the son of Joseph. Were he to suddenly time-warp and move to modern America, the immigration officials would probably write down the last name of "Josephson" for him, but that concept wasn't a part of the culture in which he lived.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Oisín

Even if you wanted to call yourself something that would doubtless have a very negative effect on your life?

How about what parents choose to call their children? After all, the child isn't the boss of its own name, so if there are no limitations, you might end up with children named (in the spirit of this whole thread) Jesus Adolf Hitler Osama Christ Bin Laden Junior the Second. Do you think that child would have a funny childhood?

Actually, there's an unfortunate man in Austria whose name is Adolf Hittler (yes, he doubles the t). It's gotten him into trouble on more than one occasion.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Actually, there's an unfortunate man in Austria whose name is Adolf Hittler (yes, he doubles the t). It's gotten him into trouble on more than one occasion.

I can only imagine! Just think of all the strangers who must assume that he's a Neo-Nazi who chose this name for himself to revere the Führer, and thus scream abuse at him, or worse, take it to the physical level.

I wonder why he hasn't had his name changed...

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Oisín

Even if you wanted to call yourself something that would doubtless have a very negative effect on your life?

How about what parents choose to call their children? After all, the child isn't the boss of its own name, so if there are no limitations, you might end up with children named (in the spirit of this whole thread) Jesus Adolf Hitler Osama Christ Bin Laden Junior the Second. Do you think that child would have a funny childhood?

He is a 50 year old businessman that has gone by the name for 15 years. I don't think it's going to change much. You are free to do what you want with your name. If I want to get a tattoo of a swastika on my forehead... it's my choice. I don't see this as being any different.

If I knew someone that changed their name to Jesus Christ, YES, I would think he/she was crazy... but that's me.

I feel for children when their parents go off the deep end and call them something ridiculous. That being said, if it's very offensive, it could be viewed as child abuse and dealt with accordingly.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Actually, there's an unfortunate man in Austria whose name is Adolf Hittler (yes, he doubles the t). It's gotten him into trouble on more than one occasion.

If it was such a big deal, why doesn't he change it?

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

I guess I just like the idea that the government doesn't limit what I choose to call myself.

Ya they just don't let you get a drivers license after because even they can't believe another part of the government was stupid enough to allow something like that.

Freedom rocks

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by Oisín

Even if you wanted to call yourself something that would doubtless have a very negative effect on your life?

How about what parents choose to call their children? After all, the child isn't the boss of its own name, so if there are no limitations, you might end up with children named (in the spirit of this whole thread) Jesus Adolf Hitler Osama Christ Bin Laden Junior the Second. Do you think that child would have a funny childhood?

Like the kid that is called ESPN
People who choose weird names for their kids should be shot. I have no problem with a nut changing his name to something like ESPN, but naming your kid like that is just sick.
Now ESPN could be pronounced Espen which is somewhat normal, there are worse examples, but still...

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Oisín

I wonder why he hasn't had his name changed...

For some reason, I would think he likes the name if he is going to keep it. If nothing else, I would change my first name.

Joe Hittler sounds nice

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

Because I am FREE to choose my name.

Again, what does that have to do with freedom ?

Along the same line, nobody cries bloody murder just because you can NOT FREELY chose your SSN, or your date of birth.

-t

[turtle777]

^^^ Oh, and before someone real clever comes with the argument that your birth date is fixed by birth, SO THE HECK IS YOUR NAME ! Duh....

-t

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Ya they just don't let you get a drivers license after because even they can't believe another part of the government was stupid enough to allow something like that.

Freedom rocks

Did you even read the article?

"We just need official documentation that that's his name," said Doug Stump, commissioner of the West Virginia Division of Motor Vehicles. "He will be treated no different than anybody else."

They just need an updated birth certificate.

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

They just need an updated birth certificate.

What you need in the US is a proper Identity Card.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

They just need an updated birth certificate.

Can I update my BC to reflect a different mother, father, birth date, race etc ?

-t

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

He is a 50 year old businessman that has gone by the name for 15 years. I don't think it's going to change much. You are free to do what you want with your name. If I want to get a tattoo of a swastika on my forehead... it's my choice. I don't see this as being any different.

Okay, I can more or less agree with that - if some nutter wants to change his name to something ridiculous, let him. Though I can't see it as much of a freedom loss that there are limits. None of us live in a 'free country'. We all have various limitations to our freedoms. A 'free country' would, technically speaking, only be possible in a total anarchy, since even the fact that I'm not allowed to go out and kill whomever I feel like killing is a limitation to my freedom. The issue is where these limits are drawn, and I don't have a problem with drawing them in a place that prevents weird people from calling themselves Captain Xcqopqqztd de la Planet Q77cbmqaqzxt.

Edit: By the way, who's a 50-year-old business man? The Hittler guy?

I feel for children when their parents go off the deep end and call them something ridiculous. That being said, if it's very offensive, it could be viewed as child abuse and dealt with accordingly.

But wouldn't you agree that if you can prevent this 'indirect child abuse' before it even starts, that's better than stepping in when it might already have become a big psychological problem for the child?

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by turtle777

Can I update my BC to reflect a different mother, father, birth date, race etc ?

-t

Good point, does this mean that once you change your name in the states you completetly erase the "official" existence of the previous name ?

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by turtle777

Again, what does that have to do with freedom ?

Along the same line, nobody cries bloody murder just because you can NOT FREELY chose your SSN, or your date of birth.

-t

FREEDOM. I am FREE to change my name to whatever I like. The government does not tell me what I can and can not call myself. I have the FREEDOM to change my name as many times as I like.

No, you can't pick you SSN, but if you don't like it, you can have it changed. It's a little form you fill out.

Your date of birth is finite. That's like saying "I want you to say my eye color is blue" when it's not. Your name is not finite.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

What you need in the US is a proper Identity Card.

No, that's against FREEDOM and unpatriotic

[/ argument...]

-t

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

Good point, does this mean that once you change your name in the states you completetly erase the "official" existence of the previous name ?

No, on your credit report, it has all known names and SSNs. If you change either, it follows you.

[Goldfinger]

EDIT: I was lolling at turtle's post.

How are people without a drivers license identified in the US ? Do you have some form of ID ?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

No, you can't pick you SSN, but if you don't like it, you can have it changed. It's a little form you fill out.

Why not the same for names. A little form to apply for a new name, and you get a new name assigned. John F* Smith or so. That's more freedom than anyone needs...

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

Your date of birth is finite.

Really ? Why not par ordre du mufti declare the birth name finite ?

-t

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by turtle777

^^^ Oh, and before someone real clever comes with the argument that your birth date is fixed by birth, SO THE HECK IS YOUR NAME ! Duh....

-t

But we "make up" your name... we don't "make up" the day your are born.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

But we "make up" your name... we don't "make up" the day your are born.

You (personally) made up your own name as much as you made up your birth date. Nada. Zilch. Zero.

-t

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by turtle777

Why not the same for names. A little form to apply for a new name, and you get a new name assigned. John F* Smith or so. That's more freedom than anyone needs...

Really ? Why not par ordre du mufti declare the birth name finite ?

-t

Because we make up the name... we don't make up the birth date.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by turtle777

You (personally) made up your own name as much as you made up your birth date. Nada. Zilch. Zero.

-t

Your logic is flawed. You are trying to compare a scientifically measurable item TIME with something "made up" a NAME.

And talk about changing the subject.

[turtle777]

Ok, so besides a ego boost and self-actualization, what inherent "freedom" advantage does it have that one can change his own name ?

-t

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

EDIT: I was lolling at turtle's post.

How are people without a drivers license identified in the US ? Do you have some form of ID ?

Most states give a "photo ID" which is a drivers license (without the driving part). It requires the same backup to obtain.

You also generally need a birth certificate, SS card, etc. Granted, these can (and have) been faked.