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nickw311 · May 12, 2005, 09:37 AM

I am a Junior in college and am very seriously considering going to Law School. I am signed up to take the June 6th LSAT and am very anxious and nervious about it but I am also looking forward to it. I have been preparing for it, however not enough in my opinion. I work 40 hrs a week and on the weekends I go out with my friends too much.

Anyway, I wanted to get people on here's opinions of Law School and how the LSAT was.

Thanks!

SimeyTheLimey · May 12, 2005, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by nickw311

I am a Junior in college and am very seriously considering going to Law School. I am signed up to take the June 6th LSAT and am very anxious and nervious about it but I am also looking forward to it. I have been preparing for it, however not enough in my opinion. I work 40 hrs a week and on the weekends I go out with my friends too much.

Anyway, I wanted to get people on here's opinions of Law School and how the LSAT was.

Thanks!

The LSAT sucks, but a good score is important if you want to get into a good law school. Make sure you take a prep course. It's well worth the money. 7 or 8 points on your score could mean the difference between a first tier school, and a third tier one. That difference can have lasting career implications, so don't scrimp now.

sworthy · May 12, 2005, 10:34 AM

Yea, I look the LSAT last year and it is definitely worth taking a class (I used princeton review). They were especially helpful on the logic section as it's dissimilar to any other standardized test I've ever taken. Oh, and I still didn't do as well as I wanted.

nickw311 · May 12, 2005, 11:18 AM

Isn't the Princeton Review course like a thousand dollars?

cpt kangarooski · May 12, 2005, 11:54 AM

I'm not going to recommend a class, but I wouldn't recommend against one, either. I did not take a class, and still did very well just having studied a little with some practice exams. The logic puzzles are the most trouble, not due to their difficulty, but the extremely short amount of time provided to work on them. Still, given how little time there is before your test, it might be a good idea to err on the side of caution and take the class.

At any rate, I liked law school so much I took classes in the summer and went back for an extra year for another degree. The LSAT wasn't difficult IMO other than the logic puzzles. Fortunately, once you're in legal practice you'll find that clients will only need you to figure out who sat next to who, and ate what, based on where other people sat and ate, a few times, tops.

I work 40 hrs a week and on the weekends I go out with my friends too much.

Well, don't worry -- once you're an associate you'll work more hours per week and not get to go out with your friends so much on the weekend.

SimeyTheLimey · May 12, 2005, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by nickw311

Isn't the Princeton Review course like a thousand dollars?

Probably. Kaplan was. But in my opinion, you'd be a fool not to invest in one or other of the prep courses. That is assuming you really are serious about going to law school. The schools look at your LSAT scores very carefully, and make roughly 50% of the admission decision based on it. You might do well enough to get in without a prep test, but if not, you are screwed. Even if you retake the test most schools will not ignore the previous one. The usually average all scores taken.

Of course, if you aren't worried about getting into that top tier of schools this doesn't matter so much. The LSAT curve is kind of exponential. If you are only worried about getting a middling school then it isn't so hard (depending on your undergrad record). But the competitition nearer the top is very steep and a couple of points can make all the difference. My advice: pay the thousand. It's cheap insurance.

By the way, tonight I take my last law school exam.

I'd be happier, but there is that bar thing . . .

nickw311 · May 12, 2005, 12:17 PM

Thanks for the words of wisdom all, if you don't mind me asking, where did you or are you attending law school at?

SimeyTheLimey · 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by nickw311

Thanks for the words of wisdom all, if you don't mind me asking, where did you or are you attending law school at?

Georgetown.

Edit to add: don't start worrying about comparing schools yet. You need to know what your scores are before you can do that. Once you have your LSAT and GPA you can go to the US News site and see how you measure up. The worst thing you could do now is start worrying about which school you want to go to. You will either be diappointed if you aim too high, or you won't try hard enough if you have your heart set too low.

finboy · May 12, 2005, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

Edit to add: don't start worrying about comparing schools yet.

He's right. Focus on getting your LSAT scores as high as they can be. It doesn't sound to me like you've spent enough time preparing. Maybe you should postpone taking it until you're ready. I tell students to do that with the GMAT and GRE all the time. I guess LSAT schedules are different, but you do yourself no good if you take it too early.

The difference between taking a prep course and not taking one can be like night and day in terms of score.

If you have trouble motivating yourself into studying, get a study coach that will pull you along, or find someone else that is taking it to study with.

Captain Obvious · May 12, 2005, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by nickw311

I have been preparing for it, however not enough in my opinion. I work 40 hrs a week and on the weekends I go out with my friends too much.

If you don’t feel prepared for it then you probably aren’t.
Kaplan or Princeton Review classes are worth it. If you feel it is expensive then you should really take a look at the cost of law school again. Doing poorly could mean ending up at a school you are not happy with and still paying over 100K in tuition. Even if you test well or have read through all the tips found in books the time spent in the classes and practice tests make the course worthwhile. If nothing else you’ll get an impartial critique of what your weak points are so you can focus on improving them.

It doesn’t sound like you are prepared for the test and haven’t taken it seriously enough.
You need to make a sacrifice somewhere. Cut back on work, give up the social life for a few months, or wait until you graduate when you have more time. I personally would just postpone the test until the fall so you can take Kaplan over the summer.

The test isn’t hard but you need to be prepared for it. Cramming in the test exercises over three weeks probably won’t help you much at this point.

zigzag · May 12, 2005, 05:59 PM

The night before I took the LSAT some 25 years ago, my girlfriend came home drunk with 2 of her friends and they all danced topless around my apartment. I recommend it.

ShortcutToMoncton · May 12, 2005, 07:06 PM

I should be taking my LSATs in about a year or so as well. Luckily for me, I'm not looking to get into great and fantastic US law schools...hopefully, the University of Calgary's Law School will be kind enough to accept me.

I figure, a Bachelor of Science with an Environmental Biology major? What could be BETTER for Law School?!!?!

greg

alligator · May 12, 2005, 08:49 PM

Okay, from someone else who's been there and done that (9 years ago), I can tell you this. Relax. You'll never study enough to feel comfortable. You'll always wish you did more, got a better score, and got into a better school.

When you get out, join a firm or a corporation (gasp!, yes, corporate life is nice too!), you'll realize that in 9 years it really didn't matter as much as you thought. You'll make a ton of money, you'll have fun doing what you enjoy, and you'll find other things in life that also matter.

What I would work on is (1) minimizing school loans; (2) enjoying the educational experience; and (3) finding some aspect of the law you really enjoy. For me, it's intellectual property.

Again, relax and just do your best. It will never be "enough".

Spliff · May 12, 2005, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by alligator

You'll make a ton of money, you'll have fun doing what you enjoy, and you'll find other things in life that also matter.

Can someone tell me what's fun about being a lawyer, beside the money? Isn't it just spending 80 hours per week doing other people's paperwork ? For instance, how could anyone find insurance law fun?

Seriously, if someone could explain what lawyers (especially, solicitors) actually do on the average day, I'd appreciate it.

jnrjr79 · May 13, 2005, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Spliff

Can someone tell me what's fun about being a lawyer, beside the money? Isn't it just spending 80 hours per week doing other people's paperwork ? For instance, how could anyone find insurance law fun?

Seriously, if someone could explain what lawyers (especially, solicitors) actually do on the average day, I'd appreciate it.

Well, having conducted a couple of criminal trials, I can tell you that courtroom work is quite fun.

Just took my last law school exam yesterday. If you're taking the LSAT, I can't recommend anything but taking a prep course. I took Kaplan and it raised my score 8 or 9 points, if I recall correctly. And as people are saying, it is the logic games part where you will see the most improvement.

Spliff · May 13, 2005, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by jnrjr79

Well, having conducted a couple of criminal trials, I can tell you that courtroom work is quite fun.

A barrister's job can be fun. But I'm asking about being a solicitor. What fun is there to be had in doing other people's dull paperwork? That's what I want to know. Is there anything enjoyable about being a solicitor, especially given the very long hours they work?

SimeyTheLimey · May 13, 2005, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Spliff

A barrister's job can be fun. But I'm asking about being a solicitor. What fun is there to be had in doing other people's dull paperwork? That's what I want to know. Is there anything enjoyable about being a solicitor, especially given the very long hours they work?

The US has a unitary profession. We don't have barristers and solicitors, but people do specialize in certain types of work. Most lawyers don't litigate, and even fewer do criminal law.

If what you mean is what is interesting for a transactional or regulatory lawyer in a large firm or in house then I suppose the simplest answer is that they get satisfaction from solving difficult problems for their clients, or preventing them from arising. That is basically what a lawyer does. Your idea that they just do other people's "dull paperwork" isn't very accurate. Lawyers are professionals, not copy clerks. Nobody rational would pay the fees that lawyers charge if they could do the work themselves. When you have a large corporate client they only pass on the difficult issues that are so complex that they need specialists to figure them out and tell them what to do. Then the lawyers get to wrestle with them, use their judgment and expertise and produce an answer. And of course, there are the litigators down the hall to fix it when it is broken. They also have complex issues to negotiate which are intellectually interesting. They also get to wrestle minds with the lawyers on the other side and get the satisfaction of hopefully winning at the end.

Other lawyers assemble large business deals and other transactions. They use legal skills, but in many ways they are as much businesspeople as lawyers. Their work is no more dull than many other business jobs, and probably more intellectually challenging than most. They get to specialize in those complex transactions, whereas the people in the businesses do them much more rarely.

So yes, long hours, much stress and a good deal of grunt work. But those who like it seem to like it a lot -- at least that is what they told me when they were trying to get me to join those kinds of firms.

Those who don't enjoy it find other things to do. The nice thing about the legal profession is that it encompasses everything from the high pressure wall street type jobs to the local lawyer in the small towns, the public defender, or the prosecutor. It's not just one thing, but it all starts with the same training.

However, ask me again in a couple of years. I'm about to enter my (for want of a better word) apprenticeship period and expect to be suitably miserable (but well paid).

Spliff · May 13, 2005, 08:12 PM

Thanks, Simey. As ever, your posts are informative and well-written. I hope that law school won't wreck your writing style

alligator · May 13, 2005, 08:30 PM

Let me put it this way. I'm a problem solver. I also take satisfaction in being a profit center for my company. I spend a small fortune obtaining patents, but I make a larger fortune for the company by licensing and enforcing them. Do I like everything I do each day? No. Do I like it enough to come to work every day? Yes. There will always be things that people dislike about their jobs, but lets hope the good outweigh the bad.