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goMac · May 14, 2005, 12:10 AM

Well... I was expecting it but...

They cut it really poorly. And the end. They take the most important speech in the whole Federation and give it an "end program". Ugh.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 14, 2005, 12:28 AM

I just liked watching the TNG sets in Hi def.

Anywho, my life has been so much trek and the first 2 seasons of Enterprise were so damn bad they deserved to get cancelled.

I've moved onto better things like Dr. Who and BSG.

goMac · May 14, 2005, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

I just liked watching the TNG sets in Hi def.

Anywho, my life has been so much trek and the first 2 seasons of Enterprise were so damn bad they deserved to get cancelled.

I've moved onto better things like Dr. Who and BSG.

Yeah, the Dalek episode wasn't bad. I don't have cable at college so I'm catching up on BSG right now.

The only thing I liked in the Enterprise finale is how they tied it in with the Pegasus episode. I did NOT like how Riker was playing parts in the Enterprise crew.

Chuckit · May 14, 2005, 12:50 AM

Rest of Enterprise also = Horribleness

Lateralus · May 14, 2005, 01:08 AM

It's finally over...

sideus · May 14, 2005, 03:27 AM

Thanks god. Now Bakula can work on bringing Quantum Leap back.

Athens · May 14, 2005, 03:30 AM

I cant believe Ive been watching New Star Trek shows for 18 years now. This is gonig to be the first time in 18 years there are no new shows.

Star Trek long second run, 1987 to 2005

tooki · May 14, 2005, 10:45 AM

What was up with Troi's accent? It's like Marina Sirtis forgot her "Deanna Troi" speech. But I agree... 'twas not a great episode.

tooki

nredman · May 14, 2005, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

I just liked watching the TNG sets in Hi def.

Anywho, my life has been so much trek and the first 2 seasons of Enterprise were so damn bad they deserved to get cancelled.

I've moved onto better things like Dr. Who and BSG.

starman · May 14, 2005, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Athens

I cant believe Ive been watching New Star Trek shows for 18 years now. This is gonig to be the first time in 18 years there are no new shows.

Star Trek long second run, 1987 to 2005

Pfft. Amateur. I've been watching Trek since it was first run on NBC!

Mike

olePigeon · May 14, 2005, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by sideus

Thanks god. Now Bakula can work on bringing Quantum Leap back.

Enterprise coulda passed for a Quantum Leap miniseries.

Eug Wanker · May 14, 2005, 06:59 PM

Yes, those last few episodes truly sucked. Much like most of the first two seasons... And I didn't like that Tholian mirror web thang either.

Now when is BSG coming to DVD in Canada? And when they do I hope they're not as devoid of extras as the UK release.

BTW, does anyone know if BSG Season 2 will start in Canada at the same time, or will we have to wait again (despite it being shot in Canada with lots of Canadian actors)?

sideus · May 14, 2005, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Enterprise coulda passed for a Quantum Leap miniseries.

My sister was watching Stargate SG-1 and I walked into the room and said "Wow! MacGyver is in the Air Force now!"

ghporter · May 14, 2005, 08:02 PM

I have both hours of Enterprise from Friday on tape, and I haven't been able to watch them yet. I actually liked the first part of "Demons." Peter Weller is always strong in any role, and if he could survive being "Buckaroo Bonzai" and "Robocop," he can chew scenery as a 22nd Century bad guy.

Like Starman, I began watching Star Trek long ago. I remember not having a color television for the first two seasons, and when we finally got color, they cancelled the show!

Long wait, then in 1979 a movie! Then another, and another! Oh boy! Then another still and a NEW series! Goody goody goody! Then life stepped in. In '87 my family and I got sent to Panama, and everything changed. I got a few Next Generation episodes on tape from friends and family, but it's not the same. We got out of the habit of watching TV most of the time.

When we got back to the States, we got into school, our son, and lots of work, so we didn't start watching much television then. In fact, we managed to pretty much miss both Deep Space 9 and Voyager because of homework, late hours, and one short overseas tour. Now that things have been stable for a while and we've at least managed to regularly tape what we want to watch, one of those things is cancelled. Bummer.

Enterprise is why we upgraded our satellite TV subscription for local channels. I'm sad. I mean with the overall body of work that is Star Trek, you can choose a lot of episodes and say "See, this was tripe." But you can also grab some and say "Why didn't this one win an award?"

A few years ago, we were selected to be a Nielson Family and log what we watched for a month. It added up to: The Weather Channel, CNN, some Cartoon Network, and not much else. Considering what passes for "entertainment" lately, I don't think we're missing much. But what we want to watch, we'd like to have available. We LIKED Enterprise-even with some less than stellar episodes-and we're all upset that UPN thought of us as a given audience and cancelled the show. With the rest of their lineup, I guarantee they aren't getting ANY viewership from us!

Oneota · May 14, 2005, 10:57 PM

**Spoilers**

I thought it wasn't all bad, personally. I do wish they had done the future bits on Riker's new ship instead of tying it to the Pegasus episode, though; Frakes and Sirtis have aged too much for it to be believable. I also wish they had put a little more effort into the Enterprise-D's 3D renderings - it was nowhere NEAR as good as the actual, physical model they used during TNG. I also wish they hadn't killed Trip. If the fans ever regroup and demand a movie, he won't be able to be in it, which is too bad 'cause he was my favorite character.

greenamp · May 15, 2005, 03:11 AM

**spoilers**

Worst episode of Enterprise EVER. Space thugs catch up to an board enterprise, Trip all the sudden decides he must sacrifice himself to save Archer (absolutely no subplot which led us to believe he had no other choice), he dies and afterwards Archer, his best pal, shows no emotion at all.

And then, like the 1 thing that was the most important event which could have been shown and related to Enterprise/Archer directly (Archers speech) was cut off by "computer, end program."

So the whole Enterprise series was one big holodeck reenactment. Sigh.

Now there's no doubt in my mind why Ent was canceled. After this final and worst episode, I say good riddance.

D. Hendrickson · May 15, 2005, 03:20 AM

Originally Posted by Oneota

I also wish they hadn't killed Trip. If the fans ever regroup and demand a movie, he won't be able to be in it, which is too bad 'cause he was my favorite character.

sure he can be in it, it just has to be inbetween the end of the "regular" eps (4 years on the ship) and the finale (10 years on the ship).

and there's the old Star Trek stand-by: time travel.

of course they saved the best for last: i think the Picard/Kirk/Archer speech at the end was the best part of the last 4 years...

Athens · May 15, 2005, 04:43 AM

Originally Posted by starman

Pfft. Amateur. I've been watching Trek since it was first run on NBC!

Mike

I wasent even born or a thought yet when the first series started. Hell I was just a fetus when Star Trek The Motion Picture came out.

Superchicken · May 15, 2005, 04:59 AM

After B5 all other Sci Fi just seems cheap and poorly thought out...

Athens · May 15, 2005, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by Superchicken

After B5 all other Sci Fi just seems cheap and poorly thought out...

Babylon 5 was one of the best scifi shows ever IMHO. I really wish they had extended it, and I would love to see some movies based on B5

starman · May 15, 2005, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by Athens

Babylon 5 was one of the best scifi shows ever IMHO. I really wish they had extended it, and I would love to see some movies based on B5

JMS' whole idea was to do 5 years and that's it. We knew that going into it. You have to give the guy a lot of credit for what he did.

Mike

Millennium · May 15, 2005, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by starman

JMS' whole idea was to do 5 years and that's it.

Actually, IIRC his original intent was only four years; the fifth season was an extension. This was part of the whole point: the entire plot had been outlined and dealt with before the first episode went into production. This allowed them to do things you just plain can't do with most series, even most ongoing series, such as foreshadowing and back-referencing without having to worry about discontinuities. There were one or two interesting problems that popped up along the way, but the closed plotline was a large part of what made it so good.

Frankly, I'm surprised that Season 5 was as good as it was. I doubt that even JMS could have kept it going for much longer than he did.

Eug Wanker · May 15, 2005, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Oneota

I thought it wasn't all bad, personally. I do wish they had done the future bits on Riker's new ship instead of tying it to the Pegasus episode, though; Frakes and Sirtis have aged too much for it to be believable. I also wish they had put a little more effort into the Enterprise-D's 3D renderings - it was nowhere NEAR as good as the actual, physical model they used during TNG. I also wish they hadn't killed Trip. If the fans ever regroup and demand a movie, he won't be able to be in it, which is too bad 'cause he was my favorite character.

I've always hated the Riker character (mostly because of Jonathan Frakes acting, and yep, it was just as bad in the Enterprise finale.

Oneota · May 15, 2005, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by greenamp

**spoilers**

So the whole Enterprise series was one big holodeck reenactment. Sigh.

No, not the whole thing. Just that last mission. You don't think Riker had time to watch 10 years worth of missions while searching for the Pegasus, do you?

Lateralus · May 15, 2005, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Millennium

Actually, IIRC his original intent was only four years; the fifth season was an extension. This was part of the whole point: the entire plot had been outlined and dealt with before the first episode went into production. This allowed them to do things you just plain can't do with most series, even most ongoing series, such as foreshadowing and back-referencing without having to worry about discontinuities. There were one or two interesting problems that popped up along the way, but the closed plotline was a large part of what made it so good.

Frankly, I'm surprised that Season 5 was as good as it was. I doubt that even JMS could have kept it going for much longer than he did.

No, it was originally written for five seasons.

What had happened was that at around the beginning of Season 4 production, Warner Brothers had said there would not likely be a 5th season. So he was forced to condense the final two seasons worth of story into one season.

Originally, The Shadow War was to have occupied all of Season 4 with the Earth Civil War starting either at the end of Season 4 or the beginning of Season 5.

Season 5 ended up only being sorta improvised. It wasn't a part of the original 5 season idea, but JMS had written the Babylon 5 story line long before the station was built and long after the 5 season story. He just dipped into that to create Season 5.

ghporter · May 15, 2005, 03:30 PM

Yesterday I wrote that I hadn't seen the last episode, and that I was keeping an open mind. This morning I saw it, and I'm terribly disappointed. Jolene was right, it was horrible. The story did not flow well with Riker and Troi as observers, who served no apparent purpose in getting the Enterprise story told. The connection with the Pegasus was completely lost on me-how could Trip sacrificing himself have a bearing on Riker telling Picard about the Pegasus? Trip's death was gratuitous and completely unnecessary, and as someone else noted, the bad guys catching up with Enterprise and boarding in force was just plain dumb. Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens, who are credited with the story, should know better than that.

While I only have a 27" CRT television, I thought the effects were pretty good-I didn't pay too much aattention to details on Enterprise D, but it seemed to be fairly well done. Obviously the compositing was perfect, unlike what they were able to do with the model photography, but I still got the impression that I was looking at CGI anyway... Wierd.

The acting, particularly on the part of the Enterprise regular cast, was very good; they were portraying their characters six years after the previous episode, and did a very good job of it. But the acting in "Terra Prime" was better because the story was truer. I watched the second half of "Terra Prime" right before "These Are The Voyages..", and I liked it quite a bit. The finale was strong and true to Star Trek and the characters. That would have been a fine last episode...

Eug Wanker · May 15, 2005, 03:36 PM

Jolene was right, it was horrible.

I agree, but do you have a link to where she said that? I hadn't seen that.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 15, 2005, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

I agree, but do you have a link to where she said that? I hadn't seen that.

http://www.trektoday.com/news/090505_02.shtml

JHromadka · May 15, 2005, 06:33 PM

At least it wasn't as cheap as the end of Voyager where we see them in Earth's orbit...and that was it.

I too would rather have seen the Riker/Troi bit set in the future past "The Pegasus".

The Trip/Riker thing was Trip went against Archer and led the aliens off to kill them in order to save his captain (duty over orders). Riker then did the same and told Picard the truth about the Pegasus, disobeying a direct order from an admiral. A bit of a stretch, but I think that's what they were going for.

Oneota · May 15, 2005, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by JHromadka

The Trip/Riker thing was Trip went against Archer and led the aliens off to kill them in order to save his captain (duty over orders). Riker then did the same and told Picard the truth about the Pegasus, disobeying a direct order from an admiral. A bit of a stretch, but I think that's what they were going for.

I think we got that, we're just saying that as a premise for a series finale, it kinda stunk.

loki74 · May 15, 2005, 07:49 PM

Heres what would have been cool...
Archer from "In a Mirror, Darkly" comes back to life and kicks that guy who took Schran's kid's ass. And none of that stuff from TNG. I think that was just gay. And I wanted to hear the freaking speech.

As for the rest of the season... I think we lacked character development. Unlike many "Trekkies" I enjoyed very much Star Trek: Voyager. I think they made it a whole lot less nerdy, and they spent a lot of time developing charaters. There are a number of episodes where the entre thing is devoted to the development of a single character. I mean you knew very well pretty much the entire bridge compliment plus B'Lana, Neelix, and 7 of 9. Even on TNG, DS9, and hell even the original you knew a lot of characters pretty well. On Enterprise, they only really developed Trip, Archer, T'Pol, and maybe Phlox. I mean, I knew as much about Hoshi, Ried, and Mayweather as I did about Porthos. Well actually they kind of started developing Ried w/ that whole secret life thing he had, but thats a day late and a dollar short.

While shortcomings it had, I am sad to see Enterprise end. Hopefully they'll make a new Trek series someday, and do it right. Wishful thinking never hurt anyone

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 16, 2005, 12:38 AM

And we never found out who future guy was...

TheJoshu · May 16, 2005, 02:31 AM

1. How embarrassing that the Enterprise finale had to be packaged as a TNG episode. Goes to prove how that show never grew legs.

2. Riker/Troi interaction was some of the thinnest dialogue ever. It was clearly cooked up with about a minute to spare. Unpleasant.

3. The ending - clearly the "these are the voyages..." intro line WAS his speech to the Federation. Get it? There we go!

goMac · May 16, 2005, 02:49 AM

Originally Posted by TheJoshu

1. How embarrassing that the Enterprise finale had to be packaged as a TNG episode. Goes to prove how that show never grew legs.

2. Riker/Troi interaction was some of the thinnest dialogue ever. It was clearly cooked up with about a minute to spare. Unpleasant.

3. The ending - clearly the "these are the voyages..." intro line WAS his speech to the Federation. Get it? There we go!

These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise? In it's continuing mission to seek out new life and strange civilizations? To boldly go where no one has gone before?

No, thats the intro speech to every Star Trek episode. That too, was a cop out.

TheJoshu · May 16, 2005, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise? In it's continuing mission to seek out new life and strange civilizations? To boldly go where no one has gone before?

No, thats the intro speech to every Star Trek episode. That too, was a cop out.

Yeah - I know.

Cop out, sure, but that's as close as I can get to fitting those moments together.

starman · May 16, 2005, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

And we never found out who future guy was...

HAHA! You serious? I'm glad I invested ZERO time into that show.

Mike

ghporter · May 16, 2005, 08:32 AM

TATV was just bad. I've read fan fiction by teenagers that was better, had fewer holes and more continuity, and screwed around with the whole idea of Star Trek a lot less.

olePigeon · May 16, 2005, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by JHromadka

At least it wasn't as cheap as the end of Voyager where we see them in Earth's orbit...and that was it.

It wasn't that bad, but it was disappointing. It's like they had plans for some huge 4 hour two parter, but then decided 1 hour would be enough and cut it all together.

* SPOILERS *

Well, the follow up book explains why their homecoming was so lackluster. 3/4 of the entire fleet was destroyed or disabled because of both the Dominion war and the Borg attack. Star Fleet had reports of another Borg invasion (and they were right, but they didn't know Voyager had destroyed the warp gate thingies) and sent what ships they had left to stop the Borg.

When Voyager got home, there was a short, formal party. "Ensign" Kim finally got promoted to Lieutenant (2 full promotions) and all the Maquis were pardoned given the current situation between the Federation and the Kardasians. The entire Federation was working around the clock trying to rebuild the fleet and didn't have the time or resources for a huge celebrations.

JHromadka · May 16, 2005, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

It wasn't that bad, but it was disappointing. It's like they had plans for some huge 4 hour two parter, but then decided 1 hour would be enough and cut it all together.

* SPOILERS *

Well, the follow up book explains why their homecoming was so lackluster. 3/4 of the entire fleet was destroyed or disabled because of both the Dominion war and the Borg attack. Star Fleet had reports of another Borg invasion (and they were right, but they didn't know Voyager had destroyed the warp gate thingies) and sent what ships they had left to stop the Borg.

When Voyager got home, there was a short, formal party. "Ensign" Kim finally got promoted to Lieutenant (2 full promotions) and all the Maquis were pardoned given the current situation between the Federation and the Kardasians. The entire Federation was working around the clock trying to rebuild the fleet and didn't have the time or resources for a huge celebrations.

I wasn't expecting a celebration. I wanted to see how the crew reintegrated themselves with life on Earth, particularly 7/9. Instead we get a shot of ADMIRAL Janeway on ST:I.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 16, 2005, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by JHromadka

I wasn't expecting a celebration. I wanted to see how the crew reintegrated themselves with life on Earth, particularly 7/9. Instead we get a shot of ADMIRAL Janeway on ST:I.

I thought so at first as well but I think I figured it out. The logic behind the quick end is because they showed it all at the beginning (Voyagers flying under the bridge). Granted that is the party after it took them 17 years to get home but same thing really.

As for the few ships greeting voyager it is because they weren't expecting them. I mean all within 1 min a portal opens, a group of starfleet ships that can get to that point in 50 seconds and all of a sudden Voyager nukes the borg from the inside. Hell everyone didn't know what to make of it, even on Voyager.

greenamp · May 17, 2005, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

http://www.trektoday.com/news/090505_02.shtml

She hit the nail on the head. The way they developed T'Pol was just STUPID. Vulcans are known in trek to be strong, determined, and unemotional. I can see a writer wanting to create a dynamic sub-plot with one vulcan struggling with his/her culture, but making him/her an over-emotional, weak drug addict was not the way to do it.

And regarding future guy, the plot hinted at him being Romulan but never drew the solid connection, which I think was the point of the ending in KIR'SHARA albeit quite weak.

Meh, the more I think about the series finale and the series as a whole, the more pissed off I get.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 17, 2005, 03:08 PM

On a side note the Enterprise D looks soo soo much better as a 3D model in HD than the real model on the show years ago. But that is to be expected.

shabbasuraj · May 17, 2005, 06:32 PM

I hope the next Trek franchise (knock on wood) is based in the year 5 pajillion....

LOL.

Oneota · May 17, 2005, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

On a side note the Enterprise D looks soo soo much better as a 3D model in HD than the real model on the show years ago. But that is to be expected.

Hm. I thought just the opposite, personally (see my first post in this thread). I've always preferred composite shots with real models to CG. They just haven't gotten the lighting down, IMO.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 18, 2005, 02:37 PM

I noticed like some trek Nazi that the Enterprise D 's turbolift looked nothing like the original. Turns out they used a movie one and actually rebuilt just about everything.

http://www.trektoday.com/news/180505_02.shtml

Oneota · May 18, 2005, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Turns out they used a movie one and actually rebuilt just about everything.

...Except that they stole the opening Ten Forward shot from "Menage a Troi". It looked really bad, cutting from that old SD footage to the HD footage of the rebuilt set.

buffalolee · May 19, 2005, 09:29 AM

The part that was confusing was...

- Troi says something about Trip not making it back from the trip
- Trip is back on the ship
- Trip sacrafices himself for Archer
- Trip was dying on the bed
- Trip gave a healthy wink to Archer before he died making it look like he faked it
- Archer & T'Pol mourning over Trip
- Trip shows up at the kitchen where Riker was cooking

Did he actually die? I am assuming yes.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 19, 2005, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by buffalolee

The part that was confusing was...

- Trip shows up at the kitchen where Riker was cooking

Did he actually die? I am assuming yes.

The kitchen scene was a flashback to right before he died.