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Kerrigan · May 30, 2005, 10:45 PM

I'm not just talking about faith in God, but rather, faith in general. Do you believe that there is something bigger and better which you could become a part of? Do you believe that people are fundamentally good? Will your life have a good ending? Have you got faith in any of these things, or not? If not, explain why.

invisibleX · May 30, 2005, 10:52 PM

No. I've never bothered to figure out why. People often say they feel sorry I have no faith.. I guess I can just live without knowing what my ultimate end will be, or being part of something bigger than myself.

Face Ache · May 31, 2005, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Will your life have a good ending?

I'm probably going to die towards the end.

Xeo · May 31, 2005, 01:50 AM

I don't have faith in a higher power or some invisible force that binds us together. If there is something greater that I am a part of, it's the universe itself.

Now, my beliefs are based on rational thought. I don't have to see to believe, since not all things need to reflect light to exist, but basically, if it would go away if no one thought it, it's not real.

Nicko · May 31, 2005, 02:33 AM

Faith? No. But I am partial to destiny.

Goldfinger · May 31, 2005, 02:53 AM

Faith was usefull 500 years ago.

Zimphire · May 31, 2005, 06:05 AM

if it would go away if no one thought it, it's not real.

Explain.

BTW, what you consider "rational" others might consider irrational.

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

Faith was usefull 500 years ago.

So was procreation, food, shelter, etc. Are those outdated now too?

I never understood how one could assume something was wrong just because it isn't something that just recently came about.

As if anything 500 years ago is wrong.

AKcrab · May 31, 2005, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by Zimphire

I never understood how one could assume something was wrong just because it isn't something that just recently came about.

As if anything 500 years ago is wrong.

He didn't say it was wrong. He (sorta) said it's not useful.

jasonsRX7 · May 31, 2005, 07:13 AM

Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no substitute for a good blaster at your side.

Warung · May 31, 2005, 07:22 AM

Faith is hawtttt!!!1!

ghporter · May 31, 2005, 07:23 AM

Just have faith that your blaster won't let you down!

I have faith in some things, such as (surprise!) the basic inherent goodness in most people. Statistically, they can't ALL be bad. And being bad seems to be a lot more trouble. Being lazy is just neutral.

I have faith that the first name of about 75% of the drivers in San Antonio is Richard-but they go by their nickname a lot of the time.

I have faith that I will choose correctly when faced with an ethical question. And I have faith that the correct choice is preferable even if nobody's watching.

MacNStein · May 31, 2005, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

Faith was usefull 500 years ago.

and 2500 years ago, and 1000 years ago, and 100 years ago, and 5 minutes ago...

You do realalize, that even if there is no "God", faith is a very powerful thing. If for no other reason than it's direct relationship with hope.

RAILhead · May 31, 2005, 10:21 AM

I have faith that this thread will spiral into teh suckz0rz any minute now...

Zimphire · May 31, 2005, 10:27 AM

Too late.

turtle777 · May 31, 2005, 11:22 AM

IBL.

-t

sek929 · May 31, 2005, 11:33 AM

Although this thread is doomed to flaming I will add my 2¢.

I have faith that we are bound together in ways we can't possibly understand in this lifetime and that most Humans at least strive for good will and peaceful co-existence.

I also think major religions are B.S. that have caused more suffering than they claim to fix.

AB^2=BCxAC · 11:51 AM

+1 No faith. Good will, yes. Ignorance, plenty. Trust that piety breeds hypocrisy and xenophobia, absolutely.

MacNStein · May 31, 2005, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by AB^2=BCxAC

+1 No faith. Good will, yes. Ignorance, plenty. Trust that piety breeds hypocrisy and xenophobia, absolutely.

Is it possible to have a liberal, open mind, while making blanket statements?

- - e r i k - - · May 31, 2005, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by invisibleX

No. I've never bothered to figure out why. People often say they feel sorry I have no faith.. I guess I can just live without knowing what my ultimate end will be, or being part of something bigger than myself.

Ditto.

wdlove · May 31, 2005, 12:42 PM

I have a strong faith in my Savior the Lord Jesus Christ. He has made me new again. He loved me first so that I can love.

historylme · May 31, 2005, 12:43 PM

I subscribe to the western belief that the human character has infinite potential, which we are progressing within subsequent generation.

However, the potential is two fold. Our great potential is matched with our great flaw, our violent nature and lust for power.

In so arguing, there is progress in some fields but regress in others. Our ultimate end is thus lies in our ability to overcome or succumb to our nature.

In short, I have faith that our ultimate greatness is the ability to overcome the worst within us.

AB^2=BCxAC · May 31, 2005, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Is it possible to have a liberal, open mind, while making blanket statements?

I'm talking about me: I have no faith, and I'm ignorant.

And by extension, does that mean to be conservative is to not be hypocritical, because one can make blanket statements from a closed, narrow mind as often as one likes? Or a conservative never makes blanket satements, ever? I'm sure that's not the point you were trying to make with your rhetorical question, but that's one gist.

But I'm sure we both define "liberal" and "conservative" differently. I'm sure how I see it and you see it result in definitions with very little similarity.

MacNStein · May 31, 2005, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by AB^2=BCxAC

I'm talking about me: I have no faith, and I'm ignorant.

And by extension, does that mean to be conservative is to not be hypocritical, because one can make blanket statements from a closed, narrow mind as often as one likes? Or a conservative never makes blanket satements, ever? I'm sure that's not the point you were trying to make with your rhetorical question, but that's one gist.

But I'm sure we both define "liberal" and "conservative" differently. I'm sure how I see it and you see it result in definitions with very little similarity.

whoa, whoa, whoa, there Tex. You're running off on a tangent. Stop with the heaving of the strawmen for a sec and backup. O'kay?

You said:

"Trust that piety breeds hypocrisy and xenophobia, absolutely."

This is a dishonest statement, and I was calling you to the carpet regarding it. You do see how you're promoting your own form of xenophobia and hypocrisy by making such comments? Yes?

Zimphire · May 31, 2005, 02:21 PM

Stein, I have found most people that do do it, don't realize it.

AB^2=BCxAC · May 31, 2005, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by MacNStein

whoa, whoa, whoa, there Tex. You're running off on a tangent. Stop with the heaving of the strawmen for a sec and backup. O'kay?

You said:

"Trust that piety breeds hypocrisy and xenophobia, absolutely."

This is a dishonest statement, and I was calling you to the carpet regarding it. You do see how you're promoting your own form of xenophobia and hypocrisy by making such comments? Yes?

Okay, but admit you baited me with your syllogism that utlized a divisive construction of liberal and conservative as it's rhetorical fulcrum.

Being harsh on xenophobia and hypocrisy does mean that I'm very critical of attitudes that have been know to promote those problems (such as piety taken to extremes) - but being critical of these attitudes is not necessarily the same as seeking to diminish their voice with censorship or castegating ridicule. My understanding is that a person can criticize and tolerate an opposing view (at the same time without being a hypocrite): these are not mutally exclusive absolutes. This constitutes a dialogue. My point is that I think I can tolerate piety, and I think I can even tolerate views I disagree with, while addressing what I see as their faults. Now does that make me hypocritical here? If you say so. But, speaking of straw dogs, I wouldn't know if that makes all liberals hypocritical.

RAILhead · May 31, 2005, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Stein, I have found most people that do do it, don't realize it.

Heh. Zimpf said "do do it."

mitchell_pgh · May 31, 2005, 03:27 PM

I have faith.

MacNStein · May 31, 2005, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by AB^2=BCxAC

Okay, but admit you baited me with your syllogism that utlized a divisive construction of liberal and conservative as it's rhetorical fulcrum.

Being harsh on xenophobia and hypocrisy does mean that I'm very critical of attitudes that have been know to promote those problems (such as piety taken to extremes) - but being critical of these attitudes is not necessarily the same as seeking to diminish their voice with censorship or castegating ridicule. My understanding is that a person can criticize and tolerate an opposing view (at the same time without being a hypocrite): these are not mutally exclusive absolutes. This constitutes a dialogue. My point is that I think I can tolerate piety, and I think I can even tolerate views I disagree with, while addressing what I see as their faults. Now does that make me hypocritical here? If you say so. But, speaking of straw dogs, I wouldn't know if that makes all liberals hypocritical.

Where did I say "all liberals are hypocritical", where? You're still casting off on me to evade my point. And I'll admit no such thing, you're one of the more vocal liberals on this forum, so I would imagine you would understand what liberalism entails... part of which is an open and accepting mind towards the views and choices of others, "protection from arbitrary judgement" and what not.

Now, to basics.

pious (adj.): Having or exhibiting religious reverence; earnestly compliant in the observance of religion; devout.

I know a few truly pious people (no, I'm not one), and none are hypocritical or xenophobic. Now, there are many with false piety who exhibit both traits, however, that's why it's called "false piety".

AB^2=BCxAC · May 31, 2005, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Where did I say "all liberals are hypocritical", where? You're still casting off on me to evade my point. And I'll admit no such thing, you're one of the more vocal liberals on this forum, so I would imagine you would understand what liberalism entails... part of which is an open and accepting mind towards the views and choices of others, "protection from arbitrary judgement" and what not.

Now, to basics.

pious (adj.): Having or exhibiting religious reverence; earnestly compliant in the observance of religion; devout.

I know a few truly pious people (no, I'm not one), and none are hypocritical or xenophobic. Now, there are many with false piety who exhibit both traits, however, that's why it's called "false piety".

How can I argue with you? I never said that you said "all liberals are hypocritical" - I said that you baited me, and you did: you brought the word "liberal" into the discussion because you rhetorically wanted me to concede to being hypocritical, and by extension you could label all liberal thinking as hypocritical because I was.

And I strenously believe that your definition of pious leaves generous room to understand that the devout reverence of any religion (many teach xenophobic ideologies based on linear interpretations of writings to be understood as the "word of God" - on faith, as well as all the wonderful and peaceful things that are taught) could mean that there is a risk in being too pious, or faithfull.

And finally, because I'm really annoyed with this whole argument by now, I don't agree that "liberalism entails" ... "an open and accepting mind towards the views and choices of others, "protection from arbitrary judgement" and what not." That is human moralizing, which could apply to anyone's political ideology, including someone who is Libertarian, which last I heard is not the same as "Liberal".

Good day.

Wiskedjak · May 31, 2005, 04:24 PM

I consider myself to "have faith", but not to be religious. I have beliefs, but they are derived from exposure to the beliefs of others, not necessarily religious teachings. I believe in a higher being, but I don't believe there is enough information available to know whether that being is sentient and purposeful (God) or something more like a highly evolved process (Mother Nature). I also don't believe that any one religion has all the right answers, but rather that some have answers which others don't.

ironknee · May 31, 2005, 04:34 PM

There's a dark cloud rising from the desert floor

I packed my bags and I'm heading straight into the storm

Gonna be a twister to blow everything down

That ain't got the faith to stand its ground

ghporter · May 31, 2005, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Stein, I have found most people that do do it, don't realize it.

I agree completely. Most people don't think enough-some don't think at all. It sure seems like only a few of us think about what we think, why we think that way, and whether it's the correct way of thinking for us.

It's like when there's road construction and you see hundreds of cars lined up to turn where the road is closed. Even if there had been blanket publicity and signs along the road for MILES, these people will still line up for their turn-because it's the only way they know, and they have never even considered an alternate route. I've gone around this sort of thing when I've come across it, and though that hasn't always been the shortest or quickest route, I've ALWAYS learned something by going around. Life is like that too.

Sir Arthur Dent · May 31, 2005, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Is it possible to have a liberal, open mind, while making blanket statements?

Irony is dead, and this post is it's tombstone.

Superchicken · May 31, 2005, 06:43 PM

I once had someone suggest to me that Faith is not simply some belief but rather belief in action... I don't agree that that's all faith is... but if you look at passages like the one where James writes about Faith without works being dead I think it makes sense. Faith if it does not influence on an extremely deep and intimate level is not faith at all.
That said, I have Faith, Hope, and Love... I think I'm set for the last day

MindFad · May 31, 2005, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Sir Arthur Dent

Irony is dead, and this post is it's tombstone.

You're so gonna get it.

Sir Arthur Dent · May 31, 2005, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by MindFad

You're so gonna get it.

I know. At least I'll go out in a blaze of metaphor.

Cody Dawg · May 31, 2005, 08:26 PM

Actually, I do TRY to have faith.

But, I have some sort of perverse dread that I live with the majority of the time. I expect the worst all of the time and if something good happens then I consider myself lucky.

ironknee · May 31, 2005, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Sir Arthur Dent

Irony is dead, and this post is it's tombstone.

no...no..i'm still alive...i feel better now

ironknee · May 31, 2005, 10:57 PM

faith is the ONLY truth. without it, there would be no religion. only science.

- - e r i k - - · Jun 1, 2005, 04:49 PM

You gotta have faith

moonmonkey · Jun 1, 2005, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by Warung

Faith is hawtttt!!!1!

OMG is she taking a dump?

moonmonkey · Jun 1, 2005, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

You gotta have faith

OMG is he sniffing his armpit?

JHromadka · Jun 2, 2005, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

I'm not just talking about faith in God, but rather, faith in general. Do you believe that there is something bigger and better which you could become a part of? Do you believe that people are fundamentally good? Will your life have a good ending? Have you got faith in any of these things, or not? If not, explain why.

I have faith in God and faith in myself. I believe that I will have a happy life (which I do already). I think that people have good inside, but there are a lot of things in this world that push that goodness deep within, thus making everyone way to cynical.

bstone · Jun 2, 2005, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by Xeo

I don't have faith in a higher power or some invisible force that binds us together. If there is something greater that I am a part of, it's the universe itself.

Now, my beliefs are based on rational thought. I don't have to see to believe, since not all things need to reflect light to exist, but basically, if it would go away if no one thought it, it's not real.

I've been from one end of this galaxy to another and I'veI've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other, I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field controls my destiny.