[Cody Dawg]

Our local newspaper is running a series of articles on the amount of force that police are using down here in South Florida. A heated debate is going on with when and how a taser gun should be used.

There are many instances when I feel that taser guns were used inappropriately such as when an 8-year old little girl was tasered, another little boy, etc.

One instance is shown in the link below - a woman is tasered after being asked by a cop to get out of the car after only 34 seconds.

Here is the link - click on "THE ARREST" when you get there. Warning, it is very disturbing.

The Schnitt Show discussed this yesterday (Schnitt is a talk radio host) and thought that tasering this woman acceptable, along with his ridicule of her and his comment that "...she had 34 seconds to get out of the car - that's long enough." I called the show to tell him that I found his laughter and ridicule of the woman unacceptable. He actually made a joke in reference to the porn movie Deep Throat while discussing this issue. Every other person who also called the show thought he was wrong and that excessive force was clearly used with this woman. I love Schnitt but we agree to disagree about this issue. (He is a conservative, by the way.)

After I returned home we had a series of emails back and forth and he still thinks that the cops were acting rationally when tasering this woman.

Watch the video and voice your opinion.

[Cody Dawg]

By the way, Schnitt is normally a great show and a very talented guy.

I just think that he had sunk to a new low yesterday when he sided with the cops on this issue and said that he thinks that tasering her was acceptable.

The woman who was/is tasered in the clip is trying to talk to and listen to her husband on her cell phone while the cop is yelling at her to get out of the car. The cop yanks the door open and physically reaches in to try to grab her out of the car. He starts screaming at her to get out and then he tasers her - from start to finish it is 34 seconds. He gave her less than one minute to comply before he tasered her.

Now here is the part that is disturbing: When someone is tasered they cannot move their muscles for a few seconds afterwards because of the shock. So, after he tasers her and she is laying on the ground, he starts screaming at her to "put your hands behind your back!" She cannot move because her muscles are in spasm from the tasering. So what does he do? He tasers her again! He then starts screaming that he's going to taser her yet again (third time) and she's crying and saying she cannot put her hands behind her back and just then his partner sees that his partner is going to taser her for the third time and she is helpless so when she says she cannot put her hands behind her back he says, "Sure you can," and he tries to help her himself.

This cop that tasered her has an anger problem, plain and simple, in my opinion. It's only my opinion - and the opinion of the other people who called Schnitt's show yesterday.

But what do any of you think? Seriously?

Tasering can kill someone, plain and simple. It is deadly force, in my opinion. It leaves scars where the device connects to the skin. If the cop had missed and hit her in the throat it probably would have killed her. I also understand that criminals now taser vehicles that they want to break into because it shorts out the entire electrical system and they can then break into it. It is a severe shock.

What happens when that cop, or another one like him, pulls over and tasers someone with a pacemaker or heart implant? Or someone who has a disability doesn't react fast enough and gets tasered?

I think it's wrong and should be used much more conservatively than how they are using it. Should they taser some people? Probably. But for traffic stops? I don't think so - unless the person is trying to attack and officer or pulls a gun.

[xi_hyperon]

I would like to see them, but the proxy server here isn't allowing the movies to load. Will have to try again later when I'm out of this office.

[acadian]

I worked probation services for three years and have this to say, I think there are two issues here, the first being the amount of force that was actually used and the second relating to the point at which the decision to use that force was made and what steps were taken to diffuse the situation. The first point cannot be addressed until the second point is. I feel the officer could have made a better attempt to diffuse the tension between him and the suspect from the start. I think that, for whatever reason, they were both having a bad day and crossed paths at the wrong time. However, it is the officers job to recognize this fact and take appropriate measures to compensate for it (tone of voice, body language etc...). If he made such an attempt and the suspect still refused to calm down and accomodate his authority then, and only then, would this degree of force be justified. I have a feeling though that had the officer indeed attempted to diffuse the tension it would have never escalated to the point where this level of force would be required.

[Cody Dawg]

I have a feeling though that had the officer indeed attempted to diffuse the tension it would have never escalated to the point where this level of force would be required.

Great point! Totally and 100% in agreement with you. One of the best points yet.

I want to hear what ThinkInsane has to say about this, also.

[Zimphire]

[RAILhead]

Zimpf, you beat me to it!

[TETENAL]

Maybe that was excessive force. But I have limited sympathy with the woman. She behaved like an ass before she got tasered.

[Cody Dawg]

Did she? How? Explain. Thanks.

[brapper]

Tasering is a pretty hardcore thing to do, but I think at times it's a good alternative to physical confrontation to keep the police safe. That being said, tasering an 8 year old is absolutely ridiculous. I seem to recall there being incidents of tasering kids last year also. It's retarded when it's used against a frantic kid.
When I was in Palm Beach earlier this spring I witnessed several people get tasered at a bar, where it seemed everyone was fighting except myself and my friend. It was very surreal, as the option isn't even available to police here. It did subdue the crowd of fighting guys and girl rather quickly, so I suppose it is a successful employment.
I know if I was a cop, I'd hate to get into the middle of a bar fight without that sort of advantage.

[Cody Dawg]

That is REALLY weird because there is an article published about that...let me find it...

More articles including one about tasering at a bar.

[yakkiebah]

Ouch, that's a nice police state you're living in, i smell a boycott coming up...

I thought stuff like this only happend in third world countries. I'm "shocked"!

Just kidding ofcourse but what does the law say, can the police use tazers this easy?
She was very uncorporative and bitchy but tazering her into submission? Talk about using excessive force.

[gururafiki]

It's not OK to taser somone after they have been shot!

[brapper]

maybe this is dumbingit down too much, but perhaps the plice no longer feel adverse to excercising their itchy trigger finger. Traditionally they take a lot of BS from a lot of shitty people, but they can't very well justify shooting those people with gun or even physically contacting these people. With the introduction of the taser as a preventitive measure to ensure safety in confrontation for the police, they've been given an opportunity to exact a bit of force on people who think it's appropriate to act like assholes to them..
dunno, just wondering.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Zimpf, you beat me to it!

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Did she? How? Explain. Thanks.

I thought you watched the video? Be sure to listen to it, too. You can hear what she's saying to him.

She absolutely deserved to get tasered. She was being uncooperative and defiant. He asked her to get off the phone and get out of the car, but she continued to yap. Why didn't she hang up when he asked her to? Because she wanted to be defiant. She shouldn't have gotten on the phone in the first place, but 30 seconds is plenty of time to hang up and get out of the car. He warned her several times.

[Randman]

[jasonsRX7]

Putting myself in the cops shoes, I'd be very uneasy about someone I'm trying to arrest being on the cellphone instead of listening to me. She could be calling for her own backup for all I'd know.

He stood there very calmly at her door while she rattled off BS at him in the 2nd video, so I don't know if I'd say he had anger issues. And in the fourth video he said she tried to hit his partner, but you didn't mention that, Cody.

[pooka]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Here is the link - click on "THE ARREST" when you get there. Warning, it is very disturbing.

No, when you get there, watch all the videos. From start to finish. I'm sorry, but I've been pulled over more than 20 times in my life (some of which involved a handcuffed whoopin) and that has to be one of the most patient police officers I have EVER seen in my life. He put up with 10x more **** from that woman than I would have. I'm sorry, but when my CLIENTS start trying to tell me how to do MY job I become more combative than that.

Listening to the commentary you hear that when the officer approaches the vehicle to make the arrest it's because she's driving with a suspended license. She's going to be taken into custody at that point. It's over. She's going to jail. At that point, when you tell an officer "Don't touch me".. well, you're usually eating concrete.

Could he have handled it better? Yep. Same with her.

[birdman]

Originally Posted by pooka

I'm sorry, but when my CLIENTS start trying to tell me how to do MY job I become more combative than that.

But as a public servant who has to abide by certain laws, if a police officer is breaking them, we should be able to call them on it. Most people don't because, well, the police have the guns and can make your life a living hell until you get a lawyer to prove your innocence. In this woman's case, however, I don't think using a radar gun while driving is illegal, at least here it isn't. When she made that allegation, the cop *could* have said, "Actually, yes we are allowed", but instead he gets pissy and says "Don't tell me how to do my job".

Also funny that they're so nice and polite after they've got her on the ground in handcuffs... e.g. "it's ok, it's over now", "slide on over, there ya go". If they'd been half that kind-toned to begin with, maybe it wouldn't have escalated. Judging by this woman's actions though, I'm guessing it still would have... that doesn't mean it's not an option though.

-birdman

[Randman]

Anyone notice that all of Cody's threads are becoming Fark headlines?

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Here is the link - click on "THE ARREST" when you get there. Warning, it is very rewarding to watch someone who acts like an ass get what they deserve.

Ok, that's fixed.

[MindFad]

I heard him sarcastically say "go ahead and tell me my job," not "don't tell me how to do my job." She didn't cooperate at all. He told her five times to get out of the car. That is what happens. And then she tried to get away from the cop on the other side trying to take her phone away? She had it coming. Big deal.

[gururafiki]

The use of a taser gun is better than a lethal gun as it may save a few lives or reduce lifelong lasting injuries. But I am concerned with how cops may have more of a trigger finger. There is less of a threat of killing someone when using a taser, so cops may feel more inclined to taser someone first and ask questions later. Much training is needed before tasers are used everywhere in the police force.

[birdman]

I agree that she was uncooperative and obviously if she was driving with a suspended license they had to arrest her. But this nonsense of "telling me my job" -- if he *had* been doing something illegal, she would have every right to call him on it. It just happens that in this case, he was not. However I still think the proper response would have been, "Actually yes we ARE allowed to use radar guns while driving." Then if he wants to tack on a snarky "go ahead and tell me my job" at the end, fine I guess.

Cops are purposely trained to have very little patience, specifically because of people like this woman. Unfortunately, that means the rest of us also get to endure their sarcasm. It's a small price to pay.

-birdman

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by birdman

Unfortunately, that means the rest of us also get to endure their sarcasm. It's a small price to pay.

No we don't, it's a simple matter of being cooperative. Whenever I get pulled, I roll down my window, cut my over head light on (if it's dark out), and place my hands visibly on the steering wheel until the cop asks for my license. I'm giving him visual indicators that I'm willing to cooperate and make his job as easier before he ever says one word to me. I'll directly answer their questions and don't try to weasel my way out of anything. In every instance I've been pulled over (about 6 or 7) I was guilty of what they accused me of, and only twice have I ever gotten a ticket.

Don't be an ass and chances are they won't treat you like one.

[birdman]

So I guess you've never been asked "Where's the fire, buddy?" I cooperate too, but it's a lot easier to stay calm when you aren't being thrown sarcasm. My heart is already pounding from being pulled over in the first place; I don't need the comedy, thanks. Admittedly this doesn't always happen, and as I said before, people would be wise to just take it in stride because they've got the law (and guns) on their side. There's no law against cops being sarcastic.

Sorta reminds me of the time I saw Judge Judy claim she "didn't care if he recorded your phone conversation illegally" because it proved the defendant's guilt -- and then added that her attempt to dismiss the evidence was proof of her guilt as well. Ehh??

-birdman

[Abit667]

My god, she deserved every volt she got from that thing. It's a more common attitude too the way she reacted, I see it more and more every day. Refusing to talk to the police because she's on the phone and then she's not allowed to be touched. I'm sure she raised hell about that event too about how the mean police targeted her and it's not her fault at all. Makes me sick.

[Chuckit]

Never on a first date, that's my rule.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Randman

Anyone notice that all of Cody's threads are becoming Fark headlines?

Heh, yeah -- I noticed that a little while ago.

CODY IS TEH FARKETTE QWEEN!!11!!

[Captain Obvious]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Tasering: When Is It Acceptable?

Any time you open your mouth

[Zimphire]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/co...r_video3a.html

[Sir Arthur Dent]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

Any time you open your mouth

Zing

[budster101]

When did Captain Obvious become Caption Jerkoff?

[sideus]

[PacHead]

I was smiling the whole way through that video. Obviously I knew what was going to happen, but that loudmouthed lady was so annoying, that I was relieved when they finally tasered the woman and we could hear her dumb remarks morph into pathetic whining and screaming.

Is she dumb ? Is she deaf ? Does she not comprehend simple english ? From the very first words uttered out of her obnoxious mouth, everybody knows she was looking for trouble. If a cop tells you to step out of the car now !, or I'm going to taser you !, something he repeated many, many times, you'd better get your damn fat ass out of the car.

The cop was actually being polite the whole time, and handled the situation in a professional manner. Perhaps the silly woman will shut her mouth, use her brain, and open her ears next time she's in a similiar situation.

[brapper]

Granted, she was being an idiot, and the officer did his job correctly.

However, this:

Originally Posted by PacHead

I was smiling the whole way through that video. Obviously I knew what was going to happen, but that loudmouthed lady was so annoying, that I was relieved when they finally tasered the woman and we could hear her dumb remarks morph into pathetic whining and screaming.

is pretty sick. Normal people don't think this way. Sort yourself out.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by brapper

is pretty sick. Normal people don't think this way. Sort yourself out.

Who said I'm normal ? Normal = average = boring

Think Different™

[brapper]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Who said I'm normal ? Normal = average = boring

Think Different™

I'm not sure you're what they had in mind

[JoshuaZ]

Some people are just dumb. Maybe it was excess force, but honestly cops have to deal with a ton of crap and when you have a cop telling you to do something you should do it. Especially when they pull you over.

I agree with the cop on this one.

[Cody Dawg]

Okay, I went back and watched ALL of the videos three times each.

Is the woman a loose cannon? Yes.

However, listen to the video again AFTER he has tasered her. Hear his boss on the dispatch? He basically is very annoyed/upset with the officer for tasering her and says something like, "Did you have to taser her?" The cop who tasered her starts to defend himself then says, "You can see it on the video." His boss/dispatch questioned why he'd tasered her.

The fact is that she deserved to go to jail because she broke the law. But did he have to tase her? Maybe. After a few minutes...not 34 seconds. She wasn't pulling a gun on him or threatening him. She was ignoring him because she was telling her husband she was being arrested and for that she was tasered.

You folks don't live down here. We do. I know that this is one of the most racist places to live in the United States. That cop wouldn't have tasered a white woman, that's for sure. He tasered a poor black woman and guess what, it happens all the time.

I know that she was/is a loudmouth and she was combative from the beginning, but that doesn't mean that she should have been tasered because she's ignorant.

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Hear his boss on the dispatch? He basically is very annoyed/upset with the officer for tasering her and says something like, "Did you have to taser her?"

Probably because everyone they taser threatens to sue them and knew they were in for a lot of hassle.

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

She wasn't pulling a gun on him or threatening him. She was ignoring him because she was telling her husband she was being arrested and for that she was tasered.

I don't see where the cop could have know it was her husband on the phone. Right before he lit her up, she told the person on the phone, "the next street off of Seacrest." She was giving someone directions to where she was! How do you know she wasn't calling someone to come blow the cops brains out?

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

He tasered a poor black woman and guess what, it happens all the time.

Ah, so cops can taser whoever they want, as long as it's a white male. Otherwise, they're racist.

[Randman]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I know that this is one of the most racist places to live in the United States.

And how do you know that?

[JoshuaZ]

Every place in the US has racist people. Doesn't mean that place was, nor the cop, nor the woman in the car was/is.

[macaddict0001]

I didn't think that the cop was doing anything wrong at all, he gave her adequate warning and like he said a tasering isn't that bad. She was going 16 mph over the speed limit, had a suspended license, a broken taillight, no seat belt and a cracked windshield. She was defiant and rude, the officer spent minutes with her before tasering her.

[ThinkInsane]

What people need to understand is that a taser is a lower level of force. Would you prefer these people get a snout full of OC and beaten with a baton?

[Cody Dawg]

I don't know what "OC" is. Is that pepper spray by any chance? I'd rather have pepper spray.

They profiled this story on the local news and showed pictures of the woman's arm at the local ER. Her arm was red and black from blood running down it - it looked really bad. Turns out that she has a blood clotting disorder and she bleeds easily. Her arm looked like it had been flayed open because of where the taser prong had stabbed her.

Yeah, they're getting sued and honestly, I think they deserve it. His attitude was like, "So what, she got tasered." It's amazing to me that for so long the cops managed just fine without taser guns but down here in South Florida the cops think it's okay to taser people left and right because they want their jobs to be easy. Wait until they taser someone in the face. Or the eye. Or the neck. And the person dies. It's going to happen - just wait and see.

About 5 minutes south is a place called Delray Beach. Two months ago a cop there killed a teenager.

Teen dead after cop shoots him.

Authorities on Monday released the name of the rookie Delray Beach police officer who allegedly shot and killed a 16-year-old as he drove a car around the campus of the Delray Full Service Center during a dance Saturday night.

Darren Cogoni, 23, who has been on solo patrol for less than a month, has been placed on administrative leave pending the investigation of the shooting. He was hired in March 2004, but was in training until Feb. 3, when he joined the force.

Police reportedly asked Jerrod Miller for his license and to get out of the car before he drove off. An officer shot him as he drove across a school campus.

Jerrod Miller had dropped some friends off at the dance but returned a while later. An officer stopped him at a gate the the school's parking lot and asked for his drivers license, but Miller drove off. Shortly later, as many as three shots were fired, according to witnesses. The rear window of the Cadillac Miller drove was shattered and the car came to rest in a nearby school parking lot after travelling down a walkway used by students between classes.

Miller attended Olympic Heights High School in Boca Raton where he was described as an average student who didn't stick out in any way, either disciplinary or otherwise.

He was black also. You either have a lot of money here and you're usually white or you don't and you're usually black. The median price for an average home here in Palm Beach county is well over $300,000. That's an AVERAGE home in an AVERAGE neighborhood. A lot of blacks don't have a chance to make it because they earn only minimum wage or thereabouts. They don't have resources and they stay poor and uneducated and suffer through the system of prejudice that is rampant around here.

Lastly, how do I know it's racist here? Because I live here and I know it's a problem. Two of my neighbors are black and we discuss it frequently - they were here a couple of weeks ago for a barbecue. There are a lot of places down here that are still like Reconstruction.

[Rev-O]

I just keep thinking that if I got to carry a taser on the job a lot of people would be shocked by what happened.

[Cody Dawg]

That's very funny.

[James L]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Now here is the part that is disturbing: When someone is tasered they cannot move their muscles for a few seconds afterwards because of the shock. So, after he tasers her and she is laying on the ground, he starts screaming at her to "put your hands behind your back!" She cannot move because her muscles are in spasm from the tasering. So what does he do? He tasers her again! He then starts screaming that he's going to taser her yet again (third time) and she's crying and saying she cannot put her hands behind her back and just then his partner sees that his partner is going to taser her for the third time and she is helpless so when she says she cannot put her hands behind her back he says, "Sure you can," and he tries to help her himself.

Actually, this isn't always true. I have personally witnessed several people tasered while at work, and I actually saw one gentlemen who was tasered twice and didn't go down. He sure dropped fast when the 9mm's cam out though (I think... I was crouched behind a car at the time!). I have seen several who have been tasered but could conciously move their arms immediately after they were hit.

Now, there is some things I don't see. Where were her hands? One was on a cell phone, where was the other? Was it out of sight? Was the officer asking her to obey and hang up the phone because he couldn't get a bead on what she was doing? Was she still sitting holding the wheel of a running vehicle, ready to bolt and run over an officer? Was she holding a gun under the dash?

Use of force training is pretty simple, and no matter where you are it is usually based on an escalating level of force philosophy... moving from verbal, to physical methods of subduing a potential threat. This woman did not immediately obey the officer, we can't tell if a hand was hidden or not, etc.

Do I think the officer over reacter a bit? Well, it depends on your philosophy. The woman was a bitch, and whether you think it is just or not, when an armed officer tells you to step out of a vehicle...you do it. File a complaint later if you feel it was unjust, but at this point if you refuse, he must now view you as a threat.


EDIT: Just watched all the videos. This cop was very patient. He spoke with her politely from 07:51:42 to 07:53:55... over 2 minutes. Then, he went back and ran her plates, checked her insurance, wrote the ticket, whatever. Maybe there was an issue such as invalid insurance that made him decide to arrest her... not really relevant.

THEN, he goes back and asks her to get out of the car and she says something like "Don't Touch Me!". Did she hit him to try to dislodge his grip? Did she violently jerk her arm back, showing an escalation in her level of threat?

He was basically 4 minutes into the call and conversation with her when she was tasered. She was rude, billigerent, she escalated her behaviour, we can't tell what she did or where her hands were, and she ignored several repeated warnings to settle down and step out of the vehicle... in my opinion she deserved what she got.