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TETENAL · Jun 9, 2005, 12:20 PM

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index...p;NewsID=11802

Quark's CEO suddenly quits and the company is now searching for a new CEO. No reason known yet.

BoomStick · Jun 9, 2005, 12:22 PM

He knew Quark sucks and the possibility of a X.5 version is highly improbable.

IndesignCS put the last nail in the coffin for Quark.

yukon · Jun 9, 2005, 12:37 PM

"Oh bloody hell, Apple did it to us AGAIN! Well that's it, no more letters with icing sugar in them and flaming bags of poo for me, I'm outta here."

Just joking, I don't deal with Quark software, I just know that old controversy with carbon porting.

Randman · Jun 9, 2005, 12:52 PM

Wasn't the next version of Quark not expected out until 2007+?

Another nail in the coffin since Aulakh really seemed to be trying to turn that company's fortunes around.

budster101 · Jun 9, 2005, 12:54 PM

QUARK is a big steaming pile of koran-poo. : (Kidding) No really, it sucks.

Making a thread political, the hard way.

Luca Rescigno · Jun 9, 2005, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Randman

Wasn't the next version of Quark not expected out until 2007+?

Another nail in the coffin since Aulakh really seemed to be trying to turn that company's fortunes around.

Probably so, and I bet it wouldn't support Intel Macs either!

TETENAL · Jun 9, 2005, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno

Probably so, and I bet it wouldn't support Intel Macs either!

When it's released in 2007 it better has to be. Does anyone know whether XPress is still CFM?

mitchell_pgh · Jun 9, 2005, 01:16 PM

Flame Quark all you want... 80%+ of the design industry still uses it...

BoomStick · Jun 9, 2005, 01:20 PM

We switched over to Indesign and will no longer accept crappy quark files.

budster101 · Jun 9, 2005, 01:21 PM

That's their problem. What are they using? 6.0? I doubt it. 4.0 probably for most of them, and they are looking to switch out. Quark suxxxors as a company

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Jun 9, 2005, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

Flame Quark all you want... 80%+ of the design industry still uses it...

What's your point?

Goldfinger · Jun 9, 2005, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

What's your point?

That they better make a MacX86 version.

budster101 · Jun 9, 2005, 01:24 PM

Who relies on Quark files? I don't know 1 printer that will accept only Quark...
InDesign is the norm for me, and even at that they take PDFs. The design community still uses Quark?
Only the one's who are stuck with 4.0, and a handful that idiotically upgraded to 6.0... and are having so much fun dealing with that pile of crap. Shear stupidity.

mitchell_pgh · Jun 9, 2005, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

What's your point?

What's the point of all of the "Quark sucks" posts. My point is the industry still must think Quark is good enough to do the job. Most printers I talk to take either Quark or InDesign... but work much more with Quark.

Quark is the foundation of the design industry. I coordinate outside designers and using Quark is one of my criteria. While the application IS clunky and old, it works.

Randman · Jun 9, 2005, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

Flame Quark all you want... 80%+ of the design industry still uses it...

Are you sure? In newspapers, fewer and fewer companies are using Quark these days. And if they are, many are still using older versions.

Luca Rescigno · Jun 9, 2005, 01:26 PM

I remember that Quark XPress 5 did not support OS X, and it was released in January of 2002 (ten months after OS X's release). OS X support did not come until version 6, in June 2003.

Maybe Quark XPress 7 will come out in late 2006 or early 2007, for PPC only, and then two years after Apple has stopped selling PPC Macs they'll finally make an x86 compatible version. Or they'll just go out of business, that's always a good option (at least when the company in question is Quark).

mitchell_pgh · Jun 9, 2005, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by budster101

Who relies on Quark files? I don't know 1 printer that will accept only Quark...
InDesign is the norm for me, and even at that they take PDFs. The design community still uses Quark?
Only the one's who are stuck with 4.0, and a handful that idiotically upgraded to 6.0... and are having so much fun dealing with that pile of crap. Shear stupidity.

Your kidding right? I deal with printers EVERY day (10-12 of them) in the high end print industry. Sure they will take InDesign or PDF, but many of them prefer Quark.

Yes, InDesign is making inroads, but Quark still dwarfs InDesign in install base.

thunderous_funker · Jun 9, 2005, 01:29 PM

Or they'll hire a CEO that will turn them into a company that doesn't have a software slum-lord mentality.

"What to you mean you've got a leak? We fixed the plumbing years ago!"

mitchell_pgh · Jun 9, 2005, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Randman

Are you sure? In newspapers, fewer and fewer companies are using Quark these days. And if they are, many are still using older versions.

Yes, I'm sure... I'm not saying InDesign isn't superior technolgoy wise... and an amazing application, but Quark is the rock.

turtle777 · Jun 9, 2005, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

That they better make a MacX86 version.

Already scheduled for 2015, one year after Apple switches to AMD...

-t

Luca Rescigno · Jun 9, 2005, 01:34 PM

Eh, a lot of those printing companies are still using ancient hardware that sooner belongs in a museum than in a print shop. My mom works with these companies fairly often and some of her clients are unable to receive attachments in emails because they're still using Windows 95 or something, and their email client can't handle attachments. At least it's been a while since she received a floppy disk in the mail.

Randman · Jun 9, 2005, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

Yes, I'm sure... I'm not saying InDesign isn't superior technolgoy wise... and an amazing application, but Quark is the rock.

What's your source? Just thinking of a dozen papers around the world right now, I can only think of two that I know use Quark. One uses a pc version and one still uses it on OS 9.

I know other parts of the printing world still uses Quark but the 80% number seems quite high these days.

budster101 · Jun 9, 2005, 01:37 PM

Quark is the rock? Yeah, if you are in between a ROCK and a Hard Case that is an antiquated Design Manager and all he knows is Quark. I've worked freelance for several years, and most design houses I work in are glued to quark 4.0 and are scared to upgrade to 6.0. One place they had a machine runnning it and it constantly froze, and had font issues. They had all their other machines running 3.5 and 4.0 and InDesign. I did their conversion work from Quark TO InDesign and they were thrilled.

I hate Quark, and the company.

BoomStick · Jun 9, 2005, 01:40 PM

All it takes is one bad tiff to bring Quark down.

I STILL have idiots who LZW compress tiffs because they think you have to.

The floppy disk died in 1998, compression is no longer an issue.

budster101 · Jun 9, 2005, 01:44 PM

Why is that even an option? Shows you where they are. The FLOPPY DIED years ago. Thank you Apple.
I like to thank Apple now and then... don't mind me.

waxcrash · Jun 9, 2005, 01:48 PM

Seems like whenever there is a thread on Quark, the InDesign fanboys come out. InDesign is a really good program, but no matter how nice InDesign is, QuarkXPress is still the standard in pre-press design. That's why I've used QuarkXPress for the past 12 years.

Don Pickett · Jun 9, 2005, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by budster101

Who relies on Quark files? I don't know 1 printer that will accept only Quark...
InDesign is the norm for me, and even at that they take PDFs. The design community still uses Quark?
Only the one's who are stuck with 4.0, and a handful that idiotically upgraded to 6.0... and are having so much fun dealing with that pile of crap. Shear stupidity.

Nah. Quark still has most of the industry. I used both Quark and ID as the job requires, and I don't find either one to superior. They both have their advantages and disadvantages.

I think Adobe thought there so much anti-Quark feeling in the industry that people would switch over to an inferior product out of spite. CS was he first version of ID which competed feature for feature with Quark. Now, IMO, the two programs are pretty much at parity. Funnily enough I now find that Quark s faster on the same hardware, especially if your document is long.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Jun 9, 2005, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

What's the point of all of the "Quark sucks" posts. My point is the industry still must think Quark is good enough to do the job. Most printers I talk to take either Quark or InDesign... but work much more with Quark.

Quark is the foundation of the design industry. I coordinate outside designers and using Quark is one of my criteria. While the application IS clunky and old, it works.

There are more GM cars then BMW's in the world, doesn't make em better.

Quark became a monopoly because there were no other real alternatives. Print companies make HUGE investments in hardware and software with Quark Xpress. Every production company I know HATES it and wants to move to indesign but can't afford the large switchover. Heck, every printhouse I know still use Quark 4 as it is the last stable one.

Now that indesign has been around for a while companies are starting to move it it. We tried to switch at the magazine I work at but our printers weren't ready for the change. Now they are and we are ditching quark in a month.

Randman · Jun 9, 2005, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Quark became a monopoly because there were no other real alternatives. Print companies make HUGE investments in hardware and software with Quark Xpress. Every production company I know HATES it and wants to move to indesign but can't afford the large switchover. Heck, every printhouse I know still use Quark 4 as it is the last stable one.

True.

Luca Rescigno · Jun 9, 2005, 01:56 PM

Yeah, Quark is currently the industry standard, but I can't imagine they're making a ton of money if they can't convince print shops to even upgrade to a newer version. Eventually (and it'll take a long time), they'll have to upgrade, and many will upgrade to InDesign. The process has already begun, it'll just take forever because of the conditions of the industry.

BoomStick · Jun 9, 2005, 01:57 PM

Adobe products now integrate seemlessly unlike Quark.

If there is an issue with ID, just export as a PDF, or if even further refinement is needed open in Illustrator, convert fonts to paths and save as an eps.

Never has life been so simple.

Good riddence Quark, you are antiquated technology.

budster101 · Jun 9, 2005, 02:00 PM

Not to mention easily handling EXCEL FILES. Hey Quirky can't do that!

InDesign rules.

chris v · Jun 9, 2005, 02:03 PM

Quark 6.5 is not THAT BAD. Jeez. you'd think the software engineers at Quark had driven to y'all's house, parked on the lawn, kicked your cats and stolen your mail out of the mailboxes.

I use Quark 6.5 daily, because, despite its so-called Photoshop "integration," InDesign can't do much of anything with spot channels in Tiffs or PSD's. Quark is bare-bones, but if you do a little work, you can always find an Xtension to do what you want (Replace in Place and PSD Import were recent finds that made me happy) and it's been utterly rock-solid for me since the .5 update. InDesign, however has totally corrupted and had to be re-installed, and in 10.4, crashes every time I try to re-size a column in an open/save dialog. It is by no means perfect, either.

Quark's still not my favorite program, and if I were designing something from scratch, I'd use InDesign because of its features, but when I just need to get a job printed, it's still Quark. I wish the new CEO, whoever he is, the best of luck.

budster101 · Jun 9, 2005, 02:06 PM

It sux. Admit it. You can easily convert files from Quark to InDesign. I've done it for people.

EZ and fun too!

BoomStick · Jun 9, 2005, 02:07 PM

I had a choice to make in my pre-press shop when I upgraded everything and there was only room for one software upgrade.

Adobe Design Suite Professional offered more for the cost than the Quark upgrade.

Sorry Quark, you were too expensive for what you were, nothing more than a few bug fixes that should have been free.

mitchell_pgh · Jun 9, 2005, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

There are more GM cars then BMW's in the world, doesn't make em better.

I guess it's good I didn't say Quark was better ???

[quork]Quark became a monopoly because there were no other real alternatives. Print companies make HUGE investments in hardware and software with Quark Xpress. Every production company I know HATES it and wants to move to indesign but can't afford the large switchover. Heck, every printhouse I know still use Quark 4 as it is the last stable one.[/quark]

Pagemaker... but it was even worse.

Now that indesign has been around for a while companies are starting to move it it. We tried to switch at the magazine I work at but our printers weren't ready for the change. Now they are and we are ditching quark in a month.

I still use quark... I've used InDesign and it's great, but I'm able to do what I need to pay the bills. I've found having Quark as my primary design application makes me very marketable. I'm sure the same is true for InDesign.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Jun 9, 2005, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by chris v

Quark 6.5 is not THAT BAD. Jeez. you'd think the software engineers at Quark had driven to y'all's house, parked on the lawn, kicked your cats and stolen your mail out of the mailboxes.

It is pathetic actually. It doesn't support Alpha channels, drop shadows etc. The PDF output sucks, it is crashy and the most shocking thing is that it doesn't save to older versions. Pathetic.

Randman · Jun 9, 2005, 02:12 PM

Despite what people think of Quark, the CEO shuffle there isn't going to help the company or people who still use Quark or might consider it.

chris v · Jun 9, 2005, 02:13 PM

Well, as a printer, I can't afford to just tell clients to take a hike because they don't use InDesign. that'd be pretty f*cking stupid, actually. That, and the fact that the service bureau I use for my high-end film output has inDesign, but prefers Quark, too. It's just not dead, yet.

So, I spent the $99.00 and updated quark after 6.5 came out. Hasn't been a waste of money at all. I just don't understand the vitriolic hatred. Sure, Quark has been slow to respond to the industry, and they sat on their laurels for too long, but 6.5 is just not that bad.*

*the phrase "that bad" is not intended to be construed as a ringing, unqualified endorsement of this software product, and is its writer is not responsible for any mis-interpretation on the part of the end reader.

Don Pickett · Jun 9, 2005, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

It is pathetic actually. It doesn't support Alpha channels, drop shadows etc. The PDF output sucks, it is crashy and the most shocking thing is that it doesn't save to older versions. Pathetic.

Something's wrong with your install then, as Quark is solid for me.

Quark still has features ID lacks, like custom kerning tables and, more importantly, XPress tags. If you're doing seriously long, complicated documents, like textbooks, XPress tags is a livesaver. You can import 350 pages of text and have it automatically style and create stylesheets. Brilliant.

BoomStick · Jun 9, 2005, 02:24 PM

I have yet to see a "designer" properly prepare a quark file for press.
It will be chocked full of RGB's and compressed tiffs all needing to be spot colors.

Ever.

You have to buy extensions to get even the basic features of PageMaker even!

At least PageMaker will build printer's spreads without third party software.

waxcrash · Jun 9, 2005, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by BoomStick

I have yet to see a "designer" properly prepare a quark file for press.
It will be chocked full of RGB's and compressed tiffs all needing to be spot colors.

I highly doubt that.

Zimphire · Jun 9, 2005, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

Flame Quark all you want... 80%+ of the design industry still uses it...

That will change soon.

Zimphire · Jun 9, 2005, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by waxcrash

Seems like whenever there is a thread on Quark, the InDesign fanboys come out. InDesign is a really good program, but no matter how nice InDesign is, QuarkXPress is still the standard in pre-press design. That's why I've used QuarkXPress for the past 12 years.

Learn. Indesign. Now.

budster101 · Jun 9, 2005, 02:55 PM

I've done it... (Quark to InDesign)

Don Pickett · Jun 9, 2005, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Zimphire

That will change soon.

Adobe has been saying that since ID came out. If it happens, it will be gradual.

Zimphire · Jun 9, 2005, 03:13 PM

What do you think is happening now?

Quark had more of the market not too many years ago.

it is indeed gradually happening.

If you do work in Quark now, I would indeed learn Indesign.

it's not that difficult of a change.

mitchell_pgh · Jun 9, 2005, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by BoomStick

I have yet to see a "designer" properly prepare a quark file for press.
It will be chocked full of RGB's and compressed tiffs all needing to be spot colors.

Ever.

You have to buy extensions to get even the basic features of PageMaker even!

At least PageMaker will build printer's spreads without third party software.

You must work with some shady designers.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Jun 9, 2005, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Don Pickett

Adobe has been saying that since ID came out. If it happens, it will be gradual.

And it has been. Some of the largest magazines have already made the switch over a year ago and the look of the magazine has improved greatly. The company that owns that oprah mag moved over and that was considered a huge blow to quark as they own so many magazines.

mitchell_pgh · Jun 9, 2005, 03:31 PM

I'll learn InDesign when my clients start requesting InDesign or my printers won't accept Quark.

I've played around with it, but it's just too new. I also don't see how printers are going to be able to keep up with Adobe's CONSTANT version updates!

Perhaps I'll buy a InDesign® CS2 book when it becomes available. One thing about Quark is the application feels like a port from OS 6. The developers need a kick with the Mac GUI standards book.

QUARK: STOP TRYING TO MAKE QUARK A WEB DESIGN PROGRAM!!! IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.