[mAxximo]

Why am I not surprised.

Link.

[Randman]

Story came out the same day as the Intel announcement that laptop sales surpassed desktop sales (on all platforms) for the first time.

And with the Mac mini announced and upgrades to the iMac line, who would blame people for opting for "consumer" rather than "pro" computers. And that's not even addressing the upswing in students who use computers these days, most of whom opt for a "consumer" model such as an iBook.

That's just plain economics, not grist for any conspiracy theory launched by ill-informed gossipmongers.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Randman

Story came out the same day as the Intel announcement that laptop sales surpassed desktop sales (on all platforms) for the first time.

And with the Mac mini announced and upgrades to the iMac line, who would blame people for opting for "consumer" rather than "pro" computers. And that's not even addressing the upswing in students who use computers these days, most of whom opt for a "consumer" model such as an iBook.

That's just plain economics, not grist for any conspiracy theory launched by ill-informed gossipmongers.

I also feel the low end is starting to become feature complete. That hasn't always been true for the low end.

[chris v]

This is utterly bound to happen as marketshare increases.

They could go from 50% to 100% of the "pro" market, and still only grow overall global marketshare by half a percent. People that you'd class as "pros" (workers who primarily make their living using specialized computer programs in whatever industry-- scientific, graphic, video, architecture, whatever) are an extremely small subset of the population in general.

Apple is not necessarily abandoning "pros" by trying to expand their focus to include the other 98% of the world's population. If they're successful, it'll be good for the "pros" in the long run, as Apple will have long-term viability, and the software pros will have more folks to sell their work to. It's a win-win, not an either/or.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

It is because everyone is waiting for the 3Ghz Towers and G5 Powerbooks.

[Randman]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

It is because everyone is waiting for the 3Ghz Towers and G5 Powerbooks.

While that may have something to do with it, I think the fact that the line between consumer and pro Macs have blurred is also a likely factor. Is an iMac a pro or consumer model? What about the PowerBook? Lots of pros use consumer Macs (or have a second computer) while lots of surfers and emailers own PowerMacs.

[Millennium]

The Mac Mini is a strange beast. I've talked to people in Apple about this, actually. Although it's being marketed as a consumer machine, the requests for Apple to make such a device actually came from businesses. They were looking for a small, cheap workstation that they could use their existing peripherals with.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Millennium

The Mac Mini is a strange beast. I've talked to people in Apple about this, actually. Although it's being marketed as a consumer machine, the requests for Apple to make such a device actually came from businesses. They were looking for a small, cheap workstation that they could use their existing peripherals with.

2 Years ago we dropped $5000 for a dual 1.25 G4 and 20" LCD monitor here at work.

2 weeks ago I told them we needed anther computer and that an iMac 20" would be more than fine for the job and cost less then half.

So ya, the low end machines are really cutting into the high end.

[mAxximo]

Originally Posted by chris v

Apple is not necessarily abandoning "pros" by trying to expand their focus to include the other 98% of the world's population. If they're successful, it'll be good for the "pros" in the long run, as Apple will have long-term viability, and the software pros will have more folks to sell their work to. It's a win-win, not an either/or.

I think it's the other way around: if they're successful with pros then that would obviously be good for consumers. Make an operating system that pros can rely on with their eyes closed and consumers will benefit from the superior performance and reliability that stems from it. That would be a win-win in my book. Target pros instead of digikids and everybody wins. Target casual users and, well, you've seen the numbers of PowerMacs going down year after year.

[chris v]

Originally Posted by mAxximo

I think it's the other way around: if they're successful with pros then that would obviously be good for consumers. Make an operating system that pros can rely on with their eyes closed and consumers will benefit from the superior performance and reliability that stems from it. That would be a win-win in my book. Target pros instead of digikids and everybody wins. Target casual users and, well, you've seen the numbers of PowerMacs going down year after year.

What.

And all the grandmas and "digikids" can email and web-surf on dual 2.7 Powermacs that cost 3 grand? What their hardware sales prove out (40% growth overall, mind you) is that the consumers HAVE focused on Macs. And as was pointed out, one of the reasons Powermac sales have declined is that so-called consumer hardware is getting good enough for some pros. I have a freind in Toronto who runs his publishing company off of an iMac G5.

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by Millennium

The Mac Mini is a strange beast. I've talked to people in Apple about this, actually. Although it's being marketed as a consumer machine, the requests for Apple to make such a device actually came from businesses. They were looking for a small, cheap workstation that they could use their existing peripherals with.

I've got a friend who's a filmmaker who is about to get one. She doesn't need a full-on Avid/FCP workstation in her apartment. She just needs something cheap and simple she can use with iMovie to put together rough cuts with. Saves a lot of time in the editing bay.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by mAxximo

I think it's the other way around: if they're successful with pros then that would obviously be good for consumers.

'Trickle-down technology,' huh? Go on; tell me with a straight face that you're not the geek aristocracy you claim to despise.

Make an operating system that pros can rely on with their eyes closed and consumers will benefit from the superior performance and reliability that stems from it.

They've been doing that since the OS9 days, and that tradition has continued in OSX.

[chris v]

Originally Posted by mAxximo

Make an operating system that pros can rely on with their eyes closed and consumers will benefit from the superior performance and reliability that stems from it. That would be a win-win in my book.

I was going to add that this is in fact exactly what they've done! OS X is superior to Windows in every way, 99.3765% of the "pro" Mac community finds it vastly superior to OS 9, (stability, protected memory, core audio, UNIX for scientists blah, blah) and now that they HAVE attracted the attention of the consumer, naturally, they have to have something to sell to these people. Thus, the iMac G5 and the iBook.

[eddiecatflap]

doesn't say much for apple's attempts at pro macs , does it ?

the G5 tower seems so over priced for what it is , compared to an imac , plus it's not as if you're getting a half decent videocard in them ( the Pmacs )

dropping £2k on a dual 2.7 and still having to upgrade the videocard is ridiculous

[ghporter]

It has always seemed to me that "pro" machines of any platform have been modeled on the old "server-tower" form factor. They're bigger and bulkier than "consumer" computers, and they always seem to have far more capacity than almost all business users ever need. It has built the concept that "professional" computers are either best as servers or are "more machine than we need." On the other hand, as mitchell_pgh pointed out, the smaller form factor "consumer" computers have been growing in features and capacity to the point that the business user doesn't see a performance or capability hit in using them. It's more the way users perceive the form factors than how they're marketed.

[NeilCharter]

Pro Macs are still important if you need expandability, add on PCI cards and superior processing power.

Apple's all in ones were terrible until the iMac came out. Over the past five years the iMacs have improved some much in performance, display size and quality and HD size. USB and firewire also provide excellant ways to expand your system.

If I were to replace my aging G4 Sawtooth with another desktop, the iMac 20 inch would probably be my choice.

On the otherhand portables have also increased in performance. My PB (well my wife's) is excellant and the flexibilty of wireless networking is a boon. So in a way, replacing my desktop with another PB or ibook also makes sense. For most home use the portable has enough power, plus computing isn't tied to a desk.

So overall, I agree that the trend is that as long as one does not need the fastest processing power or expandibility, consumer Macs are the way to go. They are more applicable and convenient for the home and office.

[OreoCookie]

I think this discussion should be continued in the Lounge.

Anyway, personally, I think this is good news. This means the market share increases and ensures Apple's survival. My parents didn't buy a Mac two years ago, because they thought it was too expensive.

I'm also disturbed by the (artificial) distinction between pro Macs and consumer Macs. When thinking of Mac professionals, the usual association are designers, layout people, the likes. But one important field is forgotten: education. In Nagoya, literally the whole Math department was running on Macs, including the library. My professor here in Germany is using Macs for years. Those don't need what designers need, the `consumer' Macs offer more than enough horsepower (as they still are professionals in their respective fields).

[Eriamjh]

The mini is hot, the powermacs are not.