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Mithras · Jun 23, 2005, 10:36 AM

I Pledge Allegiance...
This woman is called into school by her son's principal, who indicates that her son is in big trouble.

"So, anyway. What did he do?" I picked at the hem of my sweatshirt, looked just to the right of her face. I couldn't meet her eyes. I felt nervous. I felt underdressed. I wondered where 8 was.

So she told me what he did. And as she told me, I started to laugh. I didn't laugh a little, either, but I belly-laughed and grabbed my stomach. My son stood with his class this morning, put small right hand over heart, faced the American flag, and recited his own personal pledge of allegiance:

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United Federation of Planets, and to the galaxy for which it stands, one universe, under everybody, with liberty and justice for all species.

"Mrs. Jaworski. This isn't humorous. The Pledge is an extremely important and patriotic moment each morning in the classroom. I am ashamed of your son's behavior, and I hope you are, too."

I think the principal should be wrapped in an American flag and burned, or something. What a cool kid! I don't think that's an official Star Trek pledge or anything; I think he just made it up, which is double cool.

turtle777 · Jun 23, 2005, 10:40 AM

-t

hyperb0le · Jun 23, 2005, 10:59 AM

To my knowledge, a school cannot suspend a child for refusing to say the Pledge. I don't see how this is much different. He just happened to be talking while everyone else was reciting the Pledge.

zizban · Jun 23, 2005, 11:01 AM

That is cool! I am lucky I teach high school and we don't pledge.

mitchell_pgh · Jun 23, 2005, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by hyperb0le

To my knowledge, a school cannot suspend a child for refusing to say the Pledge. I don't see how this is much different. He just happened to be talking while everyone else was reciting the Pledge.

There is a difference between being silent and disrupting the class.

WE DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE SITUATION AND ARE JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS.

This kid could have been in a ton of trouble in the past, warned a million times, etc. etc. WE DON'T KNOW.

He doesn't talk back, he doesn't pick fights, and he's never destroyed property.

I guess this makes him a model child?

When I was a teacher, I was always amazed at now naive parents were about their children.

I think this line also doesn't help my impression of the mother

So she told me what he did. And as she told me, I started to laugh. I didn't laugh a little, either, but I belly-laughed and grabbed my stomach.

I set up a little Cafe Press store with 8's pledge on t-shirts and mugs and totebags. Please let me know if there is anything else I can add to the store for you. Peace, everyone!

Nice...

chris v · Jun 23, 2005, 11:36 AM

Send him to Gitmo, where the little Koran loving traitor can mingle with his own kind-- viscious America-hating, librul, tree-hugging, death-choosing, fetus-killing, Volvo-driving, smelly, sandal wearing, commie scum.

And while you're at it, send this thread to Pol/War.

turtle777 · Jun 23, 2005, 11:39 AM

Now for Sale:

http://www.cafepress.com/beautydishstuff

-t

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Jun 23, 2005, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

-t

chris v · Jun 23, 2005, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

-t

New Zealand has come up in conversation lately as a Permenant Vacation Destination™.

Goldfinger · Jun 23, 2005, 11:41 AM

Burn him !

chris v · Jun 23, 2005, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

There is a difference between being silent and disrupting the class.

WE DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE SITUATION AND ARE JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS.

This kid could have been in a ton of trouble in the past, warned a million times, etc. etc. WE DON'T KNOW.

Always trust the Authorities to do the right thing at all times. Be complacent, keep your head down, and rest assured that they have our best interests at heart.

turtle777 · Jun 23, 2005, 11:47 AM

-t

Goldfinger · Jun 23, 2005, 11:50 AM

iMOTOR · 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by chris v

Volvo-driving, commie scum.

I drive a Volvo, So that makes me a commie scum?

wait

andi*pandi · Jun 23, 2005, 12:10 PM

pssst.... the sarcasmonometer is thru the roof!

give that kid a medal.

paul w · Jun 23, 2005, 12:12 PM

that reminds me of when in Kindergarten we were doing the pledge thing. Some smart alec decided it would be a good time to raise his right arm in a salute.

Boy did the teacher smack that kid hard. It took me a few years to realize why.

mitchell_pgh · Jun 23, 2005, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by chris v

Always trust the Authorities to do the right thing at all times. Be complacent, keep your head down, and rest assured that they have our best interests at heart.

Always side against the Authorities, it's obvious that they are against us.

My apologies if I don't trust a blog 100% especially when dealing with a parent of a 3rd grader.

Captain Obvious · Jun 23, 2005, 01:01 PM

Let him stay in school. By virtue of being a dork he'll have a far worse time in class than at home.
He wasn't making a political statement he is just that big a tool.

Yeah, he doesn't get beat up on a daily basis

ReggieX · Jun 23, 2005, 02:09 PM

I got bitched out a few times for not saying the Pledge when I lived in the US. I told them to go screw, I wasn't a citizen. I just sat silently through the whole thing. I also couldn't believe that it was a friggin' DAILY thing. The most I ever did as a kid was sing "God Save The Queen" and "O Canada" at assemblies.

jasonsRX7 · Jun 23, 2005, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

By virtue of being a dork he'll have a far worse time in class than at home.

As the Captain will tell you, there are few things in life more important than being popular. I don't care what it takes, stitch a football to their hands if necessary, but by god don't let these kids watch Star Trek! Because when it's all said and done, what's really going to matter when they look back on their lives is how popular they were in the 4th grade.

JoshuaZ · Jun 23, 2005, 02:51 PM

Wow, I have to say though, I liked what the kid said.

Lord knows he won't be getting any dates during high school.

budster101 · Jun 23, 2005, 03:14 PM

I think he's going to have some trouble in his coming years that far outweighs this, either that or he'll found his own computer company and make a billion or two working for $1.00 per year. It's a toss up.

Based on his behavior, if he ever comes to MacNN someday, he'll most certainly be banned once or twice. Call it a gut feeling.

RAILhead · Jun 23, 2005, 03:39 PM

d0rk!!11!

Mithras · Jun 23, 2005, 03:53 PM

I think it's odd that most of the talk focuses on the kid. Sure, he's a dork.
But if you ask me, it's the principal that's really the odd duck here.

"This isn't humorous. The Pledge is an extremely important and patriotic moment each morning in the classroom. I am ashamed of your son's behavior, and I hope you are, too."

This is the sign of a sad, twisted little soul.

budster101 · Jun 23, 2005, 04:01 PM

The problem is more at home than with the principle. Mom should attend class with her child for a few weeks maybe, if possible, once per week for several.

I agree though, the principle should have stated his oppinion in a better fashion. If the young man doesn't want to say the pledge, he doesn't have to, but to mock it and become a bad influence for the rest of the children is not proper. Again, this kid is what 8 years old? A bit harsh maybe, but maybe not.

Here are your words:

"I think the principal should be wrapped in an American flag and burned, or something. What a cool kid! I don't think that's an official Star Trek pledge or anything; I think he just made it up, which is double cool."

A bit harsh as well. I don't think it was cool at all, just dumb, and he should learn a little respect, as it will carry him a long way in his life. This is where mabye his Mom and Dad may be failing a wee-bit.

If you think the Principle exhibited traits of a sad and twisted soul, then what do your words say about you?

Mithras · Jun 23, 2005, 04:10 PM

Well, I was obviously joking, while she was not.
And to be fair, I think weird people are the most interesting and the most morally developed, as a rule of thumb.

budster101 · Jun 23, 2005, 04:14 PM

Weird at 8 though? That's a problem, not an asset. Quirky is ok as long as character is behind it, but he's not starting off very good at that age. His parents need to help him develop better, before he can change the rules.

The joking part with you isn't that funny though. When you say someone should be wrapped in the AMERICAN FLAG and burned, it's hard to say, oh, I was just joking...

There is some seriousness in all joking around, but I don't think for a moment you meant that it should happen, just the fact that you worded your response that way, made it seem more harsh than funny.

Like the principle... more harsh than it should have been.

Superchicken · Jun 23, 2005, 07:17 PM

What's wrong with this kid, he doesn't think the Federation should be under God? Twit...

James L · Jun 23, 2005, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by chris v

Send him to Gitmo, where the little Koran loving traitor can mingle with his own kind-- viscious America-hating, librul, tree-hugging, death-choosing, fetus-killing, Volvo-driving, smelly, sandal wearing, commie scum.

You need a hug.

tavilach · Jun 23, 2005, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by Superchicken

What's wrong with this kid, he doesn't think the Federation should be under God? Twit...

Whoa there, pal.

He's a twit for possibly not believing in God? Believe what you want, but never impose your beliefs on anyone. It's absolutely disgusting, and by far the most troubling aspect of organized religioun.

On the off chance that you think I'm trying to impose my beliefs, I'm not an atheist.

Ghoser777 · Jun 23, 2005, 07:31 PM

I'm not sure what the principal thinks he's accomplishing by being a hardass with the mom. They both should have laughed it off, the principal should have said that it was disruptive what the student did and he needs to recite the actual pledge in the future, and he hopes the mother can communicate that to her son. There's no need to suspend the kid or anything. The only reason this incident became an issue is because the principal let it become one. Unless the kid did it a couple times after being told, this should not have escalated.

Ghoser777 · Jun 23, 2005, 07:33 PM

Oh, and for the record: it's principal, not principle.

[/pedantic]

tavilach · Jun 23, 2005, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by Ghoser777

Oh, and for the record: it's principal, not principle.

[/pedantic]

My high school principal was actually my pal

.

budster101 · Jun 23, 2005, 07:49 PM

Ha-ha "Pedantic"...

Cadaver · Jun 23, 2005, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Yup, only in America... where your not a true and patriotic American unless you're a white christian republican without a sense of humor... where everyone takes everything waaaay to seriously and its always someone else's fault, never your own (so sue 'em).

Presuming the kid is not otherwise a continuous disruptive influence on the class or has a history of behaviour problems, someone needs to tell the principal to lighten the hell up.

RAILhead · Jun 23, 2005, 09:01 PM

For the love of Kirk, EVERYONE just take it easy!

budster101 · Jun 23, 2005, 09:05 PM

I never get tired of that one.

Well, I'll take the principal's side on this one, as so many parents fail their children when it comes to being respectful. Though, his wording was very poor.

goMac · Jun 24, 2005, 02:12 AM

I say beat the kid. Someone needs to teach those 4th graders how to stay in line and properly pay respect to the United States. What good is our school system if it produces terrorists?

Randman · Jun 24, 2005, 03:03 AM

BasketofPuppies · Jun 24, 2005, 07:14 AM

Why does every thread about some American doing something stupid and being punished for it turn into a The United States is a bad place thread?

Goldfinger · Jun 24, 2005, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by BasketofPuppies

Why does every thread about some American doing something stupid and being punished for it turn into a The United States is a bad place thread?

Because things like these give the states a bad name. Overreacting on trivial stuff like this. And this isn't the first, last and only incident.

EDIT: yes, back to green stars !

andi*pandi · Jun 24, 2005, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by Ghoser777

I'm not sure what the principal thinks he's accomplishing by being a hardass with the mom. They both should have laughed it off, the principal should have said that it was disruptive what the student did and he needs to recite the actual pledge in the future, and he hopes the mother can communicate that to her son. There's no need to suspend the kid or anything. The only reason this incident became an issue is because the principal let it become one. Unless the kid did it a couple times after being told, this should not have escalated.

well said. Suspension is too much for the "crime" at issue.

chris v · Jun 24, 2005, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by James L

You need a hug.

You need a Sarcasmonometer™

BasketofPuppies · Jun 24, 2005, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

Because things like these give the states a bad name. Overreacting on trivial stuff like this. And this isn't the first, last and only incident.

Don't kids in Belgium get suspended for disrupting class?

budster101 · Jun 24, 2005, 07:56 AM

Only if they pledge allegance to SILVER instead of GOLD....

mollleeeemolleeeemolllleeeeemoleeee... sorry.

Goldfinger · Jun 24, 2005, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by BasketofPuppies

Don't kids in Belgium get suspended for disrupting class?

no.

You can get suspended for serious things like beating someone up beyond recognition. But disrupting class ? Please. Send the kid to the hallway to cool down for 10 minutes and then let him back in.

Unless I'm not getting what "disrupting class" means.

Ghoser777 · Jun 24, 2005, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

no.

You can get suspended for serious things like beating someone up beyond recognition. But disrupting class ? Please. Send the kid to the hallway to cool down for 10 minutes and then let him back in.

Unless I'm not getting what "disrupting class" means.

You're not suppose to do that in a lot of districts that I know of because it's a liability issue - if something happens to the kid while in the hallway, you are liable because you were suppose to be watching him.

James L · Jun 24, 2005, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by chris v

You need a Sarcasmonometer™

jamil5454 · Jun 24, 2005, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by Ghoser777

You're not suppose to do that in a lot of districts that I know of because it's a liability issue - if something happens to the kid while in the hallway, you are liable because you were suppose to be watching him.

Yep.

This is one of the biggest problems in the US. Everyone wants to sue everyone else, and no one trusts their fellow citizens. Maybe one day after my education I'll move to Europe or something. I've always liked the style of life over there.

WHICH reminds me...

20 minutes of my time were 'hijacked' by a US army recruiter in the Barton Creek Mall yesterday. He just didn't seem to understand that I didn't want to be a part of the US military. The army may be the perfect fit for others, but I already have a pretty good plan what the next 5-10 years of my life will be like, and they sure don't include serving the military. He pretty much shut up when I told him I'd have a problem with the authority.

budster101 · Jun 24, 2005, 09:15 AM

I'm glad you didn't join, this means less lives will be lost during times of conflict because of selfish idiots.
That recruiter should be given a severe tongue lashing for having a terrible judge of character.

20 minutes of your life huh? That must have been horrid! Want a hug?

Glad you could "shut him up" by telling him outright what sort of person you are and most likely will become. I'm sure he feels quite proud to go and possibly die to protect your freedom.

What a wonderful person you must be...