[el chupacabra]

My sister got this usb mouse with a fish in it for someones birthday and it wont work on a brand new iMac. A message comes up that says something like " voltage max out". Its a 5 volt mouse from a 2 bit company http://www.thinkgeek.com that offers no technical advise and their tech support is run by "challegened people" to say the least. I can't imagine there would be too much a limit on the usb 2 ports since these are often used to power hard drives. My sister is an electrical engineer that says its a "dumb mac thing". This mouse worked on another unix and linux machine.

Does anyone know anything about voltage and power limits on mac usb ports?

[budster101]

She's an electrical engineer and the best she could come up with is say that it is a "dumb Mac thing"?
Sounds like a dumb sister thing.

Seriously,

Maybe there is a problem with your ports?
Actually, I guess this mouse was originally made for Macs first, and then later for PCs so, your sister is wrong.

Review Source

Re: USB Optical Liquid Mouse - with Floating Santa Review Comments
I'm reminded of when this product was first launched (with a different filling other than Santa), it was a Mac-only product, launched at CES I believe. Nobody from the mac side liked it, and the rep at ces said something to the effect of "I hate it too. We'll probably release it for PC later--PC users like crap like this."

I thought that was a little funny

Is this the mouse in question?: (Maybe next time post a link directly to the thing you are talking about?)
The USB Optical Liquid Mouse has these features.

-USB interface and optical input
-Works with PC, Mac OS and notebooks (with USB port)
-Choose either floating Duck or Fish or Santa Claus
-2-button mouse with scroll wheel
-Weight: 123g
-Cable length: 56" (142 cm)



That thing is FUGLY.

Why not get this one instead?

http://www.welovemacs.com/h2owwhite.html

It's a similar mouse but has a floating Apple logo in it.

[JoshuaZ]

I once got that message as well. I was trying to run something through my keyboard hub, and the computer didn't like it. Not a big deal. I would agree, its probably the dumb mouse.

[turtle777]

I agree, something is flawed with Apple's USB implementation, at least in my Mac mini.

I get that message everytime I connect a USB2 data stick to a powered (!!!) USB2 hub. I mean, WTF ?
Why would my mini tell me it doesn't have enough power if the power comes from the hub and its AC adapter. This has to be a design fault.The only way to use the stick is to DIRECTLY connect to the mini's USB2 port. Doesn't work on powered USB1.1 hubs either.

-t

[tooki]

That's probably the hub's fault. Sounds to me like the hub is declaring itself as unpowered even though it is powered.

Apple strictly follows USB power rules: when you connect a USB device, it first stays turned off. Then, it tells the computer "Hey! I use X amount of power. Can I power up please?". The computer adds up the power from all the USB gadgets and determines where they're connected, and then gives the USB device an answer. If enough power is there, the device is allowed to turn on. If not, the device is prohibited from powering up, and you get the message on the screen.

tooki

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by tooki

That's probably the hub's fault. Sounds to me like the hub is declaring itself as unpowered even though it is powered.

Apple strictly follows USB power rules: when you connect a USB device, it first stays turned off. Then, it tells the computer "Hey! I use X amount of power. Can I power up please?". The computer adds up the power from all the USB gadgets and determines where they're connected, and then gives the USB device an answer. If enough power is there, the device is allowed to turn on. If not, the device is prohibited from powering up, and you get the message on the screen.

tooki

But we are talking about a USB data stick, for Pete's sake. Those don't use a lot of power.
And it doesn't even work when I plug it in my Apple keyboard. I tried two different hubs and the keybaodr. I don't think ALL of them are broken.

-t

[el chupacabra]

Originally Posted by budster101

Maybe there is a problem with your ports?

well that what im wondering too...

Actually, I guess this mouse was originally made for Macs first, and then later for PCs so, your sister is wrong.

yea I found that link/story too in trying to find out who made the thing and any technical specs.
That is the mouse in question and I didn't post a link right too it because as you see its from a two bit company that privides no real data on the thing that can help solve the problem.

[el chupacabra]

Originally Posted by tooki

Apple strictly follows USB power rules: when you connect a USB device, it first stays turned off. Then, it tells the computer "Hey! I use X amount of power. Can I power up please?". The computer adds up the power from all the USB gadgets and determines where they're connected, and then gives the USB device an answer. If enough power is there, the device is allowed to turn on. If not, the device is prohibited from powering up, and you get the message on the screen.

tooki

So do you think maybe it is a defective mouse or iMac port. Its a weird question but the way I see it, I plugged this thing directly into the main USB 2 port not the keyboard and it said there wasn't enough power... when their should be tons of power. Im prety sure an external HD or dvd would take more power. Besides the mouse ran on all different computers, so I have to wonder about the iMacs ports.

turtle
But we are talking about a USB data stick, for Pete's sake. Those don't use a lot of power.
And it doesn't even work when I plug it in my Apple keyboard. I tried two different hubs and the keybaodr. I don't think ALL of them are broken.

Thats what I thought

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by turtle777

But we are talking about a USB data stick, for Pete's sake. Those don't use a lot of power.
And it doesn't even work when I plug it in my Apple keyboard. I tried two different hubs and the keybaodr. I don't think ALL of them are broken.

-t

If the stick declares that it takes too much power, it won't be allowed to turn on-it's as simple as that. Is your stick from a reputable firm, or "Bob's Memory and Storm Door Co.?" My PNY sticks work fine on anything I plug them into-but I plug them directly into the computer, not a hub or keyboard (which is itself a hub).

One thing I've noticed: Lexar USB drives seem to have problems with a lot of computers. I saw one that's was marked as "compatible with Windows XP" simply refuse to activate until the user loaded some kind of bogus "driver" on the XP computer. The note specifically did NOT say "after you load our driver." It was a flaw in the device, pure and simple, so I stay away from them.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ghporter

If the stick declares that it takes too much power, it won't be allowed to turn on-it's as simple as that. Is your stick from a reputable firm, or "Bob's Memory and Storm Door Co.?" My PNY sticks work fine on anything I plug them into-but I plug them directly into the computer, not a hub or keyboard (which is itself a hub).

It's a Kingston Data Traveller. Thought Kingston is quite reputable. Whatever.

I recommend SanDisk Cruzers or Micros. Haven't had any problems with them, neither on Macs nor on PCs.

I still think it's an Apple USB implementation error. It has nothing to do with drivers, and to my knowledge, a USB stick can not take more than 500 mA in power. I mean, what would it do with that much power anyways ? So I don't see how that stick could create a problem like that, aside that Apple is interpreting the USB data incorrectly and "thinks" that there is a high-powered device trying to suck the heck out of the port...

-t

[milhous]

slightly off topic, but i agree it could be something with the implementation. i remember a while back where users were discussing an apparent performance gap of using usb2 hard disks between the mac and windows. i'm quite curious if it's still the case.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by milhous

slightly off topic, but i agree it could be something with the implementation. i remember a while back where users were discussing an apparent performance gap of using usb2 hard disks between the mac and windows. i'm quite curious if it's still the case.

well, I just did some XBench tests with a new external HD, FW and USB2. If you put USB2 at 100%, FW was at 250%. I'm not sure if this is Apple, USB2, or a combination of both...

-t

[tooki]

Originally Posted by turtle777

But we are talking about a USB data stick, for Pete's sake. Those don't use a lot of power.
And it doesn't even work when I plug it in my Apple keyboard. I tried two different hubs and the keybaodr. I don't think ALL of them are broken.

-t

Some thumb drives DO use much more power than others, and in particular with early large-capacity models, they DID exceed the amount of power an unpowered hub could provide. Most of the recent models, on the other hand, use very little power and work on any hub.

I do agree that it's exceedingly unlikely that all your hubs are faulty.

I suppose it's possible that the OS is corrupted, and is misinterpreting the power-consumption data from the thumb drive because of it.

tooki

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by tooki

Some thumb drives DO use much more power than others, and in particular with early large-capacity models, they DID exceed the amount of power an unpowered hub could provide. Most of the recent models, on the other hand, use very little power and work on any hub.

Bought it three months ago. A 256 MB model. Shouldn't be a problem.

Originally Posted by tooki

I suppose it's possible that the OS is corrupted, and is misinterpreting the power-consumption data from the thumb drive because of it.

OS 10.3.7 or so through 10.4.1. All the same.

It's just weird and annoying...

-t

[budster101]

<Scautish Accent>How about the thumb drive is crrrrrraaaaaaaappppp?</Scautish Accent>

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by budster101

<Scautish Accent>How about the thumb drive is crrrrrraaaaaaaappppp?</Scautish Accent>

Obviously.

-t

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by turtle777

I recommend SanDisk Cruzers or Micros. Haven't had any problems with them, neither on Macs nor on PCs.

I have. I had a Cruzer Mini that would randomly scramble files I put onto it every once in a while after having owned it for only three months. Reformatting the drive would make it work again... for a while. Eventually it would start corrupting files again, usually at the least convenient possible moment. I did a Google search, and found that there are others who have also had data loss problem with the SanDisk flash drives. I did get SanDisk to replace it under warranty, and the new one hasn't become corrupted yet (knock on wood). However, the new one won't plug into an unpowered hub, although the old one did.

[tooki]

FWIW, I use a 512MB SanDisk Cruzer Micro and it's been perfect.

tooki

[tshow2k]

FWIW, I have the Kingston Data Traveler Elite 1GB USB Drive, and it will not work in my G4 Cube - either plugged into the keyboard, 20" AL display or directly to the Cube. It does work in my G5...

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by tooki

FWIW, I use a 512MB SanDisk Cruzer Micro and it's been perfect.

tooki

I have a SanDisk Micro 1GB, it works in on my PowerBook, my G3 Power Mac, and crusty old PIIs with USB 1.

[macaddict0001]

the voltage remains constant for any device, its the resistance and ampere measurements that change, the maximum power output is by the white sheet on usb2 500 mini amps per port, so with an unpowered hub you take 500 subtract the power consumed by all devices including the hub, if that number is greater than 0 they will all run or if the hub is powered they will all run. However most pc's don't place that 500 mini amp limit on ports so some manufactures have started taking this into consideration and making power hungry devices hence hindering compatibility on some computers.

[Spliffdaddy]

I've built peecees that have jumpers on the motherboard that select USB voltage (5v & 3.3v). Apparently there's some sort of 'lack of following standards' in USB implementation.