[mindwaves]

I'm always confused about the various shifting operations possible in a car. I own a 2005 Honda Civic EX SE automatic and was confused about the 2nd and the D3 modes. I read the manual and know what they do and I would like to use 2nd gear but is it possible to switch between Drive and 2nd gear without stopping the engine and from 2nd to Drive also? Do I need to make any intermediate shifting between the two? Can I shift at any speeds? Thanks.

[LegendaryPinkOx]

On most automatics you can switch between drive and second gear whenever you choose. This is mostly used in case you need to climb a hill or need a more tourqie gear. I would recommend against shifting into second at speeds greater than 45 mph though, most auto-trannies will prevent you from doing it anyway.

cheers!

[iT4c0]

I sometimes like to slow down by shifting to 3 and 2nd gear. I can't drive manual so I have to fake it on my automatic

[Albert Pujols]

Also use 2nd for going down hills.

[Athens]

I just like Manuals more

[powertrippin]

Originally Posted by iT4c0

I sometimes like to slow down by shifting to 3 and 2nd gear. I can't drive manual so I have to fake it on my automatic

Don't do that. Brakes are designed to slow your car down. Transmissions and engines are not designed to do that. It's a lot easier and cheaper to replace your brakes than your engine/transmission.

[powertrippin]

Originally Posted by mindwaves

I'm always confused about the various shifting operations possible in a car. I own a 2005 Honda Civic EX SE automatic and was confused about the 2nd and the D3 modes. I read the manual and know what they do and I would like to use 2nd gear but is it possible to switch between Drive and 2nd gear without stopping the engine and from 2nd to Drive also? Do I need to make any intermediate shifting between the two? Can I shift at any speeds? Thanks.

D3= you start off in 1st gear, then it automatically shifts to 2nd gear when needed, then it automatically shifts to third when needed. ie, you use all 3 gears, automatically.

2nd means you start out in 1st, then it shifts to 2nd automatically when needed. If you're going up a hill, and your honda is starting to bog a little, you can do two things:

1. Punch the gas. It'll make the transmission drop down a gear.
2. If you're currently in third (and going 40-60mph somewhere), you can shift your transmission into 2nd gear, to achieve the same results with less throttle input.

You don't need to come to a stop before shifting between the two. Just don't put it into 2nd gear when you're travelling at high speeds, otherwise you're going to redline your engine and hurt things.

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by powertrippin

Don't do that. Brakes are designed to slow your car down. Transmissions and engines are not designed to do that. It's a lot easier and cheaper to replace your brakes than your engine/transmission.

Yeah it's like using a cashmere sweater to clean up a spill, so you don't mess up your dishrags.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by powertrippin

Don't do that. Brakes are designed to slow your car down. Transmissions and engines are not designed to do that. It's a lot easier and cheaper to replace your brakes than your engine/transmission.

For a Auto ya dont do that, for a manual its how I drive it

[mindwaves]

Thanks everyone. Will try it on that hill where I live. :-)

[powertrippin]

Originally Posted by Athens

For a Auto ya dont do that, for a manual its how I drive it

Maybe you aren't listening. Slowing down your car by using the engine by shifting into a lower gear is BAD. It doesn't matter if you have an automatic, manual transmission, or a CVT or WHATEVER. It puts a lot more wear and tear on both your transmission and your engine. You think it's cool to downshift into a corner, fine, as long as you know that it's bad for your car. You think you're being like a racecar driver? You're wrong. They're blipping the throttle only so they can pull out of a corner harder. They don't downshift to slow the car down, which if done on slippery surfaces, can cause a loss of traction and make you spin out.

[jasonsRX7]

It's really tricky to get the hang of properly. I've spun out at a racing school because of a poorly executed downshift. I entered the corner too fast and in too high of a gear, so I was bogged down coming out of the corner. Realizing that, and that I was about to enter another corner, I downshifted which sent my RPMs flying and my rear wheels lost traction and I spun off the track.

My instructor said I would have been ok had I not tried to downshift between corners, and on my next pass not to enter the corner so hot, and to remember to get all my shifting and breaking done beforehand.

It was unbelievably fun.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by powertrippin

Maybe you aren't listening. Slowing down your car by using the engine by shifting into a lower gear is BAD. It doesn't matter if you have an automatic, manual transmission, or a CVT or WHATEVER. It puts a lot more wear and tear on both your transmission and your engine. You think it's cool to downshift into a corner, fine, as long as you know that it's bad for your car. You think you're being like a racecar driver? You're wrong. They're blipping the throttle only so they can pull out of a corner harder. They don't downshift to slow the car down, which if done on slippery surfaces, can cause a loss of traction and make you spin out.

Very rarely do I agree with what you say. This is one of those rare times.

But unfortunately you are wasting your time with athens. It has been explained to him time and again the flaws with his downshifting to slow down as opposed to using his brakes. In addition to being a hazard to everyone on the road with him he will also be replacing expensive trans parts instead of cheap brake pads.

[von Wrangell]

Downshifting depends on the surface you are driving on. I take it most of you who don't like downshifting are not too used to snowy, icy and gravel roads. Downshifting is the best way to control the car in those conditions. Using the brakes is suicide in those conditions.

But you are sort of right because you shouldn't use that method unless in the conditions I mentioned above. On regular roads it's just stupid to downshift.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Downshifting depends on the surface you are driving on. I take it most of you who don't like downshifting are not too used to snowy, icy and gravel roads. Downshifting is the best way to control the car in those conditions. Using the brakes is suicide in those conditions.

But you are sort of right because you shouldn't use that method unless in the conditions I mentioned above. On regular roads it's just stupid to downshift.

Actually, you have that completely backwards! If you downshift in snow you WILL lose traction. Brakes are the only way to go as you can control the force used to slow the car. By down shifting you have very little control!

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Actually, you have that completely backwards! If you downshift in snow you WILL lose traction. Brakes are the only way to go as you can control the force used to slow the car. By down shifting you have very little control!

Depends on how much rpm's you put on it. Pushing the brakes in snow/ice/gravel is the easiest way to lose traction(locking the wheels being the main reason). By downshifting you keep the wheels rolling which allows you to still keep control of the car.

There's a reason that in places like Iceland 1/4 to 1/5 who dies in the traffic is a foreigner(and that's 99% during the summer). It's because they only know how to drive on "real" roads.

[ghporter]

The basic idea of the "lower gear" settings on an automatic transmission is that they keep the transmission from shifting up beyond where you set it. This is useful on hills (up AND down), and on variable terrain where the transmission would "search" because of intermittent hills. In most cases you just leave it in "drive" and the transmission does its thing just fine, but sometimes you want to let the transmission know there's something else going on-like a heavy load and lots of hills.

And I'm 100% behind powertrippin and Railroader; brakes are BUILT for slowing the vehicle, while any deceleration effect from downshifting is purely incidental, and can be (usually IS) detrimental to the engine and transmission. It is hugely easier to replace brake pads than to replace a clutch-and humongously easier to replace brake pads than rebuild an automatic transmission! These things are built the way they are for a reason.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by ghporter

And I'm 100% behind powertrippin and Railroader; brakes are BUILT for slowing the vehicle, while any deceleration effect from downshifting is purely incidental, and can be (usually IS) detrimental to the engine and transmission. It is hugely easier to replace brake pads than to replace a clutch-and humongously easier to replace brake pads than rebuild an automatic transmission! These things are built the way they are for a reason.

But brakes with ABS are completely useless on gravel(sort of in snow and ice as well). They aren't built for gravel roads.

[brapper]

on an automatic transmission, is there anything wrong with shifting into neutral while in motion?

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

But brakes with ABS are completely useless on gravel(sort of in snow and ice as well). They aren't built for gravel roads.

Who says? ABS should be able to identify the wheels that are braking effectively and those that aren't (consistent rotation speed is the metric, not "stopped" or "rolling") and adjust braking to ensure all of the wheels all work as effectively as possible. Perhaps older, "rolling" or "stopped" sensor-based ABS would have problems, but current systems shouldn't be any problem at all.

[bradoesch]

Originally Posted by brapper

on an automatic transmission, is there anything wrong with shifting into neutral while in motion?

Not at all.

This is a common thing to do when slowing down on an icy road.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Who says? ABS should be able to identify the wheels that are braking effectively and those that aren't (consistent rotation speed is the metric, not "stopped" or "rolling") and adjust braking to ensure all of the wheels all work as effectively as possible. Perhaps older, "rolling" or "stopped" sensor-based ABS would have problems, but current systems shouldn't be any problem at all.

Most people who are used to drive on gravel roads. Because on gravel the top of the surface is very loose which means that the sensors will pick up the tires as stopped or close to stopping most of the time which means you skid on top of the layer instead of getting enough traction to quite literally dig yourself down under the top layer and into the more firm layer of the road.

I've tried it a couple of times on cars that have ABS(new and old ABS) while I have an old car without ABS. ABS is simply dangerous on gravel. It works great on "real" roads, but on gravel it's a mess to use because you aren't able to dig yourself down into the road to start braking.

[scottiB]

Originally Posted by powertrippin

Don't do that. Brakes are designed to slow your car down. Transmissions and engines are not designed to do that. It's a lot easier and cheaper to replace your brakes than your engine/transmission.

Requoted for emphasis.

[powertrippin]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Downshifting depends on the surface you are driving on. I take it most of you who don't like downshifting are not too used to snowy, icy and gravel roads. Downshifting is the best way to control the car in those conditions. Using the brakes is suicide in those conditions.

But you are sort of right because you shouldn't use that method unless in the conditions I mentioned above. On regular roads it's just stupid to downshift.

That isn't true at all. If it's RWD and you're doing that, it will cause the rear brake bias, resulting in a car that's easy to spin out. If it's FWD, it will create a very forward brake bias, resulting in loss of control if you're in the middle of a turn. Please don't spout total misinformation, you might cause someone to get hurt.

[powertrippin]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Depends on how much rpm's you put on it. Pushing the brakes in snow/ice/gravel is the easiest way to lose traction(locking the wheels being the main reason). By downshifting you keep the wheels rolling which allows you to still keep control of the car.

There's a reason that in places like Iceland 1/4 to 1/5 who dies in the traffic is a foreigner(and that's 99% during the summer). It's because they only know how to drive on "real" roads.

Please don't listen to this guy. He doesn't know what he's talking about... at all.

Moderate braking also allows the wheels to keep turning, your lack of knowledge about this is just simply frightening.

[powertrippin]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

But brakes with ABS are completely useless on gravel(sort of in snow and ice as well). They aren't built for gravel roads.

You are insane. ABS works fine on gravel, snow, and.... well, nothing can stop a car on ice, short of a big chain and anchor.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by powertrippin

Please don't listen to this guy. He doesn't know what he's talking about... at all.

Moderate braking also allows the wheels to keep turning, your lack of knowledge about this is just simply frightening.

Again I agree 100% with Rob here. And quote him for emphasis. And bolded for even more emphasis.

I live in Michigan. Rob lives in Upper Wisconsin. Both states receive a LOT of snow in the Fall, Winter, and Spring. And when I mean a lot I mean a lot of snow. I drive 2.5 hours a day in such conditions. I know what I am talking about. von wrangell is spouting pure nonsense.

Originally Posted by bradoesch

Originally Posted by brapper
on an automatic transmission, is there anything wrong with shifting into neutral while in motion?

Not at all.

This is a common thing to do when slowing down on an icy road.

Do NOT shift into neutral in an automatic transmission while driving. The possibility of slipping into reverse is too great. And if something occurres that requires quick responses you are SOL.

And DON'T do it on icy roads!!! There is no mechanical advantage to shifting into neutral on an icy road. Simply use the brakes.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Again I agree 100% with Rob here. And quote him for emphasis. And bolded for even more emphasis.

I live in Michigan. Rob lives in Upper Wisconsin. Both states receive a LOT of snow in the Fall, Winter, and Spring. And when I mean a lot I mean a lot of snow. I drive 2.5 hours a day in such conditions. I know what I am talking about. von wrangell is spouting pure nonsense.

How much do you drive on gravel roads?

And no I'm not "spouting pure nonsense". I try to get off-road as much as I can and have been in the national rescue service as a driver. One of my off-road "teachers" was in the first expedition that drove to the South Pole. Driving in snow and gravel is what I do every single time I have the chance to do so.

Again, how much do you drive on gravel? And when you talk about driving 2.5 hours a day in snow are you talking about a highway or narrow(one and half width) roads with a curves?

Do NOT shift into neutral in an automatic transmission while driving. The possibility of slipping into reverse is too great. And if something occurres that requires quick responses you are SOL.

And DON'T do it on icy roads!!! There is no mechanical advantage to shifting into neutral on an icy road. Simply use the brakes.

There's still hope, we agree. Or am I still "spouting pure nonsense"? Perhaps only when I disagree with you?

[SVass]

As a fellow owner of a 2005 Honda EX (as well as a 1974 MGB), I feel qualified to comment. I have driven everything from a 1936 Olds (with mechanical brakes) to performance cars. In the old days brakes could overheat and lose their stopping power so manual transmissions were used to aid in braking. Steep hills are dangerous (one near me with a tight turn half way down got 34 cars one winter morning because idiots HAD to get to work) and type of braking makes little difference if you go too fast. Starting down in a lower gear may keep you from speeding and thus is recommended on an icy hill.

My advice for bad conditions or roads would be to get studded tires in the winter and use lower gear at lower speeds on steep hills. Don't get in a hurry and stay/get off the road if the idiots are about. sam

[ihatesuvs68]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Do NOT shift into neutral in an automatic transmission while driving. The possibility of slipping into reverse is too great. And if something occurres that requires quick responses you are SOL.

I'm pretty sure almost any new car has a reverse lockout...but... just in case they don't, be very careful. I shift my SVX into nuetral on really long hills to save gas.

- Rob

[ihatesuvs68]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Driving in snow and gravel is what I do every single time I have the chance to do so.

Then you should have learned by now that downshifting to slow down is a stupid idea. You're full of crap.

[bradoesch]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Do NOT shift into neutral in an automatic transmission while driving. The possibility of slipping into reverse is too great. And if something occurres that requires quick responses you are SOL.

And DON'T do it on icy roads!!! There is no mechanical advantage to shifting into neutral on an icy road. Simply use the brakes.

How about no power to the drive wheels? That's enough of a mechanical advantage for me.

[MallyMal]

Man, this thread reminds me of the time that I was doing about 60MPH on the freeway, my transmission computer malfunctioned and shifted from 4th to 2nd. Almost redlined. Engine growled like hell. Had to drive home in 2nd and at a slow pace. You can imagine the gas mileage sucked.

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by MallyMal

Man, this thread reminds me of the time that I was doing about 60MPH on the freeway, my transmission computer malfunctioned and shifted from 4th to 2nd. Almost redlined. Engine growled like hell. Had to drive home in 2nd and at a slow pace. You can imagine the gas mileage sucked.

Ones uses brakes to slow down AND downshifts at the same time. The brakes are supposed to bear the grunt of the slowdown, but downshifting in the mean time is good practice, with a MT anyways. I have always done that and it surely does not harm the transmission or the engine....

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

How much do you drive on gravel roads?

And no I'm not "spouting pure nonsense". I try to get off-road as much as I can and have been in the national rescue service as a driver. One of my off-road "teachers" was in the first expedition that drove to the South Pole. Driving in snow and gravel is what I do every single time I have the chance to do so.

Again, how much do you drive on gravel? And when you talk about driving 2.5 hours a day in snow are you talking about a highway or narrow(one and half width) roads with a curves?

There's still hope, we agree. Or am I still "spouting pure nonsense"? Perhaps only when I disagree with you?

Look up Durand, Michigan on google maps. Look at the surrounding roads. That's where I currently live. Look up Lennon, Michigan next. I lived for 10 years on a 4 mile long dirt road. You see how it's mostly rural. about 40% of those roads are dirt.

I delivered pizzas in a rural community for 3 years while attending college. Porbably 3-4 hours on dirt roads a afew days a week. At top speeds.

I have a little experience.

My 2.5 hour drive now is currently 95% highway. But for 4 years I did it back roads. Do a search for driving direction from Owosso, MIchigan to Bay City, Michigan. But don't take the expressway which is an extra 25 miles. I used the back roads and that included a couple miles of two trackers. If you don't know what a two tracker is, it's a road that has two dirt paths caused by tires. Grass grows up in the middle. It's really more of a path.

I also worked for GM as an Experimental Engineering Test Mechanic. Guess what I tested. Experimental engines and transmissions. And this included sriving them and finding the perfect calibrations for both safe and comfortable driving.

I know a little about what I am talking about.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by SVass

As a fellow owner of a 2005 Honda EX (as well as a 1974 MGB), I feel qualified to comment. I have driven everything from a 1936 Olds (with mechanical brakes) to performance cars. In the old days brakes could overheat and lose their stopping power so manual transmissions were used to aid in braking. Steep hills are dangerous (one near me with a tight turn half way down got 34 cars one winter morning because idiots HAD to get to work) and type of braking makes little difference if you go too fast. Starting down in a lower gear may keep you from speeding and thus is recommended on an icy hill.

My advice for bad conditions or roads would be to get studded tires in the winter and use lower gear at lower speeds on steep hills. Don't get in a hurry and stay/get off the road if the idiots are about. sam

Good advice.

But I want to stress that a transmission should not be used for slowing down. They should be used for going slow down or up a hill... just not for slowing down.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by bradoesch

How about no power to the drive wheels? That's enough of a mechanical advantage for me.

How is that an advantage? If something bad happens you have "no power to the drive wheels". Again, how is that an advantage?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by villalobos

Ones uses brakes to slow down AND downshifts at the same time. The brakes are supposed to bear the grunt of the slowdown, but downshifting in the mean time is good practice, with a MT anyways. I have always done that and it surely does not harm the transmission or the engine....

Certainly, if you are slowing down with the brakes you should down shift at the same time if you have a manual transmission. You have to be ready for when you want to accellerate again.

[MallyMal]

Originally Posted by villalobos

Ones uses brakes to slow down AND downshifts at the same time. The brakes are supposed to bear the grunt of the slowdown, but downshifting in the mean time is good practice, with a MT anyways. I have always done that and it surely does not harm the transmission or the engine....

I did you quote me by mistake? I said that my transmission computer malfuntioned. It down-shifted on its own while I was driving 60 mph on the freeway.

[ihatesuvs68]

Originally Posted by villalobos

Ones uses brakes to slow down AND downshifts at the same time. The brakes are supposed to bear the grunt of the slowdown, but downshifting in the mean time is good practice, with a MT anyways. I have always done that and it surely does not harm the transmission or the engine....

You're wrong. It puts extra wear on the engine and transmission. The only reason racecars do this is because the brakes start to fade after a few 100mph-20mph braking periods. If you drive on the street you shouldn't be having any brake fade issues. You'll be replacing your clutch sooner, and your engine will wear out sooner. Will you notice it from one year to the next? No. But will it happen? Yes. The more things get used, the sooner they wear out.

[Railroader]

I don't think he meant downshift as a breaking mechanism. See my earlier post. I think that's that he meant.

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by ihatesuvs68

You're wrong. It puts extra wear on the engine and transmission. The only reason racecars do this is because the brakes start to fade after a few 100mph-20mph braking periods. If you drive on the street you shouldn't be having any brake fade issues. You'll be replacing your clutch sooner, and your engine will wear out sooner. Will you notice it from one year to the next? No. But will it happen? Yes. The more things get used, the sooner they wear out.

No i am not wrong. See post below yours for reading understanding and driving know-how.

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by MallyMal

I did you quote me by mistake? I said that my transmission computer malfuntioned. It down-shifted on its own while I was driving 60 mph on the freeway.

Yeah my bad I did not mean to quote you...

[ihatesuvs68]

Originally Posted by villalobos

No i am not wrong. See post below yours for reading understanding and driving know-how.

Gotcha. That's kind of a no brainer.

[iT4c0]

wow, I didn't realized my post could get such a big reaction. I guess I didn't say it right. I don't slow down my car by changing the gear. I do that only when I am slowing down to stop which means probably under 45mph. I probably shouldn't done that anyway after reading all the posts. I will change that bad habit

[Athens]

Originally Posted by powertrippin

Maybe you aren't listening. Slowing down your car by using the engine by shifting into a lower gear is BAD. It doesn't matter if you have an automatic, manual transmission, or a CVT or WHATEVER. It puts a lot more wear and tear on both your transmission and your engine. You think it's cool to downshift into a corner, fine, as long as you know that it's bad for your car. You think you're being like a racecar driver? You're wrong. They're blipping the throttle only so they can pull out of a corner harder. They don't downshift to slow the car down, which if done on slippery surfaces, can cause a loss of traction and make you spin out.

give me a break, the toughest parts of a car is the engine and transmission, otherwise they would break every time you accelerate the 2000 pound beast to driving speeds. Im not talking about at 80 dropping down to 2nd to come to a crashing stop, gearing down as you slow down first is the law hear because you have to remain in gear your not allowed to coast, second maintains emergency acceleration power aka control and saves on breaks. Every one I know that gears down replaces there clutch about as often as the people that done, and guess what that’s over 10 years so I don’t think you know what your talking about. But then again every one I know drives a import perhaps this weakness you speak of afflicts Domestics more

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Very rarely do I agree with what you say. This is one of those rare times.

But unfortunately you are wasting your time with athens. It has been explained to him time and again the flaws with his downshifting to slow down as opposed to using his brakes. In addition to being a hazard to everyone on the road with him he will also be replacing expensive trans parts instead of cheap brake pads.

Hazard? My god what are you talking about now?

Originally Posted by Railroader

Actually, you have that completely backwards! If you downshift in snow you WILL lose traction. Brakes are the only way to go as you can control the force used to slow the car. By down shifting you have very little control!

I live in Canada, Canada has snow, you dont know what your talking about.

[Athens]

...

[Athens]

Originally Posted by ihatesuvs68

You're wrong. It puts extra wear on the engine and transmission. The only reason racecars do this is because the brakes start to fade after a few 100mph-20mph braking periods. If you drive on the street you shouldn't be having any brake fade issues. You'll be replacing your clutch sooner, and your engine will wear out sooner. Will you notice it from one year to the next? No. But will it happen? Yes. The more things get used, the sooner they wear out.

Ok i like to see you drop from 80 to 20 slowing down for a stop light in 5th or 4th gear and then have to take off because the guy behind you isn’t going to stop in time, Have fun with that powerless engine. I have a feeling your a Automatic driver.

[jebjeb]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned heal-toe downshifts. Firstly, getting one right is always very satisfying. Secondly, they are easy on the clutch and don't induce a large driveline shunt compared to if you just dump the clutch with no blip of the accelerator when downshifting.

The primary benefit is that they don't upset the vehicle under braking. A smooth deceleration is achieved primarily by the brakes with a negligible bit of help from the drive train. There is very little change in attitude to the car as the revs are matched while the clutch is in rather than a large change in engine braking when you release the clutch without the revs being matched.

I partially agree with the crowd who say that it is not wise to use engine braking in place of braking. I agree that brakes are the best device to retard motion but engine breaking is very helpful when travelling down long hills. Even many decent modern day performance cars suffer from brake fade during long descents, let alone your run-of-the-mill econobox. Keeping the vehicle in a gear one of two lower than the normal cruising gear at that speed is very beneficial to a smooth and SAFE descent. Same with an Auto gear box. Slap it down to one of the "manual" gears.

The key thing with engine braking is that most of the drive train has no problems with steady deccelerative forces against it. It is when you just dump the down change in and transfer a lot of stress to the clutch and transmission that is the bad side of engine breaking.

One note on shifting into neutral or coasting. A vehicle is unstable when it either has no power being transmitted to the wheels or not under braking. That's why I am not a fan of some of the older or simpler auto gearboxes as they have a habit of coasting. Feels very strange to me.