Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Toyota thinks Americans can't build cars efficiently

Toyota thinks Americans can't build cars efficiently
Thread Tools
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The bottom of Cloud City
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 01:47 AM
 
"In Alabama, trainers had to use "pictorials" to teach some illiterate workers how to use high-tech plant equipment.

"The educational level and the skill level of the people down there is so much lower than it is in Ontario," Fedchun said.

Several U.S. states were reportedly prepared to offer more than double that amount of subsidy. But Fedchun said much of that extra money would have been eaten away by higher training costs than are necessary for the Woodstock project."

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/business/050630/b0630102.html

"Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
     
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: -
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 02:21 AM
 
YAY another US vs World thread.

We really needed one. Thanks!
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Chicago
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 02:24 AM
 
Anyone want to explain to me why the admins let Star Wars Guy post anything he wants?
inscrutable impenetrable impregnable inconceivable
     
Baninated
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois might be cold and flat, but at least it's ugly.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 02:26 AM
 
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 02:29 AM
 
So news is off limits?
     
Baninated
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois might be cold and flat, but at least it's ugly.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 02:31 AM
 
It's political isn't it? US v. World...
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Chicago
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 02:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Ghoser777
So news is off limits?
When the person posting it has a history of choosing topics designed to start flame wars, yes.
inscrutable impenetrable impregnable inconceivable
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 02:48 AM
 
:shrugs:
     
Senior User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Denver
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 03:11 AM
 
Toyota knows Americans can buy cars though, and maybe more and more Americans are considering buying cars made in the US. Maybe it's time to stop buying Toyotas?
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 04:22 AM
 
They make cars in Canada?

Nobody ever mentions my legendary sexual prowess.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Winnipeg
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 05:02 AM
 
Oh please, stuff far more offensive than this gets posted daily and most of you will cheer it on. it's only when someone accuses your country of having flaws that you care.

That said... I didn't realize Ontarians could read.. I thought they were all to busy being freakishly unfriendly and oppressing the prairies.
     
Baninated
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In yer threads
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 06:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by BasketofPuppies
Anyone want to explain to me why the admins let Star Wars Guy post anything he wants?
I've been asking that for years.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 07:54 AM
 
"Toyota thinks Americans can't build cars efficiently"

I didn't read that in the article.

I don't think any American will say Alabama is our educational hub. Perhaps if they built the plants where we have a tradition of "solid manufacturing" there wouldn't be such an issue. In the end, it looks like they picked the site because it was cheaper and next to the old plant [built in work force].
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Outfield - #24
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 08:34 AM
 
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The bottom of Cloud City
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 08:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by Stogieman
They make cars in Canada?
Most fords actually.

"Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 09:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by Superchicken
That said... I didn't realize Ontarians could read.. I thought they were all to busy being freakishly unfriendly and oppressing the prairies.
No, no. You're right, most of us are too busy kicking puppies and plotting against the 'peg.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 09:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by brapper
No, no. You're right, most of us are too busy kicking puppies and plotting against the 'peg.
I KNEW IT!!

     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The bottom of Cloud City
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 09:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by vinster
Toyota knows Americans can buy cars though, and maybe more and more Americans are considering buying cars made in the US. Maybe it's time to stop buying Toyotas?
So what you are saying is that if a foreign manufacturer determines that that it is cheaper to build cars in another country you should boycott that company?

You do know where Mac's are made don't you? And Apple is an American company.

"Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 09:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
So what you are saying is that if a foreign manufacturer determines that that it is cheaper to build cars in another country you should boycott that company?

You do know where Mac's are made don't you? And Apple is an American company.
I would argue a car is a MUCH larger purchase. You buy the car $25,000+ and then pay for service for the life of the car. MANY Americans still try to buy American especially when looking to the big ticket items.

I wouldn't bash Canadians for buying Canadian... I would hope the rest of the world would feel the same way about the USA.
     
Baninated
Join Date: Jul 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 09:30 AM
 
This isn't a US vs World thing. This is an educated society vs ignorant redneck hillbilly society. In other words, north vs south. If anyone is honestly thinking that the south is just as intelligent an educated as the north, they're absolutely insane.
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Near Antietam Creek
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 09:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
Most fords actually.
Incorrect. There are three Ford assembly plants in Canada: Oakville, Ontario (Ford Windstar, Freestar, and Mercury Monterey); Oakville Truck (F-150); St. Thomas Assembly (Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquee and Marauder). The Oakville truck line can handle 111,000 F-150s. Ford is on pace in 2005 to manufacture 850,000 (there are three other plants in the US that make F-150s)

13 assembly plants are in the US and 3 are in Mexico.

source
I am stupidest when I try to be funny.
     
Senior User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Denver
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 09:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
So what you are saying is that if a foreign manufacturer determines that that it is cheaper to build cars in another country you should boycott that company?

You do know where Mac's are made don't you? And Apple is an American company.
Macs are assembled in China and as you say Apple is an American company, not Japanese like Toyota.

I'm much more likely to buy a Ford made in Canada then a Toyota from the same locale. At least if I'm buying from an American company the money should end up back here.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The bottom of Cloud City
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 09:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by scottiB
Incorrect. There are three Ford assembly plants in Canada
What else did you think I was talking about when I said many fords are built in Canada?

"Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Under the shade of Swords
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 09:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
What else did you think I was talking about when I said many fords are built in Canada?
You actually said most


I'll leave you guys for your regular US vs. Canada fight.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
Mac Elite
Join Date: May 2001
Location: type 13 planet
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 09:47 AM
 
Yeah, move your plants to the poorest areas in one of the poorest states and then act surprised when your workforce is "uneducated". Duh.

And it's not always about costs, either. From experience, uneducated bama workers bitch less than Canadians. You guys tend to whine a bit when you sever limbs.. expect paid time off.. **** like that.

But honestly, do you believe this crap? Don't you get it? The Japanese know how to play Canadians almost as well as Americans. "Awww, yes, Canadians much smarter than stupid Americans *snicker*. Your brains just bigger. Soak up training much faster *snicker*"

Then you go and work for $4 less an hour.

New, Improved and Legal in 50 States
     
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 10:10 AM
 
I would personally buy a Japanese car because when you own one you can be confident it will start and stay running everytime you put the key in the ignition. With a Fix Or Repair Daily (FORD) or General Mess (GM) you are taking your chances.

Has nothing to do with keeping money "here" and everything to do with "it just works". You know, the same reason people buy Macs?
Main Computer and EyeTV 200 DVR: Mac Mini Core Duo 1.66Ghz 2GB Ram 160GB HD.
Road Warrior: MacBook White 2.0Ghz Core 2 Duo 2GB Ram 80GB HD.
Kubuntu Book: Dell Lattitude C400 running Kubuntu Linux 6.06 1.33 Pentium 3 CPU 1GB RAM 40GB HD with Creative laptop speakers (it only has one speaker).
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The bottom of Cloud City
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 10:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by pooka
Then you go and work for $4 less an hour.
"In addition to lower training costs, Canadian workers are also $4 to $5 cheaper to employ partly thanks to the taxpayer-funded health-care system in Canada,"


"Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Under the shade of Swords
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 10:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by ndptal85
I would personally buy a Japanese car because when you own one you can be confident it will start and stay running everytime you put the key in the ignition. With a Fix Or Repair Daily (FORD) or General Mess (GM) you are taking your chances.

Has nothing to do with keeping money "here" and everything to do with "it just works". You know, the same reason people buy Macs?
uh oh! You've invoked the wrath of Kilbey(aka Railroader IIRC) with that post. Be prepared for the assault!

TAKE COVER!

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
Mac Elite
Join Date: May 2001
Location: type 13 planet
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 11:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
"In addition to lower training costs, Canadian workers are also $4 to $5 cheaper to employ partly thanks to the taxpayer-funded health-care system in Canada,"
The other part being the fact that Canadians work for less.. cause they're smarter.

Dude, I'm not sour. I don't care which state or province has the smartest blue collar workers. The Japanese make fun of all of us the same. We all look alike to them.

New, Improved and Legal in 50 States
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The bottom of Cloud City
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 11:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by pooka
The other part being the fact that Canadians work for less.. cause they're smarter.

Dude, I'm not sour. I don't care which state or province has the smartest blue collar workers. The Japanese make fun of all of us the same. We all look alike to them.
I dunno but bringing that much work and money to Ontario is sorta worth the Japanese laughing isn't it?

"Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 11:26 AM
 
This thread is now about Japanese Models:
( Last edited by Xeo; Jul 6, 2005 at 11:41 AM. Reason: img too big)
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
my bandmy web sitemy guitar effectsmy photosfacebookbrightpoint
     
Baninated
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois might be cold and flat, but at least it's ugly.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 11:30 AM
 
What was the thread about again?
     
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 11:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
Most fords actually.
Yeah, junk.



(except the GT, that is.)
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 11:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by RAILhead
Hubba-hubba
Maury. I love ya, man.


too bad they airbrushed the nipples... got one that isn't "touched"? If so, email it to me.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
Baninated
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois might be cold and flat, but at least it's ugly.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 11:43 AM
 
DUDE bring back the model.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 11:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by ndptal85
I would personally buy a Japanese car because when you own one you can be confident it will start and stay running everytime you put the key in the ignition. With a Fix Or Repair Daily (FORD) or General Mess (GM) you are taking your chances.

Has nothing to do with keeping money "here" and everything to do with "it just works". You know, the same reason people buy Macs?
Well, in general, you are correct, but there are US cars that are vastly superior to even the Japanese cars regarding reliability. Every car is different. How can you compare a Honda Accord to a SUV or large truck?

P.S. The US makes better cars then the Europe if your only criteria is errors in manufacturing. The US is in the middle.
     
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 11:47 AM
 
Interestingly, Toyota is building a huge plant to build truck in San Antonio, Texas. One reason they chose this location is the availability of intelligent, educated workers. Further, I think the president of the Automotive Parts Manufacturers Association has a vested interest in promoting Canadian auto production-at whomever's cost. Having lived in the Deep South for a LONG time, I can interpret what Fedchun said differently than the CBC does. It is most likely that they had problems with the specialized vocabulary used in the auto industry when initially training unskilled new-hires. It happens all the time. Medical schools use LOTS OF PICTURES to teach medical terminology-take a look at any anatomy text book.

As for Japanese companies having "problems with new plants" in Mississippi and Alabama, I haven't seen any reports about them. Honda fairly gushes about their new plants... And just a little FYI, my last Honda was built in Ontario, but my current one was built in Ohio.

Edit to add: I forgot to mention that some Japanese companies had more problems with culture than anything else when they first started building cars in the States. Mazda refurbished a Ford plant in Flat Rock, Michigan a long time ago, and immediately started running into cultural problems. The Japanese trainers had certain ideas about female workers that were counter to the American women's ideas-the trainers tended to chew out women a lot, blame them for equipment failures, and generally treat them badly. Boy did they screw up! They've gotten better, a lot better, and that plant now turns out some of the best-built cars (both Mazda and Ford models) around. Culture clashes go in both directions; it's quite possible that the new hires in Toyota's plants were not culturally ready for the team-oriented, production-centric manufacturing philosophy that Toyota uses.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The bottom of Cloud City
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 11:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by MacNStein
Yeah, junk.



(except the GT, that is.)
Yup, the Canadian plant doesn't design them, they just build them the way Americans told them to.

"Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 11:54 AM
 
Yeah yeah freakin size...

Knock it off
Maury
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
my bandmy web sitemy guitar effectsmy photosfacebookbrightpoint
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The bottom of Cloud City
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 11:56 AM
 
Someone is trying really hard to ignore the topic isn't he

BTW the mods already removed that image the first time.

"Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, ON
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 11:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by MacNStein
Yeah, junk.
(except the GT, that is.)
You mean the Ford GT? Jeremy Clarkson would argue with you on that one, with his having been back to the dealer a half-dozen times in the 2 weeks since taking delivery. Hell of a car, though.
The Lord said 'Peter, I can see your house from here.'
     
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 11:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
Yup, the Canadian plant doesn't design them, they just build them the way Americans told them to.
Actually, it's not the design, it's the quality of integration and production. That's what makes Ford junk.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The bottom of Cloud City
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 12:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacNStein
Actually, it's not the design, it's the quality of integration and production. That's what makes Ford junk.
Blame Canada

"Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
     
Baninated
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois might be cold and flat, but at least it's ugly.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 12:01 PM
 


It was more cultural I think.
     
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 12:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by ReggieX
You mean the Ford GT? Jeremy Clarkson would argue with you on that one, with his having been back to the dealer a half-dozen times in the 2 weeks since taking delivery. Hell of a car, though.
I drove one and it gave me a stiffy. Only 3 cars have ever taken my breath away in a test drive.

`86 Lotus Esprit (ungodly handling)
`01 Lambo Diablo (brute power)
`05 Ford GT (both)


Not even my beloved M3, which still puts a silly grin on my face when I drive it, did that.


Edit: Oh yeah, I'm sure a Vanquish S would have the same effect as those 3, but I've yet to find an owner that will let anyone else drive their car.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 12:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
Blame Canada
no worse than all your anti-US threads.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The bottom of Cloud City
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 12:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacNStein
no worse than all your anti-US threads.
You don't see me in strong denial on blaming Canada now do you?

"Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 12:21 PM
 
If I drive SWG to the border, will any of you Yanks come and take him off our hands?
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The bottom of Cloud City
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 12:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap
If I drive SWG to the border, will any of you Yanks come and take him off our hands?
I know one that would love to have me live with them

"Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, ON
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2005, 12:27 PM
 
Mmm... Vanquish S... :drool:

But, man, would I love to take a Lotus Elise around a nice windy track.
( Last edited by ReggieX; Jul 6, 2005 at 12:33 PM. )
The Lord said 'Peter, I can see your house from here.'
     
 
Thread Tools
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:44 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2015 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2