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mitchell_pgh · Jul 13, 2005, 12:28 AM

QUESTION: Do you think someone like Apple could offer a podcasting service and make money doing it?

- I find it odd that they go out of their way to put "free" next to every single listing. Perhaps it is due to add some perceived value to iTunes, but I find it odd.

- I'm guessing Apple spent a considerable amount of money developing all of the podcasting services for the iPod. (updates to the iPod, update to iTunes, tracking podcasts, etc. etc.)

- Podcasting still doesn't have a clear revenue stream.

Note: I wasn't a major fan of the idea behind podcasting, but have grown to enjoying it. I originally thought I wouldn't like the "non-realtime" approach, but it really isn't bad at all, especially when you REALLY enjoy the subject and don't want to miss a part. Perhaps I'm just a sucker for "new" technologies.

Warung · Jul 13, 2005, 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

QUESTION: Do you think someone like Apple could offer a podcasting service and make money doing it?

- I find it odd that they go out of their way to put "free" next to every single listing. Perhaps it is due to add some perceived value to iTunes...

Yes, that's exactly what it is. It's like the "fat free apples" ads...

I think one of the major advantages of podcasting is, that it is free. The iTunes features are nice and the whole syncing idea is pretty neat, - but lets not kid ourselves. Podcasts are just a bunch of mp3s (very few other formats) that you can download and play on any medium of your choice.

As soon as Apple or anybody else would start charging for them, BitTorrent and other P2P services would be flooded with them.

Besides, most of the podcast authors are pretty much "amateurs" (in the "true" sense of the word) who want to get their stuff out there...

suvsr4terrorists · Jul 13, 2005, 02:13 AM

They already do. In order to enjoy podcasting, you need...drumroll.. an ipod. Sure, I suppose you could make do with your desktop, but that wouldn't be very ideal. Plus, it's free advertising. PODcasting. It's in the name itself.

Warung · Jul 13, 2005, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

They already do. In order to enjoy podcasting, you need...drumroll.. an ipod.

Actually you can play podcasts on any portable "mp3 player", though it might not be that "enjoyable".

It's just the management done through iTunes which requires an iPod.

Cubeoid · Jul 13, 2005, 02:32 AM

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=banish

Warung · Jul 13, 2005, 02:42 AM

Originally Posted by Cubeoid

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=banish

Awesome.

That's exactly how I feel about buzzwords too. It's especially bad here in Germany, since people who use them (primarily in a business context when using titels) think they are such hot sh1t.

starman · Jul 13, 2005, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by Warung

Actually you can play podcasts on any portable "mp3 player", though it might not be that "enjoyable".

It's just the management done through iTunes which requires an iPod.

Not exactly true. My podcast has MP3 and AAC streams, and only 3 people downloaded the MP3 version, HUNDREDS downloaded the AAC version. If you don't have an iPod, you can't play the AAC version.

Mike

Warung · Jul 13, 2005, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by starman

Not exactly true. My podcast has MP3 and AAC streams, and only 3 people downloaded the MP3 version, HUNDREDS downloaded the AAC version. If you don't have an iPod, you can't play the AAC version.

Oh boy, that's like saying cars don't run on diesel because 90% of the cars out there run on "regular" gas.

Like I said though, most of the podcatsts I've come across are mp3s.

starman · Jul 13, 2005, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by Warung

Oh boy, that's like saying cars don't run on diesel because 90% of the cars out there run on "regular" gas.

Like I said though, most of the podcatsts I've come across are mp3s.

No, it's not the same thing. I'm not saying that my podcast is any defacto standard of how to gauge podcasting in general, but considering that the audience is probably MOSTLY Windows users, you'd think that I'd have a higher MP3 download rate. I don't, which means that most people out there listening to mine are using at LEAST iTunes, and from the emails I get where people listen to it in the car, they have to be using iPods since I got more than 3 emails from people that do that.

Mike

mitchell_pgh · Jul 13, 2005, 08:11 AM

I don't think you would see them floating around on P2P as the real attraction to podcasting is:

- it's simple
- it's automatic
- it is up-to-date

P2P isn't known for being that up to date. Why would I want to download the Mac news from four days ago?

I was also thinking AAC using fairplay for the paid subscriptions.

starman · Jul 13, 2005, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

I don't think you would see them floating around on P2P as the real attraction to podcasting is:

- it's simple
- it's automatic
- it is up-to-date

P2P isn't known for being that up to date. Why would I want to download the Mac news from four days ago?

I was also thinking AAC using fairplay for the paid subscriptions.

There are some podcasts on P2P simply to lighten the bandwidth load.

Mike

Warung · Jul 13, 2005, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by starman

No, it's not the same thing. I'm not saying that my podcast is any defacto standard of how to gauge podcasting in general, but considering that the audience is probably MOSTLY Windows users, you'd think that I'd have a higher MP3 download rate. I don't, which means that most people out there listening to mine are using at LEAST iTunes, and from the emails I get where people listen to it in the car, they have to be using iPods since I got more than 3 emails from people that do that.

Maybe, but I just don't see how any of this contradicts what I have said. So what if most of your listeners have iPods?

The idea of a podcast is a self contained "audio" file, which is updated regularily and distributed over the internet. The "format" of that particular file is absolutely irrelevant and in no way "dependent" on the iPod or iTunes.

starman · Jul 13, 2005, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by Warung

Maybe, but I just don't see how any of this contradicts what I have said. So what if most of your listeners have iPods?

The idea of a podcast is a self contained "audio" file, which is updated regularily and distributed over the internet. The "format" of that particular file is absolutely irrelevant and in no way "dependent" on the iPod or iTunes.

But it IS dependent on whether or not the software/device people use DOES support the format I'm using, which was my point. It's like saying 8 years ago that MP3 was a stupid idea because Sony came out with Minidisc players and I should be using ATRAC.

You said:

"It's just the management done through iTunes which requires an iPod."

No, it's the file format also. MusicMatch and WMP don't play .m4b files. Sure, I could use MP3 exclusively, but why should I when I can offer live links, chapter stops, and changing artwork? I chose to use .m4b as my main file format because it gives the listener the most choices, and it's paying off. With 1 million podcast subscribers on iTunes the first week 4.9 was released, maybe I did the right thing. If I exclude the 4 people that are using iRivers, I can live with that if I get several thousand .m4b listeners.

And BTW - the AAC format is open, it's up to the manufacturers to support it.

"So what if most of your listeners have iPods?"

It makes a big push towards Apple's products that DO support the file format I chose to use.

Mike

Warung · Jul 13, 2005, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by starman

"It's just the management done through iTunes which requires an iPod."

I think you misread that. I was responding to the claim that an iPod is NECESSARY to listen to podcasts.

Originally Posted by starman

No, it's the file format also. MusicMatch and WMP don't play .m4b files.

Okay, name 25 important podcasts that aren't being offered as a mp3 download. Whether "exlusively" or not doesn't matter.

Warung · Jul 13, 2005, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

I don't think you would see them floating around on P2P as the real attraction to podcasting is:

- it's automatic

Like I said before, - that is one of the main attractions. But honestly, how many podcasts does the average listener subscribe to? 3 maybe 5?

You'd just check the RSS daily, go to the site, download and add the .mp3 to your player. Granted, not as easy and fun as iTunes, - but still very manageable, imo.

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

P2P isn't known for being that up to date.

Funny, - remind me again when Battlestar Galactica Season 2 gets here.

starman · Jul 13, 2005, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Warung

I think you misread that. I was responding to the claim that an iPod is NECESSARY to listen to podcasts.

Okay, name 25 important podcasts that aren't being offered as a mp3 download. Whether "exlusively" or not doesn't matter.

No, I didn't misread that. An iPod IS necessary if the audio file is using m4b.

Define "important". Just check the iTMS and anything listed as "Subscribe Only" is an m4b file.

Mike

Warung · Jul 13, 2005, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by starman

No, I didn't misread that. An iPod IS necessary if the audio file is using m4b.

Yes, if it's .m4b ONLY, - most DO include .mp3 though, or are .mp3 EXCLUSIVELY.

Originally Posted by starman

Define "important". Just check the iTMS and anything listed as "Subscribe Only" is an m4b file.

I will...I'm at a Windows box right now w/o iTunes installed...

Warung · Jul 13, 2005, 09:29 AM

double post

starman · Jul 13, 2005, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Warung

Yes, if it's .m4b ONLY, - most DO include .mp3 though, or are .mp3 EXCLUSIVELY.

Nobody's denying that, but you made a generalization that you didn't need an iPod to listen to Podcasts:

Actually you can play podcasts on any portable "mp3 player"

I was correcting you since people are starting to use AAC/.m4b files now.

That's all.

Remember, it's PODcasting, not IRIVERcasting.

Mike

Warung · Jul 13, 2005, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by starman

Nobody's denying that, but you made a generalization that you didn't need an iPod to listen to Podcasts

Okay, let rephrase that sh1t then - In order to listen to MOST Podcasts, you will neither need iTunes, nor an iPod.

Mmmmmmmmmmkay?

mitchell_pgh · Jul 13, 2005, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Warung

- it's automatic

Like I said before, - that is one of the main attractions. But honestly, how many podcasts does the average listener subscribe to? 3 maybe 5?

I think "it's automatic" is critical. There is no way I would download a podcast every morning for my trip to work. But if I can recharge the iPod the night before and have 3-4 shows updated in the morning... I'll do it.

FYI: I subscribe to about 5 (many are weekly and 1-2 are daily 4-5 minute ones)

Originally Posted by Warung

You'd just check the RSS daily, go to the site, download and add the .mp3 to your player. Granted, not as easy and fun as iTunes, - but still very manageable, imo.

I don't agree. If podcasting wants to become mainstream, they need to make it mindmumbingly easy. I'm not going to hunt podcasts down every morning. Even if it is 3 or 4 clicks away. I'm not going to wait for the download, move to my iPod, etc.

Call me lazy, but I would argue that many others wouldn't as well.

Originally Posted by Warung

Funny, - remind me again when Battlestar Galactica Season 2 gets here.

The major difference would be that Battlestar Galactica (or just about any show/movie) is sitting on a shelf for days/weeks/months before it is publically available. Podcasts are IMHO like newspapers. Many are time sensitive (for the most part).

P2P is great for many things, but organization and reliable distrobution of time sensitive information probably isn't one of them.

Warung · Jul 13, 2005, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

But if I can recharge the iPod the night before and have 3-4 shows updated in the morning... I'll do it.

That's a very good point, but then again, most aren't updated on a daily basis.

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

I'm not going to wait for the download, move to my iPod, etc.

Still better than paying for it, - imho.

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

The major difference would be that Battlestar Galactica (or just about any show/movie) is sitting on a shelf for days/weeks/months before it is publically available.

Nah, they're usually available about 3 or 4 hours after airing on TV.

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

P2P is great for many things, but organization and reliable distrobution of time sensitive information probably isn't one of them.

In general, you're right of course. And I certainly like the way Apple has implemented Podcasting into iTunes 4.9. But still, should Apple one day decide to charge for that "service" or make them iPod "playable" only, you'd see a lot of them distributed by different means.

starman · Jul 13, 2005, 10:41 AM

I don't think that'll ever happen. In fact, I'd bet the reason why my podcast got up in 4 days instead of several WEEKS like some people have been seeing is specifically because I'm using AAC, which gives you the whiz-bang features that MP3 doesn't and.....sells iPods.

Apple's doing this for market share. I don't see them ever charging for it.

Mike

Mastrap · Jul 13, 2005, 11:20 AM

Starman, your site is down?

starman · Jul 13, 2005, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Starman, your site is down?

Just checked it. It's fine.

Mike

mitchell_pgh · Jul 13, 2005, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Warung

In general, you're right of course. And I certainly like the way Apple has implemented Podcasting into iTunes 4.9. But still, should Apple one day decide to charge for that "service" or make them iPod "playable" only, you'd see a lot of them distributed by different means.

I don't think Apple will charge (well, they will) but rather the podcasts will want to charge so that they can make money. Even if it's only $1 for 3 months or something... I don't think Apple would like the "subscription" idea, but who knows...

Food for thought.

Mastrap · Jul 13, 2005, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Just checked it. It's fine.

Mike

When I click on the link to your home page in your moblog I get a message to contact godaddy?
Or where do you keep your podcast?

starman · Jul 13, 2005, 01:14 PM

Oh. Hmm... I clicked the homepage also but it worked for me. Are you getting the http://www.starman.cc URL? I recently let my other URL die.

The podcast is at http://www.worldofwarcast.com

Mike

turtle777 · Jul 13, 2005, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Warung

As soon as Apple or anybody else would start charging for them, BitTorrent and other P2P services would be flooded with them.

Well, with that argument, why is Apple still selling ANY music ?

-t

turtle777 · Jul 13, 2005, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Cubeoid

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=banish

Originally Posted by from above link

Blogging: If minds had anuses, blogging would be what your mind would do when it had to take a dump

Awesome. Gotta change my sig right now.

-t

Warung · Jul 13, 2005, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Well, with that argument, why is Apple still selling ANY music ?

Because "podcasts" are something completely different than "music"?

turtle777 · Jul 13, 2005, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Warung

Because "podcasts" are something completely different than "music"?

Duh, thanks for enlightening me, Mr. Obvious ! I would have never noticed !

Your (dumb) argument was that Apple couldn't charge money for podcasts because then people wouldn't buy it any more and pirate it from P2P. So HOW exactly would that NOT apply to music ?

-t

Warung · Jul 13, 2005, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

So HOW exactly would that NOT apply to music ?

*Duh*

Have you listened to any Podcasts yet? Paying 99 cents for a song by Metallica or Gorillaz isn't exactly the same as "buying" Joe Shmoe's weekly drivel of insignificant "facts".

Bottom line, if Apple should start charging for subscribing to Podcasts via iTunes most listeners would simply go the website and download them for FREE, distribute them via a P2P service like BitTorrent etc. or come up with some other format.

Whether the Podcasters themselves are going to ask for money in the future is a different subject, - but from what I have heard, most of them will remain free of charge.

Kapiert?

turtle777 · Jul 13, 2005, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Warung

Kapiert?

Dein Argument ist idiotisch. Wenn die podcast Provider etwas kostenlos anbieten wofuer Apple Geld verlangt, warum soll ich dann P2P Services wie BitTorrent bemuehen ?

Ach, auch wurscht.

-t

Warung · Jul 13, 2005, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Wenn die podcast Provider etwas kostenlos anbieten wofuer Apple Geld verlangt, warum soll ich dann P2P Services wie BitTorrent bemuehen ?

Bandwidth?

turtle777 · Jul 13, 2005, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Warung

Bandwidth?

Ende Argument

-t