[Lancer409]

1200 dollars for a RAZR?!? You could open up a cingular RAZR and have the phone and two years of service paid off for the price of this 1 CDMA phone alone. INSANE!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...%3AIT&rd=1

[Eug Wanker]

That's why GSM is where it's at.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

How much you want to bet some Asian guy in the US will buy it.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

How much you want to bet some Asian guy in the US will buy it.

$0, cuz all the Asian phone geek guys are on GSM and bought it last year.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

$0, cuz all the Asian phone geek guys are on GSM and bought it last year.

I'm sure there are a large fan base of CDMA cuz it has better range etc.

GSM does not have the monopoly. Here in Canada Bell and telus are still CDMA.

[Lancer409]

then canada is as behind as the states!

Eug .. hilarious!

and asians are into sony ericssons as well. i mean .. the razr was nice, big .. but nice .. considering what i've seen in the states. then i saw some sony ericssons and their feature set, and never looked back..

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Lancer409

then canada is as behind as the states!

Canada isn't near as good as Europe but in most telecommunication respects it is ahead of the US.

GSM covers most of Canada.

[Eug Wanker]

Yeah, Rogers GSM seems to have better coverage in Canada than Cingular or T-Mobile in the US. OTOH, Canada's populated areas represent much less of an area to cover than the populated areas of the US.

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

I'm sure there are a large fan base of CDMA cuz it has better range etc.

GSM does not have the monopoly. Here in Canada Bell and telus are still CDMA.

Maybe. In all seriousness though, I will note that a lot of the Asian guys are on GSM not just because of the coolness of the phones, but also because the phones work overseas.

I'm not a big fan of the Razr myself, but one of its draws is the quad band support.

I'm just wondering where the hell the Motorola iTunes phone is.

[ThinkInsane]

Would someone please explain to me what makes GSM so vastly superior to CDMA? Cuz everything I've read says that's just not true. Yes, there is a better selection of phones, but I've never read anything besides fan boy ravings that showed GSM is superior in anyway.

And $1200 for a phone is simply retarded. Anyone that pays that should be fed to the homeless.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

Would someone please explain to me what makes GSM so vastly superior to CDMA? Cuz everything I've read says that's just not true. Yes, there is a better selection of phones, but I've never read anything besides fan boy ravings that showed GSM is superior in anyway.

And $1200 for a phone is simply retarded. Anyone that pays that should be fed to the homeless.

Buy a phone, stick in your SIM card, and it Just Works™. I've had the same SIM card for the past 7 years, and despite having tried something like 6 different phones, I have never had to go to a phone shop to get my phone configured for the carrier.

It may be true that CDMA has some technology advantages that may be real, but it has other theoretical advantages that don't pan out in real-life usage. However, the lack of SIM card type of functionality is an irritant, and CDMA is only popular in North America. Everyone else in the world uses GSM (if we ignore 3G for the moment). Buy a CDMA phone, and it works only in North America. Buy a GSM world phone (unlocked), and you'll have coverage in most of the world.

Furthermore, you can use the same phone with multiple carriers. Buy a world phone for T-Mobile in the US, and you can get pre-paid SIM cards for use in Italy for use in the same phone, to avoid roaming charges with your US carrier.

Thus, the real money for the manufacturers is in GSM. CDMA is the poor cousin that gets the handmedowns of GSM phone technology these days.

Basically, if you want a nice cutting edge phone, or you travel overseas, you want GSM. If you want a phone that just does the job and you don't need it when you travel, then CDMA is fine.

BTW, the GSM version of the Razr (unlocked) costs $299. And it's even cheaper if you get it through Cingular.

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

Would someone please explain to me what makes GSM so vastly superior to CDMA? Cuz everything I've read says that's just not true. Yes, there is a better selection of phones, but I've never read anything besides fan boy ravings that showed GSM is superior in anyway.

And $1200 for a phone is simply retarded. Anyone that pays that should be fed to the homeless.

The rest of the world uses GSM, that's why.

[TETENAL]

What about UMTS? Some use that.

Will it come to northern America?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

Cuz everything I've read says that's just not true.

Sources, please ? And please no FUDaganda !

-t

[Sarc]

what are the theoretical advantages of CDMA over GSM ?

[ThinkInsane]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Buy a phone, stick in your SIM card, and it Just Works™. I've had the same SIM card for the past 7 years, and despite having tried something like 6 different phones, I have never had to go to a phone shop to get my phone configured for the carrier.

It may be true that CDMA has some technology advantages that may be real, but it has other theoretical advantages that don't pan out in real-life usage. However, the lack of SIM card type of functionality is an irritant, and CDMA is only popular in North America. Everyone else in the world uses GSM (if we ignore 3G for the moment). Buy a CDMA phone, and it works only in North America. Buy a GSM world phone (unlocked), and you'll have coverage in most of the world.

Furthermore, you can use the same phone with multiple carriers. Buy a world phone for T-Mobile in the US, and you can get pre-paid SIM cards for use in Italy for use in the same phone, to avoid roaming charges with your US carrier.

Thus, the real money for the manufacturers is in GSM. CDMA is the poor cousin that gets the handmedowns of GSM phone technology these days.

Basically, if you want a nice cutting edge phone, or you travel overseas, you want GSM. If you want a phone that just does the job and you don't need it when you travel, then CDMA is fine.

BTW, the GSM version of the Razr (unlocked) costs $299. And it's even cheaper if you get it through Cingular.

So it's not so much technical superiority that makes GSM such an advantage, it's the convenience of being able to use the phone world-wide and the SIM card. That's understandable.

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

The rest of the world uses GSM, that's why.

THe rest of the world uses Windows also, that certainly doesn't make it better...

Originally Posted by turtle777

Sources, please ? And please no FUDaganda !

-t

Don't have any. I'm not that big of a phone geek that I keep track of every article I happen to read. I also don't have any agenda, FUD or otherwise. It was an honest question about what makes GSM superior to CDMA. I asked because I have read that GSM is not technically superior to CDMA, so I was asking why CDMA is thought of as a joke compared to GSM (you know, like how Apple is considered a joke by Windows goons?).

I have a CDMA phone because that's the network Verizon has, and I've been a Verizon customer for a long time. I've stayed with them because I always get a signal, and they have always had great customer service. Unfortunately, there selection of phones is weak at best, but my phone is a phone first and foremost, so I sacrifice features to make sure I get a signal.

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

THe rest of the world uses Windows also, that certainly doesn't make it better...

I never said it was better... I wouldn't even know since I have never used another system than GSM personally.

[ThinkInsane]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

I never said it was better... I wouldn't even know since I have never used another system than GSM personally.

But that was the question I was asking, what makes it better? Your answer was “because the rest of the world uses it", thus my comparison to mac/windows. Sorry about the confusion.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

So it's not so much technical superiority that makes GSM such an advantage, it's the convenience of being able to use the phone world-wide and the SIM card. That's understandable.

That and the fact that you can easily sell the phone when you buy a new one. Much more incentive to upgrade. Perfect for geeks.

THe rest of the world uses Windows also, that certainly doesn't make it better...

Well, it has been traditionally "better" for corporate usage, but that doesn't translate into "better" for a consumer OS.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

Would someone please explain to me what makes GSM so vastly superior to CDMA? Cuz everything I've read says that's just not true. Yes, there is a better selection of phones, but I've never read anything besides fan boy ravings that showed GSM is superior in anyway.

And $1200 for a phone is simply retarded. Anyone that pays that should be fed to the homeless.

The battery life is better on GSM, that's really about it for the end user.

[vinster]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

Would someone please explain to me what makes GSM so vastly superior to CDMA?

Market share. That's it! It's a good technology and most of the world uses it.

I think the only reason people like CDMA here in the states is because of the wide coverage.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

What about UMTS? Some use that.

3G UTMS isn't that common yet. Interestingly though, you can get UTMS and GSM support in the same phone right now:



They even sell them locally here in Toronto, and UTMS doesn't even exist here. And it costs about a third of that CDMA-only Razr.

Will it come to northern America?

Yes. UTMS/WCDMA will likely replace GSM in North America... in time.
CDMA2000 will likely replace CDMA in North America... in time.

We North Americans are slow to get this stuff.

[TheMosco]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

The battery life is better on GSM, that's really about it for the end user.

I love the battery life of GSM. I had a LG verizon phone that had to be practically every day. my GSM lasts a couple days with even heavy talking. GSM is great. its too bad it doesn't have someone like verizon to pump money into it.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Sarc

what are the theoretical advantages of CDMA over GSM ?

First, let me explain that CDMA is a technology, not a standard. The standards commonly referred to as "CDMA" actually have specific names (IS-95 and IS-2000 for those who care). Meanwhile, GSM and the now-dying "TDMA" standard (which like CDMA is used as a common name for an actual standard, IS-136) use an older technology called TDMA.

So, the advantages of CDMA technology:

1. It uses the radio spectrum more efficiently
2. Multipath reception (which harms signal strength on every other system) actually improves CDMA reception
3. When a call is handed off from one cell site to another, CDMA connects to the second site before breaking the connection from the first, unlike the other systemo. This reduces dropped calls during handoff.

I must note that most of the deficiencies of CDMA right now are really deficiencies in the handsets. And they suck not because the CDMA technology makes it harder, but because it makes little economic sense for the handset makers to invest as much money in technology used only in a few markets. All the real development funding goes to GSM/UMTS.

In fact, UMTS and the proprietary 3G systems in Japan use CDMA technology. It will eventually displace the TDMA technology used by GSM.

tooki

[Lancer409]

thanks for the tech tip tooki. i dont know how you know so much but yeah ... trippy.

that being said, i have a question about gsm and quadband phones. here in the bay area, cingular has stronger reception than t mobile. supposedly there are deadspots for t mobile. i believe cingular uses 850, and a little bit of 1900? while tmobile uses purely 1900.

if a triband phone doesnt have 850, but a quadband has it, will the handset jump from tmobile's towers or in the case it is in a deadspot, jump from nothing ... onto cingular's 850 towers?

tmobile has free roaming, i was wondering if the handsets, or if tmobile, restrict the use of cingular's vast network. =/ thanks.

[Master Ken]

I'v bought a CDMA 3G phone 2 years ago, and although its fast as hell, downloading video content and other garbage, the phone those days where a POS.

The service is great, but MOTOROLA, NEC and TOSHIBA phones are garbage. U could basically build a house with one.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

I'm sure there are a large fan base of CDMA cuz it has better range etc.

GSM does not have the monopoly. Here in Canada Bell and telus are still CDMA.

The ONLY thing I dont like about CDMA is that you don't have sim cards. The phone itself is the service ID not a chip you can exchange out. Otherwise CDMA has more range, better quality and more advance features. CDMA is slowly making its way into Europe it could one day be more popular. The biggest hold back is most of the world makes GSM phones so selection for CDMA sucks.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Buy a phone, stick in your SIM card, and it Just Works™. I've had the same SIM card for the past 7 years, and despite having tried something like 6 different phones, I have never had to go to a phone shop to get my phone configured for the carrier.

It may be true that CDMA has some technology advantages that may be real, but it has other theoretical advantages that don't pan out in real-life usage. However, the lack of SIM card type of functionality is an irritant, and CDMA is only popular in North America. Everyone else in the world uses GSM (if we ignore 3G for the moment). Buy a CDMA phone, and it works only in North America. Buy a GSM world phone (unlocked), and you'll have coverage in most of the world.

Furthermore, you can use the same phone with multiple carriers. Buy a world phone for T-Mobile in the US, and you can get pre-paid SIM cards for use in Italy for use in the same phone, to avoid roaming charges with your US carrier.

Thus, the real money for the manufacturers is in GSM. CDMA is the poor cousin that gets the handmedowns of GSM phone technology these days.

Basically, if you want a nice cutting edge phone, or you travel overseas, you want GSM. If you want a phone that just does the job and you don't need it when you travel, then CDMA is fine.

BTW, the GSM version of the Razr (unlocked) costs $299. And it's even cheaper if you get it through Cingular.

SIM cards dont make GSM or CDMA, CDMA can just as easly use SIM cards but the telephone companies dont want that. GSM is the world standard because its cheaper to setup and operate.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

The battery life is better on GSM, that's really about it for the end user.

I disagree, my old Telus Samsung phone had incredable battery life, way more then my newer more expensive GSM Sony phone. I found the signal strength and quality to be the big points that are different between the 2, Ive owned 2 CDMA phones and 4 GSM phones. Ive been on the Telus Network (CDMA) and Fido and Rogers Networks (GSM) Both Fido and Rogers dont even compare in quality or strength to the Telus CDMA network. But FIDO and Rogers had a better selection and I love being able to switch phones via a sim card. And Telus is the most expensive of the bunch. I do find CDMA phone companies are the most expensive while GSM companies are less.

[His Dudeness]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Buy a phone, stick in your SIM card, and it Just Works™. I've had the same SIM card for the past 7 years, and despite having tried something like 6 different phones, I have never had to go to a phone shop to get my phone configured for the carrier.

It may be true that CDMA has some technology advantages that may be real, but it has other theoretical advantages that don't pan out in real-life usage. However, the lack of SIM card type of functionality is an irritant, and CDMA is only popular in North America. Everyone else in the world uses GSM (if we ignore 3G for the moment). Buy a CDMA phone, and it works only in North America. Buy a GSM world phone (unlocked), and you'll have coverage in most of the world.

Furthermore, you can use the same phone with multiple carriers. Buy a world phone for T-Mobile in the US, and you can get pre-paid SIM cards for use in Italy for use in the same phone, to avoid roaming charges with your US carrier.

Thus, the real money for the manufacturers is in GSM. CDMA is the poor cousin that gets the handmedowns of GSM phone technology these days.

Basically, if you want a nice cutting edge phone, or you travel overseas, you want GSM. If you want a phone that just does the job and you don't need it when you travel, then CDMA is fine.

BTW, the GSM version of the Razr (unlocked) costs $299. And it's even cheaper if you get it through Cingular.

Very true! We had to replace a Cingular GSM phone and took the SIM card out of the old broken one and put it in the new SonyEricsson T637 and it Just Worked. No visit to the store and standing in line.

Plus, if you're Navy, like me, GSM phones work overseas in places like Jebel Ali, Bahrain, Naples, et al.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Athens

I disagree, my old Telus Samsung phone had incredable battery life, way more then my newer more expensive GSM Sony phone. I found the signal strength and quality to be the big points that are different between the 2, Ive owned 2 CDMA phones and 4 GSM phones. Ive been on the Telus Network (CDMA) and Fido and Rogers Networks (GSM) Both Fido and Rogers dont even compare in quality or strength to the Telus CDMA network. But FIDO and Rogers had a better selection and I love being able to switch phones via a sim card. And Telus is the most expensive of the bunch. I do find CDMA phone companies are the most expensive while GSM companies are less.

It may just be the area you're in and the carrier implementation. I was on clearNET CDMA for a while, and the reception sucked @ss. Telus replaced clearNET and improved it, but IMO, GSM in Europe is way superior to both GSM and CDMA in Canada.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Athens

SIM cards dont make GSM or CDMA, CDMA can just as easly use SIM cards but the telephone companies dont want that. GSM is the world standard because its cheaper to setup and operate.

Yep. Nonetheless, it's a reason why to avoid CDMA if you want the latest and greatest.

Originally Posted by tooki

I must note that most of the deficiencies of CDMA right now are really deficiencies in the handsets. And they suck not because the CDMA technology makes it harder, but because it makes little economic sense for the handset makers to invest as much money in technology used only in a few markets. All the real development funding goes to GSM/UMTS.

In fact, UMTS and the proprietary 3G systems in Japan use CDMA technology. It will eventually displace the TDMA technology used by GSM.

CDMA technology in 3G systems isn't the same thing as North American CDMA technology now as you probably know. Furthermore, WCDMA/UTMS was developed independently from other technologies bearing the "CDMA" moniker AFAIK.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Athens

SIM cards dont make GSM or CDMA, CDMA can just as easly use SIM cards but the telephone companies dont want that.

Why don't they want them? SIM cards are very handy. All the phone companies in Germany have them (some don't even have phones; they just give you a SIM card).

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

And $1200 for a phone is simply retarded. Anyone that pays that should be fed to the homeless.

I would say the same thing about anyone paying more than $500 for a phone.

[Amorya]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

I would say the same thing about anyone paying more than $500 for a phone.

That price had better be pay-as-you-go!

If it's for a contract, it's insane to pay any money for a phone. My Nokia 6680 cost me £-50. They paid me £50 in cash to sign up to the contract, which was cheaper than my old contract anyhow, and the phone was free.

Amorya

[rambo47]

[QUOTE=Eug Wanker]3G UTMS isn't that common yet. Interestingly though, you can get UTMS and GSM support in the same phone right now:

[QUOTE]

I've got that phone! What an awesome piece of kit. My Treo 650 wasn't stable enough (until the latest firmware update - that helped a ton!) so I got the SE V800 as a second/backup/weekend phone. I'm on T-Mobile but the Vodaphone branding really doesn't bother me. I have it in white so it looks kinda like an iPod.

[mitchell_pgh]

No phone is worth 1200 IMHO. Too much of a liability.

Worst investment in the world. But I guess if you have money to burn.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

I would say the same thing about anyone paying more than $500 for a phone.

I agree. I spent $149 for my phone, but I own it. I always seem to get 1-2 years out of my phones... so it's about as much as JUST the insurance and useless extras they always try to add on.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

CDMA technology in 3G systems isn't the same thing as North American CDMA technology now as you probably know. Furthermore, WCDMA/UTMS was developed independently from other technologies bearing the "CDMA" moniker AFAIK.

Don't confuse an implementation with the technology. CDMA is a technology. CDMA2000 is one implementation. UMTS is an entirely different one. But both are indisputably CDMA -- they both use code division multiple access to multiplex, to the exclusion of all other multiplexing schemes.

tooki

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by tooki

Don't confuse an implementation with the technology. CDMA is a technology. CDMA2000 is one implementation. UMTS is an entirely different one. But both are indisputably CDMA -- they both use code division multiple access to multiplex, to the exclusion of all other multiplexing schemes.

Perhaps, but that's like saying that many types of computers use RISC-like CPUs to make calculations. It doesn't really help you very much in understanding the various hardware platforms.

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

I agree. I spent $149 for my phone, but I own it. I always seem to get 1-2 years out of my phones... so it's about as much as JUST the insurance and useless extras they always try to add on.

I bought a GSM phone for $450... and then sold it for $250. OK, so spent more than $150 in the end, but I also had the latest and greatest phone.

[nonhuman]

The rest of the world doesn't use GSM exclusively. China uses both GSM and CDMA, but CDMA is the newer tech there and people are moving to it. CDMA phones in China use SIM cards as well, if I recall correctly.

[vinster]

Originally Posted by Athens

GSM is the world standard because its cheaper to setup and operate.

I think you got this one backwards.

GSM is cheaper to set up and operate because it is has the widest use worldwide (GSM is a technology not a standard).

[Drakino]

I really wish GSM was the standard here in the US like it is in Europe. During my vacation last year, I found a spot where my SE T610 saw 9 different carriers it was willing to use with the prepaid SIM I bought.

The only time I didn't have phone service was when I was in the middle of the ocean on a ferry between England and the Netherlands. About 30 minutes before we arrived, the sounds of incoming SMS messages could be heard from many phones, usually welcoming you to NL.

[JoshuaZ]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

3G UTMS isn't that common yet. Interestingly though, you can get UTMS and GSM support in the same phone right now:



They even sell them locally here in Toronto, and UTMS doesn't even exist here. And it costs about a third of that CDMA-only Razr.


Yes. UTMS/WCDMA will likely replace GSM in North America... in time.
CDMA2000 will likely replace CDMA in North America... in time.

We North Americans are slow to get this stuff.

Man, I am sooo buying that phone in two weeks when I get to Japan. Its one of the few bluetooth phones offered by the major cell phone companies in Japan. Plus I just love how my college friends used BT with their Macs and their cell phone.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by nonhuman

The rest of the world doesn't use GSM exclusively. China uses both GSM and CDMA, but CDMA is the newer tech there and people are moving to it. CDMA phones in China use SIM cards as well, if I recall correctly.

CDMA doesn't have much penetration (yet) in China. It is unlikely CDMA will ever dominate there either. If you want coverage in the most places in China, you go with GSM.

You can however get a dual-mode GSM/CDMA handset for use in China.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

CDMA doesn't have much penetration (yet) in China. It is unlikely CDMA will ever dominate there either. If you want coverage in the most places in China, you go with GSM.

You can however get a dual-mode GSM/CDMA handset for use in China.

Perhaps, but in Shanghai at least it's being advertised as the newer, better technology and people are using it.

[Link]

I'd rather pay 1200 bucks than use a sony crappinson phone.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by nonhuman

Perhaps, but in Shanghai at least it's being advertised as the newer, better technology and people are using it.

Yeah, some are using it (Unicom). However, the newer, better technology in China is 3G. China is pushing hard for 3G.

It's too bad we North Americans are going to have to wait a very long time for significant 3G penetration.

[bstone]

I just went to W Virginia on vacation. I was sane enough to fire Cingular and get US Cellular, which uses CDMA. All my friends with GSM phones had zero service while I had plenty.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by vinster

I think you got this one backwards.

GSM is cheaper to set up and operate because it is has the widest use worldwide (GSM is a technology not a standard).

which is why it became the world standard. It was out first, had more support and today has much more support, competition and demand which makes it cheaper. CDMA is slowing catching up though.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Yeah, some are using it (Unicom). However, the newer, better technology in China is 3G. China is pushing hard for 3G.

It's too bad we North Americans are going to have to wait a very long time for significant 3G penetration.

Ah. When I was last there it was CDMA that they were pushing. I don't remember seeing anything about 3G. (And this was only a year ago.)