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tavilach · Jul 16, 2005, 03:31 PM

I've been thinking about buying a Shuttle XPC barebones system for my dorm room, as it never hurts to have a PC around. I currently own a Dell tower, and I would transfer over the components of the tower into the Shuttle. Of course, if I did this, I would want to remove all traces of Dell, such as the "Dell 8250" text upon startup, the startup logo, etc. Is this possible?

ghporter · Jul 16, 2005, 04:51 PM

That startup stuff is in the Dell BIOS. Shuttle's proprietary microboards have their own BIOS, which will NOT say anything about Dell. Your hard drive is safe.

JoshuaZ · Jul 16, 2005, 04:56 PM

Dude, you so got a Dell!

Mediaman_12 · Jul 16, 2005, 06:12 PM

One note of caution, Windows doesn't like being shoved about.
The HD that boots your Dell, more than likely wont even begin to start up the Shuttle.
A reinstall (along with all the apps) is definitely on the cards.

Unlike the Mac OS where usually if an install will boot in on one Mac, you can pull the HD, stick it in a completely different Mac, where it will still boot it.

RAILhead · Jul 16, 2005, 07:12 PM

What OS is it running?

Maury

olePigeon · Jul 16, 2005, 07:16 PM

You're going to have to reinstall Windows or you'll get a "Protection Fault."

That's why we have 20 different images for each god damn PC and configuration at work because Windows doesn't know how to work on everything.

Sigh, I miss managing Macs.

tavilach · Jul 16, 2005, 08:20 PM

A reinstall wouldn't be a problem, but thanks for the heads up

. I'm running XP Pro.

Link · Jul 16, 2005, 08:37 PM

Also keep in mind because your dell came with an OEM version of windows, it won't be transferrable over the new motherboard.

tavilach · Jul 16, 2005, 08:40 PM

That's not true, Link. I've installed this version of Windows on an HP computer. Granted, it still says "Dell Solution Center" on the Start Menu, but I believe that's an easy fix.

...but correct me if I'm wrong. I don't have the money for another copy of XP.

Link · Jul 16, 2005, 08:42 PM

Hrm guess I'm wrong

http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windows/.../howtouse.mspx

http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/moving_xp.html

I think it only applies to machines that were factory installed after February 2005

tavilach · Jul 16, 2005, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by Link

Hrm guess I'm wrong

http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windows/.../howtouse.mspx

http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/moving_xp.html

I think it only applies to machines that were factory installed after February 2005

Sweetaroni!

If anyone reading this thread has ever installed a Dell OEM version of XP on a non-Dell computer, and removed all traces of Dell-ness, could you tell me what to remove? Or, if someone just happens to know...

Edit: Crap...even though I can do it, is it illegal to transfer XP over to the Shuttle? It's really the same computer with a different motherboard, fan, and power supply. Sure, the motherboard defines the computer, but still...

ghporter · Jul 16, 2005, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by Link

Also keep in mind because your dell came with an OEM version of windows, it won't be transferrable over the new motherboard.

A lot of Dell OS distribution discs are built to find specific data in the Dell BIOS, and will NOT load on a non-Dell computer. It's neat to go to a computer show and see tables covered with "Windows XP Pro" for $150+ and a couple labeled "For Dell Only" priced at $25. Since I have a Dell, I've thought about getting one just to have an extra copy...

Of course a lot of colleges have a deal with Microsoft on distributing MS products. I can get a copy of XP Pro for less than $10 at school. (I think Office 2003 for Mac costs about $20.)

tavilach · Jul 16, 2005, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

A lot of Dell OS distribution discs are built to find specific data in the Dell BIOS, and will NOT load on a non-Dell computer. It's neat to go to a computer show and see tables covered with "Windows XP Pro" for $150+ and a couple labeled "For Dell Only" priced at $25. Since I have a Dell, I've thought about getting one just to have an extra copy...

Of course a lot of colleges have a deal with Microsoft on distributing MS products. I can get a copy of XP Pro for less than $10 at school. (I think Office 2003 for Mac costs about $20.)

As I said, it installed fine on an HP computer, so I guess this CD isn't "tainted."

...and boo. Cal sells XP Pro for $99. It's a discount, but that ain't cheap.

Link · Jul 16, 2005, 08:58 PM

Don't worry, tis' perfectly moral (and probably legal) to use a copy of Windows that was intended for a dell on the same machine in a different box.. Technically you're breaking the license agreement, but it's about as useful as manure anyway.

ghporter · Jul 16, 2005, 08:59 PM

What Link said. Scrape the license tag off the Dell and paste/tape it on the Shuttle box (if it will come off in the first place), and even the lawyers will be fine about it.

tavilach · Jul 16, 2005, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Link

Don't worry, tis' perfectly moral (and probably legal) to use a copy of Windows that was intended for a dell on the same machine in a different box.. Technically you're breaking the license agreement, but it's about as useful as manure anyway.

If I'm ever questioned about it, which I never will be, I guess I could just play stupid

. What would they do, fine me $200?

Originally Posted by ghporter

What Link said. Scrape the license tag off the Dell and paste/tape it on the Shuttle box (if it will come off in the first place), and even the lawyers will be fine about it.

Good call, good call. Of course, I'd then want to leave the remnants of Dell on the installation. It's not as if the word "Dell" will kill me, though. Thanks for the tip

.

Link · Jul 16, 2005, 09:30 PM

Shoot you could grab nlite and take em out, IE too

tavilach · Jul 17, 2005, 01:38 AM

Crap. I just realized that I am using RDRAM, which is not compatible with the Shuttles. New motherboard, new RAM, new fan, new power supply, new case...I'm beginning to think that I should just forget about this upgrade. Then agan, I could sell the RDRAM for more than the new DDR RAM would cost. Of course, that takes time...

goMac · Jul 17, 2005, 01:40 AM

Be aware that installing from a Dell cd will install Dell crap with it, including the Dell Support stuff.

tavilach · 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

Be aware that installing from a Dell cd will install Dell crap with it, including the Dell Support stuff.

I know that.

Anyway, another question:

If I were to take only the hard drive, graphics card, and processor out of my Dell, leaving the memory and everything else (CD-RW drive, DVD-ROM drive, zip drive, case, fan, power supply, 512MB of RDRAM, copy of Windows), how much could I make by selling it? As long as my net loss is $200 or less, it might be worth it. I would have to buy a Windows XP upgrade on eBay for about $50 (to upgrade Windows 98 that I have laying around), 512MB of DDR memory, a combination CD-RW/DVD-ROM drive, and the Shuttle XPC barebones system.

The Shuttle is about $200 itself, so if I could make about $100 off the stripped-down Dell, I'd be set...and I'd also have no more traces of Dell, I assume (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Athens · Jul 17, 2005, 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mediaman_12

One note of caution, Windows doesn't like being shoved about.
The HD that boots your Dell, more than likely wont even begin to start up the Shuttle.
A reinstall (along with all the apps) is definitely on the cards.

Unlike the Mac OS where usually if an install will boot in on one Mac, you can pull the HD, stick it in a completely different Mac, where it will still boot it.

Not totally true, true it will blue screen with the new motherboard, you can reinstall windows on top of windows leaving the registery and installed programs intact so you dont have to reinstall everything.

Athens · Jul 17, 2005, 02:07 AM

Originally Posted by Link

Also keep in mind because your dell came with an OEM version of windows, it won't be transferrable over the new motherboard.

if you ever read the license agreement , you aren’t technically allowed to transfer Windows XP Retail from one machine to another. Note the OEM version of windows is transferable and totally the same as the retail version. The only exceptions to this is when a manufacturer locks the copy to only install on there hardware.

What can be done, is you can extract the product key from your dell, borrow a friends windows XP Pro CD (same service pack) and then install a fresh copy with out the dell crap while using your Product key, when you go to reactivate it just say your old motherboard died and you want to reactivate windows on a new motherboard, so far at least with Microsoft Canada I havent had any problems with them not letting me.

tavilach · Jul 17, 2005, 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by Athens

if you ever read the license agreement , you aren’t technically allowed to transfer Windows XP Retail from one machine to another. Note the OEM version of windows is transferable and totally the same as the retail version. The only exceptions to this is when a manufacturer locks the copy to only install on there hardware.

What can be done, is you can extract the product key from your dell, borrow a friends windows XP Pro CD (same service pack) and then install a fresh copy with out the dell crap while using your Product key, when you go to reactivate it just say your old motherboard died and you want to reactivate windows on a new motherboard, so far at least with Microsoft Canada I havent had any problems with them not letting me.

Sweet! If that works, then my only problem is the memory. Perhaps I can pull this off for only a $100 net loss!

Shuttle Barebones: $200
Crucial Memory: $60
Dell Barebones: -$50 (at the least)
Dell Memory: -$50 (at the least)

Please correct me if I'm wrong! I'm getting excited!

goMac · Jul 17, 2005, 02:13 AM

You're not going to be able to activate a Dell copy of Windows on a custom built machine. I've tried. The OEM version is smart and it won't activate.

tavilach · Jul 17, 2005, 02:14 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

You're not going to be able to activate a Dell copy of Windows on a custom built machine. I've tried. The OEM version is smart and it won't activate.

As I said before, I installed it on an HP. Did you buy your OEM copy after 2/05?

goMac · Jul 17, 2005, 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by tavilach

As I said before, I installed it on an HP. Did you buy your OEM copy after 2/05?

No, before. I didn't mean install, I meant activate. I tried to activate in December last year. Computer rejected the code. I tried to do it over the phone (which is automated now), was rejected. Called up support (India), they sent me to the "activation department" which ended up being the automated line again.

tavilach · Jul 17, 2005, 02:33 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

No, before. I didn't mean install, I meant activate. I tried to activate in December last year. Computer rejected the code. I tried to do it over the phone (which is automated now), was rejected. Called up support (India), they sent me to the "activation department" which ended up being the automated line again.

I don't remember the activation process, but XP was certainly used on the machine for more than a month. Then the HP computer died (my mom said she couldn't turn it on)...and I assume it didn't die because Windows wasn't activated properly...

Athens · Jul 17, 2005, 03:29 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

No, before. I didn't mean install, I meant activate. I tried to activate in December last year. Computer rejected the code. I tried to do it over the phone (which is automated now), was rejected. Called up support (India), they sent me to the "activation department" which ended up being the automated line again.

You have to get a real person and explain to them that its a new board so they will allow it to activate, all windows versions when activated, Pro / Home OEM or Retail wont activate again on a machine that is more then 10% different from the orginal activation.

Athens · Jul 17, 2005, 03:31 AM

Originally Posted by tavilach

I don't remember the activation process, but XP was certainly used on the machine for more than a month. Then the HP computer died (my mom said she couldn't turn it on)...and I assume it didn't die because Windows wasn't activated properly...

A non activated Windows dosent kill the machine, when you boot it up instead of being at the login screen it says this machine must be activated and provides you with the number to call for phone help, and a button to activate it.

goMac · Jul 17, 2005, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Athens

You have to get a real person and explain to them that its a new board so they will allow it to activate, all windows versions when activated, Pro / Home OEM or Retail wont activate again on a machine that is more then 10% different from the orginal activation.

I couldn't get a hold of a real person to do it, so finally I loaded on a "special copy" of Windows XP. (To be fair, I did move my actual Dell over to Linux and wiped Windows off of it).

ghporter · Jul 17, 2005, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Athens

You have to get a real person and explain to them that its a new board so they will allow it to activate, all windows versions when activated, Pro / Home OEM or Retail wont activate again on a machine that is more then 10% different from the orginal activation.

It's a little more complex than "10%," but that's a good ballpark figure to work with. The activation system ("Using Your Resources to Cover Bill's Wallet!®") checks unique identifiers on just about every piece of hardware in the computer that has an identifier. Changing some things has less "weight" than others-chaning the motherboard per se won't necessarily trigger reactivation, but if that motherboard has more than a few basic features, like a USB master hub AND onboard sound (even if you don't use it) that can tip the balance. Changing one drive (of any kind) shouldn't trigger reactivation, but changing both the hard drive and an optical drive probably will.

Athens · Jul 18, 2005, 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

It's a little more complex than "10%," but that's a good ballpark figure to work with. The activation system ("Using Your Resources to Cover Bill's Wallet!®") checks unique identifiers on just about every piece of hardware in the computer that has an identifier. Changing some things has less "weight" than others-chaning the motherboard per se won't necessarily trigger reactivation, but if that motherboard has more than a few basic features, like a USB master hub AND onboard sound (even if you don't use it) that can tip the balance. Changing one drive (of any kind) shouldn't trigger reactivation, but changing both the hard drive and an optical drive probably will.

Changing Chipsets will cause it to need activation every time. It looks at several key things on a motherboard, the north bridge, south bridge, sound chip, bios version and bios brand, the memory controller chip, AGP and CPU. U can get away with say 2 intel boards from different makers most of the time with out needed to reactivate, and some times with out reinstalling.

tavilach · Jul 31, 2005, 11:54 AM

Before I buy the Shuttle, I need to be sure that Microsoft would let me activate Windows. How can I be sure of this? Can I call them and explain that I have a new motherboard? I'm assuming that I need to wait until I actually buy the Shuttle. Any tips?

goMac · Jul 31, 2005, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by tavilach

Before I buy the Shuttle, I need to be sure that Microsoft would let me activate Windows. How can I be sure of this? Can I call them and explain that I have a new motherboard? I'm assuming that I need to wait until I actually buy the Shuttle. Any tips?

I would call, but as I said before, I was unable to get a live human. Otherwise, consider Linux unless the machine is for games.

jasonsRX7 · Jul 31, 2005, 12:11 PM

You should read this first, then.

http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/partners/YourPC_do.mspx

I don't give a crap what you do with Windows, but if you're worried about keeping it legal...

tavilach · Jul 31, 2005, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

You should read this first, then.

http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/partners/YourPC_do.mspx

I don't give a crap what you do with Windows, but if you're worried about keeping it legal...

Except the Shuttle XPC is my Dell PC: The same processor, HD, and graphics card. It's just a new motherboard, fan, case, and memory.

goMac · Jul 31, 2005, 12:18 PM

"Don't transfer OEM software from one computer system to another.
OEM software licenses can not be transferred from one computer system to another, even if the computer system on which it was originally installed is no longer in use."

In other words, they're not going to let you transfer an OEM license.

Maybe try to use another OEM license, or find a "special" copy of Windows, or use something like Fedora Linux?

jasonsRX7 · Jul 31, 2005, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by tavilach

Except the Shuttle XPC is my Dell PC: The same processor, HD, and graphics card. It's just a new motherboard, fan, case, and memory.

Well that's pushing it, but good luck. I think you know what MS is getting at, though.

tavilach · Jul 31, 2005, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

"Don't transfer OEM software from one computer system to another.
OEM software licenses can not be transferred from one computer system to another, even if the computer system on which it was originally installed is no longer in use."

In other words, they're not going to let you transfer an OEM license.

Maybe try to use another OEM license, or find a "special" copy of Windows, or use something like Fedora Linux?

Read my above comment. My machine is more than 10% different, but if I speak to a live person, as Athens suggests, and claim that I have a new motherboard, wouldn't they activate it?

By the way, I can't use Linux: This is a web testing machine. I need all the popular PC browsers, as well as Studio MX.

goMac · Jul 31, 2005, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by tavilach

Except the Shuttle XPC is my Dell PC: The same processor, HD, and graphics card. It's just a new motherboard, fan, case, and memory.

If it's a new motherboard, than it's really not your Dell PC at all.

The motherboard really is the computer.

tavilach · Jul 31, 2005, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

If it's a new motherboard, than it's really not your Dell PC at all.

The motherboard really is the computer.

Yeah, but it's not so black and white. If Athens did it, why can't I?

goMac · Jul 31, 2005, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by tavilach

Yeah, but it's not so black and white. If Athens did it, why can't I?

Because:

a) He lives in Canada.
b) Bill wants more money.

tavilach · Jul 31, 2005, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Athens

You have to get a real person and explain to them that its a new board so they will allow it to activate, all windows versions when activated, Pro / Home OEM or Retail wont activate again on a machine that is more then 10% different from the orginal activation.

So, who exactly do I contact? Microsoft requires that you enter in a product key before giving you a phone number, but when I enter my product key, it says I need to contact Dell. Of course, I doubt Dell can really help me with this. What did you do?