Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

tavilach · Jul 29, 2005, 10:46 PM

Is it legal to buy a used CD? Is it moral? Do I have the right to assume that the individual didn't rip the songs prior to selling, or would that be a bad assumption?

Sage · Jul 29, 2005, 10:56 PM

I think the moral responsibility would fall on that person, not yourself – even if you bought a used CD at a store (which is, of course, totally legal), you can't possibly verify that the last person deleted the songs off of their HD, so there's really nothing you can do about it. I'd say it's fine on your part.

suvsr4terrorists · Jul 29, 2005, 10:59 PM

Wow. This is almost as retarded as claiming pot should be illegal. I feel dumber for having read this topic. Thanks.

budster101 · Jul 29, 2005, 11:05 PM

Is that possible?

tavilach · Jul 29, 2005, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

Wow. This is almost as retarded as claiming pot should be illegal. I feel dumber for having read this topic. Thanks.

What?

budster101 · Jul 29, 2005, 11:10 PM

He's crapping on your thread. I wouldn't take that if I were you. BTW. You are not responsible for what another person does with the music you buy. If they ripped CDs or not, this is not your concern. If you bought the original CD in the case, then the music and the right to listen to it belong to you now.

End of story.

ReggieX · Jul 29, 2005, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by tavilach

Is it legal to buy a used CD? Is it moral? Do I have the right to assume that the individual didn't rip the songs prior to selling, or would that be a bad assumption?

1) Yes, of course it is! Dumb question.
2) Yes, of course it is! Dumb question. Once the item is in my possession, I can fling it off a cliff if I wanted to. Morality doesn't even begin to enter into the transaction.
3) You can't assume a damn thing! Why do you think anyone ripped themselves a copy in the first place? Maybe they got it as a gift, listened once, and hated it, so they sold it.

budster101 · Jul 29, 2005, 11:28 PM

It isn't necessary to be condescending to this person. No question is dumb, and I'm profoundly dissapointed in both you and Ca$h, well not Ca$h, I expect that crap from him.

How exactly did you even contribute to this thread at all? You didn't.

Krypton · Jul 30, 2005, 04:00 AM

I would have thought the CD is the legal part wherever you purchase it - having mp3s of songs you don't own on a CD is more of an issue.

I think you're worrying about nothing basically

Chuckit · Jul 30, 2005, 04:14 AM

Originally Posted by budster101

No question is dumb.

Clearly you haven't been asked enough questions in your life. There are as many dumb questions as there are ignoramuses to ask them. (Not really commenting on the current thread. I've just heard way too many dumb questions to doubt their existence.)

Oh, and what Krypton said is exactly right.

macmad · Jul 30, 2005, 04:36 AM

What does a music CD's EULA say? I don't think I ever saw one, it only says "unauthorised copying, hiring, lending, public performance and broadcasting prohibited". (mmm, unauthorised lending is illegal?) I think if you own the CD, it's yours to do what you want with - you can not be held responsible for what someone else did with it when they owned it - but I'm no RIAA expert.

Railroader · Jul 30, 2005, 05:32 AM

Originally Posted by budster101

Is that possible?

Mastrap · Jul 30, 2005, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by budster101

No question is dumb,

I beg to differ.

The Godfather · Jul 30, 2005, 08:19 AM

Selling or buying CDs and DVDs, music or software is LEGAL and AMORAL. Keeping a bootleg copy and then selling it is ILLEGAL and IMMORAL. Selling your used CDs in a concert of the same artist is just CRUEL. Selling your OEM Windows XP because you like Linux better is just a CONVENIENT LEGAL OPTION.

budster101 · Jul 30, 2005, 08:50 AM

Beg all you want. You would be wrong. A simple question is not dumb to the person asking it, so it is then RUDE to insinuate that it is a dumb question.

If I happen to know how to burn a CD on my Mac, and a Windows user asks me how to do so, most in here might consider that a dumb question. I would not. I'm not rude however, like a few in here.

His question was answered almost immediately... anyone to follow would only be reinforcing the right answer with a bit more information, though maybe unecessary, it never hurts to have a bit extra.

Would you consider it dumb to answer this question with more information than necessary?

cpt kangarooski · Jul 30, 2005, 09:11 AM

tavilach--

Is it legal to buy a used CD? Is it moral?

Yes and yes.

Do I have the right to assume that the individual didn't rip the songs prior to selling, or would that be a bad assumption?

Who cares, and why would they care. It's irrelevant.

budster101--

If you bought the original CD in the case, then the music and the right to listen to it belong to you now.

Wrong on both counts. Music is unownable by anyone, and the right to listen to music exists whether you buy the CD or not. Ownership of the CD is only relevant with regards to accessing that specific CD, similar to how you should own (or have permission from the owner) before getting in a car. Listening is distinct, and more passive. If someone else plays a CD, and you can hear it, you can listen to it.

macmad--

What does a music CD's EULA say?

First, there is no such thing. Second, the very idea of EULAs is abhorrent, and to the degree they've had any traction so far, we ought to ban them with only rare exceptions if any.

The Godfather--

Selling or buying CDs and DVDs, music or software is LEGAL and AMORAL.

While I find copyright to generally be an amoral sphere, I think that people who engage in the buying and selling of copies are acting morally, in that they are essentially engaging in the spread and survivability of information.

Keeping a bootleg copy and then selling it is ILLEGAL and IMMORAL.

Actually there are circumstances where this sort of thing would not be illegal. And as for morality, while I'm still generally leaning towards amorality for anything to do with copyright, again, these people are engaging in the spread and survivability of information. This indicates morality, despite possible disutility.

chabig · Jul 30, 2005, 09:20 AM

The more times you rip from a CD, the quicker it gets used up.

suvsr4terrorists · Jul 30, 2005, 10:02 AM

This thread is stupid.

ReggieX · Jul 30, 2005, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by chabig

The more times you rip from a CD, the quicker it gets used up.

Good thing I never rip my own CDs, *Whew!* what a relief.

meelk · Jul 30, 2005, 01:52 PM

the only group seeing money from the sale of a used CD is the store/chain itself, not the artist, or the artist's company, so it doesnt really matter either way. btw, before I sold a big batch of CDs I had, I ripped them all in high quality mp3

tavilach · Jul 30, 2005, 04:49 PM

Food for thought: Would buying this be immoral, considering that he admitted ripping the tracks? What a fool...

nonhuman · Jul 30, 2005, 05:04 PM

Dude, just go down to Rasputin or Amoeba on Telegraph and buy some used CDs. The fact that they have chain stores that sell them (openly) in large quantities should tell you it's legal.

Railroader · Jul 30, 2005, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by meelk

the only group seeing money from the sale of a used CD is the store/chain itself, not the artist, or the artist's company, so it doesnt really matter either way. btw, before I sold a big batch of CDs I had, I ripped them all in high quality mp3

So, you're admitting and flaunting that you broke the law?!? Are you proud of that? Do you have any respect for the artists who make the music you like? Do you want them to keep making music?

Railroader · Jul 30, 2005, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by tavilach

Food for thought: Would buying this be immoral, considering that he admitted ripping the tracks? What a fool...

Buying it would be legal, but what he is doing is illegal. I reported him to eBay security.

ReggieX · Jul 30, 2005, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Railroader

So, you're admitting and flaunting that you broke the law?!? Are you proud of that? Do you have any respect for the artists who make the music you like? Do you want them to keep making music?

The artists already got their money. What's he supposed to do, give them away?

OpenStep · Jul 30, 2005, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

Wow. This is almost as retarded as claiming pot should be illegal. I feel dumber for having read this topic. Thanks.

Chuckit · Jul 30, 2005, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by Railroader

So, you're admitting and flaunting that you broke the law?!? Are you proud of that? Do you have any respect for the artists who make the music you like? Do you want them to keep making music?

Do you believe they'd make more money if he hadn't ripped the tracks?

suvsr4terrorists · Jul 30, 2005, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by ReggieX

The artists already got their money. What's he supposed to do, give them away?

Good point.

euchomai · Jul 30, 2005, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

Wow. This is almost as retarded as claiming pot should be illegal. I feel dumber for having read this topic. Thanks.

I don't have to claim it is illegal, in the US of A, IT IS illegal. So, what you just said is actually... Retarded...

Chuckit · Jul 30, 2005, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by euchomai

I don't have to claim it is illegal, in the US of A, IT IS illegal.

So was black people voting. That doesn't mean it should have been.

nredman · Jul 30, 2005, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by tavilach

Is it legal to buy a used CD? Is it moral? Do I have the right to assume that the individual didn't rip the songs prior to selling, or would that be a bad assumption?

ouch, my head hurts

tavilach · Jul 30, 2005, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by nonhuman

Dude, just go down to Rasputin or Amoeba on Telegraph and buy some used CDs. The fact that they have chain stores that sell them (openly) in large quantities should tell you it's legal.

Good call

. How cheap (on average) are the used CD's there, anyway? I never checked 'em out.

DeathMan · Jul 30, 2005, 10:26 PM

I vote "stupid thread"

Has the RIAA and it lawyers got us so afraid to listen to music that we're afraid to buy used cds? What's next? Prosecute avid buyers because they have a greater potential for copyright infringment?

I'm sure this isn't your first or last time hearing this: You think to much.

tavilach · Jul 30, 2005, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by DeathMan

I vote "stupid thread"

Has the RIAA and it lawyers got us so afraid to listen to music that we're afraid to buy used cds? What's next? Prosecute avid buyers because they have a greater potential for copyright infringment?

I'm sure this isn't your first or last time hearing this: You think to much.

First of all, that's not very polite.

Second of all, the legality can bite me. I have no reason to be scared, and I know that. I care about the morality.

d4nth3m4n · Jul 30, 2005, 10:38 PM

so i guess i'm going to hell because i bought my ipod with money i made selling my cds? (yes, i ripped them first)

oh well, see you all there.

tavilach · Jul 30, 2005, 10:50 PM

d4n lives!

Railroader · Jul 30, 2005, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by ReggieX

The artists already got their money. What's he supposed to do, give them away?

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Do you believe they'd make more money if he hadn't ripped the tracks?

Well, if he hadn't ripped them and sold them, then the other person would have been forced to pay retail, assuring that the artist got his cut.

Are you guys really so simple minded as to not have grasped that?

Railroader · Jul 30, 2005, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by d4nth3m4n

so i guess i'm going to hell because i bought my ipod with money i made selling my cds? (yes, i ripped them first)

oh well, see you all there.

Not all of us!

The Godfather · Jul 30, 2005, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by ReggieX

The artists already got their money. What's he supposed to do, give them away?

How's the artist going to get their platinum record if people keep sharing CDs? The moral thing to do is not to give the CD to another person if one is enjoying some artist's music.
If rip-and-sell gets out of control, the music industry is going to stop catering to the population that shares music: the young.

Chuckit · Jul 31, 2005, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

Well, if he hadn't ripped them and sold them, then the other person would have been forced to pay retail, assuring that the artist got his cut.

Oh, right. I forgot the part where he said his were the only used copies of those CDs in the world and that he would not have ever sold the bunch if he hadn't ripped the tracks. My bad.

Originally Posted by Railroader

Are you guys really so simple minded as to not have grasped that?

Are you really so naive as to believe the average artist gets any significant portion of the green when you buy the RIAA's crap? It's all going to the record company. If you want the artist to "get his cut," just mail him a $20.

Railroader · Jul 31, 2005, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Oh, right. I forgot the part where he said his were the only used copies of those CDs in the world and that he would not have ever sold the bunch if he hadn't ripped the tracks. My bad.

Are you one of those kids who whine to their mom "But the other kid's parents let them do it."? Just because other people are immoral doesn't mean you should be.

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Are you really so naive as to believe the average artist gets any significant portion of the green when you buy the RIAA's crap? It's all going to the record company. If you want the artist to "get his cut," just mail him a $20.

Ever tiny bit helps. Pennies add up my naive child.

tavilach · Jul 31, 2005, 01:13 AM

What's to gain by insulting people on an online forum? You guys need to chill out.

meelk · Jul 31, 2005, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

So, you're admitting and flaunting that you broke the law?!? Are you proud of that? Do you have any respect for the artists who make the music you like? Do you want them to keep making music?

Are you retarded? Did you read ANYTHING I wrote? THE ARTISTS DO NOT MAKE MONEY ON THE SALE OF USED CDs.

tavilach · Jul 31, 2005, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by meelk

Are you retarded? Did you read ANYTHING I wrote? THE ARTISTS DO NO MAKE MONEY ON THE SALE OF USED CDs.

You obviously didn't read what he said, either. Why don't you relax?

meelk · Jul 31, 2005, 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by tavilach

You obviously didn't read what he said, either. Why don't you relax?

Yes, I read exactly what he wrote, which was all entirely stupid. He seems to think that the used CDs I sold the store were the only ones in existence on the entire planet and because I sold them to the store, which was entirely legal, that the artists were somehow missing out, as someone would have the ability to "buy used not new". What I'm wondering is if he's EVER bought a used car, used furniture, used anything. By his own logic, it would essentially be a crime, as companies who make those products new wouldnt benefit from his used sale.

Arty50 · Jul 31, 2005, 02:12 AM

Originally Posted by DeathMan

Has the RIAA and it lawyers got us so afraid to listen to music that we're afraid to buy used cds? What's next? Prosecute avid buyers because they have a greater potential for copyright infringment?

Actually, when used CDs were first being sold the RIAA sued record stores who were involved in the practice. We all know how this verdict turned out since almost every record store you walk in today sells used CDs. Those bastards will do anything to support their price fixing scheme. Speaking of which, do you know that the Big 5 (now the big 4) actually lost a price fixing case with regard to CDs? Good to see that prices have come down as a result.

Railroader · Jul 31, 2005, 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by meelk

Are you retarded? Did you read ANYTHING I wrote? THE ARTISTS DO NOT MAKE MONEY ON THE SALE OF USED CDs.

You did not state that you were selling used CDs. You sounded like you had bought CDs (retail) and then sold them because you go the info off them and didn't need them anymore.

So, you bought used CDs. It doesn't bother you that the artists you like so much didn't make a penny from the sale?

Railroader · Jul 31, 2005, 02:35 AM

Originally Posted by meelk

Yes, I read exactly what he wrote, which was all entirely stupid. He seems to think that the used CDs I sold the store were the only ones in existence on the entire planet and because I sold them to the store, which was entirely legal, that the artists were somehow missing out, as someone would have the ability to "buy used not new". What I'm wondering is if he's EVER bought a used car, used furniture, used anything. By his own logic, it would essentially be a crime, as companies who make those products new wouldnt benefit from his used sale.

You are comparing music to furniture?

I guess this debate is over. You don't think like a normal person and any attempts on my part will be futile. Have a good day.

meelk · Jul 31, 2005, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

You did not state that you were selling used CDs. You sounded like you had bought CDs (retail) and then sold them because you go the info off them and didn't need them anymore.

So, you bought used CDs. It doesn't bother you that the artists you like so much didn't make a penny from the sale?

No, I actually bought NEW cds, and eventually sold my collection. No, it doesnt bother me whatsoever, its entirely legal, hence why you can buy used CDs all over the goddamn place.

GET OVER IT.

meelk · Jul 31, 2005, 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

You are comparing music to furniture?

I guess this debate is over. You don't think like a normal person and any attempts on my part will be futile. Have a good day.

There is absolutely NO difference given your logic. I simply backed you into a corner. You got handed your head by an arguement you cant win, so yes, please leave.