[besson3c]

I'm a Canadian living in America right now.

A big peeve of mine: tasteless and uncreative patriotism.

I don't think low-resolution Coreldraw art that gets chain emailed around is terribly inspiring at all. I don't think there is much of anything patriotic about buying some junk at Walmart and displaying it on your car (e.g. "support our troops" magnets) - chances are about 500,000 other people have that same trinket and bought it from the same place. Although God Bless America is a beautiful song, it has almost become a cliché.

I think it is great that America seems so hyper-patriotic right now (I just came from the Canada Day celebration in Ottawa, it seemed relatively subdued). However, a little taste and creativity would go a long way.

Am I the only one that gets annoyed at this, or am I officially un-American?

[besson3c]

I think one of the highest, if not the highest form of patriotism is writing a (powerful, not insipid) song/suite/other form of musical work dedicated to your country like so many of the romantic Classical composers did.

Beats Walmart American flag waving lawn gnomes any day of the week....

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by besson3c

I think one of the highest, if not the highest form of patriotism is writing a (powerful, not insipid) song/suite/other form of musical work dedicated to your country like so many of the romantic Classical composers did.

Beats Walmart American flag waving lawn gnomes any day of the week....

There are flag waving lawn gnomes?!?!? I am so going to Walmart after work!


(And then switching out the flags. )

[budster101]

Well, I stopped using CorelDraw when they screwed me over for licensing issues when switching from PC to Mac... I was with them from day 1 and they suck as a company. I mean who really gives a crap about CorelDraw except some backwards print shops anyway?

How do you know that those things were made with CorelDraw? Do something better then and make a few dollars.

I am annoyed at any obscene outward acts of patriotism or nonsensical bumber stickers.. but I'm more practical maybe than most. What annoys me more? Non-Americans bashing Americans for idiotic things like a friggin magnetic sticker. I'd say you don't qualify to be un-American, because you have to be American in the first place...

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by budster101

Well, I stopped using CorelDraw when they screwed me over for licensing issues when switching from PC to Mac... I was with them from day 1 and they suck as a company. I mean who really gives a crap about CorelDraw except some backwards print shops anyway?

How do you know that those things were made with CorelDraw? Do something better then and make a few dollars.

Unless this was an intentional digression (which, of course, is perfectly fine , I thought I would point out that this has nothing to do with my point.

I am annoyed at any obscene outward acts of patriotism or nonsensical bumber stickers.. but I'm more practical maybe than most. What annoys me more? Non-Americans bashing Americans for idiotic things like a friggin magnetic sticker. I'd say you don't qualify to be un-American, because you have to be American in the first place...

I'm confused.. could you elaborate?

[ghporter]

The biggest thing I notice about the "tasteless and uncreative" folks is that they just aren't used to expressing patriotism. Americans have had their patriotism ground out of them for a couple of generations, and figuring out how to express it is not easy.

No matter how "relevant" "M*A*S*H" was as an antiwar statement, it was most certainly about Viet Nam, not Korea, and that is an important point. Whether people were excited about the idea of American soldiers fighting in Korea, they felt that their country was still worthwhile. It wasn't until the late 1960s that idiotic thugs spouting "my country, right or wrong" and doing the WRONG thing by violating the free-speech rights of protestors really turned public sentiment against showing patriotic feelings. I hate those morons for coopting a phrase that is only part of the sentiment, and making it seem as if believing in the ideals your country was founded on is a mistake. Somebody on these forums has a quote about patriotism from Mark Twain to the effect that it means believing in your country all the time, and your politicians when they deserve it. A lot of people are a bit too dim to "get it" in this situation.

I grew up in the 60s and 70s, and I saw what happened to people who felt their ethical and moral responsibility was to serve their country, whether or not they believed in the cause that was being fought over. It was appalling, a backlash of truly horrible proportions. Further, I enlisted in the "all volunteer force" shortly after the end of the war in Viet Nam, and I felt the anti-military, anti-government sentiment very personally.

I've dedicated over 23 years of my life to serving my country. My family has gone through an enormous amount of crap because of my service. But I'm proud of that service, even if only ONE person realizes that I did it for them-and I have had the thanks of a few to validate my pride.

No, I don't have a bunch of stupid stuff on my car, but I live in a military-oriented town. There are a lot of people here who have family members in harm's way right now, and I'm certainly not going to say anything against their putting magnets on their cars and signs in their yards. I agree with you, though, about the large number of idiots who think they're being patriotic by putting a silly magnet on their car and doing nothing else.

I actually value a more objective observation of the way my countrymen behave. And I can say that there are a lot of people who love being Americans (no offense, Canadians!) in spite of what they may see as poor leadership, mistakes in foreign policy, and anything else you may want to mention.

[budster101]

Just that you sounded like you were ranting, which is ok, but I don't get the problem? It's an annoyance sure but, is your gripe that it is bad art or that it is just too much for you to handle?

I'm confused about your purpose here, can you elaborate?

What exactly is your beef here? Do you like Corel and hate those that use it? I was addressing my own feelings with Corel as a company and their product which no longer supports Mac...

You can handle a more 3 dimensional discussion right? I was not sure what your point was so I addressed each individual aspect of it, so I didn't miss the point...

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ghporter

The biggest thing I notice about the "tasteless and uncreative" folks is that they just aren't used to expressing patriotism. Americans have had their patriotism ground out of them for a couple of generations, and figuring out how to express it is not easy.

No matter how "relevant" "M*A*S*H" was as an antiwar statement, it was most certainly about Viet Nam, not Korea, and that is an important point. Whether people were excited about the idea of American soldiers fighting in Korea, they felt that their country was still worthwhile. It wasn't until the late 1960s that idiotic thugs spouting "my country, right or wrong" and doing the WRONG thing by violating the free-speech rights of protestors really turned public sentiment against showing patriotic feelings. I hate those morons for coopting a phrase that is only part of the sentiment, and making it seem as if believing in the ideals your country was founded on is a mistake. Somebody on these forums has a quote about patriotism from Mark Twain to the effect that it means believing in your country all the time, and your politicians when they deserve it. A lot of people are a bit too dim to "get it" in this situation.

I grew up in the 60s and 70s, and I saw what happened to people who felt their ethical and moral responsibility was to serve their country, whether or not they believed in the cause that was being fought over. It was appalling, a backlash of truly horrible proportions. Further, I enlisted in the "all volunteer force" shortly after the end of the war in Viet Nam, and I felt the anti-military, anti-government sentiment very personally.

I've dedicated over 23 years of my life to serving my country. My family has gone through an enormous amount of crap because of my service. But I'm proud of that service, even if only ONE person realizes that I did it for them-and I have had the thanks of a few to validate my pride.

No, I don't have a bunch of stupid stuff on my car, but I live in a military-oriented town. There are a lot of people here who have family members in harm's way right now, and I'm certainly not going to say anything against their putting magnets on their cars and signs in their yards. I agree with you, though, about the large number of idiots who think they're being patriotic by putting a silly magnet on their car and doing nothing else.

I actually value a more objective observation of the way my countrymen behave. And I can say that there are a lot of people who love being Americans (no offense, Canadians!) in spite of what they may see as poor leadership, mistakes in foreign policy, and anything else you may want to mention.

Well said...

Do you think that, in a way, ugly chain emails written on garish purple backgrounds, and the lawn gnome thing I describe in a way undermines your cause? In other words, do you ever take offense at all of the patriotic merchandise, and the capitalism driving all of this?

This is a sort of a variation of my original question.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by budster101

Just that you sounded like you were ranting, which is ok, but I don't get the problem? It's an annoyance sure but, is your gripe that it is bad art or that it is just too much for you to handle?

I'm confused about your purpose here, can you elaborate?

What exactly is your beef here? Do you like Corel and hate those that use it? I was addressing my own feelings with Corel as a company and their product which no longer supports Mac...

You can handle a more 3 dimensional discussion right? I was not sure what your point was so I addressed each individual aspect of it, so I didn't miss the point...

Fair enough... I realize this is somewhat hard to describe, and unfair of me to assume that everybody will just "get it"...

My beef is with the bad art, the tasteless, cheap merchandise, and the pull to all of this stuff. You can throw in cheesy emails (you know, the kind with the God Bless America MIDI soundtrack) into this umbrella.

I can't quite pinpoint exactly what it is that annoys me about this. It could be with my perceived notion of our culture being somehow moved by this, it could be the odd notion of expressing patriotism by buying cheap stuff (stuff I wouldn't be surprised to find isn't even made in America), it could be the fact that everybody just seems to mindlessly do the same thing.

There is nothing wrong with expressing patriotism, I just find myself annoyed at the manner in which some people choose to do so. I've read accounts like what ghporter has written, and this helps put everything into context for me. However, I also wonder how many people act based on their post-Vietnam experiences, and how many of us (particularly younger folk) are just mindless sheep who somehow think you are just *supposed* to do this stuff, or if you aren't you simply are un-American.

Am I starting to make sense now?

[budster101]

You get e-mail like that? Weird. That would piss me off a little... but I'd just report it just like the rest of the spam.

It's like the "Baby on Board" stickers / suction tags on windows... grin. It's all good.... albeit obnoxious.

You are not supposed to do it. I don't... I'm not "un-American"... I support in my own way. Quietly.

Well, in here, maybe not so much.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Well said...

Do you think that, in a way, ugly chain emails written on garish purple backgrounds, and the lawn gnome thing I describe in a way undermines your cause? In other words, do you ever take offense at all of the patriotic merchandise, and the capitalism driving all of this?

This is a sort of a variation of my original question.

I don't think those attempts, if genuinely felt, undermine anything, any more than I think poorly of a person who tries hard to dance and isn't too coordinated (which includes me from time to time). It's the insincere and obsequeous displays-often very tasteful and well designed-that rub me the wrong way. People who can't be bothered to pick up a piece of trash in the park will make a big deal about how they "support the troops." Their displays, however pretty and tasteful, are rubbish.

[SVass]

So, is this patriotic junk at Walmart made in China? Why would any union member buy anything from Walmart? Even Corel is a Canadian company and they didn't join us in our crusade to liberate Iraq from the devil. I have noticed that most of the so-called patriots never served. Every person that I personally know who has been in the service is opposed to our present activities and does not display tacky stuff. Of course, I live in a blue state so I do not know what is going on elsewhere. sam

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by ghporter

I actually value a more objective observation of the way my countrymen behave. And I can say that there are a lot of people who love being Americans (no offense, Canadians!) in spite of what they may see as poor leadership, mistakes in foreign policy, and anything else you may want to mention.

I think you hit the nail on the head: the conflating of "patriotism" with "America do or die" has done more to harm the ideals of being a patriot than anything else. I can't stand Bush because of what he's doing to my country.

[GSixZero]

My thing about patriotism is that it usually is more about the person claiming it than it is about the country. If I had a ribbon on my car, it wouldn't help the soldiers, it would just be me pointing out that I cared enough to bend over in the Walmart check out line to choose the $3.99 magnet that I wanted.

Patriotism isn't putting a flag or magnetic ribbon on your car, it's going out and helping your country. Instead of spending $10 for a flag and ribbon at the check out at Walmart, buy a $10 phone card and send it to a soldier in Iraq. Read the newspaper, vote, don't shop at WalMart, call your congress people, volunteer, pay attention. These are all acts of patriotism that are much greater than sporting a ribbon.

[GranolaBoy]

There is nothing creative about patriotism, itself. I mean, isn't a person either talented or not? I guess I don't understand how the artistic thing and the patriotic thing have anything to do with each other.

As for a Canadian living in America -- I think there were times in our history that I'd have been proud to have you in our country. Let's hope things turn around before too long.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by SVass

So, is this patriotic junk at Walmart made in China? Why would any union member buy anything from Walmart? Even Corel is a Canadian company and they didn't join us in our crusade to liberate Iraq from the devil. I have noticed that most of the so-called patriots never served. Every person that I personally know who has been in the service is opposed to our present activities and does not display tacky stuff. Of course, I live in a blue state so I do not know what is going on elsewhere. sam

Yes, the majority of the inexpensive pseudo-patriotic junk you see for sale comes from China. And I don't think ANYONE, union or not, should be buying most of Wal-Mart's crap. First, it's crap. Second, it's made in China under who knows what conditions by people who may or may not be effectively slave laborers. Third, no matter what you think about unions, Wal-Mart treats most of their employees like dog crap. And finally, the management of Wal-Mart is stupid enough to try to supersaturate their markets-they are effectively trying to build a store every few blocks wherever they can get away with it. If all we have for shopping choices is Wal-Mart and Target, we are up the creek without a paddle. They suck.

I have had to point out to fairly senior Air Force leadership that various items purchased for official use were bought from China instead of the States...most of them were chagrined, but unfortunately not all of them.

[Captain Obvious]

Originally Posted by besson3c

chances are about 500,000 other people have that same trinket and bought it from the same place. Although God Bless America is a beautiful song, it has almost become a cliché.

I think it is great that America seems so hyper-patriotic right now (I just came from the Canada Day celebration in Ottawa, it seemed relatively subdued). However, a little taste and creativity would go a long way.

Am I the only one that gets annoyed at this

Insincere stupid outward symbols people wear to pretend they care about something?


Hate them.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

Insincere stupid outward symbols people wear to pretend they care about something?


Hate them.

I have yet to be able to find an actual "LiveStrong" wrist band, though I've found tons of fakes and look alikes. A good friend of mine's sisters-all three-are breast cancer survivors, so when she wears a pink ribbon, it means something, but as you say, most people are quite insincere, and warrant your derision.

[budster101]

Well the whole idea of the "Livestrong" was to give to the foundation and then get a band in return... not buy one on Ebay and walk around like you gave to the foundation...

My wife donated to "Breast Cancer Research" and received a pink band from them. Did she wear it for a day? Yes. Does she wear it continually? No.

What really irritates me is, the Hollywood crowd and all their multi-colored ribbons.

If you care about the troops, go to a foundation so you can send a care package, write a letter or offer some support in one way without advertising it. Even if against the war, at least send a care package to the children of Iraq.

I can provide links if interested.

[budster101]

Treats for Troops

Operation Iraqi Children

Gary Sinise (Canadian) Is behind this effort.

[d4nth3m4n]

virgin mary in a bathtup > anything patriotic in the tasteless category.

[Kevin]

Who really cares. In the big scheme of things, there can be a lot worse things people can be doing.

Like murdering, stealing, listening to Michael Bolten records.