[tgags]

Very disapointed in the new VW Jetta design. Been reading a lot about it lately, and VW just doesn't get it. The dealers are blaming the low sales on the price (report having been shipped too many of high end (pricier) models). The design is poor. People are comparing it to a Carolla, all I know is that it lost its sportiness. With the previous model design, there were so many Jettas on the road. Now, don't see too many. To me it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know it's the design. Same thing happened with the Honda Prelude. You used to see so many on the road, then they changed the design, which I thought was terrible - and it must not have been just me, because you hardly saw any on the road. Now they stopped making them. Honda's poor design killed it. It also happened with the Mitsubishi Eclipse - before the redesign you'd see them all over. Then after the new design (not the current one, the one before) you only saw a few here and there. And I remember I went to the dealer and they had so many on the lot, they had tons of incentives trying to get rid of them. I told they guy, 'no thanks, they are ugly'. Redesigns can affect sales. Car makers never seem to be able to admit it (though BMW recently did with its 7 series).

Anyway, I think VW's in for some quartly losses with that new Jetta design. It's funny, their new ads seem to be heavily touting the safety reports now - perhaps reflecting that the style is not acquring the appeal they had hoped. I understand sytle is subjective, but again, I think it just lost that sporty look that made it so popular before (as one maagazine put it, "like the iPod of automobiles").

Anyone like it? Dislike it? I think the sales will ultimately speak for themselves.
TG

[cdetdi]

Originally Posted by tgags

Very disapointed in the new VW Jetta design. Been reading a lot about it lately, and VW just doesn't get it. The dealers are blaming the low sales on the price (report having been shipped too many of high end (pricier) models). The design is poor. People are comparing it to a Carolla, all I know is that it lost its sportiness. With the previous model design, there were so many Jettas on the road. Now, don't see too many. To me it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know it's the design. Same thing happened with the Honda Prelude. You used to see so many on the road, then they changed the design, which I thought was terrible - and it must not have been just me, because you hardly saw any on the road. Now they stopped making them. Honda's poor design killed it. It also happened with the Mitsubishi Eclipse - before the redesign you'd see them all over. Then after the new design (not the current one, the one before) you only saw a few here and there. And I remember I went to the dealer and they had so many on the lot, they had tons of incentives trying to get rid of them. I told they guy, 'no thanks, they are ugly'. Redesigns can affect sales. Car makers never seem to be able to admit it (though BMW recently did with its 7 series).

Anyway, I think VW's in for some quartly losses with that new Jetta design. It's funny, their new ads seem to be heavily touting the safety reports now - perhaps reflecting that the style is not acquring the appeal they had hoped. I understand sytle is subjective, but again, I think it just lost that sporty look that made it so popular before (as one maagazine put it, "like the iPod of automobiles").

Anyone like it? Dislike it? I think the sales will ultimately speak for themselves.
TG

I am a HUGE VW fanatic (the "tdi" in my handle is a VW trademark for their diesel engines). That said, I don't especially like the new Jetta or the Passat. I think the new look goes well with the Golf, but the Passat and Jetta just don't have the refined look they used to. Reports also say that interior materials have gone down slightly in quality. Similar to BMW and their styling change, the bigger changes are in engineering. The new Jetta incorporates a whole load of new technologies and more advanced designs. Most importantly, the new Engines are very very impressive. The 2.5 liter base engine has gotten good reviews, while the performance 2.0 liter turbocharged makes good power as well.

About the BMW 7 series, so many people complained and BMW did change the design (for the better, IMO) BUT that was STILL the BEST SELLING 7 series ever. Explain that...

cdetdi

[ajprice]

The Jetta is a seller in the USA until now then??? Wow, over here in the UK the Jetta (Called the Bora over here) has always been looked at as the Golf's idiot cousin. It has never sold well, and the second hand ones are always cheaper than the equivalent Golf. They have made the new one look a lot like the Passat and Phaeton, they aimed for 'classy' instead of 'sporty'. Maybe they want it to be thought of as a cheaper alternative to an Audi A4, which I don't understand because Audi and VW are part of the same group.

If it is right that it is losing sales, then all is not lost, they could easily give it Golf GTi parts and get the sportyness back. Although I would think that you are not seeing many new ones, because it hasn't been on sale long, compared to the twelvety gazillion of the previous model already on the road!

Edit:

This is what I'm talking about, they're doing it already, but its called a GLi.


Golf GTi

[cdetdi]

And the new Jetta is actually called the Jetta everywhere now. A big movement in the US was putting "BORA" badges on the old Jetta, but some idiots over here actually wanted to/did put BORA badges on their new Jetta.

Hatchbacks just aren't as popular in the US as in the UK, and the Jetta has been the #1 seller for VW for the longest time. Base model Golfs, which do very well in Europe, are not popular. Parts of this, however, is the price difference. Jettas/Boras and Golfs are considerably more expensive in the UK and Europe and are in a different class. We don't nearly the options that are available overseas. We also don't get the Polo or the Lupo, lower models than the Golf. A Golf over here is the bottom of the barrel type car. No "highline" models with Navigation or the like, no Golf Plus either (we still have the old Golf too, btw).

cdetdi

[pman68]

Yep. The new GTi's look pretty sweet!





But I'll keep my 2.5RS Impreza for now.

[tgags]

Hmm, yea perhaps they will see some growth there. The 3 and 5 door cars seem to be gainig in popularity(seeing a lot of mazda 3 hatches, toyota matrixes around lately. And even Audi is banking on that area with the new A 3 Sportback). Unfortunately I think it's a niche market.

[Adam Betts]

I'm not a huge car freak but I have always enjoyed old Jetta design and bought 2001 edition. I still have the car and love em so damn much.

I got an offer from my dealer asking me to trade in my car for 2005 edition and I only need to pay $2k but I'm not interested (apparently they made more profit off selling used old Jetta than new one). New design is too rich/snobby if you know what I mean.


vs.

[turtle777]

I also prefer the old Jetta design.
I have a 2004 Jetta, and I am glad I didn't wait for the new design. It's not worth it.



-t

[goMac]

<mumbles and cowers in fear of being stoned>

I like the new Jetta...

[suvsr4terrorists]

The new design looks like a corolla. It's pretty bad.



The old one looked refined and somewhat classy. That said, car companies always manage to screw up good designs. Take the old Integra, vs the RSX. Something low and lightweight and strong looking, into something tall, heavy, and fat looking. Or the CRX, which was a fantastic design, into the pathetic Del Sol. Or the 1st generation neon, to the 2nd generation neon (same as integra, light and sporty into fat and tall). It's nothing new. It's just hard to get the right look twice in a row. The current Chrysler 300C looks fantastic. They'll probably screw it up in the next revision.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

The current Chrysler 300C looks fantastic. They'll probably screw it up in the next revision.

Yeah, it does. I hope they'll keep it for a while.

-t

[Kerrigan]

The jetta has grown up in order to keep up with its target market: it gained a few pounds, looks more professional, and is ready to compete with the big boys. I'm talking about the car, but the same could be said of the typical person they are marketing it to.

Frankly though, I thought the whole point of growing up and making decent money was so that you would no longer have to drive a VW.

[suvsr4terrorists]

But it looks CHEAPER. It doesn't look more refined, it doesn't look more successful. That big chrome melted front end reminds me of ford's mid 90s "almost melting" lame spineless look. Blech. Plus it looks more ghetto.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

The jetta has grown up in order to stay in touch with its biggest market: it gained a few pounds, looks more professional, and is ready to compete with the big boys.

Who is the 'big boys' that the Jetta is supposed to compete with ?

-t

[Kerrigan]

As others have mentioned, it is supposed to compete with lower end Audis.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

As others have mentioned, it is supposed to compete with lower end Audis.

Why the heck would VW want to compete with Audi ?
And what Audi model ?

A2 and A3 ? No (Golf is more likely)
A4 ? If so, then that's the Passat's business.
A6 and A8 ? No.

No, that doesn't make sense. That is NOT what is on VW's mind.

-t

[Kerrigan]

So I suppose I should just agree with you, that they made the car more expensive and much nicer inside in order for it to move downmarket?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

So I suppose I should just agree with you, that they made the car more expensive and much nicer inside in order for it to move downmarket?

I did NOT disagree with the competition part in general. But VW trying to compete with Audi, this is IMHO idiotic ! Maybe it makes sense for you, so please explain !

So tell me, what Audi model are they targetting ?

-t

[ajprice]

Thinking about it, I think the reason why VW is going upmarket is because they got pi**ed off at BMW when they announced the Golf size 1 Series model, because they saw it as a rival to the Golf, and BMW had never directly competed against VW before. So VW made the Phaeton as a big BMW rival, and started to raise the game with their existing models when comapred to the equivalent size BMW. But like it has been said here, that move isn't logical, because VW have Audi as the BMW rival in their group.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ajprice

Thinking about it, I think the reason why VW is going upmarket is because they got pi**ed off at BMW when they announced the Golf size 1 Series model, because they saw it as a rival to the Golf, and BMW had never directly competed against VW before. So VW made the Phaeton as a big BMW rival, and started to raise the game with their existing models when comapred to the equivalent size BMW.

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Phaeton was announced BEFORE BMW announced the 1 Series. So I would say that IF there was some sort of connection, it was rather BMW who decided to go and compete against VW in the lower classes.

Originally Posted by ajprice

But like it has been said here, that move isn't logical, because VW have Audi as the BMW rival in their group.

I'm not sure if Kerrigan even knows that Audi = VW = Skoda = Seat = Bugatti = Bentley = Lamborghini.

-t

[ASIMO]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

The jetta has grown up in order to keep up with its target market: it gained a few pounds...

To better fit our ever-increasing avoirdupois.

[jasonsRX7]

to the new Jetta. I thought maybe it would grow on me but it hasn't yet.

[Link]

Geez, never seen that GTI till now but it looks like a mid 90s honda hatchback. Is the only thing these designers have -- a copy machine in their design room?

The GTI looks like a hatchback corolla (thanks cash) {I think HONDA lol}
The new Passat looks like a lengthened Altima
and the New Jetta looks like a Toyota Corolla

[suvsr4terrorists]

Originally Posted by ajprice

but its called a GLi.

Is that an SUV? Holy wheel gap batman! That thing looks jacked up!

[villalobos]

Actually in YTD sales they have sold more jettas this year than last year. In month by month the Jettas was up something like 12% over last year july sales. Not a huge accomplishment given the way sales have been going down in the last 2-3 years but they seem to have at least some stability now with the Jettas. And that is without the 2.0T which will attract quite a few buyers.

I still don't like it though : and anyway I would wait to see the progress on reliability to buy one. The style fits the Golf better.

[effgee]

Jetta? Sporty?



There's precious few "sporty" sedans to begin with - and one thing's for sure: no Golf with a bolted-on trunk has ever been or will ever be sporty. A decent, reliable, and quite boring (hence the name "Bora" over here in Europe) car for retired folks? Yup. A "sporty", yuppie-sedan? LOL, you've been had by VW's marketing dept.

[Link]

The thing is, people in Europe consider dinky little hatchbacks sporty. I like the trunk bolted on, myself

[sek929]

The new Jetta is pug fugly. I'll take the previous gen anyday.

[effgee]

Originally Posted by Link

The thing is, people in Europe consider dinky little hatchbacks sporty. ...

What parts of Europe would that be? A hatchback's little more than a small car for young folk or people living in a city. Sporty? Uhm, nope - not really. Sporty, at least the way I understand it, is more a question of engine, drivetrain, springs, brakes and - last but not least - the type of car. E.g.: Porsche 911, sporty. Jetta/Golf/etc., not sporty - as in "not ever".

[rickey939]

I'd take an '88 Dodge Aries with a "standard" map light over a new VW Jetta.

[suvsr4terrorists]

Originally Posted by effgee

Jetta? Sporty?



There's precious few "sporty" sedans to begin with - and one thing's for sure: no Golf with a bolted-on trunk has ever been or will ever be sporty. A decent, reliable, and quite boring (hence the name "Bora" over here in Europe) car for retired folks? Yup. A "sporty", yuppie-sedan? LOL, you've been had by VW's marketing dept.

Not really. My buddy has a GLI, like this one, only black:



VR6, 6spd. It's got a lot of oomph, and it's a blast to drive.

[tgags]

As far as intending to compete with the 'big boys', one of the articles I read said they did make it bigger to compete with the likes of the Accord and Camry as opposed to the Civic and Carolla. I though the prev model already did that (esp with the various enging configs they offered).
I guess the whole thing was a shift in product line positioning. I'd say why mess with a good thing, but the articles said VW sales have not been that good over recent years. Could have fooled me, I guess if the CEO ain't making gazillions...
Anyway, I feel good knowing I'm not the only one who doesn't like it.

TG

[angelmb]

The reason people buy VW is beyond me, they give german cars a bad name and a bad reputation.

[cdetdi]

There are really interesting comparisons between the Corolla and the new jetta. From what I remember, the Corolla has better leg room, front and rear, is faster, faster through a slalom and is cheaper than the jetta.

As for buying a VW, I don't enjoy driving other cars except VWs. To me, they all have a "feel" that I enjoy very much. As for their bad name a reputation, that really isn't founded, VW has been responsible with introducing German cars to most of the US, and now German brands, especially the Audi nameplate, are doing very well. The reason thing like CR give VWs a bad rap is because of an issue they had with faulty coilpacks: from 99-2003 the 1.8 turbocharged engine had been produced with bad coilpacks that were causing lots of problems, VW replaced ALL of them for that entire span, fixing those problems. All the VWs I have had experience are very reliable and many of them have extremely high mileage (300,000 US mi and more) and are still running beautifully.

[suvsr4terrorists]

You forgot window regulators.

[Troll]

I got to test drive the Alfa 159 on the weekend. Let's just say that I would take this car over a Jetta any day. Not only a better design but a far nicer car to drive. In Europe, the 159 can be had for around the same price as a Jetta. It will apparently eventually make its way to the States.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Troll

I got to test drive the Alfa 159 on the weekend.

I remember years ago, Alfa had a horrible quality statistic. Has that changed for the better ?

-t

[cdetdi]

Yeah, window regulators too. The problem there was a plastic part was put in place of a metal one by the cost-cutters at VW. VW engineering is spectacular, but, as is the case with all car companies, those that control the bottom line make decisions that hurt that engineering.

[suvsr4terrorists]

They seem to be doing okay. The problem wasn't actually the reliability of hte alfas, it was the manner in which they were brought over to the states. The dealership network was very shakey, it was hard to find parts, hard to find service, hard to find dealerships in general. If they do bring them back, they better come back in a BIG WAY because the same fate awaits them if they try to do it half-assed again.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

They seem to be doing okay. The problem wasn't actually the reliability of hte alfas, it was the manner in which they were brought over to the states.

I dunno about the states. I remember a coworker who had an Alfa in Germany mid-end 90s. It was in for service ALL the time...

-t

[cdetdi]

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

They seem to be doing okay. The problem wasn't actually the reliability of hte alfas, it was the manner in which they were brought over to the states. The dealership network was very shakey, it was hard to find parts, hard to find service, hard to find dealerships in general. If they do bring them back, they better come back in a BIG WAY because the same fate awaits them if they try to do it half-assed again.

Yep

[Troll]

Originally Posted by turtle777

I remember years ago, Alfa had a horrible quality statistic. Has that changed for the better ?

-t

Inside, it's better quality than a BMW 3 series IMHO. An Audi is about the only car that is better from a quality perspective. It's amazing what a good job they've done. Everything feels really solid. I couldn't find a single blemish on any of the test models they showed. Unlike the BMW 1 Series launch I went to where gloveboxes fell open and fell off!

There have always been reliability concerns with Alfas (I owned a 75 Spider so I know!) but they have really improved in that area. The last incarnation of this car, the 156 (which was European car of the year) proved that Alfa had turned a corner. It is an absolute joy to drive. Honestly, I think only the 3 series comes close. What Alfa now needs to address is their servicing. Their dealers are not the best around.

[suvsr4terrorists]

Alfas are sexy.

http://www.carlone.ch/Neue%20Autos2/...TV%206%202.JPG

http://www.carlone.ch/Neue%20Autos/A...%208.5x18).JPG

[Troll]

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

Alfas are sexy.

The guys from Alfa told me that the Alfa Brera is nearly ready to go to production. They also has a GT there which is a great looking car.

www.italiancar.com.au/images/brera_05_lg.jpg
http://blogsimages.skynet.be/images/...202%20copy.jpg

[the_glassman]

I've always thought that all VW's=teh uGly, but the R32 is borderline good looking.

[suvsr4terrorists]

R32 is good looking, but not VW's only hot car. You forgot the corrado:

http://www.mortoko.ca/corrado/images/113-1344_IMG.JPG

Or the scirocco:

http://www.freewebs.com/gday113/Scirocco%20GT%20II.jpg

Or the old school GTis.

[sek929]

Corrado is the shiznat. To bad most are beat to a pulp...

I'd love an old 85 Vintage (the ones with the four seperate round lights on the front) Gti, for some reason they always look like they should be rallying.

[pooka]

Originally Posted by Troll

I got to test drive the Alfa 159 on the weekend.

*shudders*
It looks like a cat. I think I'd prefer to bury it (alive) than test drive it.

[greenamp]

The new Jetta actually looks quite nice IMO. Had it's new design debuted before the Corolla's, most people opinions of it would probably be different.

It's just that it looks SO much alike to the Corolla that turns everyone off. Nobody wants to spend 20-30k on a car known for it's uniqueness which looks exactly like a mid sized econo-sedan.

[Doofy]

In the interests of not letting this thread degenerate into a conversation about old persons' cars which some people incorrectly think are sporty, here's a properly sporty vehicle: