[Weyland-Yutani]

Hi guys! I was searching with Google for old Atari ST abandonware to play on NoSTalgia (Mac Atari ST emulator). I searched for Space Quest III a thoroughly abandoned game.

So what do I encounter at the bottom of the Google page?

En respuesta a una queja que recibimos con referencia al Digital Millennium Copyright Act, hemos quitado 1 resultado(s) de esta página. Si lo desea, puede leer la queja DMCA con respecto a los mencionados resultados.

(more or less: "in response to a complaint we got reg. the DMCA, we've omitted 1 result in this pace. If you so desire, you can read the complaint from the DMCA and the results thereof."

Excuse me? I have double checked and the DMCA is not applicable outside a country called the United States. Shame search engines are filtering out contents for us. Bad bad. Shut down the sites in the US but don't filter out information in the search engines you spineless, dickless twits!!

Perhaps search engines based outside the USA are necessary?

Oh, here is the link to the search quiry: http://www.google.com/search?q=space...&oi=lrtip8

Yet the link provided by Google to the DMCA complaint is this: http://www.chillingeffects.org/notice.cgi?sID=389

and it is a 404.

Thanks a bunch. At least I found the game.

cheers and **** the DMCA (in countries where it doesn't apply - and perhaps in USA too?)

W-Y

[Link]

**** the DMCA here too. It's amazing what kinda crap the other half of people who voted allowed the government to do. Too bad there isn't much we can do about it for now

[Chuckit]

There isn't a whole lot we can do to stop Congress making such laws, since there isn't an anti-IP special interest group.

[m a d r a]

i don't get the warning and i also seem to get a lot more results. [i'm presuming the search term was "space quest pirates atari"]. could it be coz i've got my google prefs set to use irish as the interface language? - maybe if you're using english or spanish it assumes you're in the US?

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

There isn't a whole lot we can do to stop Congress making such laws, since there isn't an anti-IP special interest group.

Indeed.

I perceive this as spinelessness or worse on behalf of Google, since search engines or even applications popular or convenient to find and acquire illegal digital copies of intellectual property are not culpable.

Nobody is sending the makers of BitTorrent cease and desist letters or the makers of VCRs (the kids probably don't know what those are.. )

I don't know what part of the DMCA Google thinks is in violation but I'd like to know. They don't seem to want to tell though. (i.e. the 404 on their link to the complaint)

The other part is that the DMCA and in fact all US laws only apply in the US. Therefore it is now a handicap for information companies - such as Google - to be stationed in the US at all when they are serving the world. Of course they're hardly going to move, but this may well give other startups in the same business to emerge and take over.

People trust search engines because of their reputation as much as their capabilities. Google has until now had a very favorable reputation and hsa benefitted very much from it.

@Link I do believe the DMCA was ratified under Bill Clinton. However if it hadn't been then it would have been ratified under George W.

See it doesn't matter who's in charge it seems.

cheers + a bug F U to the DMCA from the EU

W-Y

[Chuckit]

Interesting. I don't get it either. It seems only to give the warning if you search for Spanish pages only.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by m a d r a

i don't get the warning and i also seem to get a lot more results. [i'm presuming the search term was "space quest pirates atari"]. could it be coz i've got my google prefs set to use irish as the interface language? - maybe if you're using english or spanish it assumes you're in the US?

Hm perhaps it is language related. The name of the game is Space Quest III - Pirates of Pestulon - so I search for "space quest pirates atari".

Now if I try this again I don't get the DMCA message. (???)
Only when I search for "spanish pages only"

This smells.

cheers

W-Y

[PacHead]

Yo, why are you searching in Spanish, unless you deliberately wish to limit your results ?

Try English, the language that makes the world (and the internet) go round.

The same search in english gives you a gazillion more results.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Yo, why are you searching in Spanish, unless you deliberately wish to limit your results ?

Because I want to limit my results to something other than "oops the ESA just called and made me take this game offline" or "oops I can't host this because of the DMCA" etc. etc.

Originally Posted by PacHead

Try English, the language that makes the world (and the internet) go round.

Yeah I did and came up with a whole lot of nothing in this case. If you want freeware, abandonware or just plain old software, search in Spanish, French, German.. in fact ANYTHING but English. Your actual worthwhile results are marginal in the English language. It is a question of the signal/noisie ratio.

The web is full of crap, most of it in English.

Originally Posted by PacHead

The same search in english gives you a gazillion more results.

I repeat: The web is full of crap, most of it in English.

Spanish is the second most common language in the western world and one that I am perfectly comfortable with.

Finally: to search for things you have to know their history. Historically the Atari ST computer was and is today more popular in Germany and France (and the rest of Europe) than it ever was in the USA. Searching for information or games in the major European languages about the Atari ST is the smart thing to do.



cheers

W-Y¡

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

Because I want to limit my results to something other than "oops the ESA just called and made me take this game offline" or "oops I can't host this because of the DMCA" etc. etc.

It seems as if that is exactly the problem you were having while searching in spanish.

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

Finally: to search for things you have to know their history. Historically the Atari ST computer was and is today more popular in Germany and France (and the rest of Europe) than it ever was in the USA. Searching for information or games in the major European languages about the Atari ST is the smart thing to do.

Yeah, I had an atari ST, and I also have lived in Europe, so I know all about that.

Here's a hint for you, since you think you know how to search for things:

While you were wasting your time searching for your game in Spanish (since you know the history so well ), and receiving lame DMCA links, it took me all of 5 seconds to find the game (spacequest 1,2,3,4,5,6) on a non-html platform (edonkey/emule for example)

[Big Mac]

On a similar note, DMCA notices, regardless of their merit, can make providers even in far away countries (such as India) cower in fear. Although I appreciate intellectual property rights, the special interests have caused the concept to transcend its rightful boundaries. There are portions of the DMCA that are beneficial, but those positive attributes are greatly outweighed by poorly crafted companion provisions. And this is one of the circumstances in which American influence is too powerful for anyone's good.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Yes, that was certainly a problem with (1) link in Spanish. Makes me wonder though if they filter out English links without telling us? Meh.

However, as I mentioned in my original post

"At least I found the game.

so I hardly wasted my time searching for it in Spanish.

I just thought it was irritating that the "land of the free" was with its fingers in my business. I owe them no allegience.

The non-html nets are the best for finding "illegal" software but they tend to focus on the more recent stuff. Up until now most of the abandonware has been available in very nice presented html format at sites such as:

http://www.atari.st (for the Atari ST) - or ftp://ftp.cs.tu-berlin.de/pub/atari/ for all the Automation, Medway boys, D-bug and Pompey Pirates menus.

http://www.the-underdogs.org/ (for the Wintels or DOSBox)

http://mac.the-underdogs.org/ (for the Mac)

http://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/ (for the Apple II GS)

http://www.c64.com/ (for the Commodore 64)

the list goes on and all of the above have more or less *all* the games published for the respective platform or information on where to access it with ease.

Until now this has been a far more convenient and nice way to approach the abandonware. The ESA has been hard at work preventing that the old Sierra games are distributed for the PeeCee but not for other platforms.

You had an Atari ST? I know exactly zero Norwegians who do/did. But yeah, all the best Atari ST sites are European. From now on I'll search for ESA protected games on the other nets. Google just used to be so damn convenient.

cheers

W-Y

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

You had an Atari ST? I know exactly zero Norwegians who do/did.

Yeah, I had an ST, though I didn't play many games on it, I mainly used it for music.

A friend of mine, who's Norwegian, owns just about every single Atari ST game ever made, I'm talking about the originals with boxes/manuals, not some downloads or copies. The basement of his house looks like an Atari museum. I haven't spoken to him in awhile, but I believe he still has unopened Atari hardware, still in the box.