[wallinbl]

My wife's cat (I don't care for cats, partly because I am allergic to cats) has a thyroid problem that causes it to eat more and more while losing more and more weight. Eventually, this will kill the cat. The cat's already 12, so it's a bit old. The cat needs a $1000 procedure to fix the thyroid problem. My initial reaction is 'No way!'. But, if you think about it, the alternatives are to let the cat wither and die or to euthanize the cat, neither of which seems like the right thing to do.

[MacNStein]

Cats commonly live to 18-20 years of age, or more. Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to have the procedure done, but then, I love my pets and think of them as family.

Your wife will probably not be too happy if her cat is allowed to die, something to think about.

[turtle777]

If you can afford it, do it. Don't get yourself in outrageous debt for it though.

-t

[Doofy]

I don't know about you, but my cats are fully-fledged members of my family. They'd get the procedure even if I had to go knock over a bank.

[budster101]

You could eat the cat.

Ok, that was a little incensitive. I'd get the procedure. Heck, I already did that and $800 more on top for our puppy when he somehow opened our sliding pantry in the hallway and consumed my wife's medication... it took 5 IVs to get him in the clear. Diamox isn't quite good for dogs. Especially if they eat most of the bottle.

So, I ponied up $1,800 for a dog we found only 6 months earlier. You can find the money to save the cat for maybe up to (according to MacNStein) 6 to 8 more years. Unless you want to let it die, deal with the wife being upset and then getting a kitten to do the training etc. all over again...

:/

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Your wife will probably not be too happy if her cat is allowed to die, something to think about.

What if it were a gerbil? Or a goldfish?

I guess I feel differently about cats than most people do. Cats don't give anything back, so it's hard for me to care.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by budster101

So, I ponied up $1,800 for a dog we found only 6 months earlier. You can find the money to save the cat for maybe up to (according to MacNStein) 6 to 8 more years. Unless you want to let it die, deal with the wife being upset and then getting a kitten to do the training etc. all over again...

If it were a dog, I'd say go for it. Dogs have value.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Cats don't give anything back

I don't know how you can say this. Perhaps you've simply not been observing them enough because of your dislike for them?

I woke up the other morning to find a dead mouse sitting in front of the door. My cats had been in all night and the step was clear the evening before, so it must have been a present from next door's cat. The fact that I don't actually want to eat a dead mouse doesn't mean that the cats aren't trying to give something back and be helpful members of the family (even the ones from next door who're trying to defect).

Another thing I've noticed which may have a bearing on your perception is that cats tend to know whether people like them or not - and then ignore the ones who don't. Like they reflect the love they get back at you or something.

Give them a go, learn to love them and see what you get back.

[-Q-]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

I guess I feel differently about cats than most people do. Cats don't give anything back, so it's hard for me to care.

You just haven't met the right cats. Our cats are far more social than most dogs.

And are you sure the $1000 treatment is the only problem? Our 12 year old cat has a thyroid problem, but it's treated with medication rather than the $1200 procedure our vet recommended. It just requires that she get a pill every morning and she's doing great.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by -Q-

And are you sure the $1000 treatment is the only problem? Our 12 year old cat has a thyroid problem, but it's treated with medication rather than the $1200 procedure our vet recommended. It just requires that she get a pill every morning and she's doing great.

$40/month for the medication times 6 years of remaining life totals $2880. The procedure is cheaper.

[-Q-]

$40? Ouch. Ours is only $10 so it was definitely more economical for us to go that route. Ours is a generic med - maybe that's an option?

Don't envy the cost, but I think I'd do it. I couldn't see that cat suffer and would rather be out the $1,000.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Another thing I've noticed which may have a bearing on your perception is that cats tend to know whether people like them or not - and then ignore the ones who don't. Like they reflect the love they get back at you or something.

There was a time when I would give the cat attention. The problem was that the cat would then demand attention even when you couldn't give it. Being a cat, there was no way to tell it to bug off, so it would keep pushing its nose into my hand while I was trying to write (or whatever I was doing). Plus I'm allergic to the cat, so I have to be careful not to touch my face or anything else between the time that I touch the cat and the time that I wash my hands.

There doesn't seem to be any way to train the cat to quit destroying the couch. It insists on walking around to the back of the couch and climbing up with its claws, tearing the leather as it goes. It could easily get up the front without having to tear stuff up. It craps in the garage even though it has access to the outdoors. It used to try to sleep in the cradle with the baby because of the warmth, and would get itself on the baby's head. You're basically stuck with whatever the cat does because cats aren't trainable.

As far as cats go, it has a great personality. It's a very nice cat, but it's a cat, so it can't be trained.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by -Q-

$40? Ouch. Ours is only $10 so it was definitely more economical for us to go that route. Ours is a generic med - maybe that's an option?

Don't envy the cost, but I think I'd do it. I couldn't see that cat suffer and would rather be out the $1,000.

What's the medication called? I can ask the vet about it.

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Cats don't give anything back, .

nonsense.


I let my 6 year old cat go after three surgeries to attempt to remove a tumor which eventually came back a fourth time. He went through the first 2 procedures very well but really never recovered fully from the 3rd one. He was a most amazing cat, very loving, very smart. It was probably the toughest decision I had to take : but I did it for him.

As far as your cat is concerned, yes some cats live up to 18-20 years, but they are clearly not the majority. I think 15 is the average. The problem here is whether your cat will fully recover and enjoy the life post-surgery, not whether your wife will be happy or sad.

[-Q-]

I'll look at it when I get home from work. It's a generic chemical name so it's not as easy for me to remember as something like claritin or tylenol.

[RAILhead]

You're asking the wrong guy, but $1000 isn't too much to spend on surgery that will "fix" the cat. Since there's a potential 4 to 10 years in its life, if the procedure has a high success rate, it ought to be done.

As for you comment about cats not giving anything back, that's an issue on your end. A dog is so stupid it will like you no matter who you are, but a cat -- you have to earn their respect and affection. Once you do, they're more loyal than a dog, guaranteed. I've had dozens of cats over the years, and all have been total daddy's boys.

Basically, your problem with the cat is due to the fact you haven't given the cat any reason to give a rat's ass about you.

Maury

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

It's a very nice cat, but it's a cat, so it can't be trained.

Trainer's error -- not the cat's.

[wdlove]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

$40/month for the medication times 6 years of remaining life totals $2880. The procedure is cheaper.

I had a dog that was on thyroid medication. It was to slow the progression to blindness. Definitely a generic medication would be the way to proceed.

I'm very sorry to hear about the cat's illness. They do become like family.

[MacNStein]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

What if it were a gerbil? Or a goldfish?

I guess I feel differently about cats than most people do. Cats don't give anything back, so it's hard for me to care.

Maybe the gerbil (doubtful though, living only 2-3 years), but I'd probably flush the fish.

[ebuddy]

There is another concern with aging animals and that's their ability to endure anesthesia. I would ask the vet for information regarding the potential "quality of life" issues. For example;

If there's a 60+% chance the cat cannot endure anesthesia, you may want to euthanize.

If the cat can endure the anesthesia, but surgery has significant failure rate, you may want to euthanize.

Personally? Having spent $900 repairing my dog's torn ligament, I'm in favor of doing what is possible.

[budster101]

When the gerbil gets sick, buy a cat....

Same for the fish.

[MacNStein]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Trainer's error -- not the cat's.

Exactly. I had the same problem, but a spray bottle full of water fixed it in no time.

As for it vrapping in the garage, they make sprays that keep them from going to certain places. Before long they'll avoid the place all together and you won't ever need to spray it again.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Exactly. I had the same problem, but a spray bottle full of water fixed it in no time.

You can drench this cat and it won't care. We went past misting from a spray bottle on to streams of water and even cups. The cat doesn't care.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Maybe the gerbil (doubtful though, living only 2-3 years), but I'd probably flush the fish.

Goldfish and Koi can live 30 years or more.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

You can drench this cat and it won't care. We went past misting from a spray bottle on to streams of water and even cups. The cat doesn't care.

Yep, I have one like that - he'll let me bath him and all sorts. Loves water.

Have you tried simply pointing and shouting "no!" at him when he's doing stuff you don't like? That's how I train my lot up. Works too, they won't jump onto kitchen surfaces or tables.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by ebuddy

There is another concern with aging animals and that's their ability to endure anesthesia. I would ask the vet for information regarding the potential "quality of life" issues. For example;

If there's a 60+% chance the cat cannot endure anesthesia, you may want to euthanize.

If the cat can endure the anesthesia, but surgery has significant failure rate, you may want to euthanize.

Well, the procedure is just an injection of radioactive iodine. There's no cutting or anesthesia involved. I didn't ask about the failure rate.

Originally Posted by ebuddy

Personally? Having spent $900 repairing my dog's torn ligament, I'm in favor of doing what is possible.

I wouldn't have asked if it were my dog. I'd get it done. My dog tore her ACL, but it healed on its own. I had taken her to the vet, but since she's an older lab, the vet assumed that the problem was her hips (x-rays showed some deterioration, so it made some sense). A subsequent annual visit revealed that there was scar tissue around the ACL, and then this most recent visit, he said there was scar tissue there, but that it was now completely healed. The dog hasn't had any trouble walking for a while, and it the timeline all fits for having torn and ACL and walked on it until healed.

[MacNStein]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Goldfish and Koi can live 30 years or more.

not warm blooded though, and they tend to forget everything they know within 15 seconds. Hard to have a close relationship with a pet like that.

Fish swimming circles in it's tank...

Fish: "Wow! Look at that rock! That's new."

15 seconds later...

Fish: "Wow! Look at that rock! That's new."

Though, I wouldn't fault someone for doing it, it's their choice.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Fish swimming circles in it's tank...
Fish: "Wow! Look at that rock! That's new."

15 seconds later...
Fish: "Wow! Look at that rock! That's new.".

Point well taken.

-t

[Dale Sorel]

Originally Posted by Doofy

They'd get the procedure even if I had to go knock over a bank.

Yep

[dreilly1]

About medication: Some vets overcharge for pet medication because they know they can. You should aggressively look aroung the Internet for other sources. It might be that the cost/benefit analysis of surgery vs. long-term meds may change if the meds could be had for 25% cheaper.

Our Golden Retriever has hip displaysia. We've got her on Cosequin (non-prescription), and our vet (who is otherwise excellent, and we would recomment in a heartbeat) charged $80 for a 120-count bottle of the stuff. Online I was able to find 250-count bottles for $80, and a 4-bottle pack for $300 w/ free shipping. The same exact stuff. She's also got a diagnosed anxiety problem that couldn't be trained out of her, and is taking amitryptyline (prescription)for that. The vet doesn't stock that, but our local pharmacy charged $16 for 60 pills, and I was able to find them online for $11 for 100 pills.

Since then, I've been looking around for our dogs' other medicines (heartworm and ear infection medicines), and consistently find prices are 25-40% cheaper online.

I use www.petsnmore.com for the cosequin and just started using www.1800petmeds.com for the amitryptyline.

[Spliff]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

My wife's cat (I don't care for cats, partly because I am allergic to cats) has a thyroid problem that causes it to eat more and more while losing more and more weight. Eventually, this will kill the cat. The cat's already 12, so it's a bit old. The cat needs a $1000 procedure to fix the thyroid problem. My initial reaction is 'No way!'. But, if you think about it, the alternatives are to let the cat wither and die or to euthanize the cat, neither of which seems like the right thing to do.

Hyper-thyroidism is common in older cats and vets are seeing an increase in cases, especially among younger cats. The cause is unknown, but commercial pet food is a prime suspect. Both my cats developed hyper-thyroidism. Both were treated with radioactive iodine and both were cured (the cure rate is something like 95% - 97%). These days, $1000 isn't a lot to spend on veterinary care for a dog or cat. If you have pet health insurance, you can recoup most of the costs.

[The Windozer]

Next time your wife gets a cat, make sure it's male and that it's uncastrated. It will run away long before it gets old enough for geriatric diseases.

Also, is radioactive iodine used as medication? I thought it was just used for diagnosis.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by The Windozer

Next time your wife gets a cat

That will never happen. The biggest problem I have with the cat is that I'm allergic to it. It really sucks to have an allergen living in your house and sleeping on your pillow. I'm not at all interested in having another cat in the house. I look forward to breathing through my nose while at home (although it could apparently be six more years for that).

[Mastrap]

If you have pets, get pet insurance.

[RAILhead]

ude, they make medicine for that, you know. It's called Zyrtec.

[typoon]

I'm allergic to cats and dogs but I love'em both. Go figure. Anyway for me the OTC stuff like Claritin works. My Girlfriend has a cat that I've actually gotten used to and am not allergic to it anymore.

[-Q-]

Most vets won't take it b/c they see what insurance has done to the medical indsutry. They can make a lot more money w/out insurance.

[Spliff]

Originally Posted by The Windozer

Also, is radioactive iodine used as medication? I thought it was just used for diagnosis.

The medication is called Tapazol. Radioactive iodine is administer to the cat. The thyroid loves iodine, so it absorbs most of it and the radiation kills the benign tumor that is causing the hyperthyroidism. The iodine and radioactive material is excreted through the urine and feces over the next couple of weeks. Cats are quarantined for a week at the vet. Once they're home, you just have to wear gloves when you change the litter box.

[KeriVit]

OK, I have 3 dogs and a cat. In the last ten years, tack on 2 more dogs and 2 more cats.... I'm gonna get **** for this, but the way I see it, if they are not suffering, I would have to let them go. I personally have a thyroid problem, and I have been treated (with radioactive iodine), but my animals? Geez, if they are their upper years, I would not get a treatment.

Now, don't get me wrong, I LOVE my animals, but they are my pets, for me to prolong their lives for me is just wrong. If my pet is in pain, I would do anything, suffering, yes, but to spend money for a few months of my own satisfaction, is not my idea of correct.

oh, I know how callous this sounds, but, historically speaking you WILL outlive your pets.

[ghporter]

I not only WOULD have the procedure done, I HAVE had the procedure done.

Last fall our 16 year old black cat was getting thinner and thinner and the vet's tests said hyperthyroidism. Cats' thyroids are pretty small to begin with, so surgery is out of the question. We cashed some savings bonds and trotted him off to the nuclear-vet. She did the procedure, and his thyroid was reduced to its normal size in days-and the cat started putting on weight, growing in a nice sleek coat, and otherwise getting healthy again.

Then, about a month later, he started having some blood in his urine. It turned out that while we were fighting the thyroid problem, a bladder cancer had grabbed the poor guy and eaten almost all of his bladder. The nuclear vet imaged him for FREE (that's about a $400 procedure) because she was so upset that nobody had caught the bladder problem.

We took him in to our home vet the next day-while he was only a little uncomfortable-and said "goodbye." Our wonderful vet, tears in HER eyes, euthanised Simba for us so that he would not suffer any more.

We still miss him, and we'd do it all again in a red hot minute.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Spliff

The medication is called Tapazol. Radioactive iodine is administer to the cat. The thyroid loves iodine, so it absorbs most of it and the radiation kills the benign tumor that is causing the hyperthyroidism. The iodine and radioactive material is excreted through the urine and feces over the next couple of weeks. Cats are quarantined for a week at the vet. Once they're home, you just have to wear gloves when you change the litter box.

In addition, the only part of the thyroid that takes up the radioactive iodine is the abnormal part. The normal cells see that there's plenty of thyroid hormone in the blood and just go on vacation, so only the bad cells are active and using iodine. The iodine is metabolized out of the cat pretty quickly, so there's little residual when the bad cells are dead, and the normal cells aren't really affected even then.

[RAILhead]

Yes, of course -- if the animal is suffering, it should be put down.

[The Godfather]

Just take the money from your computer budget and enjoy your G4 for another 3 years.

[tracemhunter]

after a cat gets an operation of any sort done, it usually is not the same...mentally, especially after popping out a few kittens. if the animal is in constant pain or is a burden financially, i would not hesitate to put it down. dont keep it alive for your pleasure and its pain.

[tavilach]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

A dog is so stupid it will like you no matter who you are, but a cat -- you have to earn their respect and affection.

My poodle ain't stupid.

As for the main question, I wouldn't even give it a moment's thought. I'd sell every luxury I owned before letting my dog die. None of the crap I have means more to me than she does.

...but that's assuming that this didn't involve her suffering.

[Spliff]

Originally Posted by tracemhunter

after a cat gets an operation of any sort done, it usually is not the same...mentally, especially after popping out a few kittens. if the animal is in constant pain or is a burden financially, i would not hesitate to put it down. dont keep it alive for your pleasure and its pain.

Yeah, but cats don't need an operation to cure hyperthyroidism. They just receive the radioactive iodine intravenously.

Symptoms of hyperthyroidism in cats are weight loss, increased appetite and urination, howling at night, atypical behaviour (for your cat), accelerated heart beat. If left untreated too long, it can cause permanent damage to the heart muscle and other organs.

Most people don't notice their cat is sick. Many house cats are overweight and so the weight loss is seen as a good thing. "Finally the diet is working and Peeps is losing weight." But they keep losing weight.

People will happily spend $1000 on a new TV or car repairs or a sofa, but when it comes to their pets, many people suddenly balk. I don't understand this. New TV or four more years of life for my cat? I'll go with the cat every time.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by tracemhunter

dont keep it alive for your pleasure and its pain.

That is the hard part. And it's what separates people who have pets because they love them from people who have living fashion accessories.

[wallinbl]

For the first two weeks upon returning home.
1. Keep your cat indoors or under direct supervision or a leash if outside. The concern is that you not allow your cat to expose other people if they roam.
2. We advise close contact (closer than 1 foot) should be limited to one hour per day.
3. Do not put the litter into the trash prior to 80 days as it may set off radiation detectors, which would result in a significant fine to you.
4. Wash your hands carefully after handling your cat, its food dishes or litter pan.
5. Do not allow children or pregnant women to have contact with your cat.

Must I isolate my kitty when she (or he) comes home?

You cannot hold your cat on your lap for more than a few minutes/day when she first comes home. But she can stay in the room with you as long as she is at least 3 feet away from you.

Uh, great. So the cat will become a health threat to my children.

What is the oldest cat you have treated?

20 years old

It was 20! It probably lived another three months. What was the point?


I dunno. I'm still undecided. It's just a freaking cat.

[nredman]

i would pay for the procedure if the cat was still young and had alot of years to live. i pay alot now for my cat with food, toys, litter, vet visits. my cat shadow had to get "unclogged" a few years ago...so i get him that more expensive better for him food...which is fine. he is worth it, a part of the family, now if i could only remember to clean his litter box more often

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

not warm blooded though, and they tend to forget everything they know within 15 seconds. Hard to have a close relationship with a pet like that.

Fish swimming circles in it's tank...

Fish: "Wow! Look at that rock! That's new."

15 seconds later...

Fish: "Wow! Look at that rock! That's new."

Though, I wouldn't fault someone for doing it, it's their choice.

I once made a half hour video of tropical fish swimming around in a big beautifully clean pet store aquarium. I synched instrumental Christmas music to it and titled it, "Do Fish Know It's Christmastime?"

A good friend of mine told me, "Of COURSE they don't! Their attention spans are only 15 seconds."

I said nothing, but was amused that HE thought that I thought a fish knew it was Christmastime.

It was broadcast on the local cable tv community access channel. People I didn't know when they heard me talking about the show said they watched it.

Ok. Back to the topic.

This is a spiritual test for you.

When you meet up with the BIG guy, will you be happy or proud or embarrassed at admitting what you decide to do?

Here on earth, will your honey be able to brag to her friends about the wonderful thing you did ESPECIALLY since you are allergic to him?

Oh, and I think some of the posters missed the part where you said the cat USED to try to make friends with you. He bugged you while you were working. (a sure sign of Kitty affection and not taking NO for an answer is a nother sure sign. You got the message but it didn't sink in maybe because you were afraid you'd get allergic, so you just kept the cat at bay - physically and emotionally.

He showed you all the love he could.

EDIT: I just read your post that said, "It's just a freaking cat."

My advice is to recuse yourself from deciding the cat's fate. You don't see it as a living breathing loving creature. Like a parent who puts their child up for adoption because it's the best thing for the child, consider some quiet tactful way of getting the word out to organizations that provide humane options in situations such as this, so that you will not have this on your conscience and the cat will have someone who values him to decide if it lives or dies.