[turtle777]

WTF ?

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/...35/detail.html

One more reason to ban guns. Yeah, I know, guns don't kill people, people do. Bla bla bla.

Well, once again:



-t

[chris v]

No, mean people kill other people all over the world, every day.

Still, sad.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by chris v

No, mean people kill other people all over the world, every day.

Over dirty dishes ?

Originally Posted by chris v

Still, sad.

Very much so.

-t

[dialo]

Originally Posted by turtle777

Over dirty dishes ?

Over less than that

BTW, people kill people. guns just make it easier

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by turtle777

One more reason to ban guns.

No. Ban non-disposable plates.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by dialo

BTW, people kill people. guns just make it easier

BTW, so why make it eqasier ?

-t

[Dale Sorel]

Another reason to go with paper plates

[DeathMan]

Why take away a constitutional right?

We can't control the drug problem, what makes you think we'd be able to control gun possession? Germany doesn't have a gun problem, but its because of the culture, not the anti-gun laws (though I do admit that laws might help maintain that culture). I'm not sure banning guns would stop shootings. Insisting that people take responsibility for their actions, however, might.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by turtle777

Over dirty dishes ?

Often for even more absurd issues than dirty dishes. Do you really think that this person wouldn't have killed his wife if he hadn't had a gun?

[mojo2]

Two takes...

1) ANYONE who watches Dr. Phil HAS to be off their rocker.

2) She was ignoring him (Strike one), she had no right to be sitting there when her husband wanted the dishes clean (Strike two) and why did she have to be told in the FIRST place? (Strike three)

That's just nasty.









OK, ok, ok...yes, he may have over reacted a bit.

I'm keeeding, I'm keeeding.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by turtle777

WTF ?

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/...35/detail.html
-t

This is classic white-trash domestic abuse. From the article:


"Petrie said he asked his wife, Jessica, why there were still dirty dishes in the sink. She told him she would "get to them," angering her husband, who felt he was being ignored, police said.

That's when Petrie took a .22-caliber gun and shot his wife in the head, police said.

Jessica Petrie died about 10 hours later at Ruby Memorial Hospital in Morgantown, W.Va.

Petrie said he never meant to shoot his wife and was only trying to get her attention."

Yeah, like everybody gets their spouses ateention by shooting them in the head.

Although, it may sound cruel, being a dead 17-year-old married to this guy means she doesn't grow up to endure a lifetime of physical abuse at his hands.

[Goldfinger]

17-year old wife ? wtf.

[Eug Wanker]

Petrie said he never meant to shoot his wife and was only trying to get her attention.

"I don't believe he knew the gun was loaded," said defense attorney David DeFazio, who called the shooting a "tragic, senseless event."

1) ANYONE who watches Dr. Phil HAS to be off their rocker.

Agreed.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Often for even more absurd issues than dirty dishes. Do you really think that this person wouldn't have killed his wife if he hadn't had a gun?

What the heck are you talking about ?
I don't think it can get more absurd. Absurd is maxed out here.
At this point, everything is just absurd, but not MORE absurd...

-t

[Sky Captain]

Originally Posted by turtle777

WTF ?

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/...35/detail.html

One more reason to ban guns. Yeah, I know, guns don't kill people, people do. Bla bla bla.

Well, once again:



-t

A mang beat his wife to death with a hammer for trying to get him to come to bed instead of watching sports.

Even more reason to ban hammers.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

A mang beat his wife to death with a hammer for trying to get him to come to bed instead of watching sports.

Even more reason to ban hammers.

You're comparing apples with oranges.

A hammer's primary purpose is not to kill, but to hammer stuff.

A gun's only purpose is to kill.

[Eriamjh]

I'd have to kill my wife every day.

[pooka]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

A gun's only purpose is to kill.

And to impress chicks. Duh.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

You're comparing apples with oranges.

A hammer's primary purpose is not to kill, but to hammer stuff.

A gun's only purpose is to kill.

Actually a gun's purpose is to have so there WONT be anyone killed.

It's for protection.

And a lot of the time, if someone knows that person is carrying. They wont even bother.

A gun says more at the side, than in the hand.

And yes, this type of thing America does not have a monopoly on.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

You're comparing apples with oranges.

A hammer's primary purpose is not to kill, but to hammer stuff.

A gun's only purpose is to kill.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

I'd have to kill my wife every day.

I'd be killed by my fiancee every day.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Actually a gun's purpose is to have so there WONT be anyone killed.

It's for protection.

I am sorry, but I don't understand. Are you arguing that the purpose of a gun is not to kill? Then how, if it doesn't carry that implicit threat, does it offer the bearer any kind of protection?

[Kevin]

I am saying the purpose of one carrying a gun on them is not to kill.

It's to protect those from getting killed.

More times than not, a gun doesn't need to be fired to be threatening.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Kevin

No Mastrap, I am saying the purpose of one carrying a gun on them is not to kill.

It's to make sure no one gets killed.

In which case it seems to me you didn't understand what I was saying. I never talked about the bearer's intention. I talked about the gun's purpose.

[Kevin]

Mastrap the gun's purpose is what the owner makes of it.

[Mastrap]

Nonsense. Certain tools are designed for certain tasks. Guns are designed for killing, not for baking bread or for fixing gutters.

Note that I do not say that this is always a bad thing. It depends on the situation the bearer is in. A police officer acting in self defence needs the most effective killing tool available. So does a soldier.

[Gankdawg]

Originally Posted by DeathMan

Insisting that people take responsibility for their actions, however, might.

This is the correct answer.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Nonsense. Certain tools are designed for certain tasks. Guns are designed for killing, not for baking bread or for fixing gutters.

Ah you went from purpose, to design. The gun is INDEED designed to be able to stop someone if needed be.

But the PURPOSE is protection.

People aren't given gun permits to kill people.

They are given them so they can protect themselves. Which is the purpose of the gun.

[ghporter]

That piece of filth would have stove in her head with a frying pan if he didn't have the gun. It just AIN'T about guns-it's about low-life scum who misuse ANYTHING to commit unspeakable acts.

I'd like to have some unspeakable act happen to Mr. Perpetrator. It's a good thing they didn't have kids (they didn't, did they? It's not in the article). Those scum genes haven't been passed on.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by turtle777

Over dirty dishes ?


Very much so.

-t

This had nothing to do with dirty dishes. If it hadn't been the dishes, it would have been over something else. This was all about a controlling husband who thought that violence solves everything.

[Kenneth]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

17-year old wife ? wtf.

This got my attention.

[davesimondotcom]

WTF?

Why does one assclown's behavior become a statement about gun control and some sort of negative image of America?

As if nobody gets murdered anywhere else. This guy is a jerk. He would have beat the crap out of this poor girl (yes, girl) until he got tired of her and traded her in on a new model of punching bag.

And if it weren't a gun, it would have been a dirty steak knife or frying pan.

[chris v]

Originally Posted by KarlG

This had nothing to do with dirty dishes. If it hadn't been the dishes, it would have been over something else. This was all about a controlling husband who thought that violence solves everything.

Exactly.

It's pathological. I have seen women in abusive relationships, who were afraid to leave for fear of their lives. Never known anyone to actually die of it, but this crap seems to go on in more homes than we'd like to admit, as a society. It's a bad problem. Who knows how many times before that he'd put the gun to her head for other "infringements." It's a living hell for these women, and they're killed quite often. The world is full of brutes, and civilized society has a tremendous capacity to look the other way. Who here has heard a *thump* and screams from the apartment next door, and figured it was just an argument? We're all culpable in this woman's death.

Why can't some men realize they can keep a wife by being loving and kind? Why do homes have to become prisons? I just don't get it. Sorry for the rant, but this sh*t really gets to me.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by mojo2

she had no right to be sitting there when her husband wanted the dishes clean

Get off your punk ass and do them yourself, you lazy git.

[Tenacious Dyl]

When he was 17.... she was 7. See a problem? Why does he need a gun? Oh wait... I bet it saved HIS wonderful life lots of times (on his side not in his hand) from being shot by equal loser scum who had guns too. I'm glad it gave him protection through all of those years...10 more than his wife.... so he could kill her.

(sarcasm and disgust to losers who need guns and losers who not only marry *girls* not women, but then to beat... and murder them)

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Get off your punk ass and do them yourself, you lazy git.

("And curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get...")

I'd say you're putting me on,

But it's no joke, it's doing me harm, you know I can't sleep

I can't stop my brain, you know it's three weeks, I'm going insane

You know I'd give you everything I've got for a little peace of mind

Give you everything I've got for a little peace of mind

I have to do EVERYTHING around here, already!

I have to choose the TV shows to watch and I have to load the gun and the LEAST she could do is the deeshes, SHE is the lazy one!

Little biotch!

And YOU mind your own business!

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Tenacious Dyl

(sarcasm and disgust to losers who need guns....)

Tenacious I hope in your lifetime, no one ever pulls a gun on you.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Tenacious I hope in your lifetime, no one ever pulls a gun on you.

I think Tenacious was making a distinction between low-lifes who feel "like a man" when they have a gun, as opposed to people in dangerous professions or situations, wherein having a gun as a tool can mean the difference between life and death. At least that's what I hope, because there is a huge difference between the two.

My wife worked in the newborn nursery in "the county hospital" here for a long time. It was incredibly depressing for her to see how many little girls were there having babies-and even second and THIRD babies. Most of the fathers were adult men who obviously had a pathological problem dealing with real women so they turned to girls. That's a different kind of low-life.

[Tenacious Dyl]

Correct, I have no problem with people who must carry a gun for their profession, or in some cases where it is actually needed for their protection. Other than those situations there really is no need to carry one, it boils down to a lot of paranoia, wanna be tough guys, and losers who need guns to be listened to.

Kevin: On the chance someone might pull a gun on me one day... I think I will go get one right now! Yes! That is the answer! Now me and my assaulter BOTH have the option to kill. And maybe when he wants my wallet, instead of losing a little money and cancelling some cards, I can think irrationally, and possibly shoot him! In self defense! And maybe before dieing or running off, he can shoot me too! We can all shoot each other! And flash our guns for protection!

Ok... I will agree that in a lot of cultures around the world, it is very common to have a gun and no harm comes from it. But I am so sick of these people with no good reason to have one except that oh, someone else might have one, and ohhhh my defense I need one too. Unless you also are a lowlife or involved in drugs, etc, you will not be hunted down and shot by someone. The few people a year who get shot out of no where, pretty sure more people a year die from freak accidents and lightning, and that these situations, or at least some could be prevented by clearer thinking and not just more guns. Why keep holding this attitude of a gun is protection, when really all it is, is the threat of death to someone else.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Tenacious Dyl

it boils down to a lot of paranoia, wanna be tough guys, and losers who need guns to be listened to.

Listen Tenacious I myself do not own a gun. Never have. Don't need one where I live.

But if I lived in a BIGGER city with MORE crime. I indeed would get one. I would also get a permit to carry one with me.

This is not paranoia. This is being smart.

Kevin: On the chance someone might pull a gun on me one day... I think I will go get one right now! Yes! That is the answer! Now me and my assaulter BOTH have the option to kill. And maybe when he wants my wallet, instead of losing a little money and cancelling some cards, I can think irrationally, and possibly shoot him! In self defense! And maybe before dieing or running off, he can shoot me too! We can all shoot each other! And flash our guns for protection!

Most of the time a gun doesn't need to be shot to do it's work.

And a lot of people who rob others, will shoot them so they can't identify them.

But I am so sick of these people with no good reason to have one except that oh, someone else might have one, and ohhhh my defense I need one too. Unless you also are a lowlife or involved in drugs, etc, you will not be hunted down and shot by someone.

Tell that to a gal I knew that was shot in the head in her own front yard by a drunk that thought she was his ex wife.

And it doesn't matter what you are SICK of. If someone wants to legally own a gun. That is their right.

There are a lot of things I am sick of also. But I deal with it.

[Miniryu]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Tenacious I hope in your lifetime, no one ever pulls a gun on you.

I hate to enter this debate as I don't particularly favor one side or the other, but I have to call out the bull$#!+ when I see it:

It is illegal to carry a concealed weapon, and I seriously doubt you do. But assuming you do anyway, how is that going to help you when someone pulls a gun on you? You don't live in the movies- you are not going to see them reaching for their weapon then whips yours out first. If a criminal pulls a gun on you the chances are they are far better at using it than you are, so it doesn't matter if you have one or not.

Second, I have had a gun pulled on me before. Guns are for b!tches, period. I was my shift to watch the door at a party my fraternity was having. We didn't let this wanna be thug from the local high school in (he was obviously too young to be in college) so he flashed a gun he had tucked into his belt. My friend who was with me knew what was up, called the guy's bluff and told him to gt the hell out of there. And he did. The kid was a b!tch and even though he owned a gun it was all for show.

My point is that people carry guns because it offers them mental security, not practical security.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Miniryu

It is illegal to carry a concealed weapon, and I seriously doubt you do.

No, if you have a permit, you can indeed carry one. And no I don't. I don't need one.

Don't believe me?

http://www.packing.org/

But assuming you do anyway, how is that going to help you when someone pulls a gun on you? You don't live in the movies- you are not going to see them reaching for their weapon then whips yours out first. If a criminal pulls a gun on you the chances are they are far better at using it than you are, so it doesn't matter if you have one or not.

Very good point. But I know guys that have gotten out of the situation when say, handing the perp over your wallet.. That happened to in your coat....

You get the picture.

Second, I have had a gun pulled on me before. Guns are for b!tches, period.

No, people who pull guns on people for any reason but defense are bitches.

I was my shift to watch the door at a party my fraternity was having. We didn't let this wanna be thug from the local high school in (he was obviously too young to be in college) so he flashed a gun he had tucked into his belt. My friend who was with me knew what was up, called the guy's bluff and told him to gt the hell out of there. And he did. The kid was a b!tch and even though he owned a gun it was all for show.

Yes, the way that punk used his gun was very bitch like. You'll get no arguments from me.

My point is that people carry guns because it offers them mental security, not practical security.

This could be true too. No argument. But facts remain.

[Miniryu]

Originally Posted by Kevin

No, if you have a permit, you can indeed carry one. And no I don't. I don't need one.

Don't believe me?

http://www.packing.org/

I wasn't aware of this. My bad. I still wouldn't consider it wise to do so. Carring a gun gives the other person a reason to shoot.

My family is from Richmond, CA. Anyone from the Bay Area knows that this is currently the most dangerous city in Northern California, and while I can't back up the claim I will say that it is on par with L.A. (having a brother who lives in Compton and a friend from Watts). Carrying a gun in these cities is asking to get shot, as opposed to just getting robbed. Thugs travel in packs- and when they rob you they will be with other guys. That little gun-in-your-coat trick is just fantasy (watching too much t.v.) and if it ever worked in real life (which I don't believe it had) then it was a chance occurrence.

It has always been my belief that guns served a practical self-defense purpose in small towns in the midwest where there are no police officers. But just like you have no experience in big cities I have none in small towns, so I don't know if this is true.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Miniryu

It is illegal to carry a concealed weapon, and I seriously doubt you do. But assuming you do anyway, how is that going to help you when someone pulls a gun on you? You don't live in the movies- you are not going to see them reaching for their weapon then whips yours out first. If a criminal pulls a gun on you the chances are they are far better at using it than you are, so it doesn't matter if you have one or not.

My sympathy for living in a state that infringes on your rights so badly, but California is not the universe. It is (as you've found) legal in most states not only to own and use firearms, but to carry concealed handguns with proper licensing. Further, what gives you the idea that a thug who has a gun has any skill with it at all? Your later point about them being "b!tches" seems to indicate that you have little respect for them as human beings... In any case, research shows that almost all street hoods with guns feel that just having one in their possession makes them supermen. They're chumps, they are likely completely unskilled in the use of the weapons they may have, and they are almost certainly at least as scared as the people they mess with.

Originally Posted by Miniryu

Second, I have had a gun pulled on me before. Guns are for b!tches, period. I was my shift to watch the door at a party my fraternity was having. We didn't let this wanna be thug from the local high school in (he was obviously too young to be in college) so he flashed a gun he had tucked into his belt. My friend who was with me knew what was up, called the guy's bluff and told him to gt the hell out of there. And he did. The kid was a b!tch and even though he owned a gun it was all for show.

QED. Said punk was 100% nothing, with or without a gun-assuming it was a real gun. Being trumped by someone who was unarmed is all the proof needed.

Originally Posted by Miniryu

My point is that people carry guns because it offers them mental security, not practical security.

SOME PEOPLE carry guns for mental security. These people are most likely NOT licensed to do so-considering that just about every state that licenses carrying requires a significant classroom course in the how/what/when/why of using deadly force and impresses on each student how serious the responsibility of having the ability to use deadly force really is-and likely as not is almost as unskilled as the criminals discussed above.

Miniryu, your personal experience has been in a part of the U.S. that is to say the least atypical. Verifiable scientific research has shown that criminals DO NOT target homes, businesses, or individuals who they think are armed. The implementation of concealed carry in Florida, for example, has apparently almost by itself significantly reduced personal crimes (crimes perpetrated on individuals) significantly.

<<deleted long rant about the government of the Great State of California and its policies and other idiocies>>

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ghporter

The implementation of concealed carry in Florida, for example, has apparently almost by itself significantly reduced personal crimes (crimes perpetrated on individuals) significantly.

I read about that. Good for them. And yes, people who THINK you are armed wont bother.

Where I live (A small town) I don't even lock my house doors when I leave. Crime is that low.

I have no need for a gun.

But If I ever did, I would indeed take classes, learn to shoot etc before I even though about purchasing one.

Wouldn't want to shoot an eye out.

[loki74]

This whole "guns are made only to kill" type thing... um, you won't die if you get shot in the leg, you know. It's a weapon. A weapon is a tool. It can be used to kill, (shoot in the head) to disable (shoot in the leg) or defend (scare away bad guys).

Ultimately, the gun did not fire itself. That man made a conscious decision to squeeze that trigger. It was his choice. No one elses. Who's to say he wouldn't have just as easily came at her with a knife?

I would support gun control if there was an ongoing epidemic of guns randomly fireing off, or being ridiculously sensitive, or blowing up for no reason... all that stuff is things that the owner cannot control. But the owner (or someone who otherwise has access) must make a consious decision to shoot. They choose how to use that tool.

Case and point: It IS people who kill. PEOPLE. That's why we need to have harsh punishment. Its the exact same liberal types who say that we should ban guns that want us to go easy on CONVICTED rapists and murderers, some of whom confess IN DETAIL the disgusting, vile, subhuman things they do. Something must be done to fix this thing here in America. But its not getting rid of guns. Killers kill. Lets crack down on them for a change, instead of innocent collecters/enthusiasts/people who really do use a gun for the sake of self defense.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by loki74

Bla bla bla...: It IS people who kill. PEOPLE. bla bla bla.

What I don't get is this: the US is one of the leading country in violent crimes.
Why make it even easier by allowing guns ?

-t

[Jacob]

No weapons=no war

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by turtle777

What I don't get is this: the US is one of the leading country in violent crimes.
Why make it even easier by allowing guns ?

Because that will not solve the problem; people who are violent will either commit violence by other means or -more likely- simply ignore the law. This will put people who choose to obey the law in greater danger from those who choose to disobey it than they would be if there were no law in the first place, because obedience implies relative defenselessness. The purpose of law is to protect people, and so gun control is an inherently Bad Thing to enshrine in law. If there are to be fewer guns in society, then the issue needs to be tackled by other means. Perhaps society should be left to solve society's problems, rather than trying to ram it through by using government?

I don't have any guns. I don't need, or even particularly want, any guns. I know that I will be inheriting some antique guns at some point in my life, but I intend to take these to a gunsmith and have the firing pins removed when this occurs. I'll put the firing pins in a safe-deposit box so that they can be put back in if the need arises, and then put the guns in a secure display case.

Of course, not having guns entails some risks. I cannot eliminate those risks completely, but I have means of mitigating them to a level I deem acceptable for myself and those I love, and so I choose to accept those risks. However, there are some -perhaps many- who are unable or unwilling to do this, and that choice should not be made for them. This is why I oppose gun control and support the right to self-defense. Criminals should not be simply legally given the high ground in a defensive situation.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Jacob

No weapons=no war

Yeah, right. Aside from the problem of simply improvising weapons -that's the way it used to be done, after all- there are several species of apes which have been observed making highly organized war on each other, and they use no weapons at all.

Taking away the tools people use to commit violence will not stop them from committing it. If you want to stop them, you must take away either the ability or desire to act at all. There are times when one or the other of these won't work, and the trick is being able to tell which method is best to use when.