[Cody Dawg]

Apparently more and more restaurants are automatically adding a "gratuity surcharge" which is a fancy way of saying that they are going to tack on an extra 20% to your cheque or restaurant food bill as a way of paying their waitstaff.

I, for one, think that's a crock.

If they are going to do that then raise the price of the food across the board and increase their wages, you know? Don't force me, the customer, to tip for service that though it might be good, is frequently bad. As a matter of fact, if there is no incentive for the waitstaff to do a good job waiting on us because they get tipped regardless of their service, then they'll probably do a shoddy job of it.

Next, I despise the idea of being forced to tip for service. That's not supposed to be the norm in this country.

Lastly, sometimes I tip MORE than 20% and their server is going to miss out. Case in point: Last night we went to the local Italian restaurant and our cheque was $38. I gave him a $50 bill and told him to keep the change.

What do any of you think? If restaurants start charging an automatic 20% surcharge for their own servers to wait on you will you be happy about it?

Or, like me, will you avoid the restaurant completely?

[Cubeoid]

Next, I despise the idea of being forced to tip for service. That's not supposed to be the norm in this country.

hehehheheheh.

[Cody Dawg]

Yes, that's correct.

Overseas that's fine. That's what they do. They charge more for food also. I think that if they are going to start adding a 20% "surcharge" then they should do away with tipping completely and just do what other countries do: Pay a decent working wage.

[thunderous_funker]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Yes, that's correct.

Overseas that's fine. That's what they do. They charge more for food also. I think that if they are going to start adding a 20% "surcharge" then they should do away with tipping completely and just do what other countries do: Pay a decent working wage.

Tips are not obligatory or they cease to be a "tip".

[budster101]

That always bugged me abut eating out. Why can't they pay a waiter/waitress $15/hour or whatever the rate should be and leave us out of the equation?

It's like beggin almost... Is it that the tip is an insurance policy? If they work hard, fill the water glass, etc. they'll get a good tip?

I maybe understand with parties over 10 or 15 to automatically add a percentage maybe, but not for a small group of 2, 4, 6 or even 8. (I don't mean to dis odd numbers, I just don't like them... )

[Cubeoid]

I vow never to return to a place with sub standard service, I'd include this crap under the umbrella of restaurant shame. Turn your back and never return, opt for smaller restaurants driven by the desire to survive and make good meals from the heart, {you may have to be more open in food choices} rather then filthy bastards who want to increase their profile and reach the ranks of restaurantia elitia.

[Cody Dawg]

You're right, Cubeoid.

In fact, the worst perpetrators are the chain or franchise restaurants.

[dreilly1]

There was a NY Times editorial on this a few days ago which offers a different perspective.... ahh, here it is:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/10/op...2fContributors

Rather, customers are likely to tip more in response to servers touching them lightly and crouching next to the table to make conversation than to how often their water glass is refilled - in other words, customers tip more when they like the server, not when the service is good. (Mr. Lynn's studies also indicate that male customers increase their tips for female servers while female customers increase their tips for male servers.)

What's more, consumers seem to forget that the tip increases as the bill increases. Thus, the tipping system is an open invitation to what restaurant professionals call "upselling": every bottle of imported water, every espresso and every cocktail is extra money in the server's pocket. Aggressive upselling and hustling for tips are often rewarded while low-key, quality service often goes unrecognized.

In addition, the practice of tip pooling, which is the norm in fine-dining restaurants and is becoming more common in every kind of restaurant above the level of a greasy spoon, has gutted whatever effect voting with your tip might have had on an individual waiter. In a perverse outcome, you are punishing the good waiters in the restaurant by not tipping the bad one.

It echoes many of my views about tipping. People think that it's a reward for good service, and in a market-driven economy, it will provide incentive for wait staff to do batter. But in practial use, it provides nothing of the sort -- it's just an excuse for management to pay their employees less, and the good wait staff often gets shafted. Do you really think that if resturants in the U.S. go to a "service charge" model, that the bad wait staff won't get disciplined?

(incidentally, in 95% of the cases when a "market-driven solution" is proposed for something, I believe it turns out to be just a ploy to keep the people in control of the market in power. But that's a differnet thread...)

[Cubeoid]

This whole tipping thing has really messed with people's heads. It used to be natural, tip for "exceptional" service, now peole number crunch, waiter competition turns the thing over again, then people stop focusing on their meal and become sick. I want to run a restuarant.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I think that if they are going to start adding a 20% "surcharge" then they should do away with tipping completely and just do what other countries do: Pay a decent working wage.

That's why waiting tables is a viable career in places like Italy and France. You'll get real pros serving you, not kids trying to make it through college.

[waxcrash]

I've never heard of restaurants automatically adding gratuity, except when the party is over a certain size as budster mentioned.

I think this "gratuity surcharge" maybe just be a Florida phenomenon. Florida has a large geriatric and tourist population. In my experience, old people and tourist usually don't tip well. Maybe the restaurants are getting sick of bad tips and have resorted to implementing this policy to protect their wait staff.

[Cubeoid]

If a restuarant gets sick of anything they should close the ____ up and let somebody else open one.

[Salty]

I would never eat at a place that forced me to tip. I generally tip over 15 percent and I'd be insulted for anyone to tell me how much I should be tipping. I've tipped as much as a third on some of my meals because I liked my server.

[thunderous_funker]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

That's why waiting tables is a viable career in places like Italy and France. You'll get real pros serving you, not kids trying to make it through college.

college kids? Man, its been a loooooooong time since I've seen anything but out of work actors and overworked middle-aged women on the edge.

[videian28]

I tip well if the service good regardless of the quality of the food (to a point of course)

If the service is utter crap, the tip will reflect that. I will not eat in a place where I am forced to tip for crappy service....which happens all to often

[ReggieX]

I usually go to a few bars/restaurants regularly. The servers know me and my friends, and at one place in particular, will automatically pour and bring our first and second beers. She gets a good tip every time, because that's service.

[Millennium]

I can see automatically adding such a surcharge for huge parties; the amount of work involved in serving a large party goes up much faster than the number of people being served, and there ought to be some recognition of that fact. However, this has been the norm at restaurants for many years, and so I'm not sure if this is really what you're talking about. Are you saying that restaurants are starting to do this for small parties too?

[ASIMO]

Are we actually coming to an accord on something on the MacNN Lounge? Folks, mark this day. Celebrate.

[Chuckit]

Best scene ever:

Nice Guy Eddie: C’mon, throw in a buck!

Mr. Pink: Uh-uh, I don’t tip.

Nice Guy Eddie: You don’t tip?

Mr. Pink: I don’t believe in it.

Nice Guy Eddie: You don’t believe in tipping?

Mr. Blue: You know what these chicks make? They make ****.

Mr. Pink: Don’t give me that. She don’t make enough money, she can quit.

Nice Guy Eddie: I don’t even know a ****ing Jew who’d have the balls to say that. Let me get this straight: you never ever tip, huh?

Mr. Pink: I don’t tip because society says I have to. Alright, I tip when somebody really deserves a tip. If they put forth an effort, I’ll give them something extra. But I mean, this tipping automatically, that’s for the birds. As far as I’m concerned they’re just doing their job.

Mr. Blue: Hey, this girl was nice.

Mr. Pink: She was okay. But she wasn’t anything special.

Mr. Blue: What special? Take you in the back and suck your dick?

Nice Guy Eddie: I’d go over twelve percent for that.

Mr. Pink: Hey Look, I ordered coffee, right? Now we’ve been here a long ****in time, and she’s only filled my cup three times. When I order coffee, I want it filled six times

Mr. Blonde: Six times? Well, you know, what if she’s too ****ing busy?

Mr. Pink: Words “too ****ing busy” shouldn’t be in a waitress’ vocabulary.

Nice Guy Eddie: Excuse me, Mr. Pink - the last ****ing thing you need’s another cup of coffee.

Mr. Pink: Jesus Christ - I mean these ladies aren’t starving to death. They make minimum wage. You know, I used to work minimum wage. And when I did, I wasn’t lucky enough to have a job society deemed tip-worthy.

Mr. Blue: You don’t care they’re counting on your tips to live?

(Mr. Pink rubs two of his fingers together.)

Mr. Pink: You know what this is? It’s the world’s smallest violin playing just for the waitresses.

Mr. White: You don’t have any idea what you’re talking about. These people bust their ass. This is a hard job.

Mr. Pink: So’s working at McDonald’s, but you don’t feel the need to tip them, do you? Why not? They’re servin ya food. But no, society says don’t tip these guys over here, but tip these guys over here. That’s ********.

Mr. White: Waitressing is the number one occupation for female noncollege graduates in this country. It’s the one job basically any woman can get and make a living on. The reason is because of their tips.

Mr. Pink: (pauses) **** all that.

Mr. Brown: Jesus Christ!

Mr. Pink: I’m very sorry the government taxes their tips, that’s ****ed up. That ain’t my fault. It would seem to me that waitresses are one of the many groups the government ****s in the ass on a regular basis. Look, if you ask me to sign something that says the government shouldn’t do that, I’ll sign it, put it to a vote, I’ll vote for it, but what I won’t do is play ball. And as for this non-college ******** I got two words for that: learn to ****in’ type, ’cause if you’re expecting me to help out with the rent you’re in for a big ****in’ surprise.

[budster101]

[tooki]

My understanding is that a pre-added gratuity is a gratuity, and thus optional. You are free to pay it or not. (And in fact, I have refused to pay it when truly dissatisfied.)

I think the real reason for it is that many people do one of the following:

- don't realize the tip is included, and tip again
- pay it because they don't realize that it is still optional, contestable, and entirely up to them


When I go to my favorite chinese restaurant with the local MUG (a long tradition), the waitress always does it wonderfully: she takes each order individually, always gets it right, provides ample free tea, oranges and cookies at the end, etc, and then gives each person a separate check with 15% tip added in, and then will run as many credit cards as necessary. If someone were dissatisfied, they could change it -- but the service is so good that most people tip a bit over.

That same restaurant does NOT add tip normally, even with large parties; it's only for group things like that. Normally, they bill the standard way, but are flexible.

What annoys me are the crappy diners around here, which started adding tip to all checks (silently), and then don't like splitting bills to put it on separate cards. So annoying, with worse service, food, and prices than the chinese place...

tooki

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Best scene ever:

The last time I argued here at the Lounge that 15% or more is often not justified, I was being called a cheapskate and even names. Ah well.

-t

[Demonhood]

if a place is calling it a surcharge, it's because they saw that one guy, a few months back, who refused to pay a 20% gratuity at a restaurant. he was arrested, but ultimately got off because a gratuity/tip is optional. a surcharge is not.

i agree with just about everyone: they should pay the wait-staff a decent wage and just raise the price of things. not that that is ever going to happen.

i shudder to think what the service would be like at a place that had a 20% surcharge already included (no matter the party size). some places i go, when i'm with 7+ people, give me the worst service because they know the tip is coming their way no matter what.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Or, like me, will you avoid the restaurant completely?

Exactly.

-t

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Demonhood

if a place is calling it a surcharge, it's because they saw that one guy, a few months back, who refused to pay a 20% gratuity at a restaurant. he was arrested, but ultimately got off because a gratuity/tip is optional. a surcharge is not.

In such a case, ALWAYS be the person to call the cops. They are more likely to believe the person who placed the call than the other party. (E.g. "Hello? I need assistance because I am being held hostage by restaurant staff which wishes to unlawfully charge me a larger tip on the meal than I wish to pay.")

tooki

[Weyland-Yutani]

I rarely tip more than the cents up to the next euro. Still, in the places I love and always get top notch service I never tip less than €2, even for a cup of coffee (90 eurocents).

cheers

W-Y

[ReggieX]

Originally Posted by tooki

What annoys me are the crappy diners around here, which started adding tip to all checks (silently), and then don't like splitting bills to put it on separate cards. So annoying, with worse service, food, and prices than the chinese place...

It is 100% up to the diners to inform their server that they'll be needing separate cheques, up front, before anyone orders anything.

[paul w]

You know what I'd like to see? The tax included in the price. Why is this so hard to do? They factor tax in everywhere in Europe, for example. And it's a hefty tax, usually.

We all know the concept of tax, we're not idiots. Why not just factor it into the prices and be done with it?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by paul w

You know what I'd like to see? The tax included in the price. Why is this so hard to do? They factor tax in everywhere in Europe, for example. And it's a hefty tax, usually.

We all know the concept of tax, we're not idiots. Why not just factor it into the prices and be done with it?

Yeah, I agree.

Here, we have a 11.5% food service tax. Add 15% gratuity and your meal is suddenly 25% more than on the menu. Although you know about it, it just bites you in the a$$ every time...

-t

[ghporter]

I have been known to delete the automatically-added-in gratuity from the check...and then leave a BETTER tip in cash. Once, just after I'd reamed a manager at the front of the restaurant over forcing most customers to pay their stupid gratuity because it makes the customer feel like it's not only mandatory, but the customer also feels like he's tipped, even with a chintzy percentage. I managed to catch my waitress and handed her a $20 (it was about a $35-40 check) and said "Thank you for wonderful service." The manager guy was flabergasted, so I went for the jugular: "How many other customers even bother to tip ANYTHING after your machines add a stupid 10% on to the bill automatically?"

It's a stupid thing, it limits most customers (who obviously lack the creativity to get beyond velcro shoes) to what the register adds in, and it shortchanges the waitstaff or demotivates them.

[Gankdawg]

Originally Posted by Millennium

I can see automatically adding such a surcharge for huge parties; the amount of work involved in serving a large party goes up much faster than the number of people being served, and there ought to be some recognition of that fact.

The problem is that once they know that there's an automatic tip added, service goes in the toilet.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Gankdawg

The problem is that once they know that there's an automatic tip added, service goes in the toilet.

Or the service is as good as the staff can give to a mob, and the mob demands special service that they wouldn't if they were there as ones and twos. It's a no-win for everyone-particularly the staff, since huge parties devolve into mobs with no brain and no morals-ever seen people from a large party pick up tips on their way out? I have! (I tripped one of 'em too! )

[strictlyplaid]

I'm pretty much for eliminating tipping and making the price of the meal reflect a fair wage to the service staff. In my mind, an automatic gratuity pretty much accomplishes that goal.

Absent the auto-gratuity, I always tip 20% or more unless the service is truly, truly awful -- as in, waiter didn't refill my drink when the whole place was empty and he was staring right at me. (That happened once in New York, where I later found out that refills are not a part of the local culture... or something.) I do it because serving is a physically demanding job and one of the only ones where your day-to-day compensation is a function of what a random sample of the public thinks about you.

[budster101]

I tip well if I know I'm going to want to return and eat <sneeze, cough, etc.> again and not have any of that in my food.

[Randman]

I would not go to a restaurant that added that.

Overseas, it's standard to do that and not tip and the service sucks!

[JustAnOl'Broad]

Wow, I come home from an 8 1/2 hour shift as a waitress
(and yes, I am a "middle-aged, overworked woman"), and
I check in here and you guys are chatting about my occupation.
Trippy. LOL.

Does my employer add a gratuity? Nope.
Do my coworkers whine about this? You betcha.

I have a different philosophy. I am a server.
My #1 thought when I approach a table is to treat people
the way I would want to be treated.

I generally have 5- 11 tables at a time. These seat anywhere
from 2-8 patrons each. There are usually 5 waitresses on per
shift in the restaurant area. In addition to us there are 4-6
bussers, prep help, hostesses, and managers.
Depending on the tips I've made during a shift, I also tip
my support staff; afterall - they make minimum wage too.

My employer taxes my sales at 8%.

I enjoy my job. It all boils down to customer service
and pr.
And I'll iron another white shirt and start it all over again
tomorrow at 3pm (til close.) I'll serve people from all walks
of life; 99 out of 100 will be quite happy with me.

"So, you folks have a great weekend, and stop back soon."

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Apparently more and more restaurants are automatically adding a "gratuity surcharge" which is a fancy way of saying that they are going to tack on an extra 20% to your cheque or restaurant food bill as a way of paying their waitstaff.

I, for one, think that's a crock.

If they are going to do that then raise the price of the food across the board and increase their wages, you know? Don't force me, the customer, to tip for service that though it might be good, is frequently bad. As a matter of fact, if there is no incentive for the waitstaff to do a good job waiting on us because they get tipped regardless of their service, then they'll probably do a shoddy job of it.

Next, I despise the idea of being forced to tip for service. That's not supposed to be the norm in this country.

Lastly, sometimes I tip MORE than 20% and their server is going to miss out. Case in point: Last night we went to the local Italian restaurant and our cheque was $38. I gave him a $50 bill and told him to keep the change.

What do any of you think? If restaurants start charging an automatic 20% surcharge for their own servers to wait on you will you be happy about it?

Or, like me, will you avoid the restaurant completely?

I would walk out if a place tried that on me.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Demonhood

if a place is calling it a surcharge, it's because they saw that one guy, a few months back, who refused to pay a 20% gratuity at a restaurant. he was arrested, but ultimately got off because a gratuity/tip is optional. a surcharge is not.

i agree with just about everyone: they should pay the wait-staff a decent wage and just raise the price of things. not that that is ever going to happen.

i shudder to think what the service would be like at a place that had a 20% surcharge already included (no matter the party size). some places i go, when i'm with 7+ people, give me the worst service because they know the tip is coming their way no matter what.

My fav bar I go to with my friends, we usally end up tipping around 30.00 bucks a night between all of us. On a friends birthday we ended up tipping over 100.00, we always get great service there. We are prob this one girls fav group

[RobOnTheCape]

I don't have a problem with tipping waitstaff. Automatic surcharges would burn me I guess. However, what gets me more nowadays is the new abundance of tip cups everywhere. Breakfast counters, non-food stores and more. I always have this small degree of guilt by not dropping a coin into the bucket, but think "there wasn't a bucket to drop a coin into just a few years ago, why should I start now".

It seems some days everything you do is going to cost you an extra 15% because all stores/services have the cup out in front of you.

[wdlove]

Hi Cody

Have missed being able to iChat.

Here is Boston the gratuity of 20% is added automatically to a party of 8 ore more. Never have seen it added otherwise. If that did occur, they would never see me again.

[Kevin]

My favorite tipping game.

After you order. figure out 20%.

Lay it on the table.

Every time the waiter or waitress screws anything up, or comes to your table late. Remove a few bills in front of him or her. When something is done right, put some back.

You'll be suprised at the great service you get.

And yeah, any restaurant that REQUIRES you to pay a certain amount for a tip, no matter of the service wont be visited by me.

That just promotes mediocrity.

[IceEnclosure]

So many opinions in here.

I view it from the south Florida-waiter-guy's angle, cause that's what I am.

When you know you've done everything fantastically well, and that $100 check has a 5 dollar bill laying inside, you wanna smash that loser that just left. "yeah, thanks a lot!"

American waiters are responsible for tipping out the busser, the bartender, the foodrunner/expediter, and sometimes the hostess (at my restaurant, 2% - busser, 2% - foodrunner, 1% - bartender, 1% - host)
6% of my SALES goes to these people. and if you're tipping 15% or so, I'm walking home with 9% of my sales. On top of $3/hr or so. (which is basically nil 'cause of taxes and such)

I'd like to see a higher wage as well, but eh.

Surcharge? doesn't sound like a good thing. Gratuity Included? There's no law saying you NEED to pay it. It's just a helpful reminder that you and eight of your friends had a great dinner with wine service, cappucinos (that I made) and a great dessert.

When dining in America, DO AS THE AMERICANS DO. (Romans, etc)

Part of going out for a nice dinner in the states includes tipping. Your food would cost a bit more if there was no tip involved. Keep it in mind.

Go play your tipping game with your mother.

[strictlyplaid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

My favorite tipping game.

After you order. figure out 20%.

Lay it on the table.

Every time the waiter or waitress screws anything up, or comes to your table late. Remove a few bills in front of him or her. When something is done right, put some back.

You'll be suprised at the great service you get.

You're exactly the reason I tip 20% every time. I'd look at budster101's comment above--that act is likely to get your food "tampered with."

If you really believe that the motivating power of tips is so important--how is it that jobs get done in every other industry? I do a good job (if I do say so myself) without having some pompous jerk snatch my paycheck away with a smug look on his face every time I make a minor mistake.

[Kevin]

Ah that isn't how I play the game.

I only START that game if the waiter initially screws up, or acts disinterested in serving the table I am in.

See sometimes the servers get a "prime" table they are most interested in, and pay most attention to.

And will ignore your table for the most part because he or she thinks they are cashing in at that table.

Sometimes a little motivation is needed.

This is not a "game" I play every time I go to eat.

When a server is doing a bad job, and it is obvious that they care less what you think of their performance, the game can be amusing.

If they see how much money YOU are planning to pay them. You will more than likely get better service.

I only rarely had to take money out of the pile before.

A lot of the time servers wont start doing their job correctly till the last end of your meal. Believing that is the only part you'll remember.

The tip is a way a lot of the times for restaurants to make sure their servers are doing a good job. That is why a lot of the time your check depends on your tip.

While there are scumbags that don't tip properly, thus is life.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by strictlyplaid

You're exactly the reason I tip 20% every time. I'd look at budster101's comment above--that act is likely to get your food "tampered with."

If you really believe that the motivating power of tips is so important--how is it that jobs get done in every other industry? I do a good job (if I do say so myself) without having some pompous jerk snatch my paycheck away with a smug look on his face every time I make a minor mistake.

Yes, but most waiters depend on tips for a large portion of their income, and they want these tips quite badly. They always tell me, "The only reason I do this job is for the tips." So yes, I think the tips are a big motivating factor.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Kevin

My favorite tipping game.

After you order. figure out 20%.

Lay it on the table.

Every time the waiter or waitress screws anything up, or comes to your table late. Remove a few bills in front of him or her. When something is done right, put some back.

You'll be suprised at the great service you get.

I can guarantee you, I waited tables myself for years so I am speaking from experience, that this game will get your food tampered with. Count yourself lucky if it's just saliva.

[strictlyplaid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Ah that isn't how I play the game.

I only START that game if the waiter initially screws up, or acts disinterested in serving the table I am in.

Z, don't worry about justifying it to us--we don't serve your food. It doesn't hurt me at all, and I'm certainly not worried about what NNers think of my tipping habits. But just out of self-interest, you might want to take a look at this first:

http://www.stainedapron.com/

and in particular this section:

http://www.stainedapron.com/rev.htm

Some servers are scumbags who will taint your food for petty revenge... but such is life, right?

[strictlyplaid]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Yes, but most waiters depend on tips for a large portion of their income, and they want these tips quite badly. They always tell me, "The only reason I do this job is for the tips." So yes, I think the tips are a big motivating factor.

You're right, they do it for the tips--because the base income is so low. Yet most industries run on a salary or hourly system, and yet seem to do fine. That suggests to me that the restaurant service industry would also do fine under an hourly system with managerial supervision. Am I off the deep end here?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by strictlyplaid

Some servers are scumbags who will taint your food for petty revenge... but such is life, right?

Ah that is why it's done usually after food is served.

I am sure they think "I wish I would have known before I served his food"

But really. I don't do this to all servers. Just the ones that don't care, don't do their job properly, and think they should get a tip anyhow.

I am SURE these people are USED to getting lousy tips.

I'll usually make a comment to the manager or owner of said restaurant as well.

I am sure he would like to know he has a slacker for a worker.

[Kerrigan]

In America I have noticed that the usual level of service I get is lower than it is in Europe. Will this new compulsory tip help that? I doubt it, so you are screwed