[Planet_EN]

For those who dont know Jack Thompson:
Visit this time]

this is a series of emails written to and from some kid to Mr. Thompson. I did not write them.

I found a link to your site, www.stopkill.com, through an online forum. I looked over it, and although I think that there is some genuine concern over the effect of violent media on kids, many of your statements on that site were made in ignorance. What I plan to do in this email is to help you gain a better understanding of video games, and to show you that while your intentions are good, your current course of action is a mistake. I'm going to present my arguments calmly and logically, and you're welcome to write a rebuttal if you wish. First off, let me tell you a little about myself. I'm 14, and I've been playing video games avidly since I was 8. I'm pretty knowledgeable about the subject of video games as a whole, and I've played my fair share of Halo 2 and other shooters, including the Ghost Recon series, which is regarded as one of the most realistic FPSs (first-person shooters, in case you aren't familiar with the terminology). I also enjoy strategy games, in which the death toll is often far higher than what you'd encounter in a FPS. I'm an archer, a martial artist (Tae Kwon Do), and I was taught how to operate a gun by my grandfather, who's an experienced hunter. And, oddly enough, I've never felt the urge to kill, or even seriously injure, anyone. I imagine that killing in self-defence would be extremely difficult for me, despite my alleged desensitization. Now I'd like to dismiss a misonception (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and not assuming that you're twisting the truth) you have about games like Halo, which are called FPSs. These are not "sniper games." They are games presented in first person, in which you shoot enemies, manage ammunition, and explore levels. You may fail to see the distinction between "sniper" and "first person" based on that description alone, but if you ever take the time to play any of these games, you'll understand that there is no comparison between playing a FPS and operating a rifle. Which brings me to my next point- games can't accurately "train" you to commit violent acts, despite your claims. First off, games are innacurate by their very nature, and they give you less practical knowledge on operating firearms than watching a few hours of History Channel would. Secondly, I'm going to walk you through a typical scenario of me playing Halo 2, which is probably the best FPS available right now1) I rotate the right control stick slightly, then hold down the right trigger. There is no violent intent towards my enemy, wether it's an AI-controlled bot or a human opponent I'm facing online- it's a simple challenge in the case of the former and a friendly competition in the case of the latter.(2) On screen, a series of polygons which emulate bullet trails appear. Those polygons collide with the polygons rendered to represent my enemy, and those same polygons then emulate my opponent dying.The important distinction here is that there is no gun, no bullets, and no enemy. There is a rotation of the control stick and a pull of the controller's trigger, resulting in a change of the onscreen display. Anyone who can't see the difference between this and the act of firing a gun at a human being is clearly unfit to be playing these games and, frankly, is an idiot. Which, once again, leads me to the next point I'm going to make. No one in their right mind would ever do the things that you blame on video games. A quick glance at such actions shows that there are far bigger, far more serious causes than violent media behind them. Now, you may wonder, "Why would someone kill a person in a video game if they think it's wrong to do in real life?" Well, the truth is, no one gets hurt when you kill a video game character. There are corporeal consequences to commiting acts of violence on real living things, but the difference is that real living things are just that, real. Well, that's my case against your Anti-Violent Games crusade. I support efforts to get parents more informed about the type of games their kids are playing, but it doesn't take some kind of genius to look at the back of the box of the game your kid wants to buy. If that doesn't tell you enough, there are many popular, respected websites that can give parents reliable information on the content of games. There is no evil conspiracy to turn America's youth into killers going on here- developers are people too. It should be noted that any federal interference with the video game industry would go down in my book as a violation of freedom of speech, which is something I dissaprove of under all circumstances. PS: On the topic of the 'Hot Coffee' mod for GTA: San Andreas, I get the feeling that you don't know what a mod is. Mods are code written by third parties, which adds to or modifies the game code, thereby adding or changing gameplay features. Also, you should keep in mind that this game is rated Mature(17+), and it's clearly displayed on the box that GTA contains sexual content, so any parent who walks in on their kid playing Hot Coffee shouldn't be at all shocked, in my humble opinion.

Jack Thompson wrote:
Of course they can train you to kill. The games suppress the inhibition to kill, which is why the military uses them for that purpose. Thanks for writing.

I wrote:
That's a half-truth. The games used by the military are not the same as the games available to the public, and they're far more akin to simulators than to entertainment systems. There is only one game that I know of which was used by the military and is now available to the public, Full Spectrum Warrior, and the civilian version was modified for faster gameplay and improved graphics. Things such as making the grenades go off quicker, for example, to give it more pick-up-and-play, entertainment value. Even then, anyone can tell you that killing in a game is not at all comparable to killing in reality, because killing in a game is, in fact, not actually killing.Flight simulators aren't used to suppress the inhibition to fly, they're used to give the pilot-in-training technical skills needed to operate a plane. The military uses video games in the same way.

Jack Thompson wrote:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07...s_6129301.html

I wrote:
Well, I'll admit defeat on Hot Coffee issue, but my point about violence still stands. I'd hardly call that article an effective rebuttal to my statements. And just for the sake of debate, let's hypothetically say your theory is true, and violent games do indeed reduce the inhibition to kill. Does that neccessarily mean that a gamer would have any more desire to kill? It would simply remove a roadblock for someone who already has violent urges and tendencies, caused by other, more serious factors, would it not? A rational, peaceable person who's inhibition to kill was reduced still would lack the violent urge to even contemplate murder.

Jack Thompson wrote:
In the UK an M game can't be sold to a minor, which is the only restriction I seek here. Smarten up. Your ignorance is showing.

I wrote:
Oh, really? Seems to me that you're attempting to draw negative attention to a major game company, spread false information that suggests that violent media creates killers, and continually changing the subject during this discussion. I'd like to bring your attention to the replies you allegedly sent to a few other gamers who have emailed you:
"I am not interested in 'gamer's thoughts,' as that constitutes the latest oxymoron." "Screw off" These are people who I have never known to lie, especially on matters of politics. Perhaps you're being so curteous to me because you don't want Mommy and Daddy upset? Don't worry about that, Mr. Thompson, because I like to fight my own battles. You're spreading ignorance, taking advantage of others' misfortunes, attempting to destroy a well-established industry, and using technicalities to evade my arguments, which you seem to be incapable of refuting. Your two-faced, ambulance-chasing nature is showing. If you want to convince me otherwise, respond to my arguments instead of changing the subject. I'm not as naive as you think.

Jack Thompson wrote:
check into the nearest mental health facility

I wrote:
Mental institution? Whatever for? Did I hit a soft spot with that last email? That reply had a clear tone of finality to it, but you haven't gotten rid of me yet. Personally, I enjoy verbally destroying your "beliefs" and watching your petty attempts to shut out the truth. So, tell me... what exactly are your motives for professing these beliefs that you make no effort to defend? Really, I'm curious. I've never understood how people like you find it so easy, so satisfying, to uphold beliefs that aren't your own. That clearly aren't your own. If you want to insult me, find something witty next time. Being called insane isn't very deragatory, nor is it very clever. PS: I was going to include a joke pertaining to me allegedly having no inhibition to kill, but as you are a lawyer I opted against anything that could be considered a threat in even the most liberal terms.

Jack Thompson wrote:
Not interested.

I wrote:
Well, I've had fun antagonizing you. Also, I think I should tell you that I've posted this entire conversation on a public forum. You're unlikely to garner any support from my little corner of the web.

Jack Thompson wrote:
Post that, junior.

I wrote:
With pleasure. I know some people who'd get a real kick out of it.

Jack Thompson wrote:
I bet you do. While you gamers are all autostimulating yourselves with hopefulness that all of this is going nowhere, I'm in the current Reader's Digest and working with US Senators. You all ought to be concerned.

I wrote:
Reader's Digest? How ironic that they once had an article poking fun at frivolous lawyers. Funny ol' world, ain't it? Well, you never know what crazy things politicians will do, but if people critically examine your viewpoints as I have, then I doubt that you'll get far. A great deal of disdain towards you is growing in the gaming community, and there are a LOT of voting-age gamers in this country. Who are some of the senators you're currently talking to? I think I'd like to contact them as well.

He hasn't responded since the last e-mail I sent him.

[Eug Wanker]

for the kid.

[crazyjohnson]

The kid did a good job however I am sure the lawyer has better things to do than spend hours crafting responses to some kid. Time is money.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by crazyjohnson

The kid did a good job however I am sure the lawyer has better things to do than spend hours crafting responses to some kid. Time is money.

Yeah, but the lawyer did respond, and in a very unprofessional manner. ie. If those quotes are real, then Jack Thompson is a complete idiot.

"check into the nearest mental health facility"

" I bet you do. While you gamers are all autostimulating yourselves with hopefulness that all of this is going nowhere, I'm in the current Reader's Digest and working with US Senators. You all ought to be concerned.

I'm with the kid.

[crazyjohnson]

No, I am with the kid as well - just think that while Jack obviously did reply he didnt put much thought into it - and neither would I. So I dont know about him completely getting pwned.

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

I'm with the kid.

[KeriVit]

sure is alot to read...

[TheIceMan]

yeah, good for the kid. seems to be quite intelligent. and shame on jack for dismissing him. one thing i know is that just because people get older and become "adults" doesn't mean that they get any smarter. jack and his bean stalks here seems to be an example of this.

[crazyjohnson]

Dude, do you know how much money lawyers make? Hey, if you made a mint charging clients a ****-load per hour what would you rather do: (a) waste your time (money) with some stupid kid, (b) $$$?

Originally Posted by KeriVit

sure is alot to read...

[Planet_EN]

Originally Posted by TheIceMan

yeah, good for the kid. seems to be quite intelligent. and shame on jack for dismissing him. one thing i know is that just because people get older and become "adults" doesn't mean that they get any smarter. jack and his bean stalks here seems to be an example of this.

yeah, sensibility isn't measured in the number of years.

[Daveecee]

He seems to beat around the bush quite a bit (not to mention replying unprofessionally to anything that proves a valid point against his arguments).

[tracemhunter]

what a tool. he sounds like he should be on tv during Jerry Springer commercial breaks.

[pooka]

Funny. I have to pay $500/hr for my attorney to be just as rude and dismissive to me. I'm feeling violated.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by KeriVit

sure is alot to read...

All the type of his first salvo was so bunched together fewer people will venture in to read a dense block of type like that. A WORD TO THOSE WHO WANT THEIR POSTS READ...INCLUDE WHITE SPACE!!!

[Scandalous Ion Cannon]

Isn't "pwned by teenage gamer" an oxymoron?

[mojo2]

First of all, I think that is one REALLY advanced 14 year old. I'd bet he is actually older than 14 and I'd ALSO bet the atty believed (but wouldn't say) that the kid was actually older than 14.

The next issue is one that is more important. OF COURSE anyone who is addicted to a "thing," no matter what that thing is, would fight to keep it from being taken away or made "less" in any substantial way.

If you believe advertising is effective you HAVE to concede that playing hour upon hour of video games where your objective or even a secondary consequence is that of killing people can prove dangerous to certain individuals and the true extent of the dangers will NOT be clearly seen for a generation.

You may not fall victim to it but you may one day know someone who will.

Some will not even recognize they have been adversely affected by their constant exposure to the games until too late.

Sad, but true. Protest all you want. It is NOT a harmless past time.

[sek929]

Huh? Its a test of thumb skill. And in Halo its a big Human/robot and an Alien.

If you are THAT mentaly unstable as to commit crimes due to videogames you would have found any outlet for your physcopathic urges.

Its as weak as the "rock music making kids kill themselves" argument, a bunch of hogwash.

[sek929]

Though mario did get me hooked on shrooms

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by sek929

Though mario did get me hooked on shrooms

Sorry, but you are in luck! I think there's a 12 step for shrooms.

[sek929]

Do you have to apologize to the people and creatures you've wronged but don't actually exist?

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by sek929

Huh? Its a test of thumb skill. And in Halo its a big Human/robot and an Alien.

If you are THAT mentaly unstable as to commit crimes due to videogames you would have found any outlet for your physcopathic urges.

Its as weak as the "rock music making kids kill themselves" argument, a bunch of hogwash.

Go to anyone in advertising and ask them, "what's the formula?"

It is:

Message - What you say and how you say it.

Reach - How many people hear or see your message.

Frequency - How many times those people hear or see your message.

Face it. Some people may discount the effect of advertising but BILLIONS are spent based on the formula above and it works.

People make decisions UNCONSCIOUSLY after having been bombarded with frequent messages for (NAME OF YOUR FAVORITE PRODUCT).

What is the difference (from your subconscious' point of view) between hearing, "Got Milk?" or "Can you hear me now? Good!" and 'plugging' a thousand cyber people per month? You beat a mental path between YOU and YOU doing a certain action.

This stuff is real, homie.

[BasketofPuppies]

And that's why it says on the front of the box, "M MATURE 17+." So parents can make informed decissions on whether their children are capable of handling such content.

[effgee]

Content-wise, I'm with the kid. So much for "get the government off our back" - whatever happened to parents being responsible for what they buy for kids and/or what kids buy with their allowance?

Aside from that, I agree with mojo2 - that was written by a 14yr old? I find that somewhat hard to believe.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by mojo2

First of all, I think that is one REALLY advanced 14 year old. I'd bet he is actually older than 14 and I'd ALSO bet the atty believed (but wouldn't say) that the kid was actually older than 14.

That is what I was thinking too.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by sek929

Though mario did get me hooked on shrooms

You know, I had some of those last weekend. White chocolate covered.

I don't think it will be happening again. Just wasn't the same as when I was in my youth.

Let that be a lesson.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by mojo2

First of all, I think that is one REALLY advanced 14 year old. I'd bet he is actually older than 14 and I'd ALSO bet the atty believed (but wouldn't say) that the kid was actually older than 14.

The next issue is one that is more important. OF COURSE anyone who is addicted to a "thing," no matter what that thing is, would fight to keep it from being taken away or made "less" in any substantial way.

If you believe advertising is effective you HAVE to concede that playing hour upon hour of video games where your objective or even a secondary consequence is that of killing people can prove dangerous to certain individuals and the true extent of the dangers will NOT be clearly seen for a generation.

You may not fall victim to it but you may one day know someone who will.

Some will not even recognize they have been adversely affected by their constant exposure to the games until too late.

Sad, but true. Protest all you want. It is NOT a harmless past time.

Even if the "kid" was 25, the lawyer's responses are totally idiotic.

Few pasttimes are completely harmless. I rock climb and mountain bike, and I consider both far more dangerous than playing violent video games.

[ort888]

Those responses are actually amongst his most reasonable. This Jack Thompson guy is a real piece of work. I've seen his responses to other people's emails and they are truly frightening. He is very unprofessional. He is a very poor choice as main spokesperson in the war against video games. It's just a matter of time before he shoots himself in the foot.

[The Windozer]

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

Isn't "pwned by teenage gamer" an oxymoron?

I'm pretty sure an oxymoron is the combination of two contradictory terms, i.e. "military intelligence" or "deafening silence". Or are you saying that "teenage" and "gamer" are contradictory?

Anyway, "oxymoron" is, apparently, itself an oxymoron: "Oxus" means sharp and "moros" means dull.

[MaxPower2k3]

I'm 16 now, and I don't find it at all inconceivable that a 14 year old wrote that. Sure, I knew plenty of 14 year olds who could barely put a sentence together, but smart kids can write that well by the time they're 14. And, as has been pointed out, even if the kid was older, his argument still holds up, and Thompson's astonishing immaturity only helps the kid's case.

I'm kind of tempted to email him about this article, but I'm sure he'd just dismiss me the same way he dismisses that kid.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by MaxPower2k3

I'm 16 now, and I don't find it at all inconceivable that a 14 year old wrote that. Sure, I knew plenty of 14 year olds who could barely put a sentence together, but smart kids can write that well by the time they're 14. And, as has been pointed out, even if the kid was older, his argument still holds up, and Thompson's astonishing immaturity only helps the kid's case.

I'm kind of tempted to email him about this article, but I'm sure he'd just dismiss me the same way he dismisses that kid.

You have a point. I find it hard to believe that a 16 year old wrote this.

[BasketofPuppies]

Originally Posted by ort888

Those responses are actually amongst his most reasonable. This Jack Thompson guy is a real piece of work. I've seen his responses to other people's emails and they are truly frightening. He is very unprofessional. He is a very poor choice as main spokesperson in the war against video games. It's just a matter of time before he shoots himself in the foot.

Ahem...

He's the self-appointed main spokesperson in the war against videogames. And an attention whore.

[Scandalous Ion Cannon]

Originally Posted by The Windozer

I'm pretty sure an oxymoron is the combination of two contradictory terms, i.e. "military intelligence" or "deafening silence". Or are you saying that "teenage" and "gamer" are contradictory?

Anyway, "oxymoron" is, apparently, itself an oxymoron: "Oxus" means sharp and "moros" means dull.

How about "Owned" and "Teenage gamer".

Is it possible to get burned by a teenage game nerd?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

How about "Owned" and "Teenage gamer".

Is it possible to get burned by a teenage game nerd?

Well I am sure it is. Why wouldn't it?

[m a d r a]

that may be interesting stuff but my eyes just rebel at the thought of having to read a couple of hundred lines of text without any paragraph breaks - too much like hard work.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by m a d r a

that may be interesting stuff but my eyes just rebel at the thought of having to read a couple of hundred lines of text without any paragraph breaks - too much like hard work.

That, and all those capital words eh?

[m a d r a]

Originally Posted by Kevin

That, and all those capitol words eh?

as long as there are no "capitals" i dinnae mind!

[Kevin]

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Even if the "kid" was 25, the lawyer's responses are totally idiotic.

Few pasttimes are completely harmless. I rock climb and mountain bike, and I consider both far more dangerous than playing violent video games.

ONE (because there are more than one of them) difference between mountain biking, rock climbing and video gaming is that unless you practice pretending to shoot dozens of people every time you reach the top of the rock formation or a certain point on your biking route, any potential damage you might do in these 'healthy' sports would be pretty much done to your self.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by mojo2

Go to anyone in advertising and ask them, "what's the formula?"

It is:

Message - What you say and how you say it.

Reach - How many people hear or see your message.

Frequency - How many times those people hear or see your message.

Face it. Some people may discount the effect of advertising but BILLIONS are spent based on the formula above and it works.

People make decisions UNCONSCIOUSLY after having been bombarded with frequent messages for (NAME OF YOUR FAVORITE PRODUCT).

What is the difference (from your subconscious' point of view) between hearing, "Got Milk?" or "Can you hear me now? Good!" and 'plugging' a thousand cyber people per month? You beat a mental path between YOU and YOU doing a certain action.

This stuff is real, homie.

Advertising rarely works on me, if you came to my house you'd notice very little amount of anything "trendy" or new. I agree that advertising spends billions trying to activate those pleasure centers of the brain that fools us into buying things we don't need.

I am just against the audacious claim that videogames turn kids into brainwashed killers.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by MaxPower2k3

I'm 16 now, and I don't find it at all inconceivable that a 14 year old wrote that. Sure, I knew plenty of 14 year olds who could barely put a sentence together, but smart kids can write that well by the time they're 14. And, as has been pointed out, even if the kid was older, his argument still holds up, and Thompson's astonishing immaturity only helps the kid's case.

I'm kind of tempted to email him about this article, but I'm sure he'd just dismiss me the same way he dismisses that kid.

Wow "kid" (just to humorously belabor the point)! You DO write well. But can you pull it off for a few hundred words, as did the quoted kid?

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Kevin

You have a point. I find it hard to believe that a 16 year old wrote this.

Ah, Kevin!

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by m a d r a

that may be interesting stuff but my eyes just rebel at the thought of having to read a couple of hundred lines of text without any paragraph breaks - too much like hard work.

DING DING DING!!!!!

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by sek929

Advertising rarely works on me, if you came to my house you'd notice very little amount of anything "trendy" or new. I agree that advertising spends billions trying to activate those pleasure centers of the brain that fools us into buying things we don't need.

I am just against the audacious claim that videogames turn kids into brainwashed killers.

Not every smoker dies of heart disease, respiratory failure or lung cancer.

Not every drinker becomes an out of control alcoholic.

Not every gambler gambles away the mortgage.

And, apparently not every person is subject to the effects of advertising. ( )

How many of your fellows (and please include in your thinking, the ones who REALLY are born defective as well as the ones who are MADE defective by poor, absent or abusive parents...) will you allow to go "off" before deciding there MAY be a problem?

Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
Business woman on plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?
Narrator: You wouldn't believe.
Business woman on plane: Which car company do you work for?
Narrator: A major one.

"Fight Club" 1999

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by sek929

Advertising rarely works on me, if you came to my house you'd notice very little amount of anything "trendy" or new. I agree that advertising spends billions trying to activate those pleasure centers of the brain that fools us into buying things we don't need.

I am just against the audacious claim that videogames turn kids into brainwashed killers.

One more thing about advertising...

Clients (especially!) make the mistake of doing something called, "self referencing."

That is, they think EVERYONE or mostly everyone feels the way THEY do and so they make advertising choices based on that assumption. The truth is, however, if you are to appeal to a particular audience you should first measure that audience's needs, wants, beliefs and etc. to make sure you aren't going to just waste your advertising money and maybe worse (make people HATE your product or service).

A classic example of a company NOT understanding their audience comes from automaker, GM when they introduced their popular NOVA model in either Central or South America and sales fell far below projections.

Finally, they figured out the problem was in the car's name. In Spanish, no va means, "won't go."

[sek929]

Violence between men has existed for countless years. And violence between teenagers has been there forever as well.

I really can't say why a kid grabs a tec-9 and shoots up his school. But I refuse to believe fantasy games are the sole cause of that. Desensitized to violence? You bet. More apt to kill someone in real life? I don't think so, but you may differ on that.

I buy electronics, thats about the only thing in advertising that works on me. I'm the annoying person that makes comments about how much I hate every commercial on TV. Plus my 4 years taking design classes, learning about consumers and what they want has def given me perspective on the "hog troth" so to speak where consumers glut themselves with things they absolutely "must have."

Like all you fools (not you mojoj) that buy every new apple that comes out. I'm still more than impressed with my 4 year old G4.

[Kevin]

Yeah I used my G3 tower for almost 5 years till I bought this G4 tower. The week the G5s came out.

I got such a good deal on it because the G5 was out it's not funny.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

How about "Owned" and "Teenage gamer".

Is it possible to get burned by a teenage game nerd?

Apparently so. Jack Thompson just proved it.

[MaxPower2k3]

Originally Posted by mojo2

Wow "kid" (just to humorously belabor the point)! You DO write well. But can you pull it off for a few hundred words, as did the quoted kid?

Hey, I take mild offense at that.

Yes, I can write quite a bit without "running out" of proper grammar. I understand why you're surprised, though; it pains me to read papers written by many other people my age.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by sek929

Violence between men has existed for countless years. And violence between teenagers has been there forever as well.

I really can't say why a kid grabs a tec-9 and shoots up his school. But I refuse to believe fantasy games are the sole cause of that. Desensitized to violence? You bet. More apt to kill someone in real life? I don't think so, but you may differ on that.

I buy electronics, thats about the only thing in advertising that works on me. I'm the annoying person that makes comments about how much I hate every commercial on TV. Plus my 4 years taking design classes, learning about consumers and what they want has def given me perspective on the "hog troth" so to speak where consumers glut themselves with things they absolutely "must have."

Like all you fools (not you mojoj) that buy every new apple that comes out. I'm still more than impressed with my 4 year old G4.

I agree with you, there! It really chaps mah ass that ALL the computer makers, but especially Apple, has conditioned it's loyal customers to regularly belly up to that "trough"

Apple manipulates us like few other companies I've EVER seen or even imagined.

Imagine your brand new car, in a few short years, even though it runs perfectly, will not be allowed to operate on certain streets or highways.

THAT is what Apple does. They FORCE you to upgrade or buy new equipment in order to do the things you've been (quite nicely) able to do before.

But there is no way to fight it. So you just surrender and go along with it, but being made to feel like a punk-ass bitch. IMO.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by MaxPower2k3

Hey, I take mild offense at that.

Yes, I can write quite a bit without "running out" of proper grammar. I understand why you're surprised, though; it pains me to read papers written by many other people my age.

Well, you OBVIOUSLY have it goin on! Good for you! And now I'm feeling REALLY self conscious in case you ever notice any lapses in MY writing/thinking/logic/manners/political correctness and etc...

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Yeah I used my G3 tower for almost 5 years till I bought this G4 tower. The week the G5s came out.

I got such a good deal on it because the G5 was out it's not funny.

I THINK I would trade my G5 for your G4 and the KNOWLEDGE you have to make use of it! I marvel at the things you regularly do to change your sig or to create and post funny graphics and things.

I would have stayed with my G3 if the need to upgrade hadn't made getting a new rig the more intelligent decision.

But, I SUPPOSE if it keeps Apple from going out of business, then I GUESS it's a good thing.