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Open source = Lame excuse for incompetent programmers
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troll
Join Date: May 2005
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Open source is a lame excuse for incompetent programmers incapable of supporting customers and incapable of finishing a real professional project.  This "Use it at your risk" irresponsible techno-culture has gone way too far, and it must stop.
An excellent example of this open source lunacy is osCommerce. It pretends like being a commercial quality shopping cart, yet they don't even have online documentations linked properly. Then, the license agreement says that the program is beta quality and shouldn't be used for commercial purpose. What is this thing for then? Just to kill my time with something I can't even use for any real business? When can I sell my stuff with this thing? I guess I can't and should move on to a more serious commercial solution. Meaningless. 
As a matter of fact most open source programs are like that. Go to their web site (sourceforge.net, for example) and you will see thousands of forever-beta programs script kiddies are messing with. Just when any of these lunatic programming projects will get out of beta?? Well, the fact is that they never will, because they can never take any responsibilities for supporting users.
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Baninated
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Posting Junkie
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Talk out of your ass much? I see you're going to have a pleasant stay. 
Edit: Wait, let me guess: open source expert of 20-or-so years?
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Clinically Insane
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Dude, just cause you had trouble with osCommerce doesn't mean you should vent at Open-Source in general. Need I remind you that the core of OSX is Open-Source, and I'd bet money that the core of the browser you're using to read this is too?
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You are in Soviet Russia. It is dark. Grue is likely to be eaten by YOU!
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Originally Posted by james9490
bla bla bla
-t
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Addicted to MacNN
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Mac Elite
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Do you have any idea how many pieces of crappy commercial are out there? As with anything, there is a wide spectrum of quality. FreeBSD, Apache, Mozilla, Samba and many other open source projects are staples in our current computing landscape.
Thats like saying all mac software sucks because you happened to stumble onto Perversion Tracker, when in truth the best desktop software being developed today is on the Mac.
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Mac Elite
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He's an ass, but he's a geeky ass.
I like him. Can we keep him Tooki?
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-"I don't believe in God. "
"That doesn't matter. He believes in you."
-"I'm not agnostic. Just nonpartisan. Theological Switzerland, that's me."
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Originally Posted by invisibleX
He's an ass, but he's a geeky ass.
What's geeky about him ?
-t
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Baninated
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois might be cold and flat, but at least it's ugly.
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http://www.oscommerce.com/
This "osCommerce" ? Looks ok to me. They have a plethora of sources as well as a blog. What is your real problem? and why are you posting this in the Lounge?
http://www.oscommerce.info/ (This would be their "Knoweldge Base")
http://www.oscommerce.com/solutions/downloads (Windows / Linux & Unix Versions)... Where's the OS X version and why are you here?
"Both Windows and Linux/Unix packages contain the same files, they are only packaged with different compression solutions."
Live Stores: 4,674
Contributions: 2,854
Community Members: 67,176
I guess they have at least a few other clients that don't have any issues like yours.
---
So, what is this nonsense about "Open Source Programmers" again?
You got a problem with NeoOffice?
How about all the other excellent Open Source Software out there?
What license do you speak of?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_license
Isn't all OS software licensing "beta" by nature? Why not just pony up the money for the commercial product you need instead of bitching about the Open Source Alternative, which I may add is being used successfully by people that are obviously smarter than you or myself.
Personally,
I like Commercial Software, but I have no vendetta against Open Source Software. Some people create some nice software offereings while at the same time marketing their other services to clients. I guess you have something against that? What about "Freeware" and "Shareware"? You got a problem with them too?
Lata'
You rant. I rant. 
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Talking about trolls, why do we never get trolls like this ?
-t
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Professional Poster
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Guess I better stop recommending Apache and BSD. Oh well.
EDIT: 
Unable to add cookies, header already sent.
File: /var/www/macnn/macnn/forums/includes/functions_showthread.php(640) : eval()'d code
Line: 84
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The Lord said 'Peter, I can see your house from here.'
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Addicted to MacNN
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Originally Posted by turtle777
Talking about trolls, why do we never get trolls like this ?
-t
Dude, that's a d00d!!
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Baninated
Join Date: Dec 2004
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What was we talking about again? homina-homina-homina..
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Mac Enthusiast
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Originally Posted by james9490
I am an expert in software development, I've used many computers in the last 20 years, and I must say this: open source is THE worst software methodology I have ever seen in my entire life.
Fixed.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
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You want incompetent programmers?? Snippets from closed-source classics written by Highly Paid Consultants (tm). Look at this stuff, and then tell me with a straight face how much worse Open-Source developers are by comparison.
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You are in Soviet Russia. It is dark. Grue is likely to be eaten by YOU!
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Originally Posted by turtle777
Talking about trolls, why do we never get trolls like this ?
-t
a fifty year old head on an eighteen year old body - now how do they do that?
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Addicted to MacNN
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Originally Posted by RAILhead
Dude, that's a d00d!!
Ind00d, I mean, indeed. Jeez, that's ugly.
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Milan, Europe
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Free software - and, to a lesser degree, open source - are visions of how things could be - and should be, according to some people.
One has really to "feel" such a vision, first of all, in order to appreciate it and consider it both useful and good for individuals and for society.
As for quality, often free/open source software is of a very high quality level; which can also be the case of proprietary software, of course. It's the basic, underlying philosophy which is different, rather.
Competency or incompetency has nothing to do with a program being free/open source or proprietary.
OK, just stating the obvious, of course... 
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The freedom of all is essential to my freedom. - Mikhail Bakunin
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troll
Join Date: May 2005
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Originally Posted by Sven G
Free software - and, to a lesser degree, open source - are visions of how things could be - and should be, according to some people.
Not a good way to do business programming for sure. That's why there are so many script kiddies in the Open Source circle. (Plus, they are cheapskates so they don't want to pay for legitimate license fees.)
Originally Posted by Sven G
Competency or incompetency has nothing to do with a program being free/open source or proprietary.
Wrong. Commercial software collects money, hence more budget allocated for customer support and R&D. Open source can never get out of "forever-beta" script kiddies' toy status. People use "open source" software because they are dumb cheapskates who want everything for nothing.
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troll
Join Date: May 2005
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Originally Posted by Kevin
This is quite offensive. What does this picture have anything to do with this discussion?
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troll
Join Date: May 2005
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Originally Posted by DeathMan
Do you have any idea how many pieces of crappy commercial are out there? As with anything, there is a wide spectrum of quality. FreeBSD, Apache, Mozilla, Samba and many other open source projects are staples in our current computing landscape.
Not really. Most Fortune 500 companies use Microsoft IIS for their serious business computing needs. The reason is clear: Microsoft provides serious tech support for those corporate customers while open source kiddies don't.
Besides, ASP and .NET don't run on UNIX servers. (Yeah yeah, I've tried Chillisoft's stuff.... Never worked right.)
Originally Posted by DeathMan
Thats like saying all mac software sucks because you happened to stumble onto Perversion Tracker, when in truth the best desktop software being developed today is on the Mac.
Wrong. .NET isn't available for the Mac. Cold Fusion? Nope. MS Access? Nope. ASP? NOPE.
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Baninated
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois might be cold and flat, but at least it's ugly.
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God. You are such a Microsoft Fanboy, TROLL. (You hate everything Apple and Open source) Why are you here trollboy? Just look at all your threads... just look at them.
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troll
Join Date: May 2005
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Originally Posted by budster101
http://www.oscommerce.com/
This "osCommerce" ? Looks ok to me. They have a plethora of sources as well as a blog. What is your real problem?
Check all links in their web site. Their online documentation site is "under constructions" without any clear indication of when it will be available.
Originally Posted by budster101
So, what is this nonsense about "Open Source Programmers" again?
You got a problem with NeoOffice?
How about all the other excellent Open Source Software out there?
What license do you speak of?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_license
NetOffice is useless because it doesn't translate Microsoft Office files at 100% accuracy. Anything besides Microsoft Office is utterly useless unless they can all render MS Office file format at 100% accuracy. Real business people don't have time to fix rendering problems. That's why they must use Microsoft Office. And the feature set of MS Office is just so much better than any other alternative office packages.
Originally Posted by budster101
Isn't all OS software licensing "beta" by nature? Why not just pony up the money for the commercial product you need instead of bitching about the Open Source Alternative, which I may add is being used successfully by people that are obviously smarter than you or myself.
I do, and I think other people should as well. Open Source movement promotes an irresponsible culture of "release it now, fix it later, leave it beta so we don't have to take responsibilities" mentality. It's bad for consumers.
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troll
Join Date: May 2005
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Originally Posted by m a d r a
a fifty year old head on an eighteen year old body - now how do they do that?
Steroid.
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Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: fourth sector
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Originally Posted by james9490
Not really. Most Fortune 500 companies use Microsoft IIS for their serious business computing needs. The reason is clear: Microsoft provides serious tech support for those corporate customers while open source kiddies don't.
Who says this? This is BS! I am working for a BIG company, we have about 80 million customers worldwide. There is not a single M$-prduct in our mission-critical enviroments. You know why? If you do business like my company does you do not have the time to wait for "Microsofts serious tech support" Things have to work, thats all - zero tolerance!
nexus5.
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Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Originally Posted by james9490
Open Source movement promotes an irresponsible culture of "release it now, fix it later, leave it beta so we don't have to take responsibilities" mentality. It's bad for consumers.
Go and buy whatever works for you. If you need MS Office, then that's your choice. If you don't like Open Source, then don't use it. It's a free country.
But don't troll on purpose. You're neither funny nor controversial. You're just a bore.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2002
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I find teh Troll woman eminently beddable. Sure, she does have a hag-like face, and holds completely retarded opinions, but then again, who cares?
I'd hit it. Sport ****.
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Baninated
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois might be cold and flat, but at least it's ugly.
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Originally Posted by james9490
Check all links in their web site. Their online documentation site is "under constructions" without any clear indication of when it will be available.
Go to their BOARDS and BLOG you moron.
NetOffice is useless because it doesn't translate Microsoft Office files at 100% accuracy. Anything besides Microsoft Office is utterly useless unless they can all render MS Office file format at 100% accuracy. Real business people don't have time to fix rendering problems. That's why they must use Microsoft Office. And the feature set of MS Office is just so much better than any other alternative office packages.
Bullsh!t. Real business people < That's funny. Most don't even read charts and graphs...
Not really. (Better than any alternative)
I do, and I think other people should as well. Open Source movement promotes an irresponsible culture of "release it now, fix it later, leave it beta so we don't have to take responsibilities" mentality. It's bad for consumers.
You are wrong. Open source works better than closed-source. (Microsoft)
The .doc format sucks d!ck. PDF is the way to go.
Microsoft... yeah yeah, you should talk about release now fix later... how many critical updates have you had this week you Microsh!t fanboy lapdog. Suck much M$ lately? You ARE Paul Thurrott.... you are just as retarded as he is.
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Moderator  Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
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Originally Posted by james9490
Not really. Most Fortune 500 companies use Microsoft IIS for their serious business computing needs. The reason is clear: Microsoft provides serious tech support for those corporate customers while open source kiddies don't.
Besides, ASP and .NET don't run on UNIX servers. (Yeah yeah, I've tried Chillisoft's stuff.... Never worked right.)
Do a search on mono. It's an effort to bring .net to FreeBSD, MacOS X, Linux, Solaris, Windows, etc.
You can get tech support for open source as well, just knock on the doors of IBM, Novell and Sun. These companies contribute to open source with professional programmers and intellectual property of their own. So in essence, the software is free, the service is not. (And yes, I would call their tech support serious  )
Wrong. .NET isn't available for the Mac. ... NOPE.
Do a search on mono.
Most web pages I have seen do not use .asp, but rather php (lamp, linux, apache, mysql, php), the most common web server is apache. To discredit this as script kiddies' efforts is lame.
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I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
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Baninated
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In yer threads
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Originally Posted by james9490
This is quite offensive. What does this picture have anything to do with this discussion?
Obviously you just smoked a giant H00TER before posting that.
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Milan, Europe
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BTW, besides Mono, there's also DotGNU, as a free software alternative to Microsoft's .NET.
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The freedom of all is essential to my freedom. - Mikhail Bakunin
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Cape Cod, MA
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Originally Posted by Kevin
Obviously you just smoked a giant H00TER before posting that.
Whats that? Some 30 year-old Christian slang for a massive joint?
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Baninated
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In yer threads
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hebburn, UK
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Originally Posted by budster101
Open source works better than closed-source. (Microsoft)
Well, OK. This James bloke is obviously a complete idiot/troll. However, it's not wise to counter his irrational generalisations with your own. There is an awful lot of amazing open source projects (apache, linux, open office to name but a few) but there's just as many projects that are pure naff. Chucking a project on source forge and licensing it under the GPL doesn't necessarily make it incredible, in exactly the same way as keeping your code proprietary and charging for it doesn't automatically make it awesome.
Where I see open source having the edge is that it's generally done by people with a genuine enthusiasm for what they're doing. I've had the good fortune of working on both sides - I was hired by a business to do in house proprietary programs which was incredibly boring. In fact, I'd spend time at work thinking and implementing stuff for the open source projects I had an interest in rather than doing the boring stuff (OK, I didn't push it so I'd lose my job - the point is I would do better work for the project I was interested in). Of course, great projects at work would consume my enthusiasm too. Generalisations are wrong
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Just who are Britain? What do they? Who is them? And why?
Formerly Black Book
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troll
Join Date: May 2005
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Originally Posted by Sven G
BTW, besides Mono, there's also DotGNU, as a free software alternative to Microsoft's .NET.
Like I said, the problem is that none of these pseudo solutions work right. They are usually full of bugs, and they can never withstand professional/corporate use.
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troll
Join Date: May 2005
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Stop posting overly offensive graphics. Instead, discuss the issue like a man. You don't do that because you don't have legs to stand on.
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Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Originally Posted by red rocket
I find teh Troll woman eminently beddable. Sure, she does have a hag-like face, and holds completely retarded opinions, but then again, who cares?
I'd hit it. Sport ****.
Since this thread has completely degenerated (and rightfully so), I might as well point out that this photographer is the person who killed Buckwheat! (old SNL reference for those who don't get it. Rent the 'Best of Eddie Murphy' DVD)
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troll
Join Date: May 2005
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Originally Posted by red rocket
I find teh Troll woman eminently beddable. Sure, she does have a hag-like face, and holds completely retarded opinions, but then again, who cares?
I'd hit it. Sport ****.
The last time I checked, pornography is not allowed in this forum. Would you please take it down?
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Originally Posted by james9490
The last time I checked, pornography is not allowed in this forum. Would you please take it down?
You have got to be some 'NNer just having a good time with everyone. I officially don't buy this troll bit. The return of Kelly Hogan?
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Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Originally Posted by james9490
The last time I checked, pornography is not allowed in this forum. Would you please take it down?
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Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Funny, last I checked, this board itself is running on open source software, built on PHP, an open source package and Apache, an open source web server.
Having used ColdFusion quite a bit in my last job, it's nice, but it's also very expensive. I'd rather develop using Rails (which is open source and free.)
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Baninated
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In yer threads
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Originally Posted by james9490
The last time I checked, pornography is not allowed in this forum. Would you please take it down?
Pornography? I've seen racier stuff in a Sears catalogue.
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Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ, USA
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Originally Posted by davesimondotcom
Funny, last I checked, this board itself is running on open source software...
vBulletin is open source?
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Baninated
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois might be cold and flat, but at least it's ugly.
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Can someone cancel this guy's IP address? He's a fscuking TROLL from Windblowsland.
Loser.
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Status:
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Originally Posted by RAILhead
Unsolicited Wood = Hilarity for sek929 right now
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
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No offense James, but you should be asking more questions rather than trying to tell us like it is. You are flat-out wrong. I don't mean that as in "that's your opinion, I disagree", but your facts are literally incorrect.
Netcraft says that Apache is the most popular web server on the net. The only reason to run IIS is if you want to use Microsoft programming languages (and have the resources to secure this notoriously insecure web server, and the insecure OS that runs it). Use Netcraft to find out what your favorite fortune 500 companies are running. I'll bet you are surprised how many servers are running a web server created by script kiddies.
As far as the quality of software available on Sourceforge, with experience you learn to separate the wheat from the shaft and learn how to pick out the best product.
For web-based stuff like the online store, it is almost always better to go with something that is open. This allows you a greater degree of flexibility and adaptability to suit your needs. If you change the source of a closed source product, you may not get any support from them.
As far as support of open source software goes, as already explained here, there is commercial support available, you just need to know where to look.
If you have any questions about how to pick out and test open source software, let me know. I have some recommendations which might be helpful, although I wrote my online store myself, so I don't know of any good shopping cart systems you can download off the top of my head.
BTW, I'd bet that most shopping cart systems that are worth your time store their inventory, logs, and other information within a database. Chances are, it's running under either MySQL or Postgresql - more software written by script kiddies.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status:
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Originally Posted by budster101
web apps don't need OS X specific versions to run on the Mac.
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Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Overland Park, KS (Kansas City)
Status:
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Originally Posted by james9490
Not really. Most Fortune 500 companies use Microsoft IIS for their serious business computing needs. The reason is clear: Microsoft provides serious tech support for those corporate customers while open source kiddies don't.
Besides, ASP and .NET don't run on UNIX servers. (Yeah yeah, I've tried Chillisoft's stuff.... Never worked right.)
Wrong. .NET isn't available for the Mac. Cold Fusion? Nope. MS Access? Nope. ASP? NOPE.
Any credibility you ever had (if any) was just lost in those statements...
If you honestly believe IIS/ASP/.NET are the best solutions for anything you need to be punched in the throat repeatedly.
I've had the "pleasure" of working with Access and ASP for dynamic web development and all I can say is ASP can kiss my ass, I'll stick with the very powerful, very free, very flexible/extensible, php/MySQL combo.
osCommerce is a great OSS ecommerce solution. The reason Open Source projects don't offer a warranty or support* is because you have the freedom to go and modify the code as you feel necessary, and the original developers are not responsible for your mods/hacks.
In short, you are a dolt.
*support is often in the form of a community, and is usually just as, if not more, helpful as commercial support.
(Last edited by iDu; Aug 21, 2005 at 12:37 PM.
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