[Spliff]

I always thought that a Ph.D is an additional four years (after your Masters) if you attend school full-time. Recently, however, I read an article that said the average humanities Ph.D (History, English, etc) takes 6-8 years to complete, whereas science Ph.Ds were still in the 4 year range.

WTF? Why so long for an Arts Ph.D? Seriously, I can't imagine languishing in grad school for that long.

[BRussell]

First, you don't need a Master's degree to get a PhD. I went straight from my BS to a PhD program, and most of my comrades did the same.

It does seem to be true that the "softer" the field, the longer it takes. It seems like the dissertation is what takes the time in the arts and humanities - it's not like you're taking many classes once you get past the 2nd or 3rd year. My guess is that it's just harder to come up with a good dissertation idea and do all the research in the arts and humanities. In the more science-y areas, it's usually more clear cut what you need to do and how to do it. Also, in the harder areas, people often do post-docs, which is really just an extension of grad school.

My degree is in Cognitive Psych, which is kind of in between hard/soft I guess, and it took me and most of my friends 5 years.

But I can fully understand why someone would want to stay forever. It doesn't feel like languishing at all. It's great times and it only goes downhill once you get a real job . You're poor, but you can usually make enough money to live (I made I think $8000 per year), most people are still single, and you have virtually no responsibility. You also have to understand that people who do this love college/grad school to begin with, or they simply wouldn't do it or wouldn't make it once they're in. If you don't like that kind of thing, you're of course not going to like it in grad school.

[Spliff]

Originally Posted by BRussell

But I can fully understand why someone would want to stay forever. It doesn't feel like languishing at all. It's great times and it only goes downhill once you get a real job . You're poor, but you can usually make enough money to live (I made I think $8000 per year), most people are still single, and you have virtually no responsibility. You also have to understand that people who do this love college/grad school to begin with, or they simply wouldn't do it or wouldn't make it once they're in. If you don't like that kind of thing, you're of course not going to like it in grad school.

Grad school is fun, but being poor for 6-8 years while doing an Arts Ph.D would be depressing.

I don't know anyone who went from a B.A. directly to a Ph.D. In Canada, at least, it seem as if you need to complete your M.A. first.

[strictlyplaid]

Originally Posted by BRussell

First, you don't need a Master's degree to get a PhD. I went straight from my BS to a PhD program, and most of my comrades did the same.

In some fields it is essentially a requirement, especially in the humanities. My wife is a Religious Studies grad student, and got into one of the only programs that didn't require a Master's first. In Political Science, where I am, almost no one has the master's coming into any program.

Originally Posted by BRussell

It does seem to be true that the "softer" the field, the longer it takes. It seems like the dissertation is what takes the time in the arts and humanities - it's not like you're taking many classes once you get past the 2nd or 3rd year. My guess is that it's just harder to come up with a good dissertation idea and do all the research in the arts and humanities. In the more science-y areas, it's usually more clear cut what you need to do and how to do it.

to all that. One other thing: in the harder scientific areas, you only need to read textbook compendiums of the history of research -- what ideas and techniques have stood the test of time -- plus cutting edge work. In the humanities, 3000 years of scholarship is considered to be all equally valuable and hence you have to study it all before you can be considered an "expert" in some field.

Originally Posted by BRussell

My degree is in Cognitive Psych, which is kind of in between hard/soft I guess, and it took me and most of my friends 5 years.

It's about the same in Political Science. Religious Studies has a mean time to degree of 6 years or more.

Originally Posted by BRussell

But I can fully understand why someone would want to stay forever. It doesn't feel like languishing at all. It's great times and it only goes downhill once you get a real job .

I don't know about that. I don't teach much compared to the faculty, but I get paid a lot less to do the same research work professors are doing. I for one am looking forward to having more money. Grad school is pretty fun though -- you get paid to learn and write papers! And as I mentioned, for me the teaching load is pretty light -- that will go up once I have to get a "real job."

[dcmacdaddy]

My ex-wife got her Ph.D. in 4 years after already having a masters. (Physical Chemistry, George Washington University)

My brother-in-law got his Ph.D. in 6 years with only a bachelors. (Nuclear Physics, Yale University)

My sister got her Ph.D. in 7 years after already having a masters. (Political Science, Yale University)

It took me 8 years from start to finish to get my bachelors (English, George Mason University). I am half-way through my part-time masters (English, Marymount University). It should take a total of 5 years.

These examples are totally anecdotal but furthers the claim put forth by BRussell about the hard sciences being done sooner than the soft sciences. Although, he has a good point about the discreteness of research in the hard sciences and how it is much more contained and directed. Everyone I know with a Ph.D. in the hard sciences is done in 4-6 years whereas those I know in the social sciences have been done in 6-10 years.

As for me, I am NOT going for a Ph.D. unless I win the lottery and can buy my way into Oxford to study Medieval Literature.

[strictlyplaid]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Everyone I know with a Ph.D. in the hard sciences is done in 4-6 years whereas those I know in the social sciences have been done in 6-10 years.

Depends on what you mean by "social science." If you mean quantitative statistical/mathematical modeling social science, like the program I'm in, it's 4-5 years. If you mean read tons of historical literature/political philosophy/qualitative analysis/field work in another country etc., 6-10 is expected.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by strictlyplaid

Depends on what you mean by "social science." If you mean quantitative statistical/mathematical modeling social science, like the program I'm in, it's 4-5 years. If you mean read tons of historical literature/political philosophy/qualitative analysis/field work in another country etc., 6-10 is expected.

You are correct. That is what I meant. I didn't explain myself well. But I only have a bachelors degree.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by strictlyplaid

I don't know about that. I don't teach much compared to the faculty, but I get paid a lot less to do the same research work professors are doing. I for one am looking forward to having more money. Grad school is pretty fun though -- you get paid to learn and write papers! And as I mentioned, for me the teaching load is pretty light -- that will go up once I have to get a "real job."

Well come to think of it, I did complain all the way through. Maybe it's just looking back that makes me realize how good I had it at the time.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Took me 5 years to get my Ph.D. (Chemistry) after my B.A. This is pretty average fo a Chemistry Ph.D. (4-6 years).

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa

Took me 5 years to get my Ph.D. (Chemistry) after my B.A. This is pretty average fo a Chemistry Ph.D. (4-6 years).

hopefully you did not get it with Geysen....

[GSixZero]

For physics, it takes 4-10 years. If you're straight theoretical physics, you can get out in 4, if you're astrophysics or atomic physics it may take up to 10 years. The longer ones are usually just empty time in the middle, waiting to get your turn on expensive hardware like the Hubbell space telescope, the Keck observatory in Hawaii, or one of various particle accelerators. People wait 2-3 years to get the data they need after designing the experiments.

[awaspaas]

Way too long to be a semi-adult.

/M.S. Chemistry, 2005