[Salty]

I remember someone on here said they used Macs in their church for the projector stuff... can't remember who it is. But anyway, I was talking to our pastors the other day and mentioned how we could use different software to make the service less sucky looking. We currently use a junky piece of software that the co-ordinator of our music absolutely hates, but it does the music side of things too, like with chords for guitarists and junk too. So it's not just the PowerPoint like slides that I need to try and replace, but also this extremely evil software they use for music.

Essentially what I need is something that can keep a database of songs (or at least save individual files, no clue why it seems everyone needs to keep a database... whatever...) and can place chords with the music. I found one called OpenSong that's open source, it's for Windows and OS X, I want to try it out on Windows though to see how well it works. It's got a nice feature which will auto change the chords up and down if you hop up or down a key which was one of the fave features of the crappy software we're currently using. As well of course the main reason they need guitar chords is because they need to be able to print em out for the guitarists and bassists... not sure if anyone else reads the music.

Anyway, I don't care if it does slide shows... cause really, I want to move them over to keynote... granted that would mean the church would need to have a Mac other than mine once I move on... but I'm sure we could fit it in the budget or something...

Anyway, the musicy side of things doesn't need to be church specific just music specific if anyone knows any decent titles that don't cost insane amounts. As well OS X and Windows versions would be needed.

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by Salty

Anyway, I don't care if it does slide shows... cause really, I want to move them over to keynote... granted that would mean the church would need to have a Mac other than mine once I move on... but I'm sure we could fit it in the budget or something...

I don't know if I should commend you, or scorn you. A forced Switcher does not count.

[Salty]

Well... after my internship they could also hire me

Actually I've been thinking of buying an iBook as a gift for the associate pastor when he gets ordained... I'd really love to, depends on is I have money then... I think it'd be really cool for him.

[wataru]

You know we do have a whole forum for software

[Chuckmcd]

Originally Posted by Salty

I remember someone on here said they used Macs in their church for the projector stuff... can't remember who it is.

That would be me. I'm a Youth Pastor with a 12 inch power book. I use Keynote for our Wednesday night service, and it rocks. We've started using motion backgrounds, bringing in a movie and adjusted the lyrics as build-ins on the same slide.

This system has worked for us for 3 years now, but it's not perfect. In fact, I'll be checking out the open source package you mentioned

I would recommend using Media Shout, it's pricey, but it's the best thing going right now for both sides of the service. The worship includes lyrics from most anything the Christian music library, and if it's not included it's readily available.. and it includes several translations of the bible on hand to use for sermon notes and such. It just plain works. The database is nice, and it will save you time, lots of time, especially on the sermon side of presentations. They should have a mac version out "by the end of the year"... but they've been saying that for a while.

I justified the cost of my powerbook, because I had the software already, and I do a lot of design work and such as well... and I'm much faster on this platform. We needed a laptop for the ministry anyway... so I got this. Your church's mission is not to use a certain platform, but (hopefully) reach the lost... so use what you have.

Media shout does require some serious hardware to run, so if you decide to go that route, and you need new hardware anyway... talk to the software company and consider a g5. an ibook isn't going to be able to run the kind of presentation you want (i would imagine). I would suggest a desktop unit in the sanctuary/worship center... it will serve the church better in the long run.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by wataru

You know we do have a whole forum for software

Where? I just see the War Lounge up there at the forum listing.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Where? I just see the War Lounge up there at the forum listing.

For religious software, that'll do just fine

-t

[chris v]

You shouldn't worship software. The bible warns against idolatry.

That said, I practically worship Logic, but it's a little too buggy for utter obeisance

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Salty

Essentially what I need is something that can keep a database of songs (or at least save individual files, no clue why it seems everyone needs to keep a database... whatever...) and can place chords with the music. I found one called OpenSong that's open source, it's for Windows and OS X, I want to try it out on Windows though to see how well it works. It's got a nice feature which will auto change the chords up and down if you hop up or down a key which was one of the fave features of the crappy software we're currently using. As well of course the main reason they need guitar chords is because they need to be able to print em out for the guitarists and bassists... not sure if anyone else reads the music..

Salty, when you talk about "chords", are you talking about a real scored notation, tabs or just the chord like "D/F#" ? You should train your bass and guitar players that chords like "G/B@ is enough.
What other instruments are you using ? Keyboard ? Piano ? What do they need ?

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by chris v

You shouldn't worship software. The bible warns against idolatry.

There are Christians that worship the Bible more than the guy who inspired it...

-t

[Salty]

On Sundays we have drums (not that they really use sheet music) Guitar, though Lynette plays keyboard by ear (not sure of Kyle does). Guitar, Bass, sometimes Andrea plays Viola (Like a violin but bigger). Think that's about it for instruments... I long for the day when we have a brass section .

Yah, I'm thinking I might bring OpenSong over to the lady who's in charge of the music and ask her if she likes it more or less than the current software they use. If she likes it more, that'd give us at least a bit of an advantage on the music side. It's Presentation Mode is dodgy though. Reminds me of the look of Media shout only it's unreliable and pretty crappy.

And I have no desire to simply lock my church into OS X, I think OS X scares our senior pastor, but it would be nice to have us not locked into windows, and to be able to use some of the nice features of OS X, like all the quicktime goodies, and CoreImage, CoreVideo, Quartz Extreme etc. OS X is just so far ahead on the visual side of things. And when you're doing presentation software that matters.
Kinda disappoints me that there's so lil good church software, and even less of it on the Mac.

[quietjim]

Thanks for the thoughts on using Keynote with worship. I was wondering if there is something for keeping records of worship?

[Chuckit]

According to the Book of Revelation, God will take care of that for you.

Seriously, what do worship services involve that make them different from others as far as record-keeping? There are lots of apps for various kinds of record-keeping (Address Book, iCal, Excel and so on). What do worship records require?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Salty

I long for the day when we have a brass section.

Yeah! All those pesky congregation members stealing all the chocolate muffins after service need to be kept away somehow.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Yeah! All those pesky congregation members stealing all the chocolate muffins after service need to be kept away somehow.

I got an entirely different image when he said he wanted a brass section…

[Chuckmcd]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

According to the Book of Revelation, God will take care of that for you.

Seriously, what do worship services involve that make them different from others as far as record-keeping? There are lots of apps for various kinds of record-keeping (Address Book, iCal, Excel and so on). What do worship records require?

not sure what he means by record keeping.. Keynote doesn't do that. generally the presentation package is used for one or two things... displaying the words of the current song or hymn, because I'm too lazy to use a book and two to display and outline or notes that people may want to jot down from the sermon.

As far as records go... there's a lot to be done in a church. There are the financial records, which can be very tedious. Anyone who has worked with a non-profit of any kind would know that... and most churches I know of go to great lengths to be above board in that regard, largely because there is an added pressure to be on the up and up with the books, so to speak (that's a good thing). Then there are the people records. Any church worth it's salt, IMHO, is going to keep some sort of record of anyone who ever darkens their door. This way they can keep up with them, keep them informed of events, and hopefully minister to their needs... If someone requests to be dropped that's another matter... but there are a lot of people who come in and out of churches without ever being noticed, and I think that's not right. To a church, anyone and every should matter.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by turtle777

Salty, when you talk about "chords", are you talking about a real scored notation, tabs or just the chord like "D/F#" ? You should train your bass and guitar players that chords like "G/B@ is enough.
What other instruments are you using ? Keyboard ? Piano ? What do they need ?

-t

Do you mean G/B2? Would the G chord be minor, major, dominant, diminished, or augmented?

Salty: there are fonts that produce musical notation. Software like Finale or Sibelius includes these fonts. Why not use this software to generate the music (pitches in concert pitch, guitar chords, lyrics), save the music as PDFs, and export these files into Keynote or Powerpoint?

You can use a database or some other system that will link to these presentation files.

[besson3c]

Salty: here's a tip...

One thing that I remember learning was that in providing a service, to do well it pays to be empathetic to the needs of the people you are serving.

Being a computer geek, it is very easy to want to geek everything out and use the technology as much as possible. In the minds of non-computer geeks, the technology is often far removed from the task at hand as they sort things out in their mind. Considering a platform or particular software might be the furthest thing from your Pastor's mind as far as overall importance. On the other hand, it might be important to him/them/Him, and they may want you to just take care of things, and for the technology to be seen but not heard.

I don't know if any of this applies to you or not, but my main suggestion is to take your bubbling enthusiasm for your Mac, and always try to think about what non computer geeks might be thinking at any given moment. Part of providing any sort of service well involves meeting the needs of your target audience. Another part is effective communication (speaking, writing, working within teams, contributing to meetings, etc.), but we'll save that for another thread.

[Salty]

Thanks for the link to Finale I think I'm going to show this to our Worship Co-ordinator. I like the theological discount

And as for the presentation. I don't want to make anyone feel bad or anything like that, and I try and keep the mac user superiority complex to a minimum. But both the Senior Pastor and the Worship Co-ordinator HATE the current software. Because it's ugly and unprofessional, apparently it's also fairly quirky. Software made for churches way to often is crap which is unfortunate. And that's one of the reasons why I'd like to help move us away from this sorta stuff, cause it's a bad reflection on us, and our church is a great one.
Not to mention I've attended services where we've had good projection setups vs. bad ones, and I have to say the well thought out ones just feel so much better, and if done the projector setup can seriously add to the worship experience.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Salty

Thanks for the link to Finale I think I'm going to show this to our Worship Co-ordinator. I like the theological discount

You forgot the period in between "Finale" and "I". I'm determined to help make you the best pastor EVAR by helping you improve your writing skills, so you'll have to live with me

Finale has a pretty steep learning curve. Sibelius is a bit easier to learn and has a cleaner, code base. Finale is very old software that has been ported from OS 9 and been added onto for years. It is not as nice of a Mac app, but is probably more powerful than Sibelius.

And as for the presentation. I don't want to make anyone feel bad or anything like that, and I try and keep the mac user superiority complex to a minimum. But both the Senior Pastor and the Worship Co-ordinator HATE the current software. Because it's ugly and unprofessional, apparently it's also fairly quirky. Software made for churches way to often is crap which is unfortunate. And that's one of the reasons why I'd like to help move us away from this sorta stuff, cause it's a bad reflection on us, and our church is a great one.

This should say:

- And, as for the presentation, I don't want... ("as for the presentation" is not a complete thought, it's just a fragment. Commas add needed pauses).

- But, both the Senior.... hate the current software because it's ugly and unprofessional (added comma to add needed pause, removed the period. You generally don't start sentences with "because")

- Software made for churches way too often (you had the wrong "to" here. "Too" is used to mean "also", but also imply a quantity: too much of something. To is used everywhere else).

Not to mention I've attended services where we've had good projection setups vs. bad ones, and I have to say the well thought out ones just feel so much better, and if done the projector setup can seriously add to the worship experience.

Not to mention, I've attended (added comma)...

How about if you put up a picture of Jesus, turned the projector around and projected Jesus on people's hearts... would this work?

(not making fun of you, just playing with the language a bit)

[Kevin]

[Salty]

Originally Posted by besson3c

You forgot the period in between "Finale" and "I". I'm determined to help make you the best pastor EVAR by helping you improve your writing skills, so you'll have to live with me

Finale has a pretty steep learning curve. Sibelius is a bit easier to learn and has a cleaner, code base. Finale is very old software that has been ported from OS 9 and been added onto for years. It is not as nice of a Mac app, but is probably more powerful than Sibelius.




This should say:

- And, as for the presentation, I don't want... ("as for the presentation" is not a complete thought, it's just a fragment. Commas add needed pauses).

- But, both the Senior.... hate the current software because it's ugly and unprofessional (added comma to add needed pause, removed the period. You generally don't start sentences with "because")

- Software made for churches way too often (you had the wrong "to" here. "Too" is used to mean "also", but also imply a quantity: too much of something. To is used everywhere else).



Not to mention, I've attended (added comma)...

How about if you put up a picture of Jesus, turned the projector around and projected Jesus on people's hearts... would this work?

(not making fun of you, just playing with the language a bit)

Your Plan only works if I don't stop reading

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Salty

Your Plan only works if I don't stop reading

It would be in your best interest to not... seriously man, take care of business.

[d4nth3m4n]

wow, sucky and junky in the same post? you feeling alright?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by d4nth3m4n

wow, sucky and junky in the same post? you feeling alright?

Are you addressing me? If so, what does this mean?

[Salty]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Are you addressing me? If so, what does this mean?

No I think he was trying to be funny about my post...

[Chuckit]

I still don't know what it means.

[Salty]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I still don't know what it means.

His comment or my brass section one?

If it's my brass section, I mean horns, trumpets, trombones, that sorta thing. Church services need more ska influences.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Salty

His comment or my brass section one?

If it's my brass section, I mean horns, trumpets, trombones, that sorta thing. Church services need more ska influences.

Did you know that jazz was once known as the Devil's music?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Salty

His comment or my brass section one?

His comment. The brass section one just made me giggle, because I'm 7 years old.

[malvolio]

Originally Posted by chris v

You shouldn't worship software. The bible warns against idolatry.

I feel reverence toward OS X. But Windows is the Devil's software.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by besson3c

You forgot the period in ***SNIPPED PRETETIOUS POST*** the language a bit)

Maybe you should check your posts for the same mistakes you pointed out in Salty's post. See if you can find where the missing periods in your post should go.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Did you know that jazz was once known as the Devil's music?

Did you know that classical music was at one time too. What's your point?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Maybe you should check your posts for the same mistakes you pointed out in Salty's post. See if you can find where the missing periods in your post should go.

Why am I the bad guy for pointing out these sorts of mistakes? I never once claimed to be perfect myself, but I don't consistently make the most basic of mistakes in my writing, and if I did, I would appreciate it if it were pointed out so that I could address this issue.

I'm not the bad guy for pointing out problems that should have been addressed in early high school. There is no excuse for messing up "your" and "you're" or the like. If you wish to come across as an intelligent person, take care of business. To me, it's as simple as that. If you don't, why lash out at me for politely trying to help? If it really bothers you, ask me to stop pointing out these mistakes and I will. Realizing that a mistake is made is a basic part of the self-correction process.

I've never once questioned the intelligence of those who have made these mistakes. I realize that everybody in here is of above average intelligence. If you want to get into picking apart every little flaw in my writing, you can do so, but this is besides the point. A certain amount of flaw in writing is natural and understood, but confusing "too" with "to", "their" with "there" is just some of the most basic mistakes one can make in writing. Is it incorrect of me to assume that people don't want to sound like a dimwit when they write?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Did you know that classical music was at one time too. What's your point?

Which period of classical music? What music preceded early Classical music?

You obviously dislike me, that is fine, but your attempt to pick a fight with me is pretty transparent.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by besson3c

I ***SNIPPED PRETENTIOUS RANT*** want to sound like a dimwit

Did you find the missing periods in your previous post yet? Did they teach you proper puncuation in grade school?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Which period of classical music? What music preceded early Classical music?

I take it you didn't know that then. I thought you were a musician?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Did you find the missing periods in your previous post yet? Did they teach you proper puncuation in grade school?

If you cannot learn from somebody without them exemplifying what they are trying to teach in a way that, when put under your microscope, passes all of your most rigorous tests, I'm sorry.

I will not continue this conversation further with you, think of me of pretentious if it makes you feel better. If you struggle with basic grammar, blowing me off as pretentious is not as wise a course of action as simply taking care of business. Your problems (if you have them) will affect you more than they affect me.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by besson3c

If you cannot learn from somebody without them exemplifying what they are trying to teach in a way that, when put under your microscope, passes all of your most rigorous tests, I'm sorry.

I will not continue this conversation further with you, think of me of pretentious if it makes you feel better. If you struggle with basic grammar, blowing me off as pretentious is not as wise a course of action as simply taking care of business. Your problems (if you have them) will affect you more than they affect me.

I think I hit a nerve. You don't like being called a hypocrite do you? I would be insecure as well if I made as many mistakes as you did while pointing out the same mistakes of others. Don't you think that makes you look like a "dimwit"?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Railroader

I take it you didn't know that then. I thought you were a musician?

Classical music (our contemporary label) has existed for thousands of years. Are you talking about Gregorian Chant? Early Classical? Baroque?

I'm asking you to make your point for my general interest, because so far it has been incredibly vague. It is not my fault that I'm asking you to be more specific in your point. You have failed to convey your message to me.

I don't know how what I thought was an interesting fact of our history has turned into such a source of contention, but if you want to turn this into an opportunity for you to lob some grenades my way, I'm afraid I will have to decline in returning fire.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Railroader

I think I hit a nerve. You don't like being called a hypocrite do you? I would be insecure as well if I made as many mistakes as you did while pointing out the same mistakes of others. Don't you think that makes you look like a "dimwit"?

If this is a genuine question, reread what I wrote. I don't know how to be any more clear.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Classical music (our contemporary label) has existed for thousands of years. Are you talking about Gregorian Chant? Early Classical? Baroque?

I'm asking you to make your point for my general interest, because so far it has been incredibly vague. It is not my fault that I'm asking you to be more specific in your point. You have failed to convey your message to me.

I don't know how what I thought was an interesting fact of our history has turned into such a source of contention, but if you want to turn this into an opportunity for you to lob some grenades my way, I'm afraid I will have to decline in returning fire.

Just sharing a tidbit of information with you. Thought you might be interested. You could possibly share it with one of your fellow pretentious music friends. I just found the info interesting when I first heard it as well. I questioned it too.

I only plant the seeds of information. It's you're job to water it grasshopper.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by besson3c

If this is a genuine question, reread what I wrote. I don't know how to be any more clear.

What, this part?

I will not continue this conversation further with you

I guess you weren't clear, as I did not expect a response. Maybe you could clarify it for me.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Just sharing a tidbit of information with you. Thought you might be interested. You could possibly share it with one of your fellow pretentious music friends. I just found the info interesting when I first heard it as well. I questioned it too.

I only plant the seeds of information. It's you're job to water it grasshopper.

Believe me, I have better things to do than figure out what the hell you're trying to say, and you have given me very little reason to be interested in playing detective. Good night.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Railroader

I guess you weren't clear, as I did not expect a response. Maybe you could clarify it for me.

Stop trying to bully me with your aggressive posturing, and learn to have a conversation like an adult.

Why am I wasting my time here? *sigh*

[mojo2]

Has there ever been something a person said or did or just the WAY they sounded or looked that triggered a visceral reaction in you? Just set you off?

Sometimes I get REALLY ticked when people misuse the language and make careless mistakes. And we all know that even a bright person who uses "than" instead of "then," or "to" instead of "too" and etc. is going to be judged as being ignorant and/or lazy or mentally deficient by many

When someone goes out of their way to correct me, if they have a point and aren't just looking for a reason to rag, I thank them because I CARE about these things.

Anyone who cares enough to bring such things to my attention is doing me a favor.

We ALL should applaud, if not actually join in to raise the level of useage here on these boards. Native English speakers, especially! Some of the 'furriners' write better than we do. And that is a damn shame.

However, sometimes, speaking of being irked by the way someone appears to us, a person being super detailed and constructively (in it's truest sense) critical about our language or grooming or what have you, may strike others as being jerky or ass-like.

I know Railroader can sometimes be jerky and besson3c is sometimes fuzzy. You both just pushed each other's buttons.

I think you both should duke it out in the MOSH PIT while we all eat popcorn!

Oh, uh, that's right...there is no mosh pit.

Damn! This would have been a decent match.

besson3c has the edge in smarts but Railroader is dirtier... Who would win? Not sure...not sure.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by mojo2

However, sometimes, speaking of being irked by the way someone appears to us, a person being super detailed and constructively (in it's truest sense) critical about our language or grooming or what have you, may strike others as being jerky or ass-like.

I agree... in some other threads, I just try to politely point out things. With Salty, I felt compelled to provide a blow by blow of his post because I've noticed he has a tendency to write this way on a consistent basis. I also know that he wouldn't flip out, he takes a lot of ribbing from people here, he seems cool and even-keeled.

Bad writing really is noticeable. Even when I'm being completely passive and dismissive of the writing I'm reading, bad writing can just grate on me (and I'm not an English major or anal-retentive when it comes to picking apart writing, analyzing literature, whatever.. I don't even read actual books very often). The world is full of stupid people, I come here to get away from them. I know that none of you are stupid, at least the people I bother to respond to, but mechanical problems that I remember working through in early high school that still exist sometimes make me question the intelligence of the writer.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Stop trying to bully me with your aggressive posturing, and learn to have a conversation like an adult.

Why am I wasting my time here? *sigh*

You mean the kind of adult who likes to point out the spelling and grammar mistakes of others? The kind of adult who makes the same mistake themselves? The kind of adult who thinks themselves better than others because he knows the proper spelling of "their", there", "too", "to", and et al?

You are a hypocrite and too prideful to admit it. Me, I make mistakes. I used to be like you and all high and mighty when someone either made severe grammar or spelling errors. Ask athens or even Salty. But, I realized one day that it was simply me trying to feel superior to them. If I have issue with the way they format their posts I let it slide. But if I have issue with their content, I'll blast them on it. Like I did with you. You're nothing special on here. But you think others are a dimwit because they confuse "their" and "there"?!? I declare, you are the "dimwit."

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by mojo2

besson3c has the edge in smarts but Railroader is dirtier... Who would win? Not sure...not sure.

You think so? You don't want to know what I think about you. And I know more about you than you think.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Railroader

You think so? You don't want to know what I think about you. And I know more about you than you think.

Boy, there's a couple of things you need to learn if you are going to survive in this world.

1) If you pull a "weapon" on someone you'd better be prepared to use it.

2) I pretty much keep to myself and anything you THINK you know about me is probably wrong.

3) If you start spreading lies and false rumors about someone you should have deep pockets.

4)Confucius say: Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two (or more...think of EVERYONE who might be hurt) graves.

5) Don't mess with me because I will hurt your feelings.

NOTE: Nothing in this post is meant as a physical threat to anyone. I am speaking metaphorically or in terms of exchanges in court or on these pages.