[effgee]

I figured that thread title would get you in here ...

"US Accepts German Help After Katrina"

Originally Posted by www.dw-world.de

After initial hesitation, US officials on Sunday handed their German counterparts a "wish list" of emergency aid such as logistics experts, water purification plants and medical help for victims of hurricane Katrina. ...

... including 25 tons of meals that have already been flown to the US. A first plane with 10 tons of food arrived on Saturday, while a second delivery was due to arrive in Pensacola, Florida at about 9 p.m. UTC. ...

... Germany's flying hospital, Medevac, which was used in the tsunami areas, is expected to arrive in the US on Monday, according to German public broadcaster NDR.

The plane comes with "a complete team of about 40 doctors and nurses," Andreas Künkler, a German air force pilot who delivered the first shipment of aid to the US. "That's what makes this plane unique in the world." ...

This thread is not about:

• who caused what
• what should have happened when
• who is better
• who was right about whatever

You're most welcome to your own opinion regarding the aforementioned points, of course - but keep it to yourself or the poli lounge this time around.

It's just good to see that some folks aren't too proud to "jump over their own shadow" if necessary and that friends, even though they have their differences, will help each other when needed.

Doesn't undo the terrible tragedy - not even close but if it gives just one family a bit of hope, it's been worth it.




TI, if you think this is inappropriate and/or the "slugfest" starts over, feel free to lock this "pronto"

[Kevin]

Kuwait gave a bunch of money too.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Kuwait gave a bunch of money too.

Did they? I heard they donated some $500 million in oil, but I didn't hear about money.
NOTE: I'm not trying to get political over this; it's actually what I heard.

[Kevin]

You are probably right. It was oil.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Kevin

You are probably right. It was oil.

Oil is like water for them. They owe us bigtime anyhow.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by effgee

I figured that thread title would get you in here ...

The USA shouldn't have accepted the help. The comments made by German govt people are disgusting and they should keep their deutschemarks (or euros) for themselves.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Oil is like water for them. They owe us bigtime anyhow.

Yeah.. nice to see some appreciation from the ME once in awhile though.

[Salty]

This is good, it's crazy that they wouldn't ask for help.

[loki74]

Originally Posted by PacHead

The USA shouldn't have accepted the help. The comments made by German govt people are disgusting and they should keep their deutschemarks (or euros) for themselves.

Yeah... I heard about that. Pretty sick. Maybe this is their way of apologizing? *shrug* Anyway, whether or not the Germans have been 100% cool shouldn't have a bearing on us accepting money--it may save lives and help rebuild; the victims, I think, are more important than our American pride (which, believe me, I have a LOT of! ).

[lurkalot]

I know the usual references are to another comment made by another German official but perhaps the official comments by German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder balance things out a bit? He said something like this:
"Germany not only has a "historical duty'' to help the United States in a time of crisis because of the support it received rebuilding after World War II, but also because of the scope of the damage."

Besides, since when is offering assistance only acceptable absent any dissent on political issues? Several countries and entities have offered assistance to the people of the United States even though the leaders of these countries and organizations often disagree with certain policies of the United States Government.

Even on a personal level. Imagine. You need to go to the hospital, are unable to drive yourself and one of the political opponents on the MacNN boards offers you a ride. Will you accept the ride or would you prefer to die on a street corner? Will you tell that person to get lost hoping that a more acceptable ride will come along? If so that seems utterly foolish to me.

The people in the affected areas need assistance. It would in my opinion be foolish to turn away willingly offered relief efforts from those who are capable of genuinely assisting these people in need over such petty political disagreements. Who are you to reject such offers on their behalf anyway? Do you have this right merely because you were born within the same borders or share their nationality? Fortunately for the people in need the United States Government has already accepted some of the foreign assistance.

Situations like these show once again what a ridiculous concepts nationalism and national pride are.

[effgee]

Originally Posted by PacHead

The USA shouldn't have accepted the help. The comments made by German govt people are disgusting and they should keep their deutschemarks (or euros) for themselves.

Don't be silly - of course the US shouldn't refuse help when they need it.

From everything I've read/seen/heard, that remark was made by one guy, not "govt people". That being said, those comments made by Mr. Trittin were disrepectful and disgusting - the fact that the douche bag is our secretary of the environment makes it all the worse.

But it is also a fact that:

1. he has received/is still receiving the flak he deserves - not only from conservative cirlces, which was to be expected anyhow, but also from folks who are normally quite critical of the US.
2. he did not speak for anyone in the govt. or the population of Germany. He gave an interview, talked out of his ear and is now reaping what he sew - deservedly so.
3. if you were to tally up (word for word) every retarded remark made by nutters in Germany or the US over the past couple of years, neither country would have a diplomatic representation in the other. That is not how international relations work though - and for once, that is a good thing.

Let me put it this way - if it were up to me and every single one of the Germans whom I have overheard talking about this and/or spoken with directly - the moron would be made to walk from his home in Berlin to the US embassy, wearing a dunce cap and a sign around his neck, stating "I am a moron", to apologize directly to the embassador - all the while being followed by a horde of international camera teams.

[Cubeoid]

Talking about the wind leads nowhere because the wind has already passed.

[Athens]

at least Americans can never use the line We help every one else and no one helps us BS any more because the entire world offered help, even Cuba and the US rejected most of it when it was needed most.

[effgee]

Yo, Athens! Can we leave out the personal grudges (of any political couleur) for a change?

Instead, how about you post a link to an interesting article from a reputable (*) news source we ('Murricans + Euro-Trash) normally wouldn't stumble across. It'd be nice to get a POV from other countries and not get into a fight over it. (I do of course realize that this is rather unlikely - but it was the intent of my original post)


(*) - Reputable as in: Not some right-/left-wing blog and/or openly partisan rag. Something moderate and (somewhat) objective that we folks from other countries normally woudn't come across

[X-Ray]

Since when do people refuse help from friends. It would be incredibly arrogant to do so. I was stationed in Germany in the service and have fond memories of my time there. My first Christmas away from home and a Berliner family had me over for the holiday. Unfornately the wall was still up when I was there and I was never able to visit the town that my great grandparents came from - a small dorf outside Nordhausen. By the way how old is that Holzkopf Trittin? I wonder if he remembers a little adventure called "The Berlin Airlift"? Anyway, thank you Deutschland!

[Athens]

Originally Posted by effgee

Yo, Athens! Can we leave out the personal grudges (of any political couleur) for a change?

Instead, how about you post a link to an interesting article from a reputable (*) news source we ('Murricans + Euro-Trash) normally wouldn't stumble across. It'd be nice to get a POV from other countries and not get into a fight over it. (I do of course realize that this is rather unlikely - but it was the intent of my original post)


(*) - Reputable as in: Not some right-/left-wing blog and/or openly partisan rag. Something moderate and (somewhat) objective that we folks from other countries normally woudn't come across

oh no matter what I post it will be flamed right away, only 2 dozen posts in the last couple days to prove that. Besides what I would end up posting would just validate my own thoughts on this and cause more problems. Couple Examples...

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/natio...q20050904.html

"How come it's so easy to send planes in another country, to kill everyone in a second, to destroy lives," at a time when Americans need to serve their own country, she said. "We need to serve our country, and be there right now to rescue the rest of the people. We need the cash, we need the blood, we need the support, right now we need the prayers."

Dion, speaking from Las Vegas, said she's been finding it devastating. "I'm not thinking with my head, I'm talking with my heart," she said.

She, and the partners of her Las Vegas show, A New Day, have pledged $1 million US to aid the disaster victims. But, she says, the victims don't yet need money. "Eventually, they will need that money - in three months, in six months, they will need that money. Right now, they're praying for water."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4210648.stm

Many of those trapped by Katrina's floodwaters lived in dilapidated neighbourhoods that were long known to be exposed to disaster if the levees failed.

And a large number would have had no means to flee the region as the storm loomed - a recent US census found that one-fifth of the city's residents had no access to a car.

"We don't have transportation," one resident told WHBF-TV. "We're living paycheck to paycheck, it's not like we're just able to get up and leave."

http://www.cbc.ca/story/arts/nationa...a20050904.html

"They didn't have any place to go," she wrote. "They are the poor, black and white, who dwell in any city in great numbers; and they did what they felt they could do -- they huddled together in the strongest houses they could find. There was no way to up and leave and check into the nearest Ramada Inn."

Thousands more stayed in the city to help their fellow residents, she wrote, and struggled to save lives as the rest of the country watched, she said.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...e=&no_ads=

Three Toronto-area women sobbed and hugged their loved ones early Sunday evening after returning from a a hellish six days in New Orleans.

The experience made at least one so much happier she's a Canadian.

"I am so thankful, so grateful. We live in a wonderful country. We have no idea how lucky we are," Josie LoBianco told reporters at Pearson International Airport after flying back from Texas.

As to their experience in New Orleans -- a city that endured a hurricane, a flood and then a descent into near-total social breakdown in a matter of days -- she said: "It was horrendous, horrendous.

"Those poor people down there, they need help. They need so much help. And I don't think they're getting the help that they really need. They're being pushed from one bad situation into another."

[effgee]

According to the respective Wikipedia article (in German), the fudgepickle was born in 1954 (in Bremen, Northern Germany) - a bit late for any personal recollection of the "Luftbrücke".

And if someone's really ticked off about him - here's the URL for the contact page on his web site: Linkage. Feel free to voice your opinion and don't hold back a single thing.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Did they? I heard they donated some $500 million in oil, but I didn't hear about money.
NOTE: I'm not trying to get political over this; it's actually what I heard.

Yup, half a billion dollar worth of oil. Ditto for Venezuela, they offered cheap oil as well.

Originally Posted by PacHead

The USA shouldn't have accepted the help. The comments made by German govt people are disgusting and they should keep their deutschemarks (or euros) for themselves.

If you don't want the help, don't take it. It's a voluntary offer.

PS We don't have Deutsche Mark for about three years now

[effgee]

Originally Posted by Athens

oh no matter what I post it will be flamed right away, only 2 dozen posts in the last couple days to prove that. ...

Seriously, Athens - just how do you expect people to react when you post a thread with he title "Fsck America"? And even though your post was nowhere near as inflammatory as the title could have lead one to believe, you - nobody else - set the stage for what followed in that thread.

You simply can't start out a conversation by insulting someone and then be surprised when people yell back at you. You knew damn well about the sensitivities of some of the folks around here but you had to label your thread "Fsck America" anyway. And you're surprised that they reacted with the same amount of emotion that you put in your initial post? By all means, do speak your mind - but if you want to start a conversation and not a pissing match, it might be a good idea to do so in a tone of voice which you'd find acceptable if it were directed at you.

I'm probably one of the least likely peeps around here to be found with their nose up the collective rectum of the current US administration but while I personally hold no grudge against you, you will receive very little support from me in this particular matter - you are not the victim here.

It'd be cool if we could pause the regurgitation of hurt feelings from other threads for a couple of posts.

[Artful Dodger]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Yup, half a billion dollar worth of oil.

Not exactly. Kuwait gave 400 mil in oil products and 100 mil in humanitarian aid.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by effgee

Seriously, Athens - just how do you expect people to react when you post a thread with he title "Fsck America"? And even though your post was nowhere near as inflammatory as the title could have lead one to believe, you - nobody else - set the stage for what followed in that thread.

You simply can't start out a conversation by insulting someone and then be surprised when people yell back at you. You knew damn well about the sensitivities of some of the folks around here but you had to label your thread "Fsck America" anyway. And you're surprised that they reacted with the same amount of emotion that you put in your intial post? By all means, do speak your mind - but if you want to start a conversation and not a pissing match, it might be a good idea to do so in a tone of voice which you'd find acceptable if it were directed at you.

I'm probably one of the least likely peeps around here who you will find with their nose up the collective rectum of the current US administration, and while I personally hold no grudge against you, you will receive very little support from me in this particular matter - you are not the victim here.

It'd be cool if we could pause the regurgitation of hurt feelings from other threads for a couple of posts.

Do I need to post a few dozen before that, oh this has been going on for the last year

[Artful Dodger]

Athens...I hate reading these threads, as many of them devolve into a petty arguments between you and another member. You really make this site less enjoyable. Thanks.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Artful Dodger

Athens...I hate reading these threads, as many of them devolve into a petty arguments between you and another member. You really make this site less enjoyable. Thanks.

Thank you for your contribution to making this site less enjoyable.

My suggestion is to not read threads you hate reading.

Brainiac.

[Athens]

at least Americans can never use the line We help every one else and no one helps us BS any more because the entire world offered help, even Cuba and the US rejected most of it when it was needed most.

I posted a very valid comment which related to the topic, not my fualt some one else turned it into something else. Perhaps you should direct your anger at people that do the attacking.

Originally Posted by The Godfather

Athens. Sorry to be uninformed, but aren't there some Canadian problems you need to worry about BEFORE you worry about U.S. problems?

Originally Posted by The Godfather

No. I am genuinely uninformed. Is Canada really that un-eventful?

If there's something Athens should bitch about, that is Canada's unemployment ratio? (unless he considers it a non-issue, of course).

It is fashionable to point and laugh at the victims of shock problems (referring to the whole U.S. and the mess in their hands), while keeping shut about one's own persistent stagnant situation.

Originally Posted by The Godfather

The only thing that stuck out in the original post is that a Canadian individual is going to bug the U.S. Gvmt.. I didn't know Athens could start a campaign to change other countries' laws. My point is that his complaints would be more productive in the country he votes in.

I mean, how can this thread remain on track if the thread title defies all logic? Canadian person campaigning for U.S. law change?

Originally Posted by The Godfather

Athens' #1 business is pooping on the U.S.

Originally Posted by PacHead

Which government are you going to bug ? I suggest you bug your own.

Originally Posted by LilWolfChokingOnCigs68

Athens, this is quite possibly the dumbest post you've made here. You cannot just 'convert' a car to an electric car. You'd require a lot of batteries, a custom motor/transmission, and you'd need regenerative braking in order to get back the power you're losing whenever you had to slow down. On top of that, weren't you saying you wanted a riced out ghetto fast and furious honda prelude with a bodykit and cheesy chrome rims just a few months ago?

Originally Posted by budster101

Why can't this be in one of the other dozen threads about Katrina? Are you so self-important that you need to make multiple threads on one topic?

Originally Posted by Railroader

Wrong forum.

Originally Posted by Railroader

Echo.

Originally Posted by kilbey

Some much for Canadian citizens.

Originally Posted by kilbey

Don't you get tired of trolling on these boards with your anti-American posts?

You need to find the positives in life. Try to help your Canadian "Phycos".

Originally Posted by Zimphire

This is yet another non-issue being exaggerated by the drama queens

Originally Posted by Artful Dodger

Athens...I hate reading these threads, as many of them devolve into a petty arguments between you and another member. You really make this site less enjoyable. Thanks.

[Artful Dodger]

Originally Posted by analogika

Thank you for your contribution to making this site less enjoyable.

My suggestion is to not read threads you hate reading.

Brainiac.

wow, you demonstrate a keen grasp for the obvious. this will take you far, so please continue to cultivate it.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Artful Dodger

wow, you demonstrate a keen grasp for the obvious. this will take you far, so please continue to cultivate it.

Artful Dodger...I hate reading these threads, as many of them devolve into a petty arguments between you and another member. You really make this site less enjoyable. Thanks.

[Artful Dodger]

Originally Posted by Athens

I posted a very valid comment which related to the topic, not my fualt some one else turned it into something else. Perhaps you should direct your anger at people that do the attacking.

You seem to be the common denominator.

[as2]

I was more impressed by the offers of aid by Cuba and some of the other not so 'USA' friendly nations.

[Artful Dodger]

Originally Posted by Athens

Artful Dodger...I hate reading these threads, as many of them devolve into a petty arguments between you and another member. You really make this site less enjoyable. Thanks.

wow...you are crafty. I haven't seen this anywhere else.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Artful Dodger

You seem to be the common denominator.

Actually I would say 8 posters are the common denominator to most of these petty fights on the boards. Im just the focus target lately because of 2 posts.

http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lounge/268357/america/

http://forums.macnn.com/95/political-war-lounge/265689/the-way-bible-should-sold-picture/

[Athens]

Originally Posted by as2

I was more impressed by the offers of aid by Cuba and some of the other not so 'USA' friendly nations.

Me too, but of course Castro is also playing a political game. Personally I thought the US should have accepted the Aid just to see if they really would have helped.

[as2]

Originally Posted by Athens

Me too, but of course Castro is also playing a political game. Personally I thought the US should have accepted the Aid just to see if they really would have helped.

I think a lot of people are playing political games, but I doubt that the USA would have been so quick to offer aid to some of the countries the don't feel are their closes allies.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by as2

I think a lot of people are playing political games, but I doubt that the USA would have been so quick to offer aid to some of the countries the don't feel are their closes allies.

American Aid usally isn't attached to allies status but self interest reasons. Even some one the US Administration hates, if there is some self interest that can be obtained out of it, then it will happen. Just my opinion on it though.

[badidea]

Originally Posted by effgee

You're most welcome to your own opinion regarding the aforementioned points, of course - but keep it to yourself or the poli lounge this time around.

I really liked how you started this thread effgee but it seems that some on MacNN just can't do it...

Could some moderator please remove the posts from members who's name starts with a large "A"? Thank you!

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Artful Dodger

wow, you demonstrate a keen grasp for the obvious. this will take you far, so please continue to cultivate it.

I just felt it appropriate to respond in kind.

[Artful Dodger]

that's ok, everyone makes mistakes.

onward...please....let's not contribute to Athens' messed up agenda.

Effgee had something good going here. Apologies to Effgee.
Gotta give a hand to the following countries:

Kuwait: $400 mil. in oil prods. and $100 mil. in humanitarian aid
Australia: $7.7 milion to Red Cross as well as team sending teams of specialists for assistance
Japan: $200,000 to Red Cross and $300,000 in aid and supplies
Qatar: $100 mil.
Venezuela: 1 mil. barrels of oil and $5 mil. contribution
Great Briatian, Spain, Italy, Germany all are contributing in the form of aid and money.

On the homefront, TEXAS takes the cake. I visited Texas once, and I will never forget how nice texans are.

I really didn't expect this much international outpour. Very happy to see I'm wrong.

[BasketofPuppies]

Originally Posted by Artful Dodger

Venezuela: 1 mil. barrels of oil and $5 mil. contribution

Has the U.S. accepted this? Considering the relationship between Chavez and the U.S, I thought it would be rejected. (And I don't mean Pat Robertson's comments; he hasn't mattered for some time now.)

[Weyland-Yutani]

Of course the EU nations will help! That was never a question. Spain will give all the resources she can to help the Katarina victims.

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2005/0...125915127.html

cheers

W-Y

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Artful Dodger

that's ok, everyone makes mistakes.

onward...please....let's not contribute to pointless arguing.

Effgee had something good going here. Apologies to Effgee.
Gotta give a hand to the following countries:

Kuwait: $400 mil. in oil prods. and $100 mil. in humanitarian aid
Australia: $7.7 milion to Red Cross as well as team sending teams of specialists for assistance
Japan: $200,000 to Red Cross and $300,000 in aid and supplies
Qatar: $100 mil.
Venezuela: 1 mil. barrels of oil and $5 mil. contribution
Great Briatian, Spain, Italy, Germany all are contributing in the form of aid and money.
Canada in the form of aid, oil and money.

On the homefront, TEXAS takes the cake. I visited Texas once, and I will never forget how nice texans are.

I really didn't expect this much international outpour. Very happy to see I'm wrong.

Fixed

[Artful Dodger]

Originally Posted by BasketofPuppies

Has the U.S. accepted this? Considering the relationship between Chavez and the U.S, I thought it would be rejected. (And I don't mean Pat Robertson's comments; he hasn't mattered for some time now.)

I'm unsure if the US has officially accepted this aid. It seems like Citgo, on behalf of its Venezualan conglomerate, is the main player in this... and they are making progress. The CEO visited the stricken south and cut a check on the spot for 25 Gs to the local red cross. It would be foolish and vain not to accept this help, imho.

Check out these two sites for further info:

http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=45807

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1743

[Artful Dodger]

Originally Posted by Athens

Fixed

I think it's time for your morning breast feeding. Sucking is what you do best.

[Athens]

are you asking me to suck you? Careful I might bite!

[Artful Dodger]

keep dreaming. that role is assigned to your mom, plus she likes it when you bite.

[BasketofPuppies]

Moderators, where have you been the last few days? ThinkInsane's sticky is all well and good, but if you're not going to follow through, it's pointless.

[effgee]

I should've known better - fudgepickels. Here have some trout ...

And yes, I already sent a PM asking for this monstrosity of a thread to be locked.

[ThinkInsane]

Some of you really are too much. Have you no self-control? Even when the thread starter takes pains to make sure the discussion stays civil and on topic, you just can't help yourselves. Amazing.