[Rolling Bones]

Has anyone ever seen HELL?

It seems everyone who has a near death experience sees a bright light and has a fairly pleasant experience before being revived?

[loki74]

Yeah sure, I've been in hell all my life until this past Christmas... it was then that I switched to Mac!!

Okay, I guess I shouldn't joke like that. (but I couldnt resist). You do ask a good question though... why is it that nobody has seen evil stuff in a near death experienc? Are they really glimpsing what is beyond, or does the brain just do this as a reaction to the experience--something physiological?

Definately food for thought... I won't delve into my beliefs, though, as it might offend one or more people here.

[budster101]

It's a purely physiological experience. It's the same as before you pass out.

Tunnel Vission
Then a light, then black.

I've almost died 3 times. Never been actually dead and come back though.

Some think that when you die you are reborn and the light is the opening at the end of the birth canal...

I'm leaning towards Buddhism, or specifically Budsterism.

[Warung]

Originally Posted by Rolling Bones

Has anyone ever seen HELL?

Just switch on CNN these days...

[spacefreak]

And turn the volume up.

[meelk]

I remember seeing a tv special where they interviewed people who did see hell. Not everyone sees a bright light etc. The people who had seen hell/demons/etc on the show changed their lives dramatically afterwards and became incredible, upstanding, God fearing individuals.
You dont hear about those reports because the people arent eager to talk about it.

[Warung]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

And turn the volume up.

Yep, they are sure giving Dubya hell for his incompetence, aren't they!

[budster101]

Not cool. (pun intended)

--

Anyhow,

I used to live in hell for a while. Not a fun place, unless you are masochistic.

[iDriveX]

No, scientifically speaking, there is justification for the things your brain sees during the final stages of life. The brain is programmed to go into a shock mode and ease you into death because dying is very painful. It creates colorful, pleasing images. This is the most vivid in drowning victims. That's the best way to go if you are going to go. As scary as it sounds the hallucinations are supposedly amazing.

[11011001]

Originally Posted by iDriveX

No, scientifically speaking, there is justification for the things your brain sees during the final stages of life. The brain is programmed to go into a shock mode and ease you into death because dying is very painful. It creates colorful, pleasing images. This is the most vivid in drowning victims. That's the best way to go if you are going to go. As scary as it sounds the hallucinations are supposedly amazing.

How would evolution ever bring this about? What advantage does an organism gain by dying peacefully? It has no impact on it's ability to produce offspring, or it's likelihood of survival (since it's dying).

I don't like this idea.

[JoshuaZ]

Yeah, I've seen hell. Hell is working tech support when a virus strike your college campus the opening weekend and you have to go door to door with anti-virus software. Thats hell, and you'll go mad trying to survive.

[Chuckmcd]

Originally Posted by iDriveX

This is the most vivid in drowning victims. That's the best way to go if you are going to go. As scary as it sounds the hallucinations are supposedly amazing.

Not trying to start an argument, I'd just really like to know how in the world one would know this? I wouldn't think there would be very many near death drowning survivors... but I've been wrong before.

(edit)Also... I've heard of several near death hell experiences too. I'm am skeptical of both the bright light experiences and the more frightening ones I have heard. I have heard one or two that I feel certain are truth... largely because I knew the individual sharing the experience very well, and have no reason to doubt them.

[BigBadWolf]

I knew someone from Hellgate, MO

[IonCable]

I've been to Hell, Michigan. It froze over too.

[BasketofPuppies]

Originally uttered by Homer Simpson
Oh Doctor, I was in a wonderful place, full of fire and brimstone, and there were all these guys in red pajamas sticking pitchforks in my butt.

...

[andi*pandi]

I've been to Hell. Nice little town in the Caymans.

or did you mean hell.com?

[wdlove]

Those that have actually seen Hell are no longer with us.

[Millennium]

I don't believe in a hell, but if such a thing does exist then seeing it must be a very traumatic experience. It wouldn't surprise me at all if people who've seen it don't want to talk about it. I probably wouldn't want to talk about it either.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Rolling Bones

Has anyone ever seen HELL?

It seems everyone who has a near death experience sees a bright light and has a fairly pleasant experience before being revived?

http://amightywind.com/hell/aboutsounds.htm

[TubaMuffins]

I have a similar question, just food for thought though because it could provoke a locked thread furhter down the line. Why can't I or anyone else sell their soul to God, why does everyone talk of only the devil buying souls? This is rhetorical because I don't want to start a flame war.

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by TubaMuffins

Why can't I or anyone else sell their soul to God, why does everyone talk of only the devil buying souls?

God won't use Paypal, but the devil....

[TubaMuffins]

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

God won't use Paypal, but the devil....

hahaha
that probably explains it best.

[iREZ]

i was dead for 40 some seconds (well i flat lined for that long) during my accident, and i didnt see any lights or feel any euphoric experience...i got gyped!!!!

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by TubaMuffins

I have a similar question, just food for thought though because it could provoke a locked thread furhter down the line. Why can't I or anyone else sell their soul to God, why does everyone talk of only the devil buying souls?

Have you actually tried it?

[TubaMuffins]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Have you actually tried it?

yes, but i don't know if it worked case i haven't tested it yet

[iDriveX]

Here's a good article for all of you:

http://near-death.com/experiences/skeptic04.html

And as far as evolution is concerned, it may not be a trait that is favored in the opposite sex, thus continuing on in geneology. This is simply a phenomenon called cerebral anoxia, where the oxygen starved brain goes into panic mode and starts releasing chemicals uncontrolled. These chemicals then cause hallucinations, a tunnel vision in the ocular area of the brain, causing you to "See" things that aren't there. The chemicals travel through the frontal lobes of the brain affecting your sense of self awareness or what the previous article describes as the "I" part of the brain making you think you are having an out of body experience. The same thing has been described with serial killers where they say they are actually outside of their body and watching themselves kill their victim. It's simply an uncontrolled release of chemicals that results in the dysfunction of the human body.

Science has tried to prove out of body experiences, There have been a few studies where scientists have written a cryptic message near the cieling of a room where a high risk patient is being operated on, when the patient dies and they are able to bring them back, the describe having a near death experience, they describe being brought back to life, "watching" the doctors from the ceiling, but none can recall the sign. This is also very familiar to me. Too many times, I have anticipated something like Christmas Morning or going on a vacation when I was younger with my family. And all night long I dream about it and it physically, mentally, everything, feels like I was on that trip or opening those presents and I wake up and I'm like "DAMN!" it's only been 10 minutes. BUT IT FELT SO REAL! Our brain has perceptions of what doctors do when they are bringing someone back to life. Just like I Know what it's like to open presents. This anticipation plays in our brain like a movie theater would present a film. Your brain uses things like what a general operating room looks like, what your doctor looked like before you went into surgery, the gown you were wearing, etc.

[iDriveX]

Originally Posted by TubaMuffins

I have a similar question, just food for thought though because it could provoke a locked thread furhter down the line. Why can't I or anyone else sell their soul to God, why does everyone talk of only the devil buying souls? This is rhetorical because I don't want to start a flame war.

Too bad, cause I'm answering.

First some general assumptions:

- You were created by God
- He still exists

You can't sell your soul to God because it's his soul to do what he wants. That's why God condemns you to Hell or accepts you into his kingdom.I suppose you could sell your soul to the devil only by completely turning away from God (as I have heard that Hell is actually not fire and brimstone but the complete lack of God in your life). But I have also heard the argument that you are only allowed to live but by the complete grace of God. So if you were to completely turn away you would drop dead. Unless of course it means that God didn't turn away from you...

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Rolling Bones

Has anyone ever seen HELL?

It seems everyone who has a near death experience sees a bright light and has a fairly pleasant experience before being revived?

There is many many many documented cases of people having hellish afterlife experiences.

Look them up.

When they come back, they usually are changed people.

[jcadam]

:burp:

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by iDriveX

Too bad, cause I'm answering.

First some general assumptions:

- You were created by God
- He still exists

You can't sell your soul to God because it's his soul to do what he wants.

That's one way to explain it. Another way of explaining it is that God doesn't want to 'own' souls. Ownership creates problems; if God 'owns' a soul then it cannot turn away from Him, rendering choice meaningless. Not only that, but it leaves open the problem of abusability; if God already owns your soul, what reason is there for faith, since you've basically guaranteed your salvation already? Investigations into the lives of the 9/11 attackers showed that they had quite a penchant for alcohol, strip clubs, and many other things forbidden by Islam, and it even makes a kind of sense; if you've been guaranteed entry into Paradise then why not have some fun with your effective immunity from morality?

None of these would trouble the Devil at all, but the system poses too many problems from God's side of things. You may dedicate your soul to God, but He won't accept ownership of it; you keep it and maintain it as you see fit. This meshes well with Jesus' teachings about dedicating one's property to God in Matthew 15 and Mark 7. At the time there was a custom which the Israelites called corban, whereby a person could devote all of his possessions to God; these possessions were then considered the property of the temple. However, the process could be easily abused; in the chapters I mentioned above, Jesus considers a person who practices corban to escape the duty of caring for his parents in their old age. Under Jesus' model, property dedicated to God is kept by the giver, but it is expected to be used for godly purposes; to do otherwise is hypocritical. If this is true of earthly possessions, why would it not be true of souls?

For the record, I don't believe that one can truly sell one's soul anyway, at least not in any sense that conveys actual ownership. However, the concept is certainly fascinating.

[iDriveX]

So you're making an assumption then that the creator creates and then instantly gives up ownership of his creation. Almost like an artist donating his paintings to a worthy cause? Interesting concept. But I don't believe that God owning our soul would limit our choice. Think about it in an earthly way.

"This is my Dog."

You own the dog. In a lot of cases, you paid for your dog with money from someone (a breeder perhaps) who previously owned it. You expect certain things out of your dog, not to soil in the house, not to bite people, not to bark insesantly, these are your commandments, if the dog breaks them he has "sinned" against you. The dog though does have a choice. And most dogs will use their freewill whenever they want. They can always choose to make in the house, or they can go outside and make their owner happy.

I also don't know about your argument for God not accepting ownership of your soul. Jesus only spoke of "Worldly Posessions". He did not speak about heavenly possessions. And only God knows if your Soul is a worldly possession only created for this world, or a heavenly possession created to serve and honor him.

Oh and for my record, I actually don't really believe my argument about the dog, it was only used as a counterpoint, I don't think that animals are guided by anything but instinct at all time and make no rational decisions nor weigh consequences, thus negating free will.

[BlueSky]

I have seen Hell.

[analogika]

The devil's big on silicone, apparently.

[teknopimp]

Originally Posted by Rolling Bones

Has anyone ever seen HELL?

during an acid trip i was in hell in a cavern and looked into a pool of magma and saw Satan's reflection. he looked at me and winked. in another trip i saw myself transform in to Satan (horns, hair, etc). neither was that bad. i'm convinced hell is a place on earth or within the imagination.

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by iDriveX

You own the dog. In a lot of cases, you paid for your dog with money from someone (a breeder perhaps) who previously owned it. You expect certain things out of your dog, not to soil in the house, not to bite people, not to bark insesantly, these are your commandments, if the dog breaks them he has "sinned" against you. The dog though does have a choice. And most dogs will use their freewill whenever they want. They can always choose to make in the house, or they can go outside and make their owner happy.

Well if the dog would go out door to door and harass the other dogs in the neighborhood that didn't accept me as their master, then I think I would forgive him for pooping on the floor.

[ReggieX]

Yep.

[iDriveX]

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

Well if the dog would go out door to door and harass the other dogs in the neighborhood that didn't accept me as their master, then I think I would forgive him for pooping on the floor.

LMAO...That's fantastic. Seriously.

[Fred_Cokebottle]

[bstone]

[dav]

so
so you think you can tell
heaven from hell
blue skies from pain
can you tell a green field, from a cold steel rail
a smile from a veil
do you think you can tell?

[scaught]

Originally Posted by budster101

Some think that when you die you are reborn and the light is the opening at the end of the birth canal...

i thought that was my idea. i dont know that ive ever heard anyone else say it.

[budster101]

No, it was my idea.

Ok, it wasn't my idea. I heard someone say it. I think...

[teknopimp]

Originally Posted by budster101

Some think that when you die you are reborn and the light is the opening at the end of the birth canal...

so it could be argued that darkness during a near death experience could be mean going back into the birth canal, therefore hell couldn't be that bad?

[el chupacabra]

Originally Posted by TubaMuffins

Why can't I or anyone else sell their soul to God, why does everyone talk of only the devil buying souls? .

Selling souls is just a figure of speech. Your soul isn't anyones property till ya peg it.

The devil wants your soul cause misery craves company. god wants your soul cause she love you, she would hate for you to choose the other guy but she aint gonna chain you up and keep you so it would make no sense anyway to sell your soal to god. You make the choice who to go with, as far as some religions are concerned.

[historylme]

Man acid trips... mostly fun, except when teh voices from down under starcalling. Long distance bills suck.

what are we talking about?

[scaught]

Originally Posted by budster101

No, it was my idea.

Ok, it wasn't my idea. I heard someone say it. I think...

hmm. weird. i maybe posted it here at some point. and youre running around spouting off my idears.

la chiesa de scaught!!