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besson3c · Sep 20, 2005, 02:29 PM

(sorry, forums gobbled up my last version of this thread)

http://www.macnn.com/articles/05/09/...4sp2.released/

This service pack released today looks like it might *finally* make Entourage work properly in multi-node Exchange environments (the setup Microsoft recommends).

What the hell has taken Microsoft so long in getting Entourage to work with Exchange? It has taken them YEARS. It's not like they didn't write Exchange or something...

Yes, I know, the Mac BU is geographically separated from the Mail/Exchange team, but comon... It shouldn't take this long to get together to get this to work:

Office v. X
Office v. X service packs (don't know how many there were)
Office 2004
Office 2004 SP1
Office 2004 SP2

How many years has this been?

Where's James234230498? Maybe he can enlighten me...

alphasubzero949 · Sep 20, 2005, 02:35 PM

It's because MS makes professional-grade software. You know; it takes time.

analogika · Sep 20, 2005, 02:36 PM

alpha beat me to it.

kmkkid · Sep 20, 2005, 02:40 PM

"what takes Microsoft so long?"

This is like "what's the meaning of life?"

No one knows.

besson3c · Sep 20, 2005, 02:42 PM

<Bush whiney voice>It's hard work! It takes time! We're working hard!</Bush>

This is a great example illustrating why the Free/GNU software philosophy is vastly superior to propietary lock-in. In the Free/GNU world, this would have either been fixed ages ago, or people would have been able to move onto the next thing that worked (e.g. a fork in project development picking up the reigns where the previous project fell apart)

I wish Apple would open up more of its stuff (e.g. the iLife shared libraries). Once a window manager is created for the Linux world that offers the user experience that OS X does, I'm switching.

rickey939 · Sep 20, 2005, 02:59 PM

Still no "Out-Of-Office" support in the Exchange integration...you need to set-up a rule and/or use OWA to set-up O-o-O...that's ridiculous.

besson3c · Sep 20, 2005, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by rickey939

Still no "Out-Of-Office" support in the Exchange integration...you need to set-up a rule and/or use OWA to set-up O-o-O...that's ridiculous.

Please keep us posted with other things you find out about this update. It will take our administrators some time to install the necessary upgrade to the Exchange servers to enable this new functionality.

screamingFit · Sep 21, 2005, 05:38 AM

My guess? Exchange client integration with Macs would cause people to start switching in the enterprise. Not tons of people but I know several that that is one of the things holding them back from hooking up their Mac full-time. Anything besides Windows/IE on OWA on Exchange 2000 and below are just plain awful (haven't seen 2003 but assume it's the same - needs Windows/IE to look and perform nice).

If I was a normal user at the business I work at, this would be the last piece to being able to use a Mac full-time at work. Unfortunately, due to my position as Administrator, I need to run all the crappy MMC consoles (Terminal Services or Windows Emulation won't cut it, either).

rickey939 · Sep 21, 2005, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by screamingFit

(haven't seen 2003 but assume it's the same - needs Windows/IE to look and perform nice).

The OWA interface on Exchange 2003 is dramatically better for both the Mac and Windows platform; however, the Mac side is limited of course as always.

besson3c · Sep 21, 2005, 12:36 PM

It looks like our best prospects for replacing Exchange are Novell's open source Hula project. It is coming along quite nicely, and there were rumors that Apple might integrate support into OS X Mail.

Paco500 · Sep 21, 2005, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Once a window manager is created for the Linux world that offers the user experience that OS X does, I'm switching.

Hey- I like linux as much as the next guy, but I think you're not gonna be switching for a loooooong time.

By that same token, I hear lots of my linux friends say things like "as soon as the Mac is as flexible as linux, I'm switching."

Two different beasts, different design goals, different strengths, different weaknesses.

xargos · Sep 21, 2005, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by screamingFit

Unfortunately, due to my position as Administrator, I need to run all the crappy MMC consoles (Terminal Services or Windows Emulation won't cut it, either).

That sucks... getting stuck as an admin on a Microsoft network. Fortunately for me, the place where I work uses a Novell Netware based network. Because of Novell's interest in the Linux platform, things are looking up. Much of the administrative control can be run through Java based interfaces and web browsers, so for that part Windows isn't really necessary. Unfortunately we also run software that does require Windows...

besson3c · Sep 21, 2005, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Paco500

Hey- I like linux as much as the next guy, but I think you're not gonna be switching for a loooooong time.

By that same token, I hear lots of my linux friends say things like "as soon as the Mac is as flexible as linux, I'm switching."

Two different beasts, different design goals, different strengths, different weaknesses.

I think that so much about Linux is an inevitable force. Consumers will always side with the open-source philosophy as long as it makes sense to do so (i.e. time vs. expense vs. practicality relationships work in their favor), it's just a matter of when or if it will work in the consumer's favor.

However, if you look at Apple slowly and methodically chipping away at reasons to not own a Mac, you can see the same sort of thing happening in Linux. There hasn't been a new killer application since the internet. If you count the whole "digital lifestyle" thing as a killer app, even if Linux doesn't embrace this, there is still a huge market of users who haven't jumped aboard this bandwagon yet, or may never do so. To me, much of computing in the last several years has just been a refinement over stuff we've been doing for years.

With that, it seems inevitable to me that Linux will soon get a handle over these sorts of tasks. Once it has done so, I think people will start moving to it in large numbers (many think that this migration is already taking place).
Here is where I think Linux is at:

- needs better software install scheme. If a dominant distro for newbies becomes popular, vendors can easily develop binaries for these apps. Linux will just need an open GUI installer/uninstaller for developers to use.

- usability. Once there is a sizable population of people in which to design for, I'm sure some group will come up with a highly usable window manager that serves the needs of this newbie population. Up to this point, this population didn't really exist.

- Office apps: pretty good shape there

- Internet apps: pretty good shape there too

- Migration tools: once WINE improves, this will help. I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple contributing to WINE.

- security/stability/performance: fine

If you look at the same picture years ago, several things in this checklist wouldn't have checked out.