[Cody Dawg]

As a lot of you remember from a thread that I previously posted before about how local cops like to taser people (Florida residents beware driving through Delray, Delray Beach, Boynton, or Boynton Beach), now we have a situation where, last night, one cop shot another at our Citrus Bowl.

Read here.

I don't know how this could have happened, to be honest, but something needs to be done. Neither one of them should have been shooting their guns, in my opinion.

Now, this is a case when a taser would have been acceptable.

Very sad and unbelievable.

[Mastrap]

"To serve and protect"

To be fair, if the second officer had no way to know that the plainclothes officer was actually a policeman then I can kind of understand his reaction. You don't want a madman pulling a gun in a crowd.

[OldManMac]

Very scetchy info in that article. I think judgement should be reserved until all the known facts are assembled.

[ghporter]

Obviously the uniformed officer had no idea that the guy waving a gun around was another cop. Would YOU have known that? Probably not.

The real problem is hooliganism at any sporting event, and college sports in particular. People get downright retarded at these events, and they just plain old shed their civilized restraint. Why would the fans of a WINNING team riot and destroy cars and property? (This has happened as recently as last spring after the NCAA basketball finals.)

So an undercover cop investigating (apparently) underage drinking gets involved in a fight, and a uniformed cop responds to the same fight. The undercover cop starts shooting, and the uniformed cop, not knowing the shooter is a cop, shoots him. Sad, but how could you avoid such events without blowing the cover of any and every undercover officer?

[Cody Dawg]

My point is that this is a case where tasering was more appropriate than firing guns.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Why would the fans […] riot […]?

Alcohol.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

"To serve and protect"

To be fair, if the second officer had no way to know that the plainclothes officer was actually a policeman then I can kind of understand his reaction. You don't want a madman pulling a gun in a crowd.

why did the undercover have his gun out, why did he shoot a fan, i don't blame the uniform cop in any way.

[James L]

There is no way, from the information, we can tell if tasers would have been appropriate here Cody.... way to little information. I look at it from this point of view:

1) The under cover cop MAY have been able to use a taser instead of a gun, but we don't have enough information for that.

2) The uniformed cop did his job. Cody, you don't taser someone who is shooting a firearm at you and the crowd... you shoot to kill them. It is a sad, but necessary, fact of life.

How did you mean the taser should have been used in this story?

[Cody Dawg]

I'm talking to a police officer who is a friend and she says that pepper spray should have been used instead.

No one would have been killed.

[James L]

But, on WHICH cop? Cody, you can't seriously be saying that if someone is shooting AT a crowd, and at YOU, that you want to pepper spray and taser them?

I have seen pepper spray hit people directly in the face during a takedown and have NO effect. I have also watched a drug induced idiot be tasered 4 times before he went down.

How many people can the assailant shoot while you are using those non lethal methods of submission?

When someone is shooting at innocent people, or at you, you shoot to kill them.

So, either you are not typing clearly, or the police officer you talked to is basing a decision without all the facts.

I will ask again for clarification.... WHICH cop could have used pepper spray and/or a taser? The undercover one (which I may agree with), or the uniformed cop (which I don't agree with)?

Cheers,

James

[wdlove]

Hi Cody,

Yes, any loss of life is very sad. Mistakes can happen with split minute decisions.

[taurus]

Here's a link to another article: Orlando Sentinel

A Saturday afternoon tailgating party before the University of Central Florida's home opener: a brawl breaks out. An undercover officer shot in the back, killed by another policeman. A young man also shot, no one's sure by whom.

In less than 20 minutes, the staccato details about the police shooting rippled around the Florida Citrus Bowl -- murmured from the lips of parking attendants or shouted in slurred, drunken speech across the streets.

Tears mangled black-and-gold face paint on a trio of women, their school pride transformed into school sorrow. Like many who saw the shooting, they were too distraught to do more than nod. The crowd still poured into the stadium to watch the game.

Dozens of witnesses were corralled into police custody, but more had watched the scene unfold.

On the sidewalk, 23-year-old Jim Reidy repeated his version of the tale. "OK, I saw it all from beginning to end," Reidy said. "It started off with a brawl."

A scuffle broke out in the rows of cars, amid tailgaters and behind a row of six portable toilets, he said. A plainclothes officer, the University of Central Florida Police Department's Mario Jenkins, wrestled with another man.

"It went a little haywire," Reidy said. "He [the officer] had 20 to 30 people standing around, throwing beer at him. Things started to go bad. That's when he whipped out a gun, waving it around. And that's when the other officer started to shoot," Reidy said.

Nicole Jorgensen watched Jenkins confront the other man. She saw the beer fly. She heard the shots.

"He [Jenkins] was coughing up a lot of blood," she said. "It looked like his life was over."

Several people continued to tailgate inside the crime scene, cups brimming with beer and their gas grill a few feet from the black-and-yellow police line.

This article states that the undercover officer was attempting to break up a fight. He was surrounded by 20 to 30 people throwing beer at him. 20 vs. 1 is a deadly force situation. If it was 1 vs. 1 with a beer bottle, then you could argue wether less-than-lethal force should have been used.

I think ultimately this tragedy was the result of poor communication between the two agencies, where the Orlando PD didn't know there was undercover officers in the crowd.

[moonmonkey]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Alcohol.

Then they should have organized adequate quantities or allowed people to bring their own.

Edit: I was being sarcastic, alcohol should be banned at sporting events.

[Cody Dawg]

I think the solution is NO alcohol at any games, period.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I think the solution is NO alcohol at any games, period.

Blasphemy!

[Cody Dawg]

It serves them all right. Those people throwing beer on the cop are partially responsible for the cop's death. They should be held accountable. I hope they remember that for the rest of their lives.

[moonmonkey]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I think the solution is NO alcohol at any games, period.

What about allowing Americans to drink alcohol at a reasonable age, so when they finally get hold of alcohol, they don't feel the need to binge drink, shout "whoop whoop" while pumping their fists, and do naked dive bombs into swimming pools.

[moonmonkey]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

It serves them all right. Those people throwing beer on the cop are partially responsible for the cop's death. They should be held accountable. I hope they remember that for the rest of their lives.

No, the cop pulling a gun on unarmed people, and opening fire into a crowd is totally at fault.
He obviously lost control and the other policeman did his duty "Protect and Serve" and shot him.

Luckily he shot him in time before anyone innocent was killed.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by moonmonkey

What about allowing Americans to drink alcohol at a reasonable age, so when they finally get hold of alcohol, they don't feel the need to binge drink, shout "whoop whoop" while pumping their fists, and do naked dive bombs into swimming pools.

Reasonable age? Like 26? I agree.

I've seen 40 year old do what you described. So no, lowering the age wont help.

[Cody Dawg]

Yeah.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by moonmonkey

Then they should have organized adequate quantities or allowed people to bring their own.

Organized adequate quantities? They shouldn't allow any alcohol at such large sports events. Then there wouldn't be riots any more and large sports events would be events for the whole family again instead of just for drunken thugs to live out their aggressions.

[JoshuaZ]

Florida... why do you always hear about stuff like this from there?

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by moonmonkey

No, the cop pulling a gun on unarmed people, and opening fire into a crowd is totally at fault.
He obviously lost control and the other policeman did his duty "Protect and Serve" and shot him.

Luckily he shot him in time before anyone innocent was killed.

You are so TOTALLY wrong. With a crowd of around 20-30 people, many of whom may have had a variety of weapons (a beer bottle IS a weapon, by the way), I think the undercover cop was probably well within his rights to use his weapon. You've never been in anything like a life-or-death decision situation, have you...

As for "letting Americans drink at a reasonable age," we tried that. When I turned 18 just about every state had lowered the drinking age to 18. And the vast majority of 18 year olds proved that was a mistake because they got almost uniformly stupid. Drunk and disorderly arrests skyrocketed, DUI/DWI by 18-21 year olds skyrocketed, etc. Bad stuff, and it proved that 18 year old Americans as a group were simply not ready for the responsibility tied to having legal access to alcohol.

American PARENTS should be introducing their kids to the RESPONSIBILITIES of alcohol consumption...unfortunately the current crop of parents IS THE SAME GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO PROVED THEY COULDN'T HANDLE ALCOHOL. It's kind of sad, but today's kids are either getting shafted because their parents were losers when it comes to alcohol, or they're learning about alcohol in the worst possible way-from their equally clueless friends.

Responsible alcohol use at a sporting event IS possible. But so few people even try to be responsible with alcohol in any situation. I dispair for humanity in this area; add alcohol to a sporting event and you're more than even money going to wind up with idiots.

[Cody Dawg]

That's a great post.



I think the drinking age should be 22, actually. Right about the time that kids are getting out of college. That way colleges would ban alcohol in dorms and on campuses. There would be a lot more people alive...including a young cop at a football game just trying to do his job.

[moonmonkey]

Originally Posted by ghporter

You are so TOTALLY wrong. With a crowd of around 20-30 people, many of whom may have had a variety of weapons (a beer bottle IS a weapon, by the way), I think the undercover cop was probably well within his rights to use his weapon. You've never been in anything like a life-or-death decision situation, have you...

What? is it US police procedure to open fire with lethal rounds into a crowd if you feel threatened?

I really really hope not.

[Dork.]

OK, maybe I'm just dense, but I have a question. I understand that the uniformed officer was an Orlando cop, and the undercover officer was a University cop, but you'd think they'd at least talk to each other ahead of time, and let the city cops know that there were plainclothes university cops in the crowd, and what they look like. Especially since both groups were armed.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by moonmonkey

What? is it US police procedure to open fire with lethal rounds into a crowd if you feel threatened?

I really really hope not.

Who opened fire into a crowd?

[MacNStein]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

My point is that this is a case where tasering was more appropriate than firing guns.

Sorry, but I'm not taking a taser to a gun fight.

[wdlove]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

That's a great post.



I think the drinking age should be 22, actually. Right about the time that kids are getting out of college. That way colleges would ban alcohol in dorms and on campuses. There would be a lot more people alive...including a young cop at a football game just trying to do his job.

Hi Cody,

I miss your very nice Signature.

It would seem that proper use of alcohol at home might be a good start.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by wdlove

Hi Cody,

I miss your very nice Signature.

It would seem that proper use of alcohol at home might be a good start.

Did she accidentally delete it in a drunken stupor?

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by moonmonkey

What? is it US police procedure to open fire with lethal rounds into a crowd if you feel threatened?

I really really hope not.

The way I read the story the undercover officer was in the middle of the melee, NOT just shooting into it. There's a BIG difference there, you know. If I have a crowd surrounding me and potentially trying to kill me, I hope SOMEBODY will do something to break it up.

[Jim Paradise]

Cody Dawg: saving the world one article at a time.

[Cody Dawg]

Hi WDLove:

I tried to iChat with you today but you were gone.

Just wanted to let you know.

Ciao!