[ambush]

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/art...783784,00.html

In our 20-year history no car has performed as badly.

[GSixZero]

wow...

here are the videos...

http://paultan.org/archives/2005/10/...ssenger-cabin/
http://paultan.org/archives/2005/10/...-outside-view/

[Doofy]

In before Ca$h.

[waxcrash]

Here's a better pic of what it looks like…

They will be lucky if they sell 5 of them.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by waxcrash

Here's a better pic of what it looks like…

They will be lucky if they sell 5 of them.

Pah, you think the Chinese care about safety? They wouldn't be driving around in those just-barely-moving Xiali tuna tins if they did.

Seriously, the day either Xiali or Jiangling put out anything that gets even a single star in any non-Chinese safety test is the day I'll know the world has officially been turned upside down.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Oisín

Pah, you think the Chinese care about safety? They wouldn't be driving around in those just-barely-moving Xiali tuna tins if they did.

Seriously, the day either Xiali or Jiangling put out anything that gets even a single star in any non-Chinese safety test is the day I'll know the world has officially been turned upside down.

Well duh. They have too many people and need some way to get rid of them. Why do you think there's no real anti-smoking campaign in China?

[waxcrash]

Originally Posted by Oisín

Pah, you think the Chinese care about safety? They wouldn't be driving around in those just-barely-moving Xiali tuna tins if they did.

Let me clarify, they will be lucky if they sell in the European market.

I'm sure they will sell in China.

[TETENAL]

As long as the car is no threat to others they can sell as many as they want as far as I'm concerned.

[rozwado1]

If you watch the exterior video, it looks like the dummy's head falls off.

[gradient]

"...said Chris Patience, head of technical policy at the AA Motoring Trust. “We will wait for the official Euro NCAP results, but if it really is that bad we hope people will think very carefully before buying this car.”



Does he mean they would actually consider letting this monstrosity on the roads if this test is officially verified? Any salesman who knowingly sells one of these things should be charged with criminal negligence.

[bad_quote]

China sucks.

[Bandit240]

That thing looks very much like the late 90's Pathfinder/Passport/Rodeo triplets. Has anyone else noticed that those 3 look just alike?

[bad_quote]

Originally Posted by Bandit240

That thing looks very much like the late 90's Pathfinder/Passport/Rodeo triplets. Has anyone else noticed that those 3 look just alike?

Not hte pathfinder. But the honda passport is a rebadged rodeo. I personally like the looks of both the passport and the rodeo. Handsome design.

[waxcrash]

Originally Posted by Bandit240

That thing looks very much like the late 90's Pathfinder/Passport/Rodeo triplets. Has anyone else noticed that those 3 look just alike?

That may explain why it looks like the Isuzu Rodeo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiangling_Motors_Landwind

From Wikipedia:

The European market Landwinds are available with two Mitsubishi-built gasoline-powered engines and one Isuzu-built diesel engine.

[Sealobo]

Originally Posted by bad_quote

China sucks.

In 2004, circa 12% of the gross Chinese export goes to the shelfs of Walmart in the US; the kind of customers get the kind of goods which serve them in perfect equilibria. China sucks, Walmart sucks, People buy at Walmart suck. O... the power of cheap labors in large group. That's how they have that pyramid built.

This sucky car will find its sucky european customers and purchases will be made. Since it's cheap, it will probably sell, unless the poor test score forbid this car to be driven on public road.

[OpenStep]

[JoshuaZ]

From my experience in China they need cheap cars, seeing how badly they drive. I have never seen such chaos ever. Good lord, our bus missed an exit so it stopped on a major interstate like road and backed up probably 100 meters. Not just once bus, but two.

Crazy.

[MrForgetable]

The entire car just crumples at impact. Amazing. Looks like the body is made of a brittle plastic.

[bad_quote]

Originally Posted by Sealobo

In 2004, circa 12% of the gross Chinese exportbla bla bla bla bla bla.

Whatever. China sucks. They have no value for any type of life, the environment, or anything. What an awful ****ing country. I wish Bush would attack them.

[bad_quote]

Actually, I hope they sell this on US shores. Then all the SUV dumbasses can get it, and hopefully they and their families will die resulting in better genetic material for the rest of mankind.

[Randman]

Rob, you tend to bash on China a lot. You should be more specific and realize they a government in not necessarily representative of its people. In China, there's good and bad, just like anywhere else. But to make blanket statements (and I'm assuming without ever visiting the PRC) is ignorant.

As far as the Chinese cars, I remember in the early 1970s when Japanese cars sucked. Look at them now.

[bad_quote]

Originally Posted by Randman

Rob, you tend to bash on China a lot. You should be more specific and realize they a government in not necessarily representative of its people. In China, there's good and bad, just like anywhere else. But to make blanket statements (and I'm assuming without ever visiting the PRC) is ignorant.

As far as the Chinese cars, I remember in the early 1970s when Japanese cars sucked. Look at them now.

Dude. They kill so many of their children there are 25 males for every ONE female. They completely RUIN their environments, the air and water standards are completely horrid, they dump waste straight into rivers and streams, it's just complete freakin disaster over there. When the general population is murdering their kids just because they're female, **** them. They are seriously messed up. Screw them. They suck.

[Cubeoid]

Originally Posted by bad_quote

What an awful ****ing country. I wish Bush would attack them.

Haha.. good luck.

[Alezone]

Originally Posted by bad_quote

Dude. They kill so many of their children there are 25 males for every ONE female. They completely RUIN their environments, the air and water standards are completely horrid, they dump waste straight into rivers and streams, it's just complete freakin disaster over there. When the general population is murdering their kids just because they're female, **** them. They are seriously messed up. Screw them. They suck.

Today is Oct 14, 2005.

Not 1955, 65, or 75.

[moonmonkey]

Originally Posted by bad_quote

Whatever. China sucks. They have no value for any type of life, the environment, or anything. What an awful ****ing country. I wish Bush would attack them.

Actually its rather lovely here.
Seems to be an equal amount of males and females too...... crazy.

[brapper]

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ

From my experience in China they need cheap cars, seeing how badly they drive. I have never seen such chaos ever. Good lord, our bus missed an exit so it stopped on a major interstate like road and backed up probably 100 meters. Not just once bus, but two.

Crazy.

ya see that happened with a bus driver I had in Quebec while on a hockey tournament. So, les Quebequois and the Chinese, I guess.

[ajprice]

Yep it looks like that Isuzu/Rodeo model, in the UK it was a Vauxhall Frontera -


They don't have and crash test results for it, but the model that replaced it got 3 stars out of 5
Link

[Seb G]

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ

From my experience in China they need cheap cars, seeing how badly they drive. I have never seen such chaos ever. Good lord, our bus missed an exit so it stopped on a major interstate like road and backed up probably 100 meters. Not just once bus, but two.

Crazy.

Yes, but in China this works without accidents. Everyone assumes that the driver in front of them will do something completely mad, so people drive slowly and concentrate on the traffic.

A bus backing up 100 meters on a major road in Germany would have resulted in a mass accident. Because everyone believes that driving 10% above the speed limit all the time is a constitutional right.

[Randman]

Originally Posted by bad_quote

Dude. They kill so many of their children there are 25 males for every ONE female. They completely RUIN their environments, the air and water standards are completely horrid, they dump waste straight into rivers and streams, it's just complete freakin disaster over there. When the general population is murdering their kids just because they're female, **** them. They are seriously messed up. Screw them. They suck.

Dude, you have no clue. Go and visit then come back and comment.

Also, you realize many people say the same ignorant thing about the US, don't you? Are they right?

Yeah, the PRC gov't rules with a velvet glove and iron fist. But to condemn an entire land without any clue of what's going on is something kids do, not adults.

Having been to PRC a number of times, I can say there's good and there's bad and there's ignorant. Just like everywhere else.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Randman

But to condemn an entire land without any clue of what's going on is something kids do, not adults.

C'mon now, remember who you're talking to.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by bad_quote

They kill so many of their children there are 25 males for every ONE female.

No, that's ridiculous. From a Wikipedia article about Chinese population censuses: “2000年，第五次人口普查，总 人口为12.66亿， 性别比为106.7� �� [2000, the Fifth National Census, total population 1,266,000,000, gender difference 106.7 to 100]. This is, of course, the overall gender difference. (The worldwide average varies between 103 and 107 to 100)

From this article, specifically dealing with the gender difference in children born in the year 2000, when the last finished population census took place, it's clear that the gender difference in China is on the rise. But a 2500:100 ratio is completely ridiculous. From the article: “一九八二年第三次人口普查出生性别比为一百0八点五 &# 91;...] 到了 二000年变为一百一十六点九。从一九八二年初显偏高端 倪，发展到了至今超出国际公认正常范围约十个百分点” [At the time of the Third National Census in 1982, the gender difference in newborns was 108.5:100. [...] By 2000, this had changed to 116.9:100. From the first indications in 1982 of tendencies in the gender difference in newborns to be above average, it has now developed into the current situation, in which it lies 10 percentage points above the universally accepted range of normality.]

They completely RUIN their environments, the air and water standards are completely horrid, they dump waste straight into rivers and streams, it's just complete freakin disaster over there.

First of all, that's a wild exaggeration. There are plenty of environmental and pollution-related problems, but it's not quite as bad as you're making it sound.

Second of all, as Randman said, this is the doing of the government, not of the populace. The people are not to blame if the government chooses not to make them aware of environmental risks, but instead conceal evidence and actively forbid the spreading of proper education on the subject. Things are changing, slowly: there are environmental initiatives being taken, and the government is educating the people, both via schools and media, about the sorry state of the Chinese environment; only time will tell if it's too late.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Sealobo

This sucky car will find its sucky european customers and purchases will be made.

Not in Europe.

Yes, you can nail me down on that.

This car's crash test video went through the media a couple of weeks ago when it was introduced in Europe at the last autosalon. That was the end of public interest.

Nobody here will buy it.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by analogika

Not in Europe.

Yes, you can nail me down on that.

This car went through the media a couple of weeks ago when it was introduced in Europe at the last autosalon. That was the end of public interest.

Nobody here will buy it.

I reckon you're wrong. There's plenty of folks out there looking for a "neutral-looking" car in amongst all this new-fangled 21st century "design gayness". As long as it's allowed to be sold someone somewhere will buy it. Heck, folks still buy Landy Defenders, don't they?

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Doofy

I reckon you're wrong. There's plenty of folks out there looking for a "neutral-looking" car in amongst all this new-fangled 21st century "design gayness". As long as it's allow to be sold someone somewhere will buy it. Heck, folks still buy Landy Defenders, don't they?

The ADAC is the #1 trusted authority in Germany when it comes to cars. That includes their equally catastrophic crash test results for that death trap.

Instant death for the German market.

It may have been wrong to extrapolate to the UK and the rest of Europe; sorry.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by analogika

It may have been wrong to extrapolate to the UK and the rest of Europe; sorry.

Of course, it needs to be the right price. They bring it in less than a Mondeo and it'll sell.

[fhoubi]

Spacy...

[effgee]

Originally Posted by fhoubi

Spacy...

What's the big deal? It gently brings you into a relaxed yoga position - I see nothing wrong with that.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by effgee

What's the big deal? It gently brings you into a relaxed yoga position - I see nothing wrong with that.

That's no yoga position, silly. See the fingers? The index finger would have to be brought together with the thumb to form a circle for it to be a yoga position.

Geez, you'd think people would pay just a little attention!

[effgee]

Damn you're right ... how could I miss that? My yogi is going to kill me ...

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Heck, folks still buy Landy Defenders, don't they?

Well, but the Defender is, after all, a vehicle for real work, second to none. Buying it has a sense.

Long live the Defender

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by bad_quote

They have no value for any type of life, the environment, or anything.

Wow, that coming from an American, a citizen of the country that cares about the environment THE MOSTEST!!!11!1one

-t

[Sealobo]

As a Chinese myself, i think we're doing pretty good. At least we're not creating much trouble for the others. China screwed up big time for almmost a century since the end of The Qing Dynasty (1644-1912); the Eight-Nation Alliance, included military forces from Austria, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United States, invaded China for the best interest of their countries.

Chinese today is particularly proud, because we're coming back to the position where we used to be for centuries. There are always struggles, as China is still far lacking behind her american and european countparts in terms of many modern value, human right in particular. However, like many dynasties we had in our thousand years of history, the fate of China has always been linked strongly to the quality of the leadership. The iron fist style of running a country, when given the right direction, could be extremely efficient (check modern Singapore) because time wouldn't be waste on democratic debate for the sake of representation. China is in good hand now, because our leadership is of high quality.

There are many things happening in China today which the modern world cannot approve. But look, China is a development country; the country is getting strong as a whole only due to her vast populace, check out all the per capita figures and you can tell how screw up we still are. Nontheless, we're making progress. Being able to export cheap nasty cars abroad is only a sign of proper transformation of China, moving from planned economy to the global market. Goods are supplied to the matching demand. Anyone can say China sucks, but it also shows how intelligent you are as an individual.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Sealobo

China is in good hand now, because our leadership is of high quality.

You have absolutely got to be joking with this one. The Chinese government is of 'high quality'?

And this coming from a Hong Konger?

*speechless*

你被中宣部雇佣了吗？

the country is getting strong as a whole only due to her vast populace

More in spite of it than due to it. The megalomanic Maoist principle that 'there can never be too many Chinese' is one of the greatest contributors to the current (and starting to become long-lasting) shittiness of China's situation, economically, environmentally, and in pretty much any other way.

check out all the per capita figures and you can tell how screw up we still are.

... and this sort of contradicts the sentence that came right before it, doesn't it? Or am I misreading you?

I find it interesting that you, as a Hong Konger, seem so supportive of and believing in the Mainland and its government. Nearly all Hong Kongers I've come into contact with (both on the Mainland, in Hong Kong, and here in Europe) have been quite a lot more against the régime, to put it mildly.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Sealobo

The iron fist style of running a country, when given the right direction, could be extremely efficient (check modern Singapore) because time wouldn't be waste on democratic debate for the sake of representation.

I don't think democracy is a waste.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Oisín

You have absolutely got to be joking with this one. The Chinese government is of 'high quality'?

And this coming from a Hong Konger?

*speechless*

你被中宣部雇佣了吗？.

-t

[Sealobo]

Originally Posted by Oisín

You have absolutely got to be joking with this one. The Chinese government is of 'high quality'?

And this coming from a Hong Konger?

*speechless*

你被中宣部雇佣了吗？

i said the leadership is of high quality, and i mean the ones who're in charge of the country, i.e. the chair of the communist and the country's PM. They're no doubt highly educated and civilized leaders. I agree that the government has enormous shortcoming, because it is simply too large and one cannot simply pull an 180 degree change overnight, no matter how strone you are in power. However, things are bounded to change to the positive side, because the general direction set by our leaders is proved to be working.

More in spite of it than due to it. The megalomanic Maoist principle that 'there can never be too many Chinese' is one of the greatest contributors to the current (and starting to become long-lasting) shittiness of China's situation, economically, environmentally, and in pretty much any other way.

... and this sort of contradicts the sentence that came right before it, doesn't it? Or am I misreading you?

I find it interesting that you, as a Hong Konger, seem so supportive of and believing in the Mainland and its government. Nearly all Hong Kongers I've come into contact with (both on the Mainland, in Hong Kong, and here in Europe) have been quite a lot more against the régime, to put it mildly.

Mind you, the Mao's teaching is no longer in place for modern China. The People's Chairman is merely an iconic reflection of the ideal communism once in place so strongly in everyone's mind. I suspect that you know Xiaoping has imposed an entirely different doctrine that shaped China today, and the current leadership is simply a natural extension of that grand overhaul. China is meshing with the modern world.

Hong Kong, as a modern metropolis, has a lot of jackasses that do not understand their motherland, and they have never set foot to the place where they comment their nonsense. They read news about China from the fundamentally biased newspaper and that's how they got their aspirations of opinion.

By the way, i said China is still screwed, as in relative term. We should be doing much better if not the dark age stucked us in the last century. It's sad.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Sealobo

i said the leadership is of high quality, and i mean the ones who're in charge of the country, i.e. the chair of the communist and the country's PM. They're no doubt highly educated and civilized leaders.

That doesn't make them good leaders, though.

I agree that the government has enormous shortcoming, because it is simply too large and one cannot simply pull an 180 degree change overnight, no matter how strone you are in power. However, things are bounded to change to the positive side, because the general direction set by our leaders is proved to be working.

Yes, well, sociologists have been predicting more and more rapid changes for the better for the past... well, pretty much since the Open Door times started, so 25-30 years. It hasn't really happened yet, and I don't think it will within any foreseeable future either. Admittedly, the government/Party/leader(s) is (are) slowly getting better, but it's a very very slow process, and I think it'll be more than just one or two decades till we begin to see some really big changes.

(P.S.: Have you read Jiao Guobiao's letter? Despite the condescending tone, and the fact that it's an only far-too-obvious cry for expulsion from the country, it does indeed show quite well where a big part of the 'bottleneck to the development of a civilised Chinese society', in my opinion)

Mind you, the Mao's teaching is no longer in place for modern China. The People's Chairman is merely an iconic reflection of the ideal communism once in place so strongly in everyone's mind. I suspect that you know Xiaoping has imposed an entirely different doctrine that shaped China today, and the current leadership is simply a natural extension of that grand overhaul. China is meshing with the modern world.

Naturally; but that doesn't really change much, apart from ideologically. Mao's Ravings, err, I mean Teachings, were abandoned decades ago; and good riddance.

[ambush]

Originally Posted by Oisín

No, that's ridiculous. From a Wikipedia article about Chinese population censuses: “2000年，第五次人口普查，总人口为1 2.66亿，性别比为106.7” [2000, the Fifth National Census, total population 1,266,000,000, gender difference 106.7 to 100]. This is, of course, the overall gender difference. (The worldwide average varies between 103 and 107 to 100)

From this article, specifically dealing with the gender difference in children born in the year 2000, when the last finished population census took place, it's clear that the gender difference in China is on the rise. But a 2500:100 ratio is completely ridiculous. From the article: “一九八二年第三次人口普查出生性� �比为一百0八点五 [...] 到了二000年变为一百一十六点九。从� �九八二年初显偏高端倪，发展到了至� ��超出国际公认正常范围约十个百分点 ” [At the time of the Third National Census in 1982, the gender difference in newborns was 108.5:100. [...] By 2000, this had changed to 116.9:100. From the first indications in 1982 of tendencies in the gender difference in newborns to be above average, it has now developed into the current situation, in which it lies 10 percentage points above the universally accepted range of normality.]



First of all, that's a wild exaggeration. There are plenty of environmental and pollution-related problems, but it's not quite as bad as you're making it sound.

Second of all, as Randman said, this is the doing of the government, not of the populace. The people are not to blame if the government chooses not to make them aware of environmental risks, but instead conceal evidence and actively forbid the spreading of proper education on the subject. Things are changing, slowly: there are environmental initiatives being taken, and the government is educating the people, both via schools and media, about the sorry state of the Chinese environment; only time will tell if it's too late.

Of course, the Chinese government is 100% reliable when it comes to stats. Just like the CIA study proved it.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ambush

Of course, the Chinese government is 100% reliable when it comes to stats. Just like the CIA study proved it.

The point was to refute Rob's stat:

They kill so many of their children there are 25 males for every ONE female.

This stat is obviously wrong, common sense will tell you that. I don't need other stats to do that for me.

-t

[Sealobo]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

I don't think democracy is a waste.

Of course it is not a waste, in fact, it is the way. However, in some cases, democracy slows down progress, this is because for EVERY right decision to make, there are always oppositions creating arugments.

That's why i said China's fate is strongly linked to the quality of her leadership. If the leadership makes 90% of the decisions right, the progress would be astonishing. Otherwise, we will probably see another invasion from foreigners, claim to help us to put things in order and remove our evil leadership.

There are reasons why China is growing economically 3 times faster than her american counterpart.