[macfantn]

I have a friend who drinks beer daily, he says he needs it to relax. Just to fill you in, he drinks usually a 6 pack on weeknights and anywhere from 10 - 20 beers on weekend nights. This past friday he told me he had 19 beers while just at home on a friday night, and sunday night he was on his 8th beer when I talked to him. He does work and the drinking doesn't interfere with his work, but he has been doing this for the last 10 years, so I'm worried he is going to end up killing his liver. What can I do to help him? Anyone know any good sites that will snail mail him literature on alcoholism? I've tried talking to him but he won't listen.

[nonhuman]

That does seem a bit excessive. I definitely like my booze, but I don't drink nearly that much. I'd say tell him you're concerned but don't try and pressure him into anything. It's his liver and his life to do with as he pleases.

[macfantn]

don't get me wrong I drink, but usually keep it to weekends only and do not need 19 beers to get a good buzz.

[bad_quote]

It really depends on the type of beer it is. If it's coors or some other ******** watery american beer like busch or something, then it probably isn't very much alcohol.... if it's a REAL beer, then he probably wouldn't be able to drink that much without getting totally ********d.

[macfantn]

he drinks cheap beer, mostly bud or nat light.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by macfantn

he drinks cheap beer, mostly bud or nat light.

Natty? Dear god. Do something. Now.

[macfantn]

well he doesn't drink good beer, because drinking good beer daily is expensive plus he can't drink as much I guess beer with taste is too filling. Personally I wouldn't touch a light beer.

[macfantn]

anyone know any good sites that will send him free info on how to get help? I want to flood him with stuff, so he will get the picture.

[Doofy]

No big deal if you ask me. American Bud is what, half the strength of UK Bud? That's three bottles a night + five to ten on weekends. Nowt. It's when he gets to the 20 a night (that's 40 US) every night that you want to start worrying.

[cjrivera]

A widely used screening tool is the CAGE questionaire.

4 questions that he is asked....

1) Cut down - Have you ever thought you should cut down on drinking?
2) Anger/annoyed - Has anyone been angered or annoyed because of your drinking?
3) Guilt - Have you ever felt guiltybecuase of your drinking?
4) Eye opener - Do you ever need a drink in the AM as an eye-opener?

2 or more "Yes" answers indicate that the is a likelihood of alcoholism.
Again this is a screen (And there have been some newer screens made available) but it has been widely studied and found to be useful in screening for alcoholism.

Good luck with your friend.

[macfantn]

he would answer yes to # 1, 2, 3 possibly 4 not sure on that one. Plus his dad and grandfather were both alcoholics and his brother drinks just like him.

[Weyland-Yutani]

As I thought. I have 3 out of 4 "yes" on the screen test. I can also think of quite a lot of people who would do the same. Some are my friends, some I work with. Hm. Interesting.

cheers

W-Y

[production_coordinator]

Unless HE wants to change, it is pointless. As hard as this sounds, the best thing you can do is talk to him about it and let him know how you feel. Perhaps you could get your friend to do something non-drinking related.

[mrtew]

I have a good friend that just died a couple of weeks ago. People said they didn't even know she was sick. She wasn't. She killed her liver. Most people think of Alcohol ****ing up their live, relationships and jobs, which of course it can but a good alcoholic can work around those things (you don't mention him having a wife etc) but people do forget about the death thing. The first warning sign is that he says he 'needs' it. Nobody needs alcohol.

[V]

Originally Posted by mrtew

Nobody needs alcohol.

Nobody needs life.

[olePigeon]

He could drink 6 vodkas instead. You could then fool yourself into thinking it's not as much as 19 beers.

[teknopimp]

i think you are confusing alcoholism with heavy drinking. there is a difference. i don't think he needs your help.

[screamingFit]

Tell him to go to Scotland. He should fit in.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by bad_quote

It really depends on the type of beer it is. If it's coors or some other ******** watery american beer like busch or something, then it probably isn't very much alcohol.... if it's a REAL beer, then he probably wouldn't be able to drink that much without getting totally ********d.

Rob you are speaking in your "not very experienced with life" tone of voice.

Someone like the guy the poster is posting about, could probably drink just as many REAL beers as Domestic crap beers.

That is how dependence works.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by teknopimp

i think you are confusing alcoholism with heavy drinking. there is a difference. i don't think he needs your help.

That is like saying "He isn't addicted to tobacco, he is just a heavy smoker"

One leads to the other. You cannot be a heavy drinker for very long without becoming a alcoholic. After awhile you gain a tolerance and dependance. Just like anything that is addictive. And since he said "he has been doing this for the last 10 years" it's safe to assume that yes, his friend is a alcoholic.

[wdlove]

It's a very sad disease. Unfortunately in most cases there isn't too much that can be done. If it isn't interfering in his daily life then he won't see a problem. Sadly most have to hit bottom, before they accept help.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Kevin

That is like saying "He isn't addicted to tobacco, he is just a heavy smoker"

One leads to the other. You cannot be a heavy drinker for very long without becoming a alcoholic. After awhile you gain a tolerance and dependance. Just like anything that is addictive. And since he said "he has been doing this for the last 10 years" it's safe to assume that yes, his friend is a alcoholic.

Exactly right, if he drinks a six pack daily and triple that on the weekends he is an alcoholic. I'm sure his mood would be flipped upside-down if he were not to drink for a few days.

Besides telling him your concern, there may not be much you can do.

[chris v]

trying to help someone who doesn't want help is utterly useless. you will do nothing but annoy him, and if you annoy him enough, he'll just break off contact with you. Which is why I'll suggest this:

YOU break off contact. Tell him you're disassociating yourself from him until he comes to his senses, and quits drinking, and to call you when he's been sober for a month. Then STICK TO IT.

EDIT: believe me-- I know. I was your friend for at least 10 years, and I am now sober for 8. Been there.

[bad_quote]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Rob you are speaking in your "not very experienced with life" tone of voice.

Someone like the guy the poster is posting about, could probably drink just as many REAL beers as Domestic crap beers.

That is how dependence works.

Not really. I can drink a 6 pack of coors if I wanted, but I could not drink 6 guinesses and still be able to talk.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by bad_quote

Not really. I can drink a 6 pack of coors if I wanted, but I could not drink 6 guinesses and still be able to talk.

And guess what Rob. You aren't a alcoholic are you? So your point is irrelevant.

[KeriVit]

Originally Posted by Kevin

And guess what Rob. You aren't a alcoholic are you? So your point is irrelevant.

I believe what he is saying IS relevant. He's saying that swilling 6 cheap beers every night is not getting the guy drunk- whereas- 6 heavy beers would.

So if qty. is the issue- he's pretty low on the scale.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by KeriVit

I believe what he is saying IS relevant. He's saying that swilling 6 cheap beers every night is not getting the guy drunk- whereas- 6 heavy beers would.

So if qty. is the issue- he's pretty low on the scale.

Yep, he's pretty low on the quantity scale. I used to do way more than that - heck, I've even passed a machine-based DUI test after 10 Buds (that's about 20 US Buds) before now (yes, I was young and stupid once).

The way to see if it's a problem is something like the CAGE test (but even that's not totally accurate - I can tick a yes for #2 even though I'm virtually teetotal (my not having a beer most of the time tends to annoy some people!)).

[RAILhead]

So when did we start equating getting drunk with being alcoholic? If you can drink 900 beers a week and not get drunk, you're not an alcoholic? Spare me.

No, if you're dependent on alcohol -- like the poster's friend admittedly is -- you're an alcoholic.

[JonoG4]

While I hate cheap watered down beer myself, I don't see how drinking 6 cheap 5% alcohol per volume beers could make one any less drunk than drinking 6 more expensive beers with 5% alcohol content. Sure, it would be harder to drink 6 Guinness beers, but the blood alcohol level would be the same in both cases.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

No, if you're dependent on alcohol -- like the poster's friend admittedly is -- you're an alcoholic.

Correct. But is the poster's friend actually dependant on it or just making excuses instead of coming out and saying "listen, I like beer so stop hassling me, OK?"? I've seen folks use that "it helps me relax" excuse just for an easy life.

[nredman]

i like beer but i couldn't drink a 6 pack everyday - i drink maybe 3-4 on a friday or saturday every two weeks. maybe one beer during the week. i couldn't afford to drink that much. i'd say your friend could use some help.

[pathogen]

http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/
http://www.ola-is.org/

I tried posting this before but I don't see it here.

Contact Al Anon. It's not just for alcoholics, they offer help to family and friends of anyone who is dealing with an addiction. It's a support group with lots of information and professionalism, good for counseling and support ideas on how to move forward with this problem (alcoholic friend) without creating reactionary fallout with this person, other friends and family.

[teknopimp]

Originally Posted by Kevin

That is like saying "He isn't addicted to tobacco, he is just a heavy smoker"

One leads to the other. You cannot be a heavy drinker for very long without becoming a alcoholic. After awhile you gain a tolerance and dependance. Just like anything that is addictive. And since he said "he has been doing this for the last 10 years" it's safe to assume that yes, his friend is a alcoholic.

i disagree. people take smoke breaks during the day at work, not so with alcohol.

[mdc]

Originally Posted by teknopimp

i disagree. people take smoke breaks during the day at work, not so with alcohol.

probably because they're not allowed to. i think if companies started saying that people could take drink breaks at work, a lot of people would take advantage of said breaks.

[teknopimp]

Originally Posted by mdc

probably because they're not allowed to. i think if companies started saying that people could take drink breaks at work, a lot of people would take advantage of said breaks.

that still doesn't make his friend an alcoholic.

[KeriVit]

I'm not saying the guy's not an alcoholic. I was just saying Rob's post was relevant.

[isao bered]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

So when did we start equating getting drunk with being alcoholic? If you can drink 900 beers a week and not get drunk, you're not an alcoholic? Spare me.

exactly. *perceived* drunkenness is quite different than legal intoxication or continuously poisoning one's body. the body tends to get used to the alcohol and a heavy drinker will require progressively more to drink to stupor.

i've processed duis where bacs (as determined by blood test) were in excess of .300 yet the driver did not display the severity of ill effects one would expect from those who are moderate drinkers. over time they became "conditioned" to the point that they could effectively poison themselves without significant appearance of drunkenness.

i'll not go into the littany of long-term consequences of such actions, but be content only to again agree here that drunkenness is not the best measure of alcoholism.

be well.

laeth

[air]

i drink ever day.

one worded reason: college

[sek929]

Originally Posted by air

i drink ever day.

one worded reason: college

Same here, but I don't get drunk everyday...In fact, I only usually get "drunk" once during the weekend, and sometimes not at all.

There is a difference between enjoying alcohol and using it excessively

[RAILhead]

My point was that for some reason, some posters have it in their heads that "alcoholism" equal "being drunk all the time" and it doesn't. Alcoholism is the dependence or the addiction to alcohol, plain and simple.

An easy way to know if you're addicted to something is whether or not you can stop partaking of it. If his friend can't go without drinking for whatever length of time someone asks him, selfishness (on his part) aside, then he has a problem.

Simple.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by KeriVit

I believe what he is saying IS relevant. He's saying that swilling 6 cheap beers every night is not getting the guy drunk- whereas- 6 heavy beers would.

That isn't what he said. He claimed HE could. Rob is not an alchoholic. This guy is.

The small amount of difference between heavy and cheap beers really doesn't matter when it comes to alchoholics. The guy would probably feel very little off of 6 beers no matter what beer it is.

Originally Posted by JonoG4

While I hate cheap watered down beer myself, I don't see how drinking 6 cheap 5% alcohol per volume beers could make one any less drunk than drinking 6 more expensive beers with 5% alcohol content. Sure, it would be harder to drink 6 Guinness beers, but the blood alcohol level would be the same in both cases.

Domestic has 3 to 4% while some more expensive beers have a bit more. Not really enough to effect an alchoholic any different. But someone like Rob that doesn't drink as much it would.

Back when I was on pain meds, I could barely tell the difference between taking 5 and 10m

And that is TWICE the amount. Why? I had a tolerance, and a dependence.

Originally Posted by teknopimp

i disagree. people take smoke breaks during the day at work, not so with alcohol.

I don't think you understood my comparison.

Someone who drinks every day is going to become addicted and have a depedance. That is how alchohol works.

Someone who smokes every day is going to become addicted and have a depedance. That is how tobacco works.

I have NEVER seen someone that smoked or drank daily that wasn't an alchoholic or addicted to tobacco. They might not ADMIT it, but the facts are facts.

And when I say drink, I am not talking about "A BEER" or "A GLASS OF WINE" or by smoke I am not referring to "A CIG" a day.

I am talking about someone that drinks a sixer a day, and smokes atleast 12 or more cigs a day (maybe less)

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

My point was that for some reason, some posters have it in their heads that "alcoholism" equal "being drunk all the time" and it doesn't. Alcoholism is the dependence or the addiction to alcohol, plain and simple.

Right, but if you ARE getting drunk all the time it will cause a dependance.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Right, but if you ARE getting drunk all the time it will cause a dependance.

Yes, by all means! From that perspective, anyone who feels the need to get drunk all the time already has major issues in my book. Didn't mean to sound contradictory to that statement if I did.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Right, but if you ARE getting drunk all the time it will cause a dependance.

Yes, by all means! From that perspective, anyone who feels the need to get drunk all the time already has major issues in my book. Didn't mean to sound contradictory to that statement if I did.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I am talking about someone that drinks a sixer a day, and smokes atleast 12 or more cigs a day (maybe less)

Phew,

I only average about 5-6 Cigs a day, less if I don't drink on the weekends..... but I do.

[KeriVit]

OK- back on topic- we are not deciding if the guy is an alcoholic. According to American standards, he is. Many people are. But, should his friend intervene? I doubt it would do much good at this point. If the drinker is affecting no one but himself, the conversation will go nowhere.

Let him know how you feel if you like, but don't count on anything but tension in the friendship.

[Luisc]

Which is your favorite beer guys?

I think mine will be Smirnoff Ice or Heiniken...

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Luisc

Which is your favorite beer guys?

I think mine will be Smirnoff Ice or Heiniken...

Smirnoff Ice is not a beer. ... .. damn it.

I can't drink more than a bottle of wine (750 mL, 12%) and a sixpack of small beers (33 cL, 5% each) in a night out. And that is pushing it.

cheers

W-Y

[KeriVit]

Originally Posted by Luisc

Which is your favorite beer guys?

I think mine will be Smirnoff Ice or Heiniken...

Smirnoff Ice is NOT beer ya goof. Sissy young kid/girl drink. Makes your tongue parched for more- just as the execs planned it.

[Luisc]

Well yes in the United States is consider a beer for example in the United Kingdom is does contains vodka. Well I read that if not I'm sorry.