[Mastrap]

Not only do they release CDs containing malware, now it also looks like Sony itself might be in breach of copyright.


http://www.boingboing.net/2005/11/13...it_infrin.html

Sony's rootkit infringes on software copyrights
Close examination of the rootkit that Sony's audio CDs attack their customers' PCs with has revealed that their malicious software is built on code that infringes on copyright. Indications are that Sony has included the LAME music encoder, which is licensed under the Lesser General Public License (LGPL), which requires that those who use it attribute the original software and publish some of the code they write to use the library. Sony has done none of this.
The evidence against Sony is compelling, and this further reveals the hypocrisy of Sony's actions. Sony claims that it needs to install dangerous, malicious, underhanded software on its customers' computers to protect its copyrights, but in order to write this malware, it has no compunction about infringing on the copyrights of public-spirited software authors who make their works available under free software licenses like the GPL.

I suppose it's natural to believe that everyone is at least as sleazy as you are: for Sony's rip-off artists, assuming that paying customers are planning to rip them off must come easy. Link (Thanks, Reid!)

[Dark Helmet]

Yup, they sure do some stupid things.

On the other side I love many of their products.

[Mastrap]

Apparently there might be more:

http://www.boingboing.net/2005/11/13...re_uninst.html

Sony's malware uninstaller leaves your computer vulnerable
Matti sez, "The ActiveX component that is required for the uninstallation of Sony's DRM system is scriptable by everyone, and allows at least rebooting the system in a trivial fashion (see demo on the site) with a few lines of html and javascript. There's possibly more to it, since it leaves methods such as 'InstallUpdate' and 'ExecuteCode' on the system, again scriptable by anyone and everyone. Virus writers will love this stuff."

[Kerrigan]

Sony makes such cheap stuff, their products always feel as though they will fall apart in your hands. Down with Sony, the future is Apple.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Sony makes such cheap stuff, their products always feel as though they will fall apart in your hands. Down with Sony, the future is Apple.

Actually next to Apple I find the build quality the highest out of electronic manufacturers.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Actually next to Apple I find the build quality the highest out of electronic manufacturers.

Then you must only buy Apple and Sony.

Sony makes trash, especially recently.

[Mastrap]

I used to work for Sony's ad agency back in Europe, so I got to play with the entire VAIO lineup. The build quality was ok, but not more.

[effgee]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

I've had it with Sony.

Wait tuntil next year, when all Sony/BMG CDs sold in Europe will contain DRM poopware for Macs as well (*). Loads of fun yet to come - imagine the day when each and every audio CD will force you to install its own playback- and DRM software ... oh, the joy!!




(* - from what's being said so far, the Mac version, which was written by a different company, contains a nice set of kernel extensions to make sure users don't go around ripping their Sony CDs or, dear God, dare to copy their contents onto an iPod.)

[analogika]

Sorry, but I can't find an English expression quite as succinct:

Denen hat doch echt jemand ins Gehirn geschissen.

[Kevin]

It's almost like they are TRYING to get people to pirate music.

[SuvsareRetarded]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Actually next to Apple I find the build quality the highest out of electronic manufacturers.

Maybe if you're only talking about clock radios. But if you're talking hi-fi stuff there's tons of companies that produce better built stuff than sony.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

I used to work for Sony's ad agency back in Europe, so I got to play with the entire VAIO lineup. The build quality was ok

Sorry, no. I had one of the first Vaio laptops. Over the course of five years it went back to the service centre at least once a year without fail. It had three screens, two HDs, two keyboards, three CD-ROMs, a power module. And I'm not what you'd call "hard" on gear. I've boycotted Sony ever since.

If you want build quality in consumer electronics you want Mitsubishi. I'm just about to replace a VCR of theirs for one reason alone - it's run itself off the internal calendar (I've had it 14 years).

[analogika]

With all respect: a fourteen-year-old electronic device is not something to judge current manufacturers' build quality on.

Prices and cost pressure on electronics manufacturing have changed so drastically over the past ten years that I sincerely doubt that ANYTHING electronic you buy today, regardless of manufacturer, will last much longer than five years. But then, it only costs a tenth if what it did then.

[tooki]

Sony's laptops look great but aren't built all that well. Sony's portable electronics, like MiniDisc players, however, is very well made. Sony broadcast gear is, well, entirely broadcast quality. Sony makes tons of good products, in many cases the best available. Computers and copy protection just aren't examples of them.

That said, Sony's not THAT different from other makers in most markets, and its actions as of late are enough to make me look elsewhere.

tooki

[effgee]

Originally Posted by analogika

Sorry, but I can't find an English expression quite as succinct: Denen hat doch echt jemand ins Gehirn geschissen.

How about this: "Someone seems to have taken a dump inside Sony's collective head"?

[analogika]

More like, Somebody seriously crapped their brain.

[effgee]

Originally Posted by analogika

More like, Somebody seriously crapped their brain.

That oughta do it.

[Mastrap]

Don't know if you've ever watched 'Withnail and I', but one of my favourite quotes from that film is: 'I feel like a pig shat in my head.'

In the meantime, good bye Sony as far as I am concerned.

[effgee]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

'I feel like a pig shat in my head.'

The discovery process into what is to be found inside Sony's collective head is hereby officially closed.



And yes, I too am done with Sony. Bought a pair of nice wireless headphones for watching TV last week, didn't even look at Sony products (which I normally would have done) - $$$ went to Sennheiser instead. Will need a PC laptop in January, always loved the little 13.3" VAIO, which is now out of the running - another $2.000 Sony chose to rather not get from me.

Buh-bye, Sony.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by analogika

With all respect: a fourteen-year-old electronic device is not something to judge current manufacturers' build quality on.

Prices and cost pressure on electronics manufacturing have changed so drastically over the past ten years that I sincerely doubt that ANYTHING electronic you buy today, regardless of manufacturer, will last much longer than five years. But then, it only costs a tenth if what it did then.

Fair point.

That's progress for you, I guess.

[Mastrap]

Heh. I just remembered that somebody, somewhere borrowed my DVD of Withnail and I. And didn't return it. Bastard. But what do I see on amazon? A remastered DVD? Take my order now.

[hayesk]

Originally Posted by effgee

(* - from what's being said so far, the Mac version, which was written by a different company, contains a nice set of kernel extensions to make sure users don't go around ripping their Sony CDs or, dear God, dare to copy their contents onto an iPod.)

Yes, but you need to type your admin password to install kernel extenions, even if you ar ean admin user. No so with Windows. Sony will never be able to use the same tactics and be as successful on the Mac platform.

[effgee]

Originally Posted by hayesk

Yes, but you need to type your admin password to install kernel extenions, even if you ar ean admin user. No so with Windows. Sony will never be able to use the same tactics and be as successful on the Mac platform.

That goes without saying, of course. But if you take into consideration the amount of knowledge your average, not-a-geek Mac user possesses - how many of them will just type in their password, without giving the matter a second thought? Technically, anything that happens after this is of course the user's fault but it's still a shitty thing to do on Sony's part.

And now on to the funny stuff: Some nerd at the EFF actually took the time to read through the EULA included with Sony's music CDs, take a peek at his findings - hilarious!

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

Maybe if you're only talking about clock radios. But if you're talking hi-fi stuff there's tons of companies that produce better built stuff than sony.

Oh god not high end. Sony makes great mid range.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by effgee

And now on to the funny stuff: Some nerd at the EFF actually took the time to read through the EULA included with Sony's music CDs, take a peek at his findings - hilarious!

Wow. Well, that makes sure I won't be buying anything Sony anytime soon.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by tooki

Sony's portable electronics, like MiniDisc players, however, is very well made.

Not! My MiniDisc recorder, while admittedly several years old, does these things:

1. The damn thing makes noises while recording. If I don't put the microphone far away from the unit (and preferably muffle the unit with a sweater or something as well), the whirring sounds of the disc spindle spinning get on the recording. To make things worse, every so often, it starts spinning the disk really fast for a second or so, and this just about always gets on the recording no matter what you do.

2. The battery life on the thing is abysmal, mostly because it runs on one AA battery. Forget being able to record an entire piano lesson, recital, concert, etc. with this thing unless you can find an AC outlet!

I freaking hate MiniDisc. I await a decent microphone adapter for the 5th generation iPod with bated breath...

[OldManMac]

They've already announced that their going to stop their copy-protection.

http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lounge/274413/sony-rootkit/

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20051111/D8DQELK0E.html

Nov 11, 2:02 PM (ET)

By TED BRIDIS


WASHINGTON (AP) - Stung by continuing criticism, the world's second-largest music label, Sony BMG Music Entertainment, promised Friday to temporarily suspend making music CDs with antipiracy technology that can leave computers vulnerable to hackers.
Sony defended its right to prevent customers from illegally copying music but said it will halt manufacturing CDs with the "XCP" technology as a precautionary measure. "We also intend to re-examine all aspects of our content protection initiative to be sure that it continues to meet our goals of security and ease of consumer use," the company said in a statement.
The antipiracy technology, which works only on Windows computers, prevents customers from making more than a few copies of the CD and prevents them from loading the CD's songs onto Apple Computer's popular iPod portable music players. Some other music players, which recognize Microsoft's proprietary music format, would work.
Sony's announcement came one day after leading security companies disclosed that hackers were distributing malicious programs over the Internet that exploited the antipiracy technology's ability to avoid detection. Hackers discovered they can effectively render their programs invisible by using names for computer files similar to ones cloaked by the Sony technology.
Sony's program is included on about 20 popular music titles, including releases by Van Zant and The Bad Plus.
"This is a step they should have taken immediately," said Mark Russinovich, chief software architect at Internals Software who discovered the hidden copy-protection technology Oct. 31 and posted his findings on his Web log. He said Sony did not admit any wrongdoing, nor did it promise not to use similar techniques in the future.
Security researchers have described Sony's technology as "spyware," saying it is difficult to remove, transmits without warning details about what music is playing, and that Sony's notice to consumers about the technology was inadequate. Sony executives have rejected the description of their technology as spyware.
Some leading antivirus companies updated their protective software this week to detect Sony's antipiracy program, disable it and prevent it from reinstalling.
After Russinovich criticized Sony, it made available a software patch that removed the technology's ability to avoid detection. It also made more broadly available its instructions on how to remove the software permanently. Customers who remove the software are unable to listen to the music CD on their computer.
__________________

[effgee]

Originally Posted by KarlG

They've already announced that they are temporarily going to stop their copy-protection for Windows-based PCs. ...

fixed™

[demograph68]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

I used to work for Sony's ad agency back in Europe, so I got to play with the entire VAIO lineup. The build quality was ok, but not more.

It must suck to have to glorify a certain product that otherwise sucks.

[ItwasaSony]

Userfriendly cartoon

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by demograph68

It must suck to have to glorify a certain product that otherwise sucks.

It paid extremely well.

[Cody Dawg]

Well, I have their digital cameras. I have a camera WAY out of warranty and I called them up about it and they said to send it back to Texas: They are giving me a brand new one. It's not even a cheap camera. I've always - and I mean ALWAYS - had customer support comparable to Apple's: Excellent

That goes for their digital equipment and Sony notebooks we use for our company.

That stuff on their CDs is pretty bad, though. I hope they get sued for it. It's just not right.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Well, I have their digital cameras. I have a camera WAY out of warranty and I called them up about it and they said to send it back to Texas: They are giving me a brand new one. It's not even a cheap camera. I've always - and I mean ALWAYS - had customer support comparable to Apple's: Excellent

That goes for their digital equipment and Sony notebooks we use for our company.

This must be a regional thing. When I had that Vaio laptop it had a problem with the power management module which effectively destroyed the battery (it went into a constant charge/decharge cycle and dramatically shortened the life span). At the time I'd actually used it on battery power only about 30 times (rest of the time it was hooked into the mains). Would Sony replace the battery, even though the damage was caused by another part of their product being faulty? Nope.

[Cody Dawg]

Did you call their CEO? I did. They sent a letter and a personal assistant called me back.

I believe in calling the executive offices of any corporation when there is a significant problem. In my case, the camera had problems out of the box when we purchased it. Not huge problems, but quality control problems. The on/off switch was not quite perfect. It didn't read the data very well. Minor things. When the on/off switch quit working completely, even though the warranty was supposedly over, I still felt that the camera should be taken care of and I called them and nicely made my case. I got "no" at the bottom levels also. I persisted, nicely.

Heck, last week my keyboard on my Mac separated (iMac) and it is under AppleCare. Called Apple and they said, "We don't cover plastics, including the keyboard." I was incredulous. And pissed off. I said, "Oh, really?" He said, "Yes." I said, "Well, you need to put me right through to customer relations in Austin because I have a thing or two to say. Look up case ID number xxxxxxx. You'll see that when we bought this iMac there was a crack in the housing. It is still there. I complained about it but decided to live with it because it was minor. The keyboard falling apart is not minor. So, I'm the nice person with the cracked iMac for a year and then I call you to tell you that your keyboard is falling apart and you tell me to go buy a new one? Well, I'll tell you what: I think Apple should now replace my iMac housing with a brand new housing, or even better, I think the entire iMac should be replaced completely, and when that happens they'll replace the keyboard also. So, put me through to Apple customer relations, please." He was very nice and apologized. Next thing that happens, tier 2 tech support is on the telephone and she apologized for the initial person and said that "of course" they will replace the keyboard - and the mouse too - and it "is already on the way." I got them overnight. I was very nice throughout the entire discussion, I always am, but I felt I was in the right. We didn't abuse the keyboard. It simply fell apart at the seams. It's hard to explain, but that happened and the cord had basically broken where it went into the unit. It had to be in exactly the right position to work properly. It's only a year old and it's never moved off of the desk. It shouldn't disintegrate like that.

I don't expect anything for free, but I do expect companies to stand behind their products. I'm not a golddigger expecting a handout every time. I have always - always - purchased AppleCare warranty protection (extended) and I will buy it on other items also.

Anyway, that's my experience, explained in full.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Did you call their CEO? I did. They sent a letter and a personal assistant called me back.

I was essentially caught between Sony and warranty company. Sony wouldn't admit that the battery thing was their fault (even though they weren't paying for the repair) so the warranty company wouldn't cough up. No proof to back me up on my claim so I let it go and simply boycotted Sony. Permanently. Their loss.

As for calling the CEO? It's extremely hard to do that here with most companies over a certain size. I've mostly only ever had success in that when the parent company is American (in which instances I've called the American parent company and they've come down hard on their local people here).

[Kevin]

Yup, I had to get a little nasty with Apple once about a keyboard.

Two keys stopped working a month over my warranty. Just went dead. No spills or anything.

So I called them up, and they said it was not under warranty anymore. And that they don't do replacements on spills.

I told him again, it was no spill.

They made me drive to the nearest Apple rep and TRADE keyboards. They said they would send it there.

Of course they sent me the WRONG keyboard. So we had to do it all over again.

Some of the people Apple have working on the phones are idiots.

[Mastrap]

It's certainly easier to get results like that in the US than in the UK. Must be a cultural thing. My wife was totally surprised by the demands customers make in the US when she first started working in North America. She has since turned this into an advantage - our DVD player broke on Saturday. Yesterday she went to Future Shop and came back with a brand new upgraded model. They tried to tell her that they'd try and repair the old one. She said, look here's my extended warrantee that says you'll give me a new one should the original ever break down. They said, we don't have this model in stock. She said, tough luck for you, in that case I take the next model up.
They muttered, she explained their obligations to them, they gave her a new upgraded player.

She's one mean mother.

[Cody Dawg]

to your wife for not being a patsy, you know, Mastrap?



I've had my HP 7510 printer replaced four times in the last year. It's had persistent problems. No other model, just that one, that I actually need to use - no other model HP will work as well for what I do.

I keep meticulous notes about EVERYTHING. The date, the person I spoke to, the problem, and good files.

[ogun]

Management here has declared that Sony products in general are Major Security Risks unless whoever wants to bring them into the building can _prove_ that the Sony product in question is harmless. This includes Viaos, Sony-Ericson cell phones, and a whole bunch of other stuff. This especially includes any music CD made by any Sony company. Many people who used to carry in CDs are now bringing in nice shiny new (non-Sony!) music players, mostly iPods of one type or another. A lot of people are pissed at management. They're more pissed at Sony, though. The boss used to have a Viao laptop and used to haul it around with him wherever he went. He's got rid of it (eBay?) and got a PowerBook instead. We're getting rid of Sony computers in the office; we'll probably keep the monitors and the like, but the desktops and laptops will be outta here by the end of the month. Apple (and Dell, and HP, and Acer, etc...) should kiss whichever moron at Sony thought this rootkit stuff up, they've got a lot of sales because of it just from this place, and Sony ain't never gonna make another sale here, not even for monitors.

What got management's attention was the way that Sony management simply didn't care about the negative effects of their rootkit, especially the 'most people don't know what a rootkit is' line. This made management wonder what _else_ might be buried in various Sony products (such as, oh, _DVD burners_) that Sony management doesn't want us to worry our pretty little heads about.

[Wiskedjak]

Anyone know when v2.0 of Sony's malware will be released? Or, when the rest of the music industry learns from Sony's mistakes and develop less easily detectable malware?

[Gator Lager]

well microsoft is joining the fray. this should be good. two titans going head to head.
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,123543,00.asp
but then again, it may be just window dressing from microsoft

[mania]

Originally Posted by ogun

Management here

where is here? thats awesome.

[JoshuaZ]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

It's certainly easier to get results like that in the US than in the UK. Must be a cultural thing. My wife was totally surprised by the demands customers make in the US when she first started working in North America. She has since turned this into an advantage - our DVD player broke on Saturday. Yesterday she went to Future Shop and came back with a brand new upgraded model. They tried to tell her that they'd try and repair the old one. She said, look here's my extended warrantee that says you'll give me a new one should the original ever break down. They said, we don't have this model in stock. She said, tough luck for you, in that case I take the next model up.
They muttered, she explained their obligations to them, they gave her a new upgraded player.

She's one mean mother.

Thats how my Visor Handspring was upgraded to a Visor Edge... and later a Zire 71... Oh Best Buy, I love and hate you.

[Salty]

That's how I only plan on buying one iPod in the next couple of years yet having several versions . Best of all as a BB employee I pay half as much for extended coverage .

[His Dudeness]

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Then you must only buy Apple and Sony.

Sony makes trash, especially recently.

Yes they do. If you want quality stuff, look at Yamaha receivers. Top of the line.

[effgee]

In addition to the poo-storm Sony is already facing, the EFF published an open letter (better: ultimatum) to the C-level buttheads at Sony/BMG:

Originally Posted by EFF

"... You must be aware that the discovery of this software has shocked and angered your customers. ... But if you truly intend to undo the harm you have caused, your company should immediately and publicly commit to the following additional measures:

• Recall all CDs that contain the XCP and SunnComm MediaMax technology. The recall must include removing all infected CDs from store shelves as well as halting all online sales of the affected merchandise. We understand from a recent New York Times article that well over 2 million infected CDs with the XCP technology are in the marketplace and have yet to be sold.
• Remove from all current and future marketing materials statements like that on http://cp.sonybmg.com/xcp/english/updates.html that say the cloaking software "is not malicious and does not compromise security." ...

... We look forward to hearing that you are in the process of implementing these measures by 9:00am PST on Friday, November 18, 2005. ..."

link

And some folks at Sony seem to have realized that they won't be able to get out of this one unscathed - and thus are beginning to implement damage control measures:

Originally Posted by Sony/BMG

"November 16, 2005, To Our Valued Customers:
You may be aware of the recent attention given to the XCP content protection software included on some SONY BMG CDs. ... We share the concerns of consumers regarding these discs, and we are instituting a program that will allow consumers to exchange any CD with XCP software for the same CD without copy protection. We also have asked our retail partners to remove all unsold CDs with XCP software from their store shelves and inventory. ..."

link

I for one hope that disgruntled consumers will continue to stick it to Sony. I know I will - at least as far as purchasing their products is concerned.

[teknopimp]

Originally Posted by effgee

...I for one hope that disgruntled consumers will continue to stick it to Sony. I know I will - at least as far as purchasing their products is concerned.

just like we do with Apple, right?

[effgee]

Originally Posted by teknopimp

just like we do with Apple, right?

Huh?

[analogika]

Originally Posted by teknopimp

just like we do with Apple, right?

I have yet to hear of an Apple product that compromises the security of my data by intentionally installing a trojan.

Apple has occasional technical issues, same as every manufacturer on the planet, and on the whole, they handle them quite graciously.

[ogun]

Originally Posted by mania

where is here? thats awesome.

Palm Beach County, Florida. Seeing as how ol' Cody wants to pay me "negative attention" I'll not be getting more specific. I don't want any whacked-out nutbags showing up at the office. (Well, not any more than already work there, anyway...)