[effgee]

Ok, I've been back in the US for a few weeks now (just checking in to see how things are going :-p) and one thing drives me absolutely nuts: the volume of TV commercials. I'll be watching a show, setting the volume to a comfortable level, the fscking commercials come on and are suddenly considerably louder (*) than the show I was watching a second ago - wtf is this all about? Is this something that's always been around but I failed to notice in the past? I sure as hell didn't get a memo about this.

And most importantly - are there any devices available (new TV/ext. box/whatever) that can filter this sh*t?


(* - the commercials aren't really louder per se, it's more like someone cranked a particularly cheap equalizer up all the way. Mid-level and high-level frequencies are emphasized to a level where they begin to sound distorted)

[MM-o4]

we have the same problem in Australia.
I personally think after doing a couple of TV ads is that it comes down to compression.
In an audio studio you can spend alot of time tweaking 30 seconds of audio, EQ, effects and compression (more you compress audio the louder it can be) then you would ever budget
for in an 30 min tv show. It's the same camera, tape, mics etc.. of a tv show.
Mixing the audio for a 30 sec ad can take 3-4 hours. Imagine doing 30mins let alone the $$$.

My 2cents

MM

[Cubeoid]

They pay for it, so they can do it... it's to get the attention of people.

[stevesnj]

I thought it was my TV that was bad but I hear the same thing...im on Comcast Philadelphia.

[Cubeoid]

the most annoying are TV show previews.

[Kevin]

I run a limiter between my TV and speakers.

[Tesseract]

Commercials have always been like that.

Broadcasters do have volume-limiting devices. To "sneak" loud commercials through them, advertisers intentionally distort the audio leading to the "cheap equalizer" effect.

[effgee]

Originally Posted by MM-o4

we have the same problem in Australia.
I personally think after doing a couple of TV ads is that it comes down to compression. ...

Hmmm ... I'd take that as a valid explanation if it were the same everywhere and/or would always have been this way. But I do not remember ever noticing this anywhere in the US when I lived here a few years ago (five or so) and I definitely know this doesn't happen in any European country I've ever been to/watched TV in.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that your statement is untrue, it's just that I have never noticed this until I returned to the US a few weeks ago.

And they wonder why people would go to surprising lenghts to avoid watching commercials (e.g., downloading their favorite shows instead of watching them on the telly), hrmpht.

[effgee]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I run a limiter between my TV and speakers.

What is it? How does it work? Where can I get one? Does it "recognize" the commercial automatically? (In case it doesn't - keep it)

[rickey939]

That's why I DVR everything and then skip the commercials.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by effgee

What is it? How does it work? Where can I get one? Does it "recognize" the commercial automatically? (In case it doesn't - keep it)

]

It's like a compressor.. it evens out levels depending on the setting. You can get one .. not sure.. I made my own.

[OldManMac]

A few of my favorite quotes.

Television is a medium; it's neither rare nor well done. Ernie Kovacs said this in the 1950s, and it's even more applicable today.

I find television very educational. Whenever someone turns on the tv, I go into another room and read a good book. Groucho Marx, also from the 1950s, and more applicable today.

95% of television is for the mush minded, even adults, who've never gotten over having their pacifier taken away. Me; 2005.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by rickey939

That's why I DVR everything and then skip the commercials.

Same here. Even if I am available to watch a program while it's broadcasting live, I still record it and watch something else until it;s over and then I watch it.

[effgee]

Whaddayaknow? Those stupid fudge s ...

After Google'ing again for the same thing, and this time browsing a bit further than page two or three of the search results, it seems that obnoxiously loud commercials are a pretty common (and old) topic in the US (never experienced this anywhere else).

According to some sites, this problem actually dates back to the 1960s and the FCC seems to have received thousands upon thousands of complaints since then. From what I gathered from some obscure forum post, it looks like the FCC even introduced rules for the maximum output of TV programs but broadcasters reacted by "turning down" their regular programming and leaving commercials at the max levels, thus leaving everything as is - fsckers.

Reading what the FCC thinks about this problem is actually kinda humorous:

Originally Posted by FCC

"... Equipment That Helps ... The “Mute” button on TV remote controls is also useful to “blank” excessively loud audio. Manually controlling volume levels with the remote control remains the simplest approach to reducing excessive volume levels. ..."

No sh*t, Sherlock!

Also, there's actually devices available that claim to be able to filter out these intentional distortions and/or lower the volume of commercials ... here's two I stumbled across:

• TV Sound Regulator
• TV Volume Regulator

Judging solely from the look of the sites, the price of the product and the "tone of voice" of the textual content, I'd normally never buy from these companies (somehow too "QVC"/"Late night cutlery infomercial" for me).

Anyone try any of these volume limiters? Do they work reliably?

[effgee]

Originally Posted by KarlG

... 95% of television is for the mush minded, even adults, who've never gotten over having their pacifier taken away. Me; 2005.

Question: Why would you care what I suck on in my spare time?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by effgee

Also, there's actually devices available that claim to be able to filter out these intentional distortions and/or lower the volume of commercials ... here's two I stumbled across:

• TV Sound Regulator
• TV Volume Regulator

Judging solely from the look of the sites, the price of the product and the "tone of voice" of the textual content, I'd normally never buy from these companies (somehow too "QVC"/"Late night cutlery infomercial" for me).

Anyone try any of these volume limiters? Do they work reliably?

Both are limiters.. like I was talking about, and yes they should.

I find a schematic from a old "Electronics Now" magazine. I soldered and etched my own board.

Put it in a plastic VCR case.

[OldManMac]

I don't care what you watch on tv, but television is a problem, especially in the U. S. We spend more time watching tv (escaping reality) than any other nation, while our educational system goes down the toilet, our civility toward each other becomes less and less by the day, our political parties become almost indistinguishable from each other, we have the highest rate of incarcerated people of any nation on earth, and on and on. Our watercooler and general office chats are predominantly about inane topics, while our nation crumbles, because we don't want to face reality.

[Tesseract]

This was a thread about TV commercials being louder than the rest of the programming.

[OldManMac]

Good. Then put in your two cents and take it back in that direction.

[effgee]

Originally Posted by Kevin

... I find a schematic from a old "Electronics Now" magazine. I soldered and etched my own board. ...

Nerd.
</jealous>



I'd most likely give myself a rather odd looking tatoo while trying to etch a circuit board, so I'm going to have to leave this particular task to the "soldering-iron" crowd. Guess I'm going to look into this a bit further and eventually bite the sour apple of ordering one of them "technological wonders" (each of which will probably consist of $2 worth of parts).

[Footy]

Some TVs have a built in option that is supposed to equalize volume levels so there is consistent output between programs and commercials. I know the Sony I currenlty have has this option, it's called Steady Sound.

Don't watch a lot of TV but when I do it's recorded by the DVR so I skip the commercials as well.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by effgee

Nerd.
</jealous>



I'd most likely give myself a rather odd looking tatoo while trying to etch a circuit board, so I'm going to have to leave this particular task to the "soldering-iron" crowd.

I've given myself a few over the years. Get a small 15w iron. That is all you need for board work.

Guess I'm going to look into this a bit further and eventually bite the sour apple of ordering one of them "technological wonders" (each of which will probably consist of $2 worth of parts).

I think I payed maybe $20 tops for all the parts for mine. All found at Radio Shack.

If I had a decent electronics place around here I would be more into it.

I got into it originally because I wanted to make guitar effects pedals.

I am thinking about making a Theremin soon.


Here is a few good pages on such audio schematics.

http://www.one-electron.com/FC_ProAudio.html

[nredman]

yeah i hate that

[Doofy]

Channel 4 in the UK is notorious for this.
Doesn't bother me too much as I've got a TV which was designed for hotel rooms and has an inbuilt volume limiter.

For those needing external limiting, any old studio limiter will do. Something like the Behringer Autocom Pro will be fine.

[Kevin]

I have this one for my guitar

[badidea]

Originally Posted by effgee

...and I definitely know this doesn't happen in any European country I've ever been to/watched TV in.

You have never been to/watched TV in Germany???
Sorry, but annoying loud commercials are quite normal!

[ghporter]

I find the really obnoxious commercials, both in content and volume, are local commercials. An ad for Allstate Insurance or Nabisco crackers is usually not only professionally done, but its volume is pretty much the same as everything else I've been watching. But a "Texas Truck Month" ad from any one of a number of local Ford dealerships will not only be stupid and poorly produced, it will be LOUD as well.

My theory is that the loud commercials are feeds from the local station, and the station doesn't bother to adjust the ad's volume to match the network feed (or they crank the volume themselves). As I am a poor college student, I don't yet have a DVR, so I just hit the mute button as soon as the program cuts to a commercial.

Oh, and the WORST commercials are the ones that the client demands to be part of. Those "Hey folks, come see the deals I have for you!" type where "white shoe Bob" wants to sell you cars, furniture, appliances, etc. are horrible! There should be a law against this sort of crap. But it is the customers' money, so they get to call the shots... But I "blacklist" any firm that has commercials that yell at me or feature "white shoe Bob."

[ReggieX]

Commercials have sound?

(quick trigger finger on the mute button myself)

[nerd]

Originally Posted by Tesseract

Broadcasters do have volume-limiting devices. To "sneak" loud commercials through them, advertisers intentionally distort the audio leading to the "cheap equalizer" effect.

This is complete BS. I'm an engineer at a TV station. There is no such device in our chain nor the chain of the other 25 stations in corporation I work for.

Audio levels matching is a big pet peeve for me so I apologize for the rant now. This is also only my opinion, not my employers.

What all this comes down to is laziness in the operators that dub spots into servers, laziness to reach up to the audio slider to adjust the volume when things get loud and education.

The biggest education piece is teaching the operators that just because say the anchors voice runs at 0db to not run a commercial or music at the same level. Commercial, etc. have lots more going on so the perceived loudness it greater. The even bigger thing is simply having the operators listen. Just listen. If someone can hear this stuff at home then the operator can hear it at the station. Did I say just listen?

I can't stand watching some newscasts because of level problems. They go from package back to talent and you can't hear WTF they just said. You raise your volume and then they go to another package and your blown out of your chair.

Okay, rant is over.

Brad

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Oh, and the WORST commercials are the ones that the client demands to be part of. Those "Hey folks, come see the deals I have for you!" type where "white shoe Bob" wants to sell you cars, furniture, appliances, etc. are horrible! There should be a law against this sort of crap. But it is the customers' money, so they get to call the shots... But I "blacklist" any firm that has commercials that yell at me or feature "white shoe Bob."

Or the ones where they exploit their little 4 year old girl to be "cute."

"Come to my daddy's car store where he'll give you a good deal." (cue cute little girl "charm")

[Cubeoid]

I want to know more about this "white shoe Bob" character.

[macroy]

Originally Posted by KarlG

I don't care what you watch on tv, but television is a problem, especially in the U. S. We spend more time watching tv (escaping reality) than any other nation, while our educational system goes down the toilet, our civility toward each other becomes less and less by the day, our political parties become almost indistinguishable from each other, we have the highest rate of incarcerated people of any nation on earth, and on and on. Our watercooler and general office chats are predominantly about inane topics, while our nation crumbles, because we don't want to face reality.

You have a valid point about the "decline" of our social stauts - But I'm not sure TV is to blame. It's just entertainment.

Blame the parents that are using it to babysit their kids. Blaming TV is just misdirecting responsibility - IMO. There are plenty of folks who have TV.. but can still function "normally".

As for the loud commercials - I notice that it's not just commercials, as I channel flip, I also notice many stations are MUCH louders than others (i.e "E"). But don't most TV's have a "steady sound" option? I know it may take a second for two for it to kick in....

[effgee]

Originally Posted by badidea

You have never been to/watched TV in Germany??? Sorry, but annoying loud commercials are quite normal!

Uhm, I grew up (for the most part) in Germany and have lived there for the last 4 years. And while I watch very little TV, I did most certainly see my fair share of commercials while zapping through the channel listing (from the good 'ole ARD to the most obnoxious RTL2), on my € 2500 TV (which might or might not have a limiter built in, I have no clue) in the living room as well as the 10yr old, € 100 POS in the bed room - and trust me, the sound levels of commercials in Krautland are nothing like the ones I'm hearing here.

Originally Posted by nerd

... What all this comes down to is laziness in the operators ...

Same as with MM-o4's statement above - I don't doubt your knowledge of the subject matter but I find that to be an awfully, uhm ... "convenient" explanation. Down here in VA (Yee-haw!), this only occurs when commercials are being shown and when you flip to the TV Guide channel (*) - not the local news or any other program containing "live clips" that I've watched.

Maybe it's because I usually assume that people are driven by their worst instincts (e.g., greed) rather than stupidity, but this seems to be too much of a "coincidence" to me.




(* - Is it just my imagination or is the part of the screen on the TV Guide channel where they show the actual program schedule getting smaller and smaller? Looks even more like the "advertise-retarded-products-channel" with complimentary TV schedule than what I remembered. There's only two rows of program schedule left!?!!)

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I have this one for my guitar

Me, too. Mine is modded by Robert Keeley though

-t

[Kevin]

Why didn't you just do the mod yourself? There are schematics out there.

I did. Didn't pay crap cept for the parts. I also upraded all the electrolytic caps for tantalums. And most of the carbon resistors with metal film.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Why didn't you just do the mod yourself? There are schematics out there.

I did. Didn't pay crap cept for the parts. I also upraded all the electrolytic caps for tantalums. And most of the carbon resistors with metal film.

I'm not sure if I wouldn't mess it up. Not that much of a geek.

-t

[Paco500]

Fixed.

Originally Posted by KarlG

I don't care what you post in the lounge, but the lounge is a problem, especially in the U. S. We spend more time posting in the lounge (escaping reality) than any other nation, while our educational system goes down the toilet, our civility toward each other becomes less and less by the day, our political parties become almost indistinguishable from each other, we have the highest rate of incarcerated people of any nation on earth, and on and on. Our lounge posts are predominantly about inane topics, while our nation crumbles, because we don't want to face reality.

You have 4,638 posts here and you're going all high and mighty on people watching TV? Kettle? Pot calling.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by turtle777

I'm not sure if I wouldn't mess it up. Not that much of a geek.

-t

All you basically do is, heat the solder joint, use a solder sucker, put new part in hole, resolder.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Kevin

All you basically do is, heat the solder joint, use a solder sucker, put new part in hole, resolder.

Doesn't exactly sound idiotproof, but maybe I'll try with one of my other pedals. Where do you get the schematics from ? Google for it ?
Where do you buy the resistors and capacitors ? Any good online source ?

-t

[Dark Helmet]

Most TV's have a sound option to balance volume fluctuations.

[iREZ]

if its too loud...youre too old

[effgee]

Originally Posted by iREZ

if its too loud...youre too old

If it isn't, you're deaf.

[badidea]

Originally Posted by effgee

... and trust me, the sound levels of commercials in Krautland are nothing like the ones I'm hearing here.

Oh, I sure do trust you - the last time I was watching TV in Burgerland was about 15 years ago (while my last visit I had better things to do than watching TV)!

[Weezer]

[ShotgunEd]

I noticed this about two or three years ago. It was most obvious on some of the Sky TV channels, especially paramount. I'd be in my room, messing about on my iBook with paramount comedy in the background. Cue adverts and I'd have to change my trousers.

Its started to happen a little on channel 4 now as well, but nowhere near as bad as paramount.

The choice of adverts as well, every single one on daytime paramount is about low cost mortgages and loans. Here's a thought, get a freakin' job!

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ShotgunEd

Its started to happen a little on channel 4 now as well, but nowhere near as bad as paramount.

Dude, Channel 4 has been like that for at least 10 years.

Originally Posted by ShotgunEd

The choice of adverts as well, every single one on daytime paramount is about low cost mortgages and loans. Here's a thought, get a freakin' job!

Heh. Check Channel 5 in daytime. Loads of ads for really cool stuff, like motorised lay-z-boys which you can drive around the room.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by nerd

What all this comes down to is laziness in the operators that dub spots into servers, laziness to reach up to the audio slider to adjust the volume when things get loud and education.

The biggest education piece is teaching the operators that just because say the anchors voice runs at 0db to not run a commercial or music at the same level. Commercial, etc. have lots more going on so the perceived loudness it greater. The even bigger thing is simply having the operators listen. Just listen. If someone can hear this stuff at home then the operator can hear it at the station. Did I say just listen?

I can't stand watching some newscasts because of level problems. They go from package back to talent and you can't hear WTF they just said. You raise your volume and then they go to another package and your blown out of your chair.

I think what you're missing is the link between the two.

The people producing the commercial soundtracks (I know a couple) know FULL WELL (because it's obvious) that the TV engineers are generally poorly trained and, if at all, will adjust volume by the little meter flickering above the fader.

So they make their COMMERCIALS AS ****ING LOUD AS TECHNICALLY POSSIBLE, EXPLOITING THE FACT THAT PERCEIVED LOUDNESS HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH ACTUAL PEAK DECIBEL LEVEL (much like how forum post volume in numbers has nothing to do with post content in perceived value), knowing that the average knucklehead (no offense to you, sir) manning the fader will not care to listen but make sure the level doesn't exceed 0dB.

I saw a similar problem at the radio station I worked at, when they went digital, and journalists were suddenly expected to record, cut, and mix their own pieces, and tech supervision of running broadcast was relegated to former secretaries and assistants, while all the old-school radio techs and studio tape-snippers were fired... There are absolutely atrocious jumps in loudness (making passages of the all-spoken day programme barely intelligible), maladjusted compressors, etc., because those well capable of writing and/or administering were never trained to *listen*.

</counter-rant falling in step>

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Cubeoid

I want to know more about this "white shoe Bob" character.

A generic name for someone who is so obviously a bad used car salesman that he wears white shoes and a white belt out of season (yes, there's a season for such things: in the U.S. it's between Memorial Day and Labor Day), you can SEE that he needs a bath, and you can bet that whatever "deal" you get from him is going to cost you through the nose in the long run. Think "sleaze" or better yet, look it up: Bob's picture will be there.

My personal image of "Bob" is a guy called Ollie Fretter, an appliance seller in the Detrtoit area when I was growing up. My mom worked for his ad agency, and it seemed like everyone there cringed when it was time for Ollie's sales, because he wanted the junkiest newspaper layouts you could imaging, and he ALWAYS wanted to be the focus of all of his TV ads. They were the kind of ads that drove people away, but he wouldn't listen. And yes, he slicked his hair back and wore his own suits for the ads. Yuck.