[bobwoodward]

This issue keeps coming up, I've heard about it more than once. Today were notices on the bulletin board of a local coffee shop that confirmed it. The Apple management aggressively prevents gays from job growth into management and discriminates against them. It's like blatantly obvious that they're doing it. I wonder what can be done. It just isn't fair that some of the most talented tech workers get targeted and eliminated. You wouldn't think this would happen would you? The note is asking the gay crowd to boycott the Apple Cherry Creek store. I don't want it to happen but, frankly, it will if it isn't fixed somehow.

[BlueSky]

Maybe management is fed up with them redecorating the store every 20 goddamn minutes.

But seriously, I don't know what you're talking about.

[wallinbl]

Some unknown person left an anonymous note at a coffee shop and you say "that confirmed it"? You're nuts.

Regardless, the "most talented tech workers" aren't working retail.

[OldManMac]

Very few of the store workers are ever promoted to management; Apple goes outside for those.

[Ghoser777]

Are there any other sources of such issues?

[Rolling Bones]

Welcome aboard Bob. Great job on Watergate by the way.

Why can't everyone just get along...dammit!!!

[PurpleGiant]

Proof?

[Doofy]

Poof proof?

[bobwoodward]

I'm not an employee. Never was. Everything I know is from watching the place as a customer and hearing the complaints from a stream of dudes flouncing away looking for a job. Not just a single note. If it had been one then I would say, oh a disgruntled grunt. But that's not it. It's been smart guys that didn't deserve it. How do you PROVE something like that? The pattern has persisted. The fliers at the coffee shop claimed the managers aggressively remove gays and lesbians from staff postions.

[effgee]

Originally Posted by bobwoodward

This issue keeps coming up, ...

Where? Not here.

Originally Posted by bobwoodward

... I've heard about it more than once. ...

Really? I haven't.

Originally Posted by bobwoodward

Today were notices on the bulletin board of a local coffee shop that confirmed it.

Confirm what? How? Do you take every note you read on the bulletin board of that coffee shop as proof for something that's going on in your neighborhood? What's the name of that coffee shop? I gotta go there.

Originally Posted by bobwoodward

The Apple management aggressively prevents gays from job growth into management and discriminates against them.

If true, that is a terrible thing and must be stopped. How exactly does Apple discriminate against them?

Originally Posted by bobwoodward

It's like blatantly obvious that they're doing it.

Like, how is it blatantly obvious? Any signs in the store that say something like: "Gays will not be employed here", "If you're gay, don't even think about a promotion", "We won't ask and you better won't tell"??

Originally Posted by bobwoodward

I wonder what can be done.

You and me both. PM me and we can wonder together.

Originally Posted by bobwoodward

It just isn't fair that some of the most talented tech workers get targeted and eliminated.

I didn't know there was a connection between being gay and being a talented tech worker. It was also news to me that the most talented tech workers come from Cherry Creek - the things you learn every day - tsk, tsk, tsk.

Originally Posted by bobwoodward

You wouldn't think this would happen would you?

To be bluntly honest - I don't think it would. While two of my best buddies are about as gay as they come, I myself am "bendy" at best.

Originally Posted by bobwoodward

The note is asking the gay crowd to boycott the Apple Cherry Creek store.

Which note? Yours? The one in the coffee shop? I'll forward it to my gay buddies - they've been boycotting that store for years.

Originally Posted by bobwoodward

I don't want it to happen but, frankly, it will if it isn't fixed somehow.

Neither do I. Then again - do I really care all that much? I certainly do care about people who are being discriminated against - but about people who boycott a store? Nope - don't care much.

Why did you post this message here?

[Rev-O]

Sorry, but my daughter loves the giant breakfast food playground at the Cherry Creek Mall too much, and the only time she gets to go there when we stop by the Apple store. No boycott. Send a letter to the Aspen Grove Store requesting a similarly cool playground, and I will go to that store with more frequency.

[Salty]

At best buy I meet people all the time that think they should have gotten promoted to management instead of someone else. Add to that the often bitchy nature of some gay men, and this sort of note doesn't surprise me.

[chabig]

Originally Posted by Rev-O

Sorry, but my daughter loves the giant breakfast food playground at the Cherry Creek Mall too much, and the only time she gets to go there when we stop by the Apple store. No boycott. Send a letter to the Aspen Grove Store requesting a similarly cool playground, and I will go to that store with more frequency.

That won't help. I think they're managed by the same person. So let your daughter keep playing on the french toast.

[ghporter]

Sadly, I have to agree with Salty here. The reports from unhappy employees are hardly evidence-they are instead simply sour grapes. Have there been NO straight people passed over for management positions? Has every single gay employee been exactly perfect for any and all management jobs? Has the head manager of that store been the same person for the entire time it's been open?

Having been management myself, and having dealt with people who thought they should have been chosen for specific jobs when the weren't (both because I didn't select them and because others didn't select them), and the WORST candidates are the ones who bark the loudest. "I'm twice the manager Fred is, and he got the job instead of me!" That usually means that Fred doesn't bitch, slack, whine to other people about how hard things are for him, and busts his butt to get things done instead of making meaningless comparisons with his coworkers.

Sorry, bobwoodward, no sale here.

[Salty]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Sadly, I have to agree with Salty here.

How is that sad? I'm right. Not to mention I'm generally right... how is agreeing with me sad? Huh!?

[Ratm]

I wonder how many other message boards this fool has posted this slanders shite.

I heard MS does the same. Look at all the VPs at M$ HQ and not a single one of them has a lisp or have sensitive delicate wrists. How the f**k would you know that someone is gay or not. Is your gaydar that precise that you can tell gay from hetero? STFU.

[production_coordinator]

"Today were notices on the bulletin board of a local coffee shop that confirmed it."

[Rev-O]

Originally Posted by effgee

<snip>
Like, how is it blatantly obvious? Any signs in the store that say something like: "Gays will not be employed here", "If you're gay, don't even think about a promotion", "We won't ask and you better won't tell"??
<snip>

Now that I think of it, they did have that "Employment is Gaydar Enforced" sign hanging up...

[Agasthya]

That's funny. Here in St. Louis, the keyholders and managers are either women or gay.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Salty

How is that sad? I'm right. Not to mention I'm generally right... how is agreeing with me sad? Huh!?

Mostly it's sad that the whiners are the ones people hear, not the hard workers who actually miss the promotion by a whisker. And it's also sad because there really is discrimination against gays, and this sort of stupidity damages the efforts of people to end the real discrimination.

And I can't go agreeing with everyone. After all, this IS the Lounge, isn't it?

[Ratm]

Originally Posted by Salty

At best buy I meet people all the time that think they should have gotten promoted to management instead of someone else. Add to that the often bitchy nature of some gay men, and this sort of note doesn't surprise me.

It's amazing how you can characterizes a group of people like that. I heard similar about white chunky judgmental christian extremist complaining about the same thing. Must be the black man keepin' yall down. You guys should unite and tag team to take him down. Just a thought.

[effgee]

Originally Posted by Rev-O

Now that I think of it, they did have that "Employment is Gaydar Enforced" sign hanging up...

In that case ... let's take the store management out in the parking lot and stone them to death!

[Salty]

Originally Posted by Ratm

It's amazing how you can characterizes a group of people like that. I heard similar about white chunky judgmental christian extremist complaining about the same thing. Must be the black man keepin' yall down. You guys should unite and tag team to take him down. Just a thought.

Did you not read the words "OFTEN" and "SOME". Not all gay men are bitchy, of course. But have you never met a bitchy gay man? They're pretty tough to be around. Do I think all gay men are bitchy, no of course. However if you've every worked retail you'll know that most people in there are going to be at least somewhat bitchy.
At Best Buy we even have bitchy straight men.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Salty

At Best Buy we even have bitchy straight men.

And bitchy "undecideds".

[Ratm]

Originally Posted by Salty

Not all gay men are bitchy, of course. But have you never met a bitchy gay man?

lol I didn't realize sexual orientation modified the output of bitchiness. I've met people with bad attitudes, their sexual orientation is irrelevant. I think the reason why it bothers you a bit more is because they're gay.

[Cody Dawg]

I call this BS.

My local stores have a couple of overtly gay guys working there and they are both store managers. One of them is a good friend. One of my best friends is gay. (So good looking, too...my girlfriends would love him to be straight.)

+1 on this cheesy thread.

[JoshuaZ]

Dude, bulletin-boards are so 1990. I mean, if you want believe random stuff written by anyone, let me introduce you to my friend 'the internet.'

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Ratm

lol I didn't realize sexual orientation modified the output of bitchiness. I've met people with bad attitudes, their sexual orientation is irrelevant. I think the reason why it bothers you a bit more is because they're gay.

Why didn't you quote his whole post?

Originally Posted by Salty

Did you not read the words "OFTEN" and "SOME". Not all gay men are bitchy, of course. But have you never met a bitchy gay man? They're pretty tough to be around. Do I think all gay men are bitchy, no of course. However if you've every worked retail you'll know that most people in there are going to be at least somewhat bitchy.
At Best Buy we even have bitchy straight men.

See those bolded parts? Why did you omit those parts?

Oh, I know, you are flaming him. Good luck with that.

/reported]

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ

Dude, bulletin-boards are so 1990. I mean, if you want believe random stuff written by anyone, let me introduce you to my friend 'the internet.'

I've heard of this "internet" thing. Can I buy airline tickets on it?

[JoshuaZ]

Originally Posted by Railroader

I've heard of this "internet" thing. Can I buy airline tickets on it?

I don't think so. Its mostly used for porn and complaining about not getting any by 15 year old boys.

[Ratm]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Why didn't you quote his whole post?

See those bolded parts? Why did you omit those parts?

Oh, I know, you are flaming him. Good luck with that.

/reported]

You're the biggest loser. Reported! lol

He'd know if I was flaming him, trust me. I'm just reveling the nonsense of his post. It's f**king absurd.These little self reinforced ideas would disappear in a matter of seconds in the real world. Haven't you seen MTV's the real world? Where all these cute little white kids get a nice spoon full of reality and then start crying into the cameras. Idiots.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Ratm

You're the biggest loser. Reported! lol

He'd know if I was flaming him, trust me. I'm just reveling the nonsense of his post. It's f**king absurd.These little self reinforced ideas would disappear in a matter of seconds in the real world. Haven't you seen MTV's the real world? Where all these cute little white kids get a nice spoon full of reality and then start crying into the cameras. Idiots.

Why did you avoid my question?

His post didn't have any nonsense in it. Yours was a fabrication of the truth.

I will report any person who acts the way you do. Grow up.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ

I don't think so. Its mostly used for porn and complaining about not getting any by 15 year old boys.

Oh yes. I've definitely heard of it now.

[kikkoman]

George Bush lied to the American people about the Iraqi war. Notices on the bulliten board at the coffee shop proves it!

[Cody Dawg]

I just put a notice up at Starbucks for everyone to join MacNN.

And bring their finest cheddar.

[nredman]

Originally Posted by bobwoodward

This issue keeps coming up, I've heard about it more than once. Today were notices on the bulletin board of a local coffee shop that confirmed it. The Apple management aggressively prevents gays from job growth into management and discriminates against them. It's like blatantly obvious that they're doing it. I wonder what can be done. It just isn't fair that some of the most talented tech workers get targeted and eliminated. You wouldn't think this would happen would you? The note is asking the gay crowd to boycott the Apple Cherry Creek store. I don't want it to happen but, frankly, it will if it isn't fixed somehow.

well it sucks when they try to push the old rainbow colored imacs - i mean come on get with the times - joking people - if true its too bad.

[Volks]

Not to get off topic -

But is it really necessary for people to take an entire original post and reply to it sentance by sentance? Can't you reply in a dignified, intelligent manner?

But in any case, yeah discrimination is everywhere and it affects everyone. So if the gays don't like it, they can get to the back of the line. Personally, I don't believe in equal opportunity. If you run a business, you should be allowed to hire anyone you like for any reason. That's what freedom is about..

[turtle777]

If Apple really were against gays, their products would look like Dell

-t

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Volks

If you run a business, you should be allowed to hire anyone you like for any reason. That's what freedom is about..

Agree entirely. Forcing people to hire folks they don't want to is a very weird kind of social engineering. Almost fascistic if you try and artificially force people together. In a free society, people should be able to hire on any criteria they like (including breast size and skirt length).

The OP's post is damaging to his cause. Why? Because now I'm less likely to hire "sexually different" people on the grounds that if I don't promote them when they think they deserve it they'll start disparaging my business on an Internet forum.

Interesting (YMMV) sort of related story. A while back I knew a guy who owned a pretty major company around here. He put an ad out for a secretary. About 100 white girls and two black girls applied. After all the interviews he hired one of the black girls on the grounds that she was best for the job. First couple of weeks went OK. Then she started slacking off and doing her nails, phoning friends (etc.) when she should have been working.
So he fired her.
She then took him to industrial tribunal for unfair dismissal on the grounds of racism (despite the fact that he chose to employ her, a black girl, rather than any of the 100 white girls who applied for the job). She won and he got hit with something like a $10,000 fine.
Once bitten, twice shy - so it was a long, long time until he hired anyone else in a minority group.

Moral of the story: Whining may have consequences which you don't anticipate. So stop whining, shut yer mouth and get on with the job.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by Volks

Not to get off topic -

Then why say it?

But is it really necessary for people to take an entire original post and reply to it sentance by sentance?

Yes

Can't you reply in a dignified, intelligent manner?

No

But in any case, yeah discrimination is everywhere and it affects everyone.

Really?

So if the gays don't like it, they can get to the back of the line.

Are they less important than women, blacks, and latinos?

Personally, I don't believe in equal opportunity.

Good, because it doesn't exist.

If you run a business, you should be allowed to hire anyone you like for any reason.

You're going to get massacred for that one.

That's what freedom is about..

If you're conservative, it's about pushing morals; if you're liberal, it's about making people shut up when they don't agree with you.

[MacNStein]

Originally Posted by Ratm

lol I didn't realize sexual orientation modified the output of bitchiness.

It does.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Forcing people to hire folks they don't want to is a very weird kind of social engineering.

Was abolishing slavery social engineering? Was integrating the schools?

I say those things, but I largely agree with you. If you want to gather a group of people that hate blacks, you are free to do so. If you want to sell books and t-shirts that support your anti-black agenda, you should be free to do that as well. If you have a store that pushes your anti-black agenda, should you then be required to hire a black man to sell your stuff?

I realize that what I just said will offend someone. Let me say that I think that you are morally deficient if you do these things. However, the ability to do these things is part of freedom. People will do things that suck, and we largely have to let them, or we give up our freedom. I know that some people think that it's okay to take away certain freedoms, but it's a slippery slope, and someday someone else will start taking away a freedom you enjoy because they don't like it.

[Doofy]

Government needs to provide no more than a level playing field (i.e. be colour/gay blind) and then let everyone get on with it.

[Hawkeye_a]

Might be a stupid question....

how on earth does Applediscriminate homosexuals in the recruitment process ? do they advertize the positions for 'straight' people only ? and at interviews, how does the interviewer tell the difference between a homosexual and a straight person ? Seriously...... im not joking. is it the 'lisp' in the way gay men talk ? or is that a stereotype ? i'm curious as to how they 'filter' out gay people in the recruitment process. personally i cant tell the difference between gay men and straight men.... only in 'extreme' cases. and the 'lisp' is the only distinguishing factor that comes to mind.

Also, if people are so convinced that Apple is discriminating based on sexual preference, cant they sue Apple ?

Cheers

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by turtle777

If Apple really were against gays, there products would look like Dell

-t

funniest thing ive heard in a long while

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

is it the 'lisp' in the way gay men talk ? or is that a stereotype ?

Seriously, what is with that? It might be a stereotype but it seems reasonably accurate.
Why do a lot of gay men talk with lisps? Why? Why?

[effgee]

Originally Posted by Volks

Not to get off topic (1) - But is it really necessary for people to take an entire original post and reply to it sentance by sentance? (2) Can't you reply in a dignified, intelligent manner? (3)

But in any case, yeah discrimination is everywhere and it affects everyone. So if the gays don't like it, they can get to the back of the line. Personally, I don't believe in equal opportunity. If you run a business, you should be allowed to hire anyone you like for any reason. That's what freedom is about.. (4)

(1) Off what topic? That someone who's never participated here before posts a thread about how he/she found a flyer in a coffee shop and presents it as confirmation that a certain group of people is being discriminated against?

(2) And your problem with that being what? You would care about that in the first place ... why exactly?

(3) And the determination as to what's intelligent and dignified would be made by ... you? In that case, please accept my sincere apologies, I hadn't received that particular memo yet. In the future, I will of course forward you all my posts for approval (you prefer PM or email?) prior to me clicking that submit button. Will you be including some kind of a "the contents of this message have been approved by Volks" badge so that the other members know in advance whether or not a post is intelligent and dignified?

(4) Your opinion is your prerogative, of course. I do have one question, though - just to clarify the standards by which I will be authoring any and all future posts of mine: In your opinion, does that post of yours meet and/or exceed your benchmark for an "intelligent and dignified" contribution to this fabulous community? If so, what are the respective criteria?




P.S. I very much that hope this format of replying to a post is more acceptable to you. The last thing I intended with my original post was to irritate you (of all people). Apologies.

[effgee]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

It does.

How does Rob fit in that scheme, then?

[vinster]

The Apple Store Cherry Creek has all kinds working there. I was in there the other week and some guy with hair halfway down his back and a beer belly was assisting me.

I don't think they discriminate.

[olePigeon]

George Bush hates midgets.