[Salty]

How's this? I got into work today and walked by the punch clock, and I read written beside it, "Punching in with your jacket on is against company policy, it's theft and a dismissible offence". Now today I didn't punch in with my jacket on, but I have in the past, some days just because it worked out better since the clock is at the front of the store, the hub is at the back, and my dept is at the back. So instead of walking to the back, to the front, and back to the back, I walk in hit the clock, put my jacket away and take five steps to my dept.
So apparently my employer thinks I'm a thief. And I didn't even steal that iPod nano that I could have, or AirPort express base station that I could easily walk out with. Or one of many other things I could easily take without anyone knowing.
So yah I'm thinking I'm actually going to tell my boss that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw the first stone. And that theft is both a legal and moral term. If they want to look at the cornerstone of what would become Western morality, I can show them in the Bible how clocking in while still putting away your coat can not be said to be theft. As well time theft is not a legal offence either. So they should not be calling it theft. Unless they want me to start redefining what the work working means.

But yah. As well I brought my PowerBook in to work today and because I forgot to get it tagged I could have technically had it confiscated. I was like, this is retarded the thing is freakishly beat up, it's got missing keys, and there is several gigs worth of info on there that is mine. Good luck getting all that on there in a back room without anyone seeing. I was actually really tempted that if they did decide to confiscate it to then say, fine I quit and I'll be suing Best Buy for the full replacement value of my PowerBook .

[Chuckit]

How is walking in with a jacket on theft?

Anyway, just take your jacket off and carry it. It doesn't sound like that big a deal.

[Salty]

No cause you see apparently I shouldn't be hitting the back room while I'm on the clock. Even though that's something I need to do for work. Which frankly I think I should be being paid for. Because I'm not helping customers when I have my jacket on. Well quite frankly I have to walk through departments that aren't mine if I go back and forth between the time clock, generally simply flagging down someone from that dept for them instead of them doing it themselves because I don't know anything about their stuff.
As well I wonder if I can get BestBuy to give back that half hour they stole from me when I punched out and as per the request of my boss spent another half hour ringing an item through for a crazy customer.

[jersey]

if they give you a hard time point them towards this and tell them to get bent.

bunch of jokers at that place.

[CanadaRAM]

You just really needed to vent today, right?

Feel better now?

[stevesnj]

I vowed never to buy anything at Best Buy since they screwed me on a return...its been over 2 years since i've ben in a Best Buy...stay away from this horrible company!!!

[stevesnj]

I vowed never to buy anything at Best Buy since they screwed me on a return...its been over 2 years since i've ben in a Best Buy...stay away from this horrible company!!!

[stevesnj]

I vowed never to buy anything at Best Buy since they screwed me on a return...its been over 2 years since i've ben in a Best Buy...stay away from this horrible company!!!

[demograph68]

Originally Posted by jersey

if they give you a hard time point them towards this and tell them to get bent.

bunch of jokers at that place.

Daaaammmmn! :/

[jhogarty]

Ah this is what Labor Lawyers and the ACLU are for. Go get 'em Tiger.

[Teronzhul]

Best Buy is gayer than American Football.

[Salty]

I think tomorrow I'm going to find a manager before I open my dept and say
"I don't like being accused of being a thief."

And explain to them that as a Christian I would very much appreciate it if they did not chose to redefine what is and isn't wrong based on how much Best Buy can and can't screw me. Because I can point them to Old Testament passages that suggest that that is actually sin.

[Teronzhul]

As terrible as I'm sure your job is, if you value it I wouldn't suggest shoving a Bible in your managers face.

[Salty]

Hmm... I should bring my bible with me!

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Salty

Hmm... I should bring my bible with me!

Ya and place it in a pocket above your heart so when they shoot you it stops the bullet.

[Salty]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Ya and place it in a pocket above your heart so when they shoot you it stops the bullet.

In Canada we don't use guns. We use our words... words like hoser... and about... and of course the mighty eh.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Salty

In Canada we don't use guns. We use our words... words like hoser... and about... and of course the mighty eh.

Does anyone here actually say hoser? I don't think I have ever heard a non-american say it.

[wuzup101]

I would laugh so hard if someone pulled that bible crap on me. But then again, the law isn't written from the bible here in America... is it like that in Canada? Either way I don't want to step on any toes... you can believe in whatever you believe in (just so you know I'm not insulting your religion).

If best buy says that you have to remove your jacket before you punch in than you have to remove your jacket before you punch in. If they say that they aren't paying you to go to the back room and put your jacket away, then they aren't. It's company policy and it's YOUR CHOICE to work there. Frankly I wouldn't put up with that bull either, it makes no sense for you to walk back and forth. But, what I think doesn't mean jack, you work for best buy, not me. You want to work there... follow their policy or quit. Every buisness has rules.

BTW, it's not time theft, it's monitary. You're selling them 8 hrs of your time but only really giving them 7hrs and 50min (as an example). Would you like it if you went to the store and purchased a can of corn and when you got home you realized the contents of said can only amounted to half of what the can advertised.

[JoshuaZ]

Hmm... I would just be like 'whatever.' Then again, I did take a two hour lunch break today....

[wallinbl]

Do you remember how Rudy Guiliani started cleaning up the crime in New York? It wasn't with serious crimes like rape or murder, it was with small things like graffiti. Your store (or Best Buy in general) is probably having problems with employees slacking around a few minutes before and after their shifts. It may not be you doing it, but having worked retail, I will guarantee you that 50% of the employees are gaming the time clock. Let's say that Best Buy has 10,000 employees at $8/hr. If each employees games the clock for four minutes at the beginning of a shift and four minutes at the end of a shift, that totals eight minutes, which most time clock systems will round up to 1/4 of an hour - a payable increment. So, if each employee works 5 days per week and 50% of the employees are gaming the clock, you get an additional $50,000 per week (5,000 employees * $8/hr * .25 hours * 5 days) that Best Buy is paying for people to put away their jackets, take a leak, wash their hands, tie their shoes, etc. That's $2.6 million per year.

You may well not be their target, and if you feel that your actions are honest, then you should not feel that you are being accused of anything.

[Kevin]

I am glad I don't have to deal with time-clock. Heck, we don't even have time cards.

The trust system is used. Of course my Boss knows when I was at work.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Salty

I can show them in the Bible how clocking in while still putting away your coat can not be said to be theft.

I'm gonna take you up on that. Show us.

[zerostar]

I've been on salary since I was 16 so yeah pretty much fed in the a for the past however many years, lol. But really maybe it was a co-worker? we used to do this kind of crap all the time, mostly with email memos. The best part was this one kinda spastic guy would believe anything, like "no coffee before noon to ensure you have good breath for our clients" haha, well its funny to me..

If we ever SAW someone doing something against policy, or that somehow could be construed as such it would be all the more humorous to us.

[RAILhead]

Time theft is theft. It's all policy-based.

For example, the people that work for me have to be out in the plant to clock-in by 7:30am or I dock their pay to the next 1/4 hour. To do this, they must arrive at our main office early enough in the morning to drop off their cars, get into our company vehicles, drive to the plant, wait in the entrance lines, then drive to our plant office to clock-in. Point being, they get to work around 7:00am so they can clock-in at 7:30.

Do they get paid for that? Nope. Can I do that? Yup -- because I wrote a policy as conditional for employment and when they signed it, they agreed to it. It's gold. It cannot be fought.

So, Best Buy may have some policy that dictates what you're being told, so unless you want them to find a reason to fire your holier-than-thou arse, you'd better read-up on the Personnel Handbook and employment policies before making a complete tool of yourself.

[BasketofPuppies]

Originally Posted by jhogarty

Ah this is what Labor Lawyers and the ACLU are for. Go get 'em Tiger.

I don't think the American Civil Liberties Union would be helpful in Manitoba.

[Kevin]

I am going in today with nothing to do. They are going to pay me to surf the web till I get some artwork to do. My boss knows this. Doesn't care. As long as I get my work done on time, I can do pretty much what I want.

The person that had this job before me I guess was always late with the work. And even then it was half-assed. Not that that person was lazy I was told. Just didn't really know what she was doing.

They had to put her on a 8 job a day quota just to get their stuff in on time.

Last Friday I got 32 jobs done. Sometimes I take more time on things, sometimes I don't have to.

[Gankdawg]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Time theft is theft. It's all policy-based.

For example, the people that work for me have to be out in the plant to clock-in by 7:30am or I dock their pay to the next 1/4 hour. To do this, they must arrive at our main office early enough in the morning to drop off their cars, get into our company vehicles, drive to the plant, wait in the entrance lines, then drive to our plant office to clock-in. Point being, they get to work around 7:00am so they can clock-in at 7:30.

Do they get paid for that? Nope. Can I do that? Yup -- because I wrote a policy as conditional for employment and when they signed it, they agreed to it. It's gold. It cannot be fought.

So, Best Buy may have some policy that dictates what you're being told, so unless you want them to find a reason to fire your holier-than-thou arse, you'd better read-up on the Personnel Handbook and employment policies before making a complete tool of yourself.

Exactly. I can't understand why so many people think it's OK to clock in at their scheduled time (say 8am) and then go to the employee locker, take a shite, eat breakfast, etc. and then go to work. If you are scheduled at 8am, you are to be at your station at 8am. And if you were raised like me, you are there at least 10 minutes early anyway.

[tooki]

Why? Because even if it's not an activity that brings you income, those ARE activities that cost the employee something: their time. You are taking their time and not compensating them for it. (OK, so eating breakfast no. But time to go to the locker and whatnot? Come on.)

And any manager that is rationalizing stealing time from employees just because it's not "productive" time needs to also remember the negative effect on morale. If you treat people as though you value their time (which you should honestly do), you get better workers.

tooki

[zerostar]

All depends on the employee and work environment, when I worked at a large ad agency we were always THERE at 8:00 but not working till at least 8:40-9:00, we also regularly pulled 60-70hr weeks while we were all salary based employees, the bosses understood that.

[Randman]

How's the blog?

[rickey939]

ManOfSteal would be proud.®

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by tooki

Why? Because even if it's not an activity that brings you income, those ARE activities that cost the employee something: their time. You are taking their time and not compensating them for it. (OK, so eating breakfast no. But time to go to the locker and whatnot? Come on.)

And any manager that is rationalizing stealing time from employees just because it's not "productive" time needs to also remember the negative effect on morale. If you treat people as though you value their time (which you should honestly do), you get better workers.

tooki

The problem is, there will always be someone out there abusing it, or taking advantage of it.

Where I used to work, it used to be a 9-5 job. Even a payed lunch. But what started happening was, people came in at 9, and didn't even start working till about 10. People making their coffee, warming up their muffins, responding to their personal email etc.

So they changed it to 8-5 with a non-payed hour lunch.

It wasn't because the company didn't value the employees time. It was because alot of the employees didn't value the companies time.

What sucked was, I worked the night shift, and no matter what, we had to get done what the morning did not because the paper runs daily. So I'd have to stay really late sometimes because of this 9-10 do nothing time. Usually a 4-5 do nothing time at the end as well.

Of course they would blame anything not done on night shift. Until they started tallying up ads.

There are alot of people just looking at any way to take advantage of the "system"

[production_coordinator]

How did Best Buy screw you?

Originally Posted by Salty

And explain to them that as a Christian I would very much appreciate it if they did not chose to redefine what is and isn't wrong based on how much Best Buy can and can't screw me. Because I can point them to Old Testament passages that suggest that that is actually sin.

ugh... just what your manager wants to hear. You don't need to start quoting the scripture to make a point.

I worked for Best Buy one summer to make a little extra cash. They had clear reasons for everything they did. Not having your jacket on when you punch out, patting me down when I left the store... are rather common in retail. They do it because idiots out there that think it's OK to steal from the company. I also got "well, they ONLY pay me XYZ..." like that makes it OK for them to steal.

Also, YES, they could have taken your PowerBook. It's a CLEAR violation of company policy to take electronics into the store without them first being tagged. You wouldn't have had a legal leg to stand on. When I went in, I left my jacket in the car and walked in with only my clothing, keys and wallet. There was NO reason to bring anything else. It's not like I had an office, desk or locker.

[Kevin]

I think Salty was just trying to get attention.

esp after this thiread

http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lounge/276876/last-secrets-winning-headlines-revealed-while/

[driven]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

How is walking in with a jacket on theft?

Anyway, just take your jacket off and carry it. It doesn't sound like that big a deal.

If you have punched in and aren't technically on the floor ready to (help customers, install radio, stock shelves, clean toilets, <insert job function here>) then it's technically theft because you are not working while on the clock.

That said: He has a legitimate reason for punching in with his jacket on, more efficient.

I've fired folks for that before. (Not at best buy, but in a past job.) We had a hand-written timecard system at the time and I had employees come in, write down a time 30 minutes to 1 hour earlier than arrival. I'm not stupid, I know what time they got there and what time they logged into the system. I fired them immediately, as that *was* theft. (side note: This happened 5 times, and nobody ever seemed to take a hint!)

Would I have fired him for punching in with his jacket on? Hell no. I applaud him for efficiency. I'd fire the manager for being an ass about the business.

Then again, (echoing another post) Best Buy screwed me a few years ago so I rarely buy there any more. I currently shop Circuit City, Microcenter and Fry's when I'm not shopping online. I go into Best Buy sometimes, but rarely ever buy anything.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by tooki

Why? Because even if it's not an activity that brings you income, those ARE activities that cost the employee something: their time. You are taking their time and not compensating them for it. (OK, so eating breakfast no. But time to go to the locker and whatnot? Come on.)

And any manager that is rationalizing stealing time from employees just because it's not "productive" time needs to also remember the negative effect on morale. If you treat people as though you value their time (which you should honestly do), you get better workers.

tooki

Wrong. As an employer, it's not my job to compensate employees for their time under any circumstances outside of those I dictate upon hiring via word or documentation. I don't worry about their morale because they signed-up for the job and they agreed to work under my conditions.

If they don't like it, they can quit. If they cause problems, I fire them.

[IceEnclosure]

The idea of bringing your bible in to show them what's up is hysterical!!

Je-zus!

[Doofy]

Wait... I missed this yesterday.

Originally Posted by Salty

How's this? I got into work today and walked by the punch clock, and I read written beside it, "Punching in with your jacket on is against company policy, it's theft and a dismissible offence".

Originally Posted by thread title

Best Buy Accused Me of Stealing

How exactly did a sign, presumably there for all to see, suddenly become about you?

Did it actually say "Punching in with your jacket on is against company policy, it's theft and a dismissible offence, Salty" or are you getting a little paranoid/egotistical?

[ShotgunEd]

If I were your boss, and you showed me your bible, I'd say, once you clock in, this is your bible, and show you the company handbook.

But since I'm not your boss, down with BestBuy!!!!

[forkies]

Originally Posted by ShotgunEd

If I were your boss, and you showed me your bible, I'd say, once you clock in, this is your bible, and show you the company handbook.

nice!

[ReggieX]

Originally Posted by zerostar

All depends on the employee and work environment, when I worked at a large ad agency we were always THERE at 8:00 but not working till at least 8:40-9:00, we also regularly pulled 60-70hr weeks while we were all salary based employees, the bosses understood that.

And that 40 minutes "face time" is complete BS. A friend of mine used to work at a company where the owner pretty much demanded that everyone not leave til 6:00. It didn't mean that anyone was actually doing any work, they just had to be there. '

Screw that. The company pays me to work 9 to 5, and that's when I'll be there, working.

[production_coordinator]

Originally Posted by driven

That said: He has a legitimate reason for punching in with his jacket on, more efficient.

But he didn't have a legitimate reason... when Best Buy said "don't punch in while wearing a jacket" that's it... end of story. He could suggest to his boss that they not require it, but going on his own was simply foolish.

[Y3a]

All you need is a few photos of managers with coats on punching in or arriving LATE and send them to Corporate along with the actual posted sign and see what happens.


A mass quit near Christmas might help them to be more flexible too.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by ReggieX

And that 40 minutes "face time" is complete BS.

Some days you need to get working at 8 to get a project out, some days you don't, just they way it is in a daily-deadline oriented company. I don't see why its BS, it was the employees choice, we could have been working and out sooner... but our favorite bar wasn't hopping till 8 anyway

[Timo]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Wrong. As an employer, it's not my job to compensate employees for their time under any circumstances outside of those I dictate upon hiring via word or documentation. I don't worry about their morale because they signed-up for the job and they agreed to work under my conditions.

If they don't like it, they can quit. If they cause problems, I fire them.

No, you're wrong. Morale is real, and it is worth tending to its reality to keep the best employees. Your system, Taylorism, is all about obedience and rule-following, and your "dictation" is the kiss of death in e.g, my creative field. If I ran my office with your outlook I'd be its only employee, or its only employee of any value.

Oh, and Best Buy is terrible.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Wrong. As an employer, it's not my job to compensate employees for their time under any circumstances outside of those I dictate upon hiring via word or documentation. I don't worry about their morale because they signed-up for the job and they agreed to work under my conditions.

If they don't like it, they can quit. If they cause problems, I fire them.

Sucks to work for you.

Though my guess is the rate of pay must be high enough to compensate for 30 min they're losing each morning.

[ghporter]

Two points:

First, Salty, are you sure that the sign was directed at you? A lot of managers lack the leadership capacity to have a meeting and tell people "corporate thinks people are gaming the time clocks, so we have to make sure everyone has gone to his locker and gotten prepared to meet customers before they clock in." It's not like that's hard to say to a group of people, and it's not like it even sounds like the manager is blaming the workers, but it does require the manager to actually talk to a group of people...

If you must talk to your manager, point out that the sign sounds pretty heavy, that you and others feel that it accuses you of stealing company time, and that it makes you uncomfortable. Point out that this sort of thing can lead to a hostile work environment. The term "hostile work environment" is something that most managers should pick up on; it's a discrimination keyword.

Second point: If there seems to be a local problem with slacking on the clock, it's up to the manager to intervene with the transgressor, not to issue blanket edicts and alienate everyone. Unfortunately there are a lot of retail corporations that just don't "get it" in terms of managing employees. A friend works for a Large Fabric and Crafts Store chain, and apparently once a person is hired, it's almost impossible to fire them, in spite of state "conditions of employment" rules that allow a worker to be fired for no reason. This chain does not appear to believe in employee accountability in any form. Is it surprising that they have problems with the bottom line?

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Timo

No, you're wrong. Morale is real, and it is worth tending to its reality to keep the best employees. Your system, Taylorism, is all about obedience and rule-following, and your "dictation" is the kiss of death in e.g, my creative field. If I ran my office with your outlook I'd be its only employee, or its only employee of any value.

Oh, and Best Buy is terrible.

Yes, I'm wrong and our company has been doing business for over 30 years.



You work for us, you follow our rules. When you walk into the office, you our on our time, you are ours, and you do your job. If you do that, you are highly compensated. If you do not, you are terminated. Different companies do things differently, and no, it sounds like what you do probably wouldn't gel with what we do.

The point is this: it's up to the employer. If the employer says you have to do 3 cartwheels before clocking-in and you agree to that via accepting the job, failure to do 3 cartwheels can lead to disciplinary action up to and including termination.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Sucks to work for you.

Though my guess is the rate of pay must be high enough to compensate for 30 min they're losing each morning.

These girls only get $10 to $15 per hour with full benefits. But to be honest, I don't worry about that 30 minutes because they get overtime if they want it and because they knew the situation when they accepted the position.

[Timo]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Yes, I'm wrong and our company has been doing business for over 30 years.

With lots of thirty year employees, no doubt. -->

You work for us, you follow our rules. When you walk into the office, you our on our time, you are ours, and you do your job. If you do that, you are highly compensated. If you do not, you are terminated. Different companies do things differently, and no, it sounds like what you do probably wouldn't gel with what we do.

You're damned right I wouldn't "gel," but that's besides the point. Nobody's telling you what to do or how to run your venerable company. Rather, I'm telling you there's another angle to your outlook, but it doesn't sound like you are used to hearing other angles.

The point is this: it's up to the employer. If the employer says you have to do 3 cartwheels before clocking-in and you agree to that via accepting the job, failure to do 3 cartwheels can lead to disciplinary action up to and including termination.

Actually, that's not the point, that's your point. My point, echoing tooki's, is that morale is real and that in many cases one would be a fool to ignore this fact.

Or do you think morale in the e.g., armed forces is also irrelevant.