[Cody Dawg]

It's a Christmas tree, not a "holiday" tree, I agree.

Why do we have to waste our time defining a Christmas tree in this country?

It's getting pretty ridiculous.

[SSharon]

Why do I have to listen to Christmas music all month at my public university? Hopefully some good will result in this tree naming nonsense.

[Kevin]

CHRISTMAS BURRRRRRRRRNSS IT BUUUUUUUUURNS!!111

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

It's a Christmas tree, not a "holiday" tree, I agree.

Why do we have to waste our time defining a Christmas tree in this country?

It's getting pretty ridiculous.

Because we're celbrating "Holiday" not "Christmas" duh.

[nredman]

Christmas

[hayesk]

If you want to get really picky, it's a Pagan Tree.

[BlueSky]

Relax, no need for alarm, it's a moot issue. Soon enough it will commonly be referred to as el árbol de Navidad.

No estoy bromeando.

[SVass]

Let us celebrate as Jesus did, not as the pagans do. sam

[ghporter]

Yule came first. The Church coopted most of the "traditional Christmas items" like wreaths, an evergreen tree and the like to draw in Pagans (basically anyone who wasn't a Christian), mostly to consolidate control over a variety of populations.

While I don't say this lessens the spirituality of the season (scant though that is), I think it's important to recognize that our Western Traditional Holidays are really very, VERY old holidays that were pressed into service by the Church. I still put up a tree, but knowing its REAL significance increases its importance in my family, rather than diminishes it.

And Sam, if you look at what Christians have done to people over the years, you'll find that there was often very little in the way of remembering of Jesus at work in their minds or their hearts. Red hot pokers, anyone?

[KeriVit]

Pagan ritual. but even my most religious friends enjoy it.

YAY CHRISTMAS! I LOVE IT. I like the spirit, I love giving (what I want to give-frequently from my heart or handmade). I hate snow- but love it at Christmas.

maybe not this year as much as I am w/o my SO. But, we'll see.

regardless, ghporter- help me get through my fave holiday as I'm sure you have experienced the same.

[Cody Dawg]

And Sam, if you look at what Christians have done to people over the years, you'll find that there was often very little in the way of remembering of Jesus at work in their minds or their hearts.

Now, now. Don't go talking about Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson that way.



Seriously, I love Christmas. Even X-Mas.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by SVass

Let us celebrate as Jesus did, not as the pagans do. sam

Jesus didn't celebrate Christmas.

[Kevin]

I am sure he did at one time..

The Jews did celebrate birthdays.

[KeriVit]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I am sure he did at one time..

The Jews did celebrate birthdays.

Side note: PM if necessary. kevvy, your sig looks like many characters I draw. Did you create or get it someplace.?

[Kevin]

I got it on google's image search. just randomness. So if you have an image you did that looked JUST like that. It's probably it.

[Kevin]

[Doofy]

Our loony mayor had it officially renamed 'Winterfest" last year.

[KeriVit]

Originally Posted by Kevin

thx. jes wonderin. I should tat that.

[Kevin]

Yeah.. I loved the pic. I don't take credit for work I haven't done though.

I am glad I could find the original.

[- - e r i k - -]

Yuletree it is.

[tooki]

Let's call it the Christmahannukwanzaadan tree.

tooki

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by tooki

Let's call it the Christmahannukwanzaadan tree.

tooki

I could actually accept that one. Because it's one made from humor.

[zerostar]

Should be called a Christmas tree, we aren't renaming dradles holiday spiny-things are we. c'mon now.
You got a problem with christmas that is one thing, but to pretend it is not a Christmas tree that is just dumb.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by zerostar

Should be called a Christmas tree, we aren't renaming dradles holiday spiny-things are we. c'mon now.

Yeah..

Some people are insecure with their beliefs. Or lack of.

[moonmonkey]

What is all this holiday tree crap, they are Christmas tree's.
Why does everything have be so ****ing complicated in America.

[Cody Dawg]

True. Because they have to be too inclusive about EVERYTHING.

I'm surprised that they don't put some sort of a reference to an African click tribe in our annual Christmas/holiday/Kwanzaa/Hanukkah celebrations.

[Kevin]

I am just going to say it..

Kwanzaa is a joke.

[moonmonkey]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

True. Because they have to be too inclusive about EVERYTHING.

I'm surprised that they don't put some sort of a reference to an African click tribe in our annual Christmas/holiday/Kwanzaa/Hanukkah celebrations.

It is a bit silly, the rest of the world already think the US is screwed up enough, this doesn't improve things.

[ghporter]

A lot of political correctness comes from insecurity. My family isn't going to rename our tree because it represents more than just Christmas; we don't feel particularly threatened by other people's beliefs, and we have raised our son to be comfortable and secure in his own beliefs, even if those beliefs aren't particularly mainstream. I have to agree with George Carlin about a lot of political correctness idiocy; ugly is ugly, and Christmas is Christmas, whether you're Christian or not.

[Cody Dawg]

It is, and always will be, a Christmas tree.

[andi*pandi]

it's a christmas tree. They likely renamed it out of pressure to be inclusive etc, but it's quite silly. Anyone who would have been mad to have a christmas tree in their town square isn't going to be appeased by calling it a holiday tree.

I like my pagan roots in my religion. yay tree!

(hey, you got pagan Yule in my christmas! No! You got Christmas in my Yule!)

it's very early.

[ghporter]

It's an Austin tradition to burn a huge Yule log in Zilker Park; the park folks collect the larger tree parts from tree maintenance and they dig a huge pit and burn the stuff there. It's wonderful. We go just about every year just for that.

Look here to see more about the park, particularly their interesting Christmas Tree...

[wdlove]

Thank you Cody.

Yes, it is a Christmas Tree. The public outcry about this is working. Even here in Boston.

[Cody Dawg]

Hi WDLove!



ghporter...I remember when they built that huge bonfire and people died.

</shudder>

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Hi WDLove!



ghporter...I remember when they built that huge bonfire and people died.

</shudder>

That was at Texas A&M, just before Thanksgiving, 1999. It wasn't the fire; they weren't done setting it up. It was the huge pile of wooden poles that collapsed that killed those people.

No connection with Austin at all. NONE: Austin is the home of A&M's fiercest rival, The University of Texas.

[production_coordinator]

In the US, Christmas trees are fine in homes, but they have no place in public places or being purchased with public funds. We have a clear separation of church and state which prohibits such activities.

A "holiday tree" is religiously neutral... thus acceptable.

I'm talking about public places and public funds. You can do whatever you want in your own home and with your own money.

[Kevin]

I bet they had Xmas tress on the lawn when they wrote the Constitution.

But don't mind that!

[Cody Dawg]

You're off my list, production_coordinator.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ghporter

A lot of political correctness comes from insecurity.

I don't know about that. I would have said "interfering busybodies".
How it works here is that some (usually leftie) busybody renames something because they think it'll offend someone, when in fact it does nothing of the sort.
Our idiot mayor renamed Christmas last year so the minorities weren't offended. The minorities all came out and said "we aren't offended, what are you on about?".

[memento]

It's a freakin christmas tree. Nobody goes out and buys a "holiday tree"! PC has gone too far. If we had a jewish president and he wanted to put up a hannukah thingie with the candles, I wouldn't complain about that. We're diverse in this country. Let something be what it is.

Of all the stupid things to quibble over, this is insane.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by production_coordinator

In the US, Christmas trees are fine in homes, but they have no place in public places or being purchased with public funds. We have a clear separation of church and state which prohibits such activities.

A "holiday tree" is religiously neutral... thus acceptable.

I'm talking about public places and public funds. You can do whatever you want in your own home and with your own money.

That was what the council in the next town over said last year. So a muslim businessman bought the Christmas tree for the town square.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Doofy

I don't know about that. I would have said "interfering busybodies".
How it works here is that some (usually leftie) busybody renames something because they think it'll offend someone, when in fact it does nothing of the sort.
Our idiot mayor renamed Christmas last year so the minorities weren't offended. The minorities all came out and said "we aren't offended, what are you on about?".

The busybodies "think" something will offend other people because they are not secure enough to be able to say "Gee, I'm sorry this did offend you." Same thing, viewed from a different angle.

By the way, shouldn't it be "Idiot Mayor?" I mean it seems like a title to me!

[- - e r i k - -]

Yes, this is all about political correctness and none about religion (a christmastree isn't a religious tradition anyway).

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

(a christmastree isn't a religious tradition anyway).

Actually yes it is. It has been for along time.

[Cody Dawg]

They put a Christmas tree up in our church and our church sells them so it must be a religious tradition for some people, yes.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Actually yes it is. It has been for along time.

Wrong. Incorporating a non-religious tradition into your religious one doesn't automatically make it religious. It would have to have religious roots for that. Merely naming it christmastree doesn't make it religious

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Wrong. Incorporating a non-religious tradition into your religious one doesn't automatically make it religious. It would have to have religious roots for that. Merely naming it christmastree doesn't make it religious

Wrong.
 
5 entries found for tradition.
tra·di·tion    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (tr-dshn)
n.

1. The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication.
2.
a. A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage.
b. A set of such customs and usages viewed as a coherent body of precedents influencing the present: followed family tradition in dress and manners. See Synonyms at heritage.

3. A body of unwritten religious precepts.
4. A time-honored practice or set of such practices.
5. Law. Transfer of property to another.


It IS a tradition to put up a TREE during a RELIGIOUS holiday such as Christmas.

So yes, trees ARE a religious tradition.

Now you can say it didn't ORIGINALLY come from Christmas (Such things existed befor Christ)

But it is STILL a religious tradition to use said tree at Christmas.

ALSO

The fir tree has a long association with Christianity, it began in Germany almost a 1000 years ago when St Boniface, who converted the German people to Christianity, was said to have come across a group of pagans worshipping an oak tree. In anger, St Boniface is said to have cut down the oak tree and to his amazement a young fir tree sprung up from the roots of the oak tree. St Boniface took this as a sign of the Christian faith. But it was not until the 16th century that fir trees were brought indoors at Christmas time.

"It is from Germany that we today get many of our customs, songs, images of Santa, pine trees and European hand blow glass ornaments.

How these traditions traveled to England is interesting. Queen Victoria often visited relatives in Germany in the town of Coburg and while there she fell in love with a young Prince Albert. After they got married they returned to England to raise their family.

The tree that Price Albert provided his family was admired by all in England. This tree was decorated in the finest of hand blown glass ornaments. Since everyone liked the Queen they copied her Christmas customs including the Christmas tree and ornaments.

This use does not mean that our Christmas tree custom evolved solely from paganism, any more than did some of the present-day use of sighed in various religious rituals.

[- - e r i k - -]

Funny how you christians have trouble accepting that christmas is a mishmash of religious and non-religous traditions. You do not "own" christmas, it's a traditional secular holiday as well. (Semantics aside, it's still the same holiday for most of us).

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ghporter

The busybodies "think" something will offend other people because they are not secure enough to be able to say "Gee, I'm sorry this did offend you." Same thing, viewed from a different angle.

Yep. I see where you're coming from.

Originally Posted by ghporter

By the way, shouldn't it be "Idiot Mayor?" I mean it seems like a title to me!

Since he got voted out earlier this year, another has now taken the official title of "Idiot Mayor". I've no idea what the capitalisation protocol is for former idiot mayors.

[Cody Dawg]

e r i k
Funny how you christians have trouble accepting that christmas is a mishmash of religious and non-religous traditions. You do not "own" christmas, it's a traditional secular holiday as well. (Semantics aside, it's still the same holiday for most of us).

Funny how you can't stay on topic and when Kevin owns you you change the subject.





Oh, and just for good effect.